Apex Predator V2 - Tuned for 15.3

[WI5ARD]

Hi there, back to fm after 2 years out with the new iPad fmc version which you can't as yet upload tactics? if someone could post the instructions on a screenshot that would be great

[dinthead]

Hi there, back to fm after 2 years out with the new iPad fmc version which you can't as yet upload tactics if someone could post the instructions on a screenshot that would be great

I think they have already been posted in the thread somewhere.

[Messenjah1]

Could you make player filters for Nemesis pls?

[FC WWE]

fantastic tactic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bcn]

Any player suggestion for the Nemesis-DLF-role ?

[Mr U Rosler]

Any player suggestion for the Nemesis-DLF-role ?

What, team, league, year and budget?

[furq]

Hadn't played FM15 since the last update, decided to use Nemesis tactic with Cardiff City. With little money and bad start I won the Championship and lost the FA Cup final on penalties to Arsenal. About 10 games into the season proper, I decided to change my wide men to attacking midfielders left and right, as that was what I had a lot of in my squad. The Left one Attacking and the right, Support. W 31 D 8 L 7 f121 a49. Aron Gunnarsson was a revelation in the DLP role due to his long throws (but I could have played him anywhere)

First season in Premier League, sold lots of the chaff and a couple of my better player for big money. Brought in a few new players, Micah Richards and Winston Reid on frees, Héctor Moreno, Mousa Dembélé and Lucas Pratto being my main signings. Dembélé was superb in the BBM role, scoring lots of goals from outside the box and ended up being Player player of the year.Pratto was great in the DLF role 24 goals and 16 assists. Gunnarsson ended up being Footballer of the year ( I sold him to Man City for £30.5m at the end of the season) Long story short, I won the Premier League at my first attempt W 29 D 4 L 5 f 116 a 42. 6 points ahead of second placed Chelsea.

So wow did it work for me, though I did make that slight change with the wide men. Thanks, Rosler .

[Mr U Rosler]

After a few months off i'm back to do a Leeds United save which has been in the back of my mind for a while.

Using Nemesis unchanged finished 8th first season, started with non league reputation which wont have helped.

2nd season we're killing the league, 14 points clear with 12 games to go. 4-0 seems to be the most popular result. Just beat Man U at Old Trafford in FA cup as well.

Will take a look at some of the players you mentioned as i'll need to strenghten for the Prem although i believe Byram, Cook, Silvestri, Bellusci, Mowatt from the original squad will make it in the Prem.

[shirajzl]

FMC or full FM?

[Mr U Rosler]

FMC or full FM?

Full FM.

[shirajzl]

Full FM.

How come you've come back to it?

[Mr U Rosler]

How come you've come back to it?

Bit more control in certain areas, training in particular.

[furq]

3rd season having won the championship and then the Premier League in my first two seasons, I had a total collapse. Conceding lots of goals, only managing draws at home, of course I started tinkering, which just made things worse. No doubt Nemesis is a solid tactic, just something about the defensive side that just isn't quite right.

[gredawarha1979]

After a few months off i'm back to do a Leeds United save which has been in the back of my mind for a while.

Using Nemesis unchanged finished 8th first season, started with non league reputation which wont have helped.

2nd season we're killing the league, 14 points clear with 12 games to go. 4-0 seems to be the most popular result. Just beat Man U at Old Trafford in FA cup as well.

Will take a look at some of the players you mentioned as i'll need to strenghten for the Prem although i believe Byram, Cook, Silvestri, Bellusci, Mowatt from the original squad will make it in the Prem.

My first save was Leeds Utd. Byram, Silvestri and Bellusci where all good and can do it in the prem. Only moved on from them when I started to challenge for UEFA Cup/Champions League.

[kobrien1979]

Trying to get this working on FMC for the iPad, the link earlier in the thread to a .tac version of Nemesis seems to be dead now (does anyone have that file?)

Also, the instructions on page 2 seem to be for Apex, does anyone have the team & payer instructions for Nemesis so I can re-create it on the iPad?

Cheers!

[mog]

After a few months off i'm back to do a Leeds United save which has been in the back of my mind for a while.

Using Nemesis unchanged finished 8th first season, started with non league reputation which wont have helped.

2nd season we're killing the league, 14 points clear with 12 games to go. 4-0 seems to be the most popular result. Just beat Man U at Old Trafford in FA cup as well.

Will take a look at some of the players you mentioned as i'll need to strenghten for the Prem although i believe Byram, Cook, Silvestri, Bellusci, Mowatt from the original squad will make it in the Prem.

Bellusci is a red card waiting to happen - Don't miss out Charlie Taylor, and check out Zach Clough for DLF

[santy001]

Been using the formation for a while, as daft as it may sound the one issue that can arise is partly from it being extremely effective when it comes to defending.

The DLP will often drop deep if you've got the right kind of player for the job, meaning the defensive unit becomes a solid 5 man wall and depending on your fullback choice in my case you have 5 bruising powerhouses. As the defenders get better, and the team stronger on the whole more opposition attacks break down further out from goal. The attacks break down when the opposition has less players forward, instead of 5-10 yards outside the box, they're breaking down just inside the defensive half.

On the flip side when you try to counter, there is less space for runners to move into, without either going offside or there being too many of the opponents players back.

Watching the defensive side more and more particularly after being reduced to 10 men, I'd begun seeing that 3 defenders (cover man in the middle) with the DLP dropping back to make the 4th could be effective in defending and creating a little more space for opposition to push into, without actually doing any serious harm. After a match in tonights network game with a mate, I noticed after going down to 10 men against a 4-1-2-1-2 the formation was completely able to negate his tactic with 10 men just by having 3 central defenders.

I began to think on trying to see if this could work, essentially freeing up one of the 2 fullbacks to be utilised somewhere else. I've played a further 3 games in full on a single player save with Real Madrid, just to see how it goes since this was just a bit of idle thought after that game. Using the cover defender in the middle, and two central defenders with the set-up normally for the DCR. So with the midfield & attack exactly the same, but the 3 central defenders it leaves a spare man to try and utilise.

The question I'm left with though is, what to do with the spare man?

It seems like there is the potential for an utterly free-role player in the formation who just drifts and offers options but no real idea how to make use of this.

Just a disclaimer, this isn't a general thought on improving the tactic across the spectrum as I suspect deliberately weakening the defensive side would ruin lesser sides, but rather once you get your own team into a strong position it feels almost like to play counter attacking football the space needs to be made to lure the opposition in and commit men forward.

[Mr U Rosler]

Interesting, i have observed the same issue and come up with a different solution. Dropping the central midfielders into the DM strata which means the block is lower, your opponent is more committed to attacks and your MR/ML have acres of space to run into.

I use an anchor man and a roaming playmaker, the roaming playmaker is sensational from the DM position, i picked up Ross Barkley and he's been running games.

If you have a spare role i'd recommend trying the roaming playmaker, with 3 at the back either from DM or change the existing DLP.

If you try it from the DM position change your DLP to something else, you dont want 2 playmakers.

[santy001]

That's something I'll be looking at, I spent a bit of time last night playing around with the spare man being in the AM strata, but he was either impeding the movement of the BBM as a trequartista or attacking midfielder, or blocking off the wingers a bit (or forcing them narrow) as a raumdeuter on one of the flanks. Results were still coming, but rather as a product of the 9 other outfield players still being solid in the general approach of the nemesis formation.

I think I'll drop the 2 current midfielders to DM and leave the BBM through the centre, the spare man then becomes the RPM.

[Mr U Rosler]

Struggled to get any AM role to work consistently this year. They seem to perform better running from deep.

[santy001]

Indeed, I quickly stopped going down that route. Also really struggled to get the RPM to work, so I stopped that route and went back to the drawing board, and went back to a Juventus save as I think Juventus are probably the team perfectly built for the nemesis formation in this set-up (picked the save up at the start of the second season, after Nemesis finished the first 36 won, 2 drawn in the league):

GK: Buffon

RB: Caceras

DCR: Shawcross (sold Bonucci for £24m, replaced with Shawcross for £8m)

DCL: Chiellini

LB: Ogbonna

RM: Andre Ayew/Sterling

BBM: Pogba

DLP: Vidal

LM: Asamoah

AF: Sturridge

DLF: Tevez/Ozil

Still think 3 defenders is the way to go when your side is so strong, in network games with my mates its just a complete arms race so the normal squad rules, and normal levels of squad ability tend to quickly go out the window.

Rather than try to move away from the Nemesis tactic even further by changing roles too dramatically I've thought perhaps trying to have another player in the same set-up as is already in the formation. You warned against 2 DLP's so scrapped that, which left me looking at 2 BBM's, 2 DLF's or 2 AF's. Decided to go with BBM's since in most teams a good BBM has been the real driving forceso now there's two BBM's flanking the DLP and lining up like this:

GK: Buffon

DCR: Caceras

DC (cover): Chiellini

DCL: Shawcross

RM: Ayew/Sterling

BBM: Pogba

DLP: Romero

BBM: Vidal

LM: Asamoah

AF: Sturridge

DLF: Tevez/Ozil

14 games in so far, conceded 4 in that time and only 1 from open play (1 penalty, 2 from free kicks)

[Mr U Rosler]

Indeed, I quickly stopped going down that route. Also really struggled to get the RPM to work, so I stopped that route and went back to the drawing board, and went back to a Juventus save as I think Juventus are probably the team perfectly built for the nemesis formation in this set-up (picked the save up at the start of the second season, after Nemesis finished the first 36 won, 2 drawn in the league):

GK: Buffon

RB: Caceras

DCR: Shawcross (sold Bonucci for £24m, replaced with Shawcross for £8m)

DCL: Chiellini

LB: Ogbonna

RM: Andre Ayew/Sterling

BBM: Pogba

DLP: Vidal

LM: Asamoah

AF: Sturridge

DLF: Tevez/Ozil

Still think 3 defenders is the way to go when your side is so strong, in network games with my mates its just a complete arms race so the normal squad rules, and normal levels of squad ability tend to quickly go out the window.

Rather than try to move away from the Nemesis tactic even further by changing roles too dramatically I've thought perhaps trying to have another player in the same set-up as is already in the formation. You warned against 2 DLP's so scrapped that, which left me looking at 2 BBM's, 2 DLF's or 2 AF's. Decided to go with BBM's since in most teams a good BBM has been the real driving forceso now there's two BBM's flanking the DLP and lining up like this:

GK: Buffon

DCR: Caceras

DC (cover): Chiellini

DCL: Shawcross

RM: Ayew/Sterling

BBM: Pogba

DLP: Romero

BBM: Vidal

LM: Asamoah

AF: Sturridge

DLF: Tevez/Ozil

14 games in so far, conceded 4 in that time and only 1 from open play (1 penalty, 2 from free kicks)

So a straight up 352?

My only worry would be the 2 BBM's operating in the same space as the MR/ML, although they are on attack duty so i suppose they will be in advance of them a lot of the time?

The problem with using a team as strong as Juventus is it will mask shorfalls in the tactic, but if your winning and enjoying it so what!

If 3 at the back is really solid i'd be interested in looking at a classic 343 with 3 strikers, FM16 not too far away mind :-)

[santy001]

It's a strange situation as the network games aren't ever going to last that long so we never do a save with the intention of building a club up, its starting at the top and needing to bludgeon all.

AI Real Madrid/Chelsea don't spend £50m on a player you're trying to sign, just to stop you from signing him, sadly, mates do.

The two BBM's isn't quite proving ideal, possession can be retained in the middle a bit too long, and often only 1 of the 2 will make the bursting run into the box the other will sit back a bit more suggesting they're seemingly competing with each other more for space than with their wingers which is what I thought might happen as well.

That's pretty much the shape it takes when attacking, what I often find though is that neither BBM will exploit that space through the middle now whereas previously where ever the space was on the front line the BBM would tend to pop up. It's also very easy to see the side slip into a pattern where the two BBM's will just begin firing long range shots from outside the box, the sheer attacking power of Juventus does tend to overwhelm that eventually as Pogba/Vidal taking 20 shots between them from outside the box tends to be the sooner or later one of them will score type situation. So I've gone back to the drawing board because its winning, and still racking up goals but its not going to do what I need across the course of a season.

3-4-2 is seemingly all that is needed, the 3 defenders creates 2 enormous false openings that bait wingers/fullbacks further forward.

[Mr U Rosler]

Maybe the 343 is the way to go then, i'd be tempted by AVF - DLF - AVF thereby over loading the full backs or pulling centre backs out of central areas. Might run it in my Leeds save.

[santy001]

I'd definitely give it a try, after reading your last post I went 343 but with DLF - AF - DLF, first 2 games were an 11-2 win against Palermo and an 8-0 win against Atlanta. Been watching the games in full at this point to see how it plays so its slow in getting to the end of matches.

[Mr U Rosler]

Ok, thought i'd run it as a 343 as we discussed.

Finished 4th last year, walked the league with record number of goals scored.

Just the 80 goals in a season for my Advanced Forward

All in all a successful experiment and i'll stick with it i think.

[yipster1986]

Goodness, 80 goals?? That's insane!

I'm currently using the Nemesis tactic, no adjustments, in my Stockport save. Currently in season 2026-2027 and am leading the table in the Premier League. Thank you so much for the tactic.

Is it possible you could upload that 3-4-3 somewhere? It never hurts to have a tactic on stand-by if we get in a little slump.

[Mr U Rosler]

Hi,

Will put the details up later.

Probably the player instructions so those on ipads etc can copy them.

Only a few adjustments to original tactic required.

[santy001]

Impressive goalscoring return. I'd definitely be interesting in seeing the final tweaks to it as well. The counter attacking framework laid out is brilliant though with how 3 defenders seems to create 2 huge false openings down either flank, opposition tend to pile their players forward into that open space only to be brutally countered through down the middle as soon as you get the ball back.

[Mr U Rosler]

Yeah, its a bit scary when the opposition is passing around in front of your penalty box and you notice 3 players still upfront doing nothing defensively, but more often than not a big tackle goes in, a ball goes quickly to a deep lying forward who plays in your advanced forward who gets a CCC.

[paul7875]

sounds good

[yipster1986]

Are you looking for certain PPM's in your players?

I believe 'Gets into opposition area' isn't a bad one to have for your wide midfielders.

[Mr U Rosler]

Are you looking for certain PPM's in your players?

I believe 'Gets into opposition area' isn't a bad one to have for your wide midfielders.

I don't actively look for them, but that wouldn't be a bad one!

[Mr U Rosler]

OK,

Here's the details for 343 for those who want them.

Not much different but i'll put the team and players instructions up for those on tablets/ipad etc.

Team Instructions.

Player Instructions

Sweeper Keeper/Defend - Distribute to Full Backs, Take Short Kicks

Central Defender/Defend - Close Down Less, Pass it Shorter

Central Defender/Cover - Close Down Less, Pass it Shorter

Central Defender/Defend - Close Down Less, Pass it Shorter

Wide Midfield Right/Attack - Tackle Harder, Sit Narrower, Cut Inside With Ball, Close Down Much More

Wide Midfield Left/Attack - Tackle Harder, Sit Narrower, Cut Inside With Ball, Close Down Much More

Deep Lying Playmaker/Defend - More Direct Passes, Close Down Much More

Box to Box Midfielder/Support - Tackle Harder, Close Down Much More

Deep Lying Forward/Support - Tackle Harder, Close Down Much More

Advanced Forward/Attack - Tackle Harder, Close Down Much More

Deep Lying Forward/Support - Tackle Harder, Close Down Much More

Mentality - Counter

Team Shape - Structured

[yipster1986]

Thanks mate,

so far the Nemesis tactic is still going strong for me. It's the first season I'm using this tactic and currently sitting in 1st with both Manchester teams hot on my tail. They're unbelievable in my save, United won 6 and City 3 Premiership titles since the start of the game.

In any case, I might give this one a go next season!

[Svenc]

Yeah, its a bit scary when the opposition is passing around in front of your penalty box and you notice 3 players still upfront doing nothing defensively, but more often than not a big tackle goes in, a ball goes quickly to a deep lying forward who plays in your advanced forward who gets a CCC.

Not to spoil the fun, but that's the main reason for the return. The AI should adapt to a team that just keeps x players forward. But the way the AI operates, it takes the favoured formation of a manager edited into the db and visibly adjusts roles/duties accordingly to initial expectations and the run of play. The most popular formations in most leagues involve a defense consisting of back fours, and not every formation will involve a DM/anchor type of player. An underdog may go into a game with lots of defend duties, multiple players who always stay behind the ball, wide defenders too, and "play for the draw". But that can change, and it may throw everybody forward if going behind. A more favored opposition may push both wide defenders forward from the get-go. Both combined, that inevitably means those three forwards are lining up against two centre backs, and in particular if those forwards are of a certain standard and quality, presto.

(Happening in matches in between AI teams too on occasion, as some managers have edited the three centre forward formation into the db -- recently somebody uploaded a save where he came up against Chelski at Stamford B. and claimed the game was unwinnable. Chelski were managed by de Boer at that point, and every time his side would trail at HT, he would switch to 3 centre forwards accordingly to his data... the game wasn't unwinnable, but it is tough, no less if those front three consist of the likes of Hazard who doesn't even need space to complete a ton of dribblings :-P). It may involve some ME inherent issues with defending as well, such as prior to the final patch central areas could be easily overloaded with players, but in my opinion that's the main one.

The most bizarrely case involved a human player coming up against an AI in a two legged Cup tie. The first leg was won by the human with ease. The return leg he was absolutely thrashed 1-8, the statistics would tell him he had conceded close to 20 "clear cut chances", how could that happen? Simple: In the return leg the AI picked a three centre forward formation, and the human manager was employing a rather unusual wide makeshift back line consisting of a single CB and two wing backs (never utilized by any AI). The three centre forwards were wreaking havoc on this both from normal build-ups due to the space, and imagine your counter attack/clearance/interception scenario above but with only ONE (!) CB staying behind to monitor the "magic three". 20 seconds into the game and the tie was already back on. Don't think SI haven't taken notice of this.

[Mr U Rosler]

Not to spoil the fun, but that's the main reason for the return. The AI should adapt to a team that just keeps x players forward. But the way the AI operates, it takes the favoured formation of a manager edited into the db and visibly adjusts roles/duties accordingly to initial expectations and the run of play. The most popular formations in most leagues involve a defense consisting of back fours, and not every formation will involve a DM/anchor type of player. An underdog may go into a game with lots of defend duties, multiple players who always stay behind the ball, wide defenders too, and "play for the draw". But that can change, and it may throw everybody forward if going behind. A more favored opposition may push both wide defenders forward from the get-go. Both combined, that inevitably means those three forwards are lining up against two centre backs, and in particular if those forwards are of a certain standard and quality, presto.

(Happening in matches in between AI teams too on occasion, as some managers have edited the three centre forward formation into the db -- recently somebody uploaded a save where he came up against Chelski at Stamford B. and claimed the game was unwinnable. Chelski were managed by de Boer at that point, and every time his side would trail at HT, he would switch to 3 centre forwards accordingly to his data... the game wasn't unwinnable, but it is tough, no less if those front three consist of the likes of Hazard who doesn't even need space to complete a ton of dribblings :-P). It may involve some ME inherent issues with defending as well, such as prior to the final patch central areas could be easily overloaded with players, but in my opinion that's the main one.

The most bizarrely case involved a human player coming up against an AI in a two legged Cup tie. The first leg was won by the human with ease. The return leg he was absolutely thrashed 1-8, the statistics would tell him he had conceded close to 20 "clear cut chances", how could that happen? Simple: In the return leg the AI picked a three centre forward formation, and the human manager was employing a rather unusual wide makeshift back line consisting of a single CB and two wing backs (never utilized by any AI). The three centre forwards were wreaking havoc on this both from normal build-ups due to the space, and imagine your counter attack/clearance/interception scenario above but with only ONE (!) CB staying behind to monitor the "magic three". 20 seconds into the game and the tie was already back on. Don't think SI haven't taken notice of this.

Thanks for the post!

To be fair, the basic 442 was pretty potent already scoring 130+ league goals in many seasons and it would be pretty daft to suggest playing a 442 is some kind of exploit.

Having said that its the behaviour of the MR/ML which makes the tactic tick, change one of their player instructions and you lose 25 league goals. Its very finely tuned.

In reality its a 424 when in possession and a 442 when out of possession which works well.

But playing 3 upfront does seem to have added more goals, but not without risk, there are games where you get overrun, Liverpool have just turned me over 4-3 at home.

I'm glad SI are aware of a potential issue with 3 strikers and i hope they nerf it for FM16.

The Arms Race continues, i'll be ready for them

[Svenc]

To be fair, the basic 442 was pretty potent already scoring 130+ league goals in many seasons and it would be pretty daft to suggest playing a 442 is some kind of exploit.

Don't get me wrong, no qualms about how anybody is or would playing the game, that was merely a word of warning that not everything will necessarily always stay the same. That's where sudden inconsistency comes from usually, or how people suddenly feel like "playing an entirelly different game" even when all that was done was them switching patches. (What formation did Liverpool use, by the way? Sometimes AIs switch those during the game too. Did they ever go behind and felt forced to push men up?) I don't think you need "exploits" or anything if you have players in comparison to AI opponents anyway, heck, at the start of the game you can sit deep and hoof the ball to Messi with everbody staying behind and he can still win you points, hardly a "tactic", is it? Plus the AI is in need of an overhaul anyway, for instance, take a look at how elite managers in the game, such as Guardiola, has his Bayern side playing: possession football with Lewandowski being completely isolated from any kind of build-up, as the AI always seems to have a forward on attack duty, and in Guardiola's 4-1-4-1 formation that means isolating him from play (not with some holistic target man strategy in mind with players pushing up centrally to support immediately, but simply because the AI, any AI, employs a forward on attack duty by default, no matter the formation or "strategy", apparently).

But f'r instance, prior to the March patch you could turn Burnley first season into the team scoring the most in the EPL (90+ goals!) (with the caveat that they also conceded the most). Simply overloading and throwing players forward meant safe mid-table at the least with any team, no matter how poorly. This doesn't work anymore ever since... else talking strictly about the 3 CFWD formations, as I've had some bizarre experiences involving it as well, see above.

[Mr U Rosler]

This thread was based on final patch, but i made some changes shortly after moving away from a possession based fluid approach to counter/structured.

SI have done a good job, i've tried a number of approaches and the tactic in this thread (+ the 343 varient) is the only set up i'm happy with hence i only have 1 current thread.

Last year i probably had 10+ viable tactics at this point.

BTW Liverpool were changing tactics a lot, but the damage was done 1st half with a 442 funnily enough.

[CBP87]

hey mate, any instructions on set pieces for the 343, great work again

[PeeDub]

Sweeper Keeper/Defend - Distribute to Full Backs

Does he get confused?

[Mr U Rosler]

Good point!

[yipster1986]

Those 2 outer CD's step out to the sideline and receive the pass. Most of the time it aint a problem

[paul7875]

is there a download link for quickness

[Praha06]

Been using the 3-4-3 with Man Utd (Season 2024/25) in pre season and results have been 5-1, 5-1, 6-1 & 7-0.

The football is just insane!

[Mr U Rosler]

Just had 69 shots against stoke, dissapointed to only win 6-0.

Its still FM mind, managed to lose against Bristol City at home!

[CBP87]

Just had 69 shots against stoke, dissapointed to only win 6-0.

Its still FM mind, managed to lose against Bristol City at home!

hey mate what are your corner instructions? who do you have taking them or is it just auto

[Mr U Rosler]

Keep meaning to put them up.

I'm at work but think they are set to 'short', everyone in default position except middle CB who stays back. Using MR/ML to take corners.

Will confirm later.

[PeeDub]

I tried it one time at Conference level to try and break out of a bad losing streak and got pasted 7-1. Sooo, maybe there might be a degree of difficulty associated. I was "Accomplished" with the tactic, so I'm sure being fluid would have helped, but my central defenders were just completely overwhelmed at that level. Going to keep it in the bag and try it again at higher level with better players, but sticking with Nemesis for now. (BTW, I've dubbed the new one "Requiem" but it's anything but that.)

[CBP87]

Keep meaning to put them up.

I'm at work but think they are set to 'short', everyone in default position except middle CB who stays back. Using MR/ML to take corners.

Will confirm later.

cheers mate