Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

[RTHerringbone]

the ME patch and the database patch are two different things, and they can be released in two different moments.

They can't because they are intrinsically bundled together at an early stage.

Anyway, as has been commented multiple times, there is no set date for the update.

[Fabio2013]

They can't because they are intrinsically bundled together at an early stage.

well, good to know.

[Cougar2010]

I still have a little bit of confusion about this whole "dial down your mentality against teams who park the bus" piece of advice that I've heard bandied about quite a bit this year.

If we're supposed to dial down mentality to open up more space against underdog teams who put 11 behind the ball, then when IS the appropriate time to use "attacking" mentality? Surely it isn't when you're the underdog?

An attacking team mentality isn't a bad option when you are the underdog up against a team who leaves space at the back and one that I have used with success from time to time.

Its important not to focus on the term "attacking" but what it actually does in the FM ME. That is move the ball quickly forwards to the front line and aim to get a shot away with a minimal amount of passing around. If you are an underdog and you have two/three men in forward positions AML/ST/AMR then aiming to get the forward to them asap in the transition phase before your opponents can regain their defensive shape can reap benefits.

Other times it can be used successfully are when the opposition flood and out number you in midfield, you then aim to either bypass it completely or quickly pass through this area as you move forwards.

Another time might be when the opposition are pressing heavily without the ball and you look to move the ball around quickly and take advantage when the opposition are out of position.

[jujigatame]

An attacking team mentality isn't a bad option when you are the underdog up against a team who leaves space at the back and one that I have used with success from time to time.

I just find this totally counterintuitive. When you're a heavy underdog, you want to play with a high line and press your more talented opposition? Sounds incredibly dangerous.

Is higher (overload/attacking/control) really linked with more direct passing? I know raising mentality ups the tempo and plays with a higher line and less time wasting, but I'm not sure of all the effects.

[Jimbokav1971]

I think it's a reasonable question of when to use which tactic.

I think that it is something that a lot of people seem to struggle with, (I certainly did for example). part of it is simply in it's name, (attacking). By it's very name you would think that if you want to attack more, then this is the tactic to use, and this is where the confusion comes from.

I wouldn't dream now of just going to an attacking tactic unless something drastic had happened in the match. If we were still at 0-0 and I was looking for a winner against a team that I was expected to beat, then going "attacking" would not even cross my mind.

If I were to go behind in what was going to be a close game, (where maybe the result could be expected to go either way), then again, I wouldn't go "attacking" to try and get me back in to the game.

If we were at home and we had already made the breakthrough and led by 2 goals, then that might be the time I would be looking to really stick the knife in, (and go "attacking"), but even then that's not really my style, (nor suited to the style that I play).

You haver to look at what is actually said and try and align that with your own style of play.

Attacking.

This mentality is best employed for matches that you are favourites to win and expect to dominate possession in your opponents half.

It aims to exploit space in the final third by employing a fast tempo and direct, attacking passing supported by a defensive mentality aimed at recycling possession.

It focuses heavily on getting players forward and into space and allows them the creative freedom to express themselves.

Ok. There is quite a lot to digest in those 3 small lines.

Let's think about my situation now and each of you can think about your own situation, (if mine doesn't really work for you).

favourites to win. Ok. That's pretty basic. What I would say though is maybe it might better be described as "clear" favourites to win, Being "barely" favourite, (especially at home), doesn't make me feel like a "hot favourite", so maybe that's something to consider. It certainly reduced the number of times I might consider myself to be favourite if I class it as "clear favourite" instead.

expect to dominate possession. Again, that's pretty basic, (or is it?) Do you dominate possession if you have 51% of possession? The definition of dominate might be loosely described as "to control". If you have 51% possession, then you are more in control than the opposition, but are you dominating possession? No. Not in my book. So at what point does your control over possession become dominance? Well that's for you to work out individually.

in your opponents half. I think this bit is really key. have a little think about it for a few seconds. If you are playing against a team that is keeping 11 players behind the ball and maybe not defending too deeply, then unless you are completely dominant then how exactly are you going to dominate possession in their half. You might be dominating possession, but are you really doing so in their half? I think this is going to be something that is actually suited to a very small number of teams, (against an equally small number of opposition teams). Can your players win the ball back up high up the pitch, (a la Chelsea?), or do you actually defend deeper, (a la Arsenal).

aims to exploit space. Well if you are very dominant and they are defending with 11 players behind the ball, then where exactly is the space? If they are set up to defend and counter against you, then this is going to suit them and not me. I really don't like the sound of this. I think I will pass, (literally).

in the final third. If anything, this is the most vital hint yet. If the opposition are playing up high then there might be the potential to get in behind them and this might work. But if they are dropping deep and getting everywhere behind the ball, then where is this space in the final third? They have a bank of 5 and then a bank of 4 and everything is just so tight in there. There is no space. Why am I looking to exploit space when I know fine well that there isn't any.

fast tempo and direct. Fast tempo? But that's not going to work with my short delicate intricate passing. Direct? I don't want to go direct. Going direct is the last thing I want to do. I have talented, technical flair players. I want to pass them to death a little like Arsenal or Barca do. I don't want to go direct at all. If I go direct, won't that there over-ride some of my individual instructions and make them start to perform differently than I expect?

defensive mentality. Hang on. Defensive mentality? That's not what I want at all. I want a free-flowing pass and move style system with the full backs pushing on and really just the 2 centre-backs being left to cope as best they can. The last thing I want is a defensive mentality.

focuses heavily on getting players forward and into space. So we are getting players forward and into space, while playing a direct game from a defensive mentality base. Where is this space that keeps being mentioned? They are defending deep and we now have 8 players in their half. Both my centre-backs are slow and they have this whippet of a striker who is going to out-pace them on anything hoofed clear over the top. That is not what I want at all. Why am I doing this?

allows them the creative freedom to express themselves. No no no no no no no. I don't want them to do this. If I do that then they will just think they are all Gareth Bloody Bale and start shooting from everywhere. Nope. This is NOT what I want to do at all.

Now can any of you who actually use attacking on a regular basis without success actually tell me that you were aware of what it actually meant, (even if your interpretation is slightly different to mine)? It certainly doesn't do what I expected it to do. What it does is what it says on the tin. The only problem is, we don't read what's on the tin, we just read the name and assume we know what it means. We, (me included), were wrong.

Look guys. I am no expert and have never claimed to be. I will openly admit that I got this "attacking" instruction completely wrong when I started playing. I assumed a lot of stuff that simply is not true. You need to read more, think more, and on occasion press continue a little less.

[Cougar2010]

I just find this totally counterintuitive. When you're a heavy underdog, you want to play with a high line and press your more talented opposition? Sounds incredibly dangerous.

Yes, each mentality has downsides as well and you've correctly identified that more pressing, more closing down & playing wider in defence which would leave more space at the back are some you would encounter by using an attack mentality as the underdog.

This is part of the reason why there are no black & white answers, sometimes an attack mentality is the best option sometimes you would be better off with counter, it all depends on what is happening on the pitch.

As a manager you have to read the game and make the decision about which you think would work best in the given match.

Its also worth noting that taking a more defensive approach also has downsides - You give the opposition more time & space to find the killer passes and don't put them under any sort of pressure in possession.

[TitouCythe]

They can't because they are intrinsically bundled together at an early stage.

This tends to make people feel uncomfortable : we cannot know if the ME is being tested, or if it is ready and we are waiting for the data.

Also, why not have an intermediate ME patch ? Not that i am really unhappy with the current ME, but 2 things:

- as the delay between 2 ME version grows, so does the difference between the in house ME version, and what the players are experiencing, so the bug reports are more and more obsolete as the time goes.

- during these 2 months (and continuing), the devs have had no input from players on an up to date ME. Fixes and balancings are made with only the QA to test them, with predefined scenarii, nothing to do with the massive input and randomness given by players. So it increases the risks to miss some bugs and regressions, on a ME version which given the period of the year and the next FM iteration approaching, will certainly be the last one, so it is quite a big bet.

Actually, Feb/March ME version have always been good (as far as i noticed). But there is always a risk when you develop this kind of sensible software without all the input you could have.

Plus this thread is running after its tail, would'nt you be glad to hear about new problems ? This would be refreshing

[HUNT3R]

aims to exploit space in the final third.

I think this is a key phrase and shame on you for not adding a comment to it

Exploit the space in the final third. If the opponent is parking the bus, there is no space! You have to draw them out and pull them apart with clever movement. Playing at 100mph against a team that defensive, will just frustrate your own players.

[Jimbokav1971]

I think this is a key phrase and shame on you for not adding a comment to it

Exploit the space in the final third. If the opponent is parking the bus, there is no space! You have to draw them out and pull them apart with clever movement. Playing at 100mph against a team that defensive, will just frustrate your own players.

I am editing as I go. lol

[jujigatame]

To me the game's description of "attacking" seems entirely at odds with the way people on this board recommend it be used.

[buddiemirren]

I am editing as I go. lol

So I really want to only play attacking when the opposition leave space in behind( high defensive line), I'm odds-on favourite to win the match and I'm likely to control possession in their half. I think I'm even more confused. Any examples of teams who leave space in behind yet allow possession to be controlled/ dominated in their own half?

[HUNT3R]

So I really want to only play attacking when the opposition leave space in behind( high defensive line), I'm odds-on favourite to win the match and I'm likely to control possession in their half. I think I'm even more confused. Any examples of teams who leave space in behind yet allow possession to be controlled/ dominated in their own half?

No. The description says "space in the final third" not "space in behind". There's a difference.

[buddiemirren]

Oh is there, perhaps you'd like to expand on it then rather than just scoring points?

[RTHerringbone]

no team in the world leaves space in the final third, in fact they are looking to prevent it.

Every single team in the world that plays with a high defensive line leaves space in the final third, surely?

[HUNT3R]

and what does that mean? teams that play deep but wide, those who play only 2 men defence? no team in the world leaves space in the final third, in fact they are looking to prevent it. so againbst whome exactley is this mentality supposed to be used?

i think someone who has written all that stuff "on the tin" has a lot of questions to answer.

There will be more space between the lines (to give you an example) against teams that are more adventurous compared to a team that parks the bus. Defensive teams are narrow and compact (edit: and stand-off more). The more attacking teams aren't as compact as the defensive teams (edit: and press more), so there will be space somewhere between the lines.

[forameuss]

This tends to make people feel uncomfortable : we cannot know if the ME is being tested, or if it is ready and we are waiting for the data.

Also, why not have an intermediate ME patch ? Not that i am really unhappy with the current ME, but 2 things:

- as the delay between 2 ME version grows, so does the difference between the in house ME version, and what the players are experiencing, so the bug reports are more and more obsolete as the time goes.

- during these 2 months (and continuing), the devs have had no input from players on an up to date ME. Fixes and balancings are made with only the QA to test them, with predefined scenarii, nothing to do with the massive input and randomness given by players. So it increases the risks to miss some bugs and regressions, on a ME version which given the period of the year and the next FM iteration approaching, will certainly be the last one, so it is quite a big bet.

Actually, Feb/March ME version have always been good (as far as i noticed). But there is always a risk when you develop this kind of sensible software without all the input you could have.

Plus this thread is running after its tail, would'nt you be glad to hear about new problems ? This would be refreshing

So SI should release the update before it's ready because this topic is useless?

The structure they have is the one they always have, and I see no problems with it. They're hardly going to go updating the ME every couple of weeks - there would be chaos if that were to happen.

[buddiemirren]

Every single team in the world that plays with a high defensive line leaves space in the final third, surely?

*There will be more space between the lines (to give you an example) against teams that are more adventurous compared to a team that parks the bus. Defensive teams are narrow and compact (edit: and stand-off more). The more attacking teams aren't as compact as the defensive teams (edit: and press more), so there will be space somewhere between the lines.*

So Attacking is best utilised against teams who play a high defensive line, allow possession to be dominated in their own-half and are massive underdogs yet are more attacking? To re-phrase my original post, any examples of teams who may play like this?

[Jimbokav1971]

So Attacking is best utilised against teams who play a high defensive line, allow possession to be dominated in their own-half and are massive underdogs? To re-phrase my original post, any examples of teams who may play like this?

Any team managed by AVB.

[themadsheep2001]

and what does that mean? teams that play deep but wide, those who play only 2 men defence? no team in the world leaves space in the final third, in fact they are looking to prevent it. so againbst whome exactley is this mentality supposed to be used?

i think someone who has written all that stuff "on the tin" has a lot of questions to answer.

If you push up, you are relying on a high block defence. This inherently leaves space behind you for the counter.

[themadsheep2001]

I'd argue Bilbao and Chile under Bielsa would use attacking as prescribed by FM. Or classic Manchester United. I think many top teams in modern times are a bit more risk adverse and seek control instead.

[buddiemirren]

If you push up, you are relying on a high block defence. This inherently leaves space behind you for the counter.

No offence, honestly, but I used the term space behind and was quickly shot down that it was space in the final third. There's a difference apparently.

[HUNT3R]

No offence, honestly, but I used the term space behind and was quickly shot down that it was space in the final third. There's a difference apparently.

Space in the final third includes space behind, but it isn't limited to only that.

[buddiemirren]

Space in the final third includes space behind, but it isn't limited to only that.

So your saying that there is space in front as well as behind? So where is this space in front when the team are playing a high defensive line?

[HUNT3R]

So your saying that there is space in front as well as behind? So where is this space in front when the team are playing a high defensive line?

If we're talking specifically about a team with a high defensive line, then the space is behind them.

[Jimbokav1971]

budiemirren. I appreciate that you might just be in the mood for being an argumentative pain in the behind, but it really does little to help others.

If the opposition are defending deep, then there will be no space in behind but likely space between the lines.

If the opposition is defending deep and also using a holder in front of the back 4 then you might be best looking for space out wide.

If the opposition is defending higher then yes there will be space in behind.

If the opposition is very defensive and had 2 banks of 4 possibly with 9th in there too, then space of any sort will be limited.

You have to look at the opposition and work out where the space is likely to be. The whole point of this, (that you seem to be missing), is that "attack" is set up to utilise "space" in the "final third", and to put it bluntly, this space is not always there to take advantage of. If the space is not there and you have now askjed you players to play this more direct style and given them a creative freedom to literally do what they want, (despite the fact that it's not actually what you want at all), then what you might find is your attackers taking ridiculous shots from all over the shop because.... you have allowed them to do so by virtue of your instructions.

You are just being argumentative for the sake of it now.

[Jimbokav1971]

so, how many teams do it when they are playing a game when:

they arent favourites to win and do not expect to dominate posesion in opponents final third?

A team behind in the match playing away from home, not yet convinced that the game is lost?

[TitouCythe]

So SI should release the update before it's ready because this topic is useless?

The structure they have is the one they always have, and I see no problems with it. They're hardly going to go updating the ME every couple of weeks - there would be chaos if that were to happen.

I did not mean that. At all.

There is a difference between once every 2 weeks, and of course it would be counterproductive (no time to test internally, no time to sit and make deep developments), and releasing an update when the ME is in a judged acceptable state (like the ones we got between these 2 months. Even if some complain about how they are not good for them. Not me, i am very happy with it).

It is not me being complaining, but looking at some patterns in feedback threads, such as "how did the testers miss that bug?".

What i means was one ME update between new year's day and the final update, and people (minus the "we are not beta testers" ones), or some feedback like last year (sincerely, it was really great), and people would feel more involved, and know these are the tests, not the data update, that is causing the "delay" (not really a delay, but you certainly remarked, i am not a native speaker)

Also the last sentence was a joke, did'nt one of the mod say the same some pages ago with irony ? Why focusing on this one ? Speaking of which it seems to be a problem here, cultural differences, as we say. Latins are fond of pictures whereas saxons are said to be more factual.

And i agree, there has never been any problem with SI's system. It's just my "what if there were this time" (because this ME has so much potential, and i have quite been traumatized by a previous update, the one with headless chicken pressing defenders), and also "are my tactics really sound ? Or will it explode mid march?" (joke, if it's not sound, it better explode mid march, as a sign of a sane ME )

[Jimbokav1971]

indeed, but that is a specific situation. a reaction not a starting tactic.

but then the team who is up is also going to react and surely isn't going to play attacking anymore is it? more sensible for them would be to step back.

Well that's the choice isn't it. Do you settle for 1-0, stand off the opposition and possibly give them a foot-hold and a way back into the match? I would suggest that you are inviting trouble, (but you are completely correct in that it happens).

Ok. How about a team where their strength is in their attacking ability rather than their defensive nous.

To give you a real-life example.....

Forest Green Rovers play this way.

Reading to a lesser extent.

[Edit]

If the names of these mentalities were different, I wonder if it would make a difference.

Attacking could be named...... Fast, Direct, Creative freedom.

How many of you would still want to use it in the way that you are currently complaining it doesn't work?

[buddiemirren]

If we're talking specifically about a team with a high defensive line, then the space is behind them.

I'm honestly genuinely confused and I apologise if I come across as pedantic but according to the definition of Attacking given,

Attacking.

This mentality is best employed for matches that you are favourites to win and expect to dominate possession in your opponents half.

It aims to exploit space in the final third by employing a fast tempo and direct, attacking passing supported by a defensive mentality aimed at recycling possession.

It focuses heavily on getting players forward and into space and allows them the creative freedom to express themselves.

What opposition set-up is it best utilised for? A team that plays with a deep defensive line, leaving space in front, that allows possession to be dominated in their own half? The proverbial 'park the bus'? Which to be fair was highlighted earlier as not the right strategy or,

A team that plays with a high defensive line, leaving space behind, that allows possession to be dominated in their own half and are massive underdogs?

Clearly the second(?) but are there any teams that actually set-up this way? It seems counterintuitive but that is the set-up given by the definition is it not? I'm quite willing to accept that I'm just wrong here if someone can give me a full explanation of what is required of the optimal opposition tactics, mentality & stature to best utilise an Attacking strategy.

[Jimbokav1971]

I understand there are teams that do it but they are exceptions not the norm.

Yeah. I would say you are completely right. In my limited knowledge of football there are certainly not loads of teams that play this way.

I'm not sure what the significance of that is though. i don't see people on here saying that "overload" is a tactic that is not utilised by many teams in real life.

Nobody ever claimed that "Gung Ho" wasn't very common.

The issue isn't whether it's common or not. The issue is that it doesn't do what people expect it to do because people expect it to do something completely different.

[HUNT3R]

I'm honestly genuinely confused and I apologise if I come across as pedantic but according to the definition of Attacking given,

Attacking.

This mentality is best employed for matches that you are favourites to win and expect to dominate possession in your opponents half.

It aims to exploit space in the final third by employing a fast tempo and direct, attacking passing supported by a defensive mentality aimed at recycling possession.

It focuses heavily on getting players forward and into space and allows them the creative freedom to express themselves.

What opposition set-up is it best utilised for? A team that plays with a deep defensive line, leaving space in front, that allows possession to be dominated in their own half? The proverbial 'park the bus'? Which to be fair was highlighted earlier as not the right strategy or,

A team that plays with a high defensive line, leaving space behind, that allows possession to be dominated in their own half and are massive underdogs?

Clearly the second(?) but are there any teams that actually set-up this way? It seems counterintuitive but that is the set-up given by the definition is it not? I'm quite willing to accept that I'm just wrong here if someone can give me a full explanation of what is required of the optimal opposition tactics, mentality & stature to best utilise an Attacking strategy.

I'm not a tactical guru and maybe this topic should rather get its own thread in the Tactics Forum, because we're derailing the Feedback thread. Personally, I think you can employ an Attacking mentality against any team, whether they use a high, medium or low block. There will be space somewhere in the final third and as long as you set up to exploit that space, then you're good.

The exception here, for me, is against teams that are absolutely parking the bus, leaving zero space in the final third. That means no space behind. No space between the lines. Deep, narrow and compact. Against that, you'll struggle with an Attacking mentality.

[Cougar2010]

fwiw buddiemirren I actually disagree with much of that definition.

I don't think you'll find any of the good tacticians in the tactics forum who use "Attacking" as a default strategy.

There is a time & place for it but IMO it should never be your default strategy, personally I use it as an option during a match where I feel I may benefit from it.

[BiggusD]

"The Attack strategy is best utilised when you have no other choice but to boot it up to your strikers in the hope that something happens" ... maybe a better wording. Makes me wonder what Overload is there for...

The players are already nervously urgent in their attacking play when you maximize patience with the tools at your disposal; Counter + ALL the possession- and patience oriented shouts. Why on earth would anyone really want -more- urgent and triggerhappy players at any point in the game?

[buddiemirren]

fwiw buddiemirren I actually disagree with much of that definition.

I don't think you'll find any of the good tacticians in the tactics forum who use "Attacking" as a default strategy.

There is a time & place for it but IMO it should never be your default strategy, personally I use it as an option during a match where I feel I may benefit from it.

I agree, I mainly use Control with a higher tempo, much higher defensive line but have an Attack & Contain tactic for very specific usage. As I'm obsessed with possession I only use the Attack tactic as a last resort 1-0 down with 5 mins to go pump the ball into the box sort of thing. In my opinion it's a more direct wingers target-man tactic than an 'upping' of mental intent.

[themadsheep2001]

The last time used attack, was when I was recreating Bielsa's Chile. There is a place for it, but it's not as common a choice in real life as one might think, certainly towards the more elite teams.

[Sussex Hammer]

I've read your newer post too and I think I understand your line of thinking. Keep something in mind though. You might be tinkering with the tactic to find the "sweet spot", but it might be the sweet spot against that team with those players and tactics. A different team will have different weaknesses and tactics. Just something to consider, if you haven't already.

Oh of course yeah totally but also there should be a sweet spot for "your" team and tactics. That of course doesn't mean that you will win every game especially against better teams but it should give you that base, that starting point. I think half the problem is the lack of real help from your Assistant and the pointless star ratings. For example Kevin Nolan for me has 4.5 stars for AM, SS, AP, DLP, CM, Engache and Teraquista! Now I know what he is IRL but in the game it really is trial and error because of the lack of help. He clearly isn't half of those roles IRL but in the game? Who knows? Ok fine you can check stats and compare and read and assess etc but if you haven't got the time to trawl through all of that a bit of Assistant help would be appreciated, the Club is paying him enough!!! ;-)

[Sussex Hammer]

Just my tuppenyworth on the strategy discussion. Does anyone start and persist with "standard"? You have contain, defensive, counter, standard, control, attacking, overload. The thing that puts me off control is the patient build up as it IMO allows the defence to regroup creating this park the bus routine. So if you look as standard just as a starting strategy then you have three attacking extremes, control, attacking and overload. There seems to be a "normal" option missing or is this considered as standard? Probably a ludicrous question but I only ask as I don't think I have seen a tactic on these forums with standard as the chosen strategy.

[themadsheep2001]

Just my tuppenyworth on the strategy discussion. Does anyone start and persist with "standard"? You have contain, defensive, counter, standard, control, attacking, overload. The thing that puts me off control is the patient build up as it IMO allows the defence to regroup creating this park the bus routine. So if you look as standard just as a starting strategy then you have three attacking extremes, control, attacking and overload. There seems to be a "normal" option missing or is this considered as standard? Probably a ludicrous question but I only ask as I don't think I have seen a tactic on these forums with standard as the chosen strategy.

I do. my asymmetric 4-2-3-1 is standard. In fact I operate between control, standard and counter.

[RTHerringbone]

I do. my asymmetric 4-2-3-1 is standard. In fact I operate between control, standard and counter.

+1 for me. Generally in the Standard / Control area.

[Jimbokav1971]

Just my tuppenyworth on the strategy discussion. Does anyone start and persist with "standard"? You have contain, defensive, counter, standard, control, attacking, overload. The thing that puts me off control is the patient build up as it IMO allows the defence to regroup creating this park the bus routine. So if you look as standard just as a starting strategy then you have three attacking extremes, control, attacking and overload. There seems to be a "normal" option missing or is this considered as standard? Probably a ludicrous question but I only ask as I don't think I have seen a tactic on these forums with standard as the chosen strategy.

I start off on standard, (100% of club games now), although I often start with counter or even defensive with the NT.

I actually deem control as my attack, (with some tweaks).

"Attacking" itself is just so alien to the way that we are set up to play that I might as well not bother trying if that is what I am forced to resort to.

[Sussex Hammer]

Might be worth setting up a thread purely on philosophies and strategy. I'm not convinced "counter" does what it should do so it would be interesting to see what people do.

[Fax]

Might be worth setting up a thread purely on philosophies and strategy. I'm not convinced "counter" does what it should do so it would be interesting to see what people do.

The Simpsons did it! http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/382854-The-Mentality-Ladder-A-Practical-Framework-for-Understanding-Fluidity-and-Duty

[HUNT3R]

I do. my asymmetric 4-2-3-1 is standard. In fact I operate between control, standard and counter.

I also play an assymetrical 4-2-3-1 on Standard. If I'm not penetrating enough and there are gaps to exploit, I change to Control. If they are dominating me, I switch to my assymetrical 4-2-3-1 Counter strategy.

[HUNT3R]

Oh of course yeah totally but also there should be a sweet spot for "your" team and tactics. That of course doesn't mean that you will win every game especially against better teams but it should give you that base, that starting point. I think half the problem is the lack of real help from your Assistant and the pointless star ratings. For example Kevin Nolan for me has 4.5 stars for AM, SS, AP, DLP, CM, Engache and Teraquista! Now I know what he is IRL but in the game it really is trial and error because of the lack of help. He clearly isn't half of those roles IRL but in the game? Who knows? Ok fine you can check stats and compare and read and assess etc but if you haven't got the time to trawl through all of that a bit of Assistant help would be appreciated, the Club is paying him enough!!! ;-)

My 2 tactics are generally good against everyone. So I suppose I've hit that "sweet spot", if you can call it that. Just be aware of the tweaks you make in a game and why they are working. It's easy to fall into the trap of tailoring your tactics to beat one team, but the next game (using the tailored tactics) it "doesn't work" anymore.

[hitking100]

This will be a bit long, but i feel i owe it to the developers to set some things straight. I deleted Fm14 a lot of times with no intention to ever return to it. But a friend, who's also a loyal player, asked me to go to steam one more time and use his tactic, since he thought he was onto something. And i tried his tactic and got my behind handed to me every single time...like usual. I went onto my local teams forum, some play Fm14 as well...most don't like it since it's too difficult, while a select few seem to win the CL in the first year every single time. Someone asked one of the "elite" players : "Hey ! I want to play like Bayern Munich !" On the spot, the elite guy said : " Sure, here's how you should setup your team, use these shouts and no individual settings...that's Bayern. BTW, use the right players for the job or be crucified." Well, i felt like crucification and setup his tactic to start with Rupel Boom in Belgiums third division...surely those players would be right for the job I was asked not to relegate.

And i started the season looking forward to get hammered for the last time...and kept playing...with 7 games left to play i was 23 points in the lead and proclaimed champion of third division A. Won 27 Drew 4 Lost 3 (outshot the opposition at least 3-1 but they were "one of those days") Got into division 2, hired the necessary backup to survive and then found out i had NOT ONE SINGLE CM for my tactic. Nobody worth their weight would join me, so my only choice for this tactic to stay more or less the same was to up their position to ACM...which was very attacking with already one striker and two wingers...and mentality that never changed from "attack" the entire previous season. I would be leaking goals...and i was right. But still, i was better at attacking as well and with 4 games left i was just proclaimed champion again. Right now i've got 25 wins, 2 draw and 4 losses. Scored 99 and conceided 52. Again, i didn't deserve to lose those few matches...for example the last one they had 10 shots on goal, 4 on target...i had 40 shots, 18 on target...result 3-0 (it was a post, bar, superkeeper affair)

During these two season, i didn't suffer from the corner bug (just conceided my first corner right now) and i can only imagine how strong i will get once players actually want to come and play for me. So the fun is back for me and i won't rank FM14 as one of the worst ever again. (But it did take that one tactic to turn everything around...NEVER have i been this dominant on FM)

[Jimbokav1971]

So basically your reasoning on whether FM is good or not is by whether you win or not?

Yeah, you really owe it to the developers to set things straight there alright...

I was tempted to post something similar but I knew that's the way it would be greeted.

The problem isn't that hitking100 is using someone else's tactic. (Good luck to him). It's that he wasn't happy when he was losing, and although he is winning now, as soon as he needs to tweak his existing tactic, (whether it be because players have changed or he has become a big club and his opponents view him differently, he will be unable to do so with success in the long run, (because he doesn't actually know why he is successful). Now at this current moment in time this matters not at all, but further on down the line when he is losing, (rather than winning), it will again be a case of deleting the game and whinging and moaning that the game is "broked".

If there is a tactic that is as successful as this one is at all levels and with all teams, (and I have my doubts), then I think it is a big negative for the game.

This isn't aimed specifically at hitking100. I think he is just typical of a whole group of players who want to win at any cost and who don't enjoy the game unless they are winning.

Personally I can think of nothing worse.

[ANdré Alves]

This patch was the worse thing that ever happen to fm, the balls in the backs of defenders are too often, the ball passes trought the body of the defenders, a tatic it's just like having a expire date of 5 or 6 games, my teams always have to make 15 shoots to score a goal and the opponent just only 5 or 6, if my team are unmotivated the opposite team smash my team even if my team are much better.

I told the players to maintain the possessions and they kick the ball away, i'm tired of this fm14, and thinking very well if i will buy fm15, i play fm since 2005 and this is the worse fm ever.

I'm seeing the patch like a last chance and waiting for it....

[Maleven]

It's with great frustration that I say that I cannot play this game without quickly wondering how the hell SI could get the whole thing so damned wrong. It's just awful; you can put together one of the best attacking line-ups in the game and they play like morons suffering from chronic lethargy.

I can't be alone in finding that, in comparison to past games, attacking players, and everything about attacking (in open play at least) is just absolutely awful on this game. Can I? I mean, it's EVERYTHING. Finishing clear chances: dreadful. Long-range shooting: dreadful. Touch: dreadful. Dribbling: dreadful, with some of the best dribblers in the game REGULARLY getting the ball caught under their feet or just walking into obvious challenges. Decision making is poor too, and wide players getting beyond their man and staying there to put an unopposed ball in rather than slowing up is so rare I couldn't actually tell you whether it even happens. Attackers never seem to win physical or aerial challenges, EVERYTHING is weighted about 90% in favour of defenders.

Every year without fail I get so much enjoyment out of FM. Until this year. My results are as good as they've ever been but the game just pisses me off. If the match engine is going to be anything remotely like this next year I'll seriously just pick up FIFA Manager or something. I certainly won't be inclined to waste much time with FM after such a dismal effort this year.

[Spedding]

It's with great frustration that I say that I cannot play this game without quickly wondering how the hell SI could get the whole thing so damned wrong. It's just awful; you can put together one of the best attacking line-ups in the game and they play like morons suffering from chronic lethargy.

I can't be alone in finding that, in comparison to past games, attacking players, and everything about attacking (in open play at least) is just absolutely awful on this game. Can I? I mean, it's EVERYTHING. Finishing clear chances: dreadful. Long-range shooting: dreadful. Touch: dreadful. Dribbling: dreadful, with some of the best dribblers in the game REGULARLY getting the ball caught under their feet or just walking into obvious challenges. Decision making is poor too, and wide players getting beyond their man and staying there to put an unopposed ball in rather than slowing up is so rare I couldn't actually tell you whether it even happens. Attackers never seem to win physical or aerial challenges, EVERYTHING is weighted about 90% in favour of defenders.

Every year without fail I get so much enjoyment out of FM. Until this year. My results are as good as they've ever been but the game just pisses me off. If the match engine is going to be anything remotely like this next year I'll seriously just pick up FIFA Manager or something. I certainly won't be inclined to waste much time with FM after such a dismal effort this year.

Fifa manager is ended not being made anymore

[Sydney666]

Yes but FIFA Manager 2014 still exists as an alternative. FX Eleven is another new football sim that has come out which proves to be an alternative, but both games have major flaws - but are entertaining in other aspects. Also you can play FIFA 14 Manager Career mode as another alternative.

It is sad to me reading many comments from people here, as I only recently purchased FM2014 waiting for the data update to start my own career. I nearly died this year due to illness and I want to recover by putting my resources toward the game to make it better with feedback etc. So it is sad seeing many people unhappy with the game, but I hope people try to be less emotional when reporting issues as it does deter me from playing - so it might have that effect on many would be players too.

Last thing we want is to read that FM2014 is the last iteration of Football Manager. Every year I always have faith in SI to fix the match engine....