Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion

[Cleon]

I play the same way, but I want to use an advanced forward (Lacina Traore/Van Wolfswinkle) as my striker. RVW is ok as a DLF but doesn't get the job done consistently, so seems better suited to advanced forward, how would I get the best out of him?

If you play the same way as me, then by using an advance forward you'd be taking away what this tactic relies on and that is the space the striker makes by dropping deep and pulling the defence out of shape. This creates a gap for the AML/AMR to exploit.

So if you want to use an advance forward you need to make sure you get the ball to him and create space somehow. So to get the best out of him you'd have to play to your players strength.

[TRC]

I know, I just signed Lacina Traore and RVW on frees so and just seen them as a bargain. As a result I've messed up my season. Would having my wingers hold the ball up a bit help this?

[Cleon]

I know, I just signed Lacina Traore and RVW on frees so and just seen them as a bargain. As a result I've messed up my season. Would having my wingers hold the ball up a bit help this?

I'm not really familiar with the players you mention, so I'm not sure how you should play them in all honesty.

How would wingers holding the ball up help when playing an advance forward though? If they hold the ball up where is the support going to come from?

Surely you know what the strengths of the players you've just bought are? Just play to them. Remember to check PPM's as well.

[Snurre]

The trade off shouldn't be to bad if I can make the other MC tackle and take on the role of a DMC. I guess he'll be the key to it.

Before the Spurs save I was messing around with a defensive midfielder playing in the AMC slot. Rather than him been creative he was just an hassler and was forcing errors from the opposition. I really think this has potential too.

I'm itching to get started and try the ideas out but as usual I won't have time until tomorrow or Tuesday. It's always the same when I get an idea, real life gets in the way

It's a set up I'm familiar with though as I used it a lot on FM12 with my Santos side. However I always had 2 DMC's so never went with the destroyer screening the DLP. So hopefully it'll work out when I try it. It should make for a decent discussion too hopefully.

Cheers for the info about Roma, I haven't watched them play for a few years now so I had no idea they play something like this. I'll try and find so info on it and see if I can find some clips on youtube.

I can't document it but I seem to remember Cruyffs Barca side using a defensive midfielder high up the pitch to spoil the opposition build up and quickly get the ball back. I think Bakero was used for this.

[Cleon]

I can't document it but I seem to remember Cruyffs Barca side using a defensive midfielder high up the pitch to spoil the opposition build up and quickly get the ball back. I think Bakero was used for this.

Indeed he did, he was part of the Dream Team

[James9]

Great thread Cleon I always look forward to your input about how to play the game. I have a couple of questions of how this tactic would work with my current Arsenal side. My midfield three consist of Arteta, Cazorla and Fellani at the moment. Can I use your set up with my current midfield set up. Would you advice playing Cazorla in the Advance Playmaker role. He has all the right creativity and attacking attributes for the role but he seems a bit weak defensivley. what do you suggest I do with Cazorla to fit him in the system. I also have Wilshere who is very similar to Cazorla but he is a little better defensively.

[lam]

I think Huddlestone would work in the DM role as DLP purely from an attacking perspective. I've been looking at the role that this position deals with and it is kinda hard for it to get many key passes that result in shots on goal as normally there are three quarters of the players on the field infront of him, however, this position with an outstanding passer is great for distributing the ball down the flanks or to recycle effectively.

The only down side to this is that Huddlestone is simply shocking defensively. He lacks pace, agility and acceleration. He decision making is very poor too. Despite his "tries killer balls" PPM and "Tries long range passes" which historically have made him very popular. I think he lacks the decision making abilities to pull most of those things off.

I'm on the lookout for a slightly slower version of Sandro but with a passing stat of 15+ but also good decisions to sit in the whole, whilst I'll move Sandro up to the MCR position. Equally so, Sandro needs his passing to improve.

What is very evident this series is being able to see where your team are deficient. I can watch a game and really pick out what my players are missing.

I know Cleon mentioned it in the part about the FC, but this is really key, this position really changes how your team play like no other on the field. I'm also a little surprised that people haven't really commented on the fact that the FC is a Trequarista. It could be mistaken for a Targetman, but this position is key.

If you have players with pace then they will manage to get back into the box once they have laid off the ball, however be aware, that if you do not have a pacey striker then you might want to consider getting a creative player in there. In my second season I had picked up Llorente (11 pace) and he really struggled to get into the box in time for a cross or a pass from the flanks. I ended up having to change him to a DLF(S) which in turn lowered the amount of space available to the two IF's.

So, really study this position, it is key to how your team will play.

Regards

LAM

[Cleon]

Great thread Cleon I always look forward to your input about how to play the game. I have a couple of questions of how this tactic would work with my current Arsenal side. My midfield three consist of Arteta, Cazorla and Fellani at the moment. Can I use your set up with my current midfield set up. Would you advice playing Cazorla in the Advance Playmaker role. He has all the right creativity and attacking attributes for the role but he seems a bit weak defensivley. what do you suggest I do with Cazorla to fit him in the system. I also have Wilshere who is very similar to Cazorla but he is a little better defensively.

You could easily adapt it to fit Arsenal yeah, especially seeing as you have Fellani. Fellani could be the destroyer type person in the middle, he's actually the sort of player I'm looking at for what I have in mind for the way I want to play. Although I'll probs push Sandro into MC and use him.

Are you thinking along the lines of Arteta as the DMC who is set up as a DLP? With Cazorla the AP and Fellani BWM? That's what I'd experiment with and then just see how it plays out in a game and decide if its working or not. I see no reason why it shouldn't do.

[lam]

In regards to strategy, if im playing where i want fullbacks to support now and again but wanting the main attack to come from my two mc's and two strikers (2 dcs and 2 dms hold) should i be playing rigid?

Use the shouts "play wide" and "exploit centre". This will push your team wider and then pass through the middle.

[Cleon]

I think Huddlestone would work in the DM role as DLP purely from an attacking perspective. I've been looking at the role that this position deals with and it is kinda hard for it to get many key passes that result in shots on goal as normally there are three quarters of the players on the field infront of him, however, this position with an outstanding passer is great for distributing the ball down the flanks or to recycle effectively.

The only down side to this is that Huddlestone is simply shocking defensively. He lacks pace, agility and acceleration. He decision making is very poor too. Despite his "tries killer balls" PPM and "Tries long range passes" which historically have made him very popular. I think he lacks the decision making abilities to pull most of those things off.

I'm on the lookout for a slightly slower version of Sandro but with a passing stat of 15+ but also good decisions to sit in the whole, whilst I'll move Sandro up to the MCR position. Equally so, Sandro needs his passing to improve.

What is very evident this series is being able to see where your team are deficient. I can watch a game and really pick out what my players are missing.

I know Cleon mentioned it in the part about the FC, but this is really key, this position really changes how your team play like no other on the field. I'm also a little surprised that people haven't really commented on the fact that the FC is a Trequarista. It could be mistaken for a Targetman, but this position is key.

If you have players with pace then they will manage to get back into the box once they have laid off the ball, however be aware, that if you do not have a pacey striker then you might want to consider getting a creative player in there. In my second season I had picked up Llorente (11 pace) and he really struggled to get into the box in time for a cross or a pass from the flanks. I ended up having to change him to a DLF(S) which in turn lowered the amount of space available to the two IF's.

So, really study this position, it is key to how your team will play.

Regards

LAM

I'm toying with the idea of giving Dembele a game as the DMC (DLP) and see how he plays in the role. It's easy to get a player who is good at attacking so I think I could get like for like in an attacking sense for the AP role. But for the defensive side of the play I think Dembele could do the job from DMC as he is an all round player. The more I think about it in my head the more and more I can see him making the role his own. The only downside I can see with Dembele is his 13 creativity attribute. But I think for what I'm looking for its a very specific role so I'm not going to find someone who is good at everything. I guess I'll have to take an hit on 1 of the attributes and trade off for soemthing else.

[lam]

Well... I think, as discussed, creativity in the DM role in this tactic isn't so important. Though, his passing is a bit dodge for it isn't it? Or is the plan for him to drive forwards with the ball at his feet, committ defenders (midfielders) and then make simple passes into space?

If you start over, then consider ANDERSON from Man U. He should be available from the start and his driving runs have been spuring Everton on. I think he had 5 goals from three games at the start of season two..... like for like, of course!

[Cleon]

Well... I think, as discussed, creativity in the DM role in this tactic isn't so important. Though, his passing is a bit dodge for it isn't it? Or is the plan for him to drive forwards with the ball at his feet, committ defenders (midfielders) and then make simple passes into space?

If you start over, then consider ANDERSON from Man U. He should be available from the start and his driving runs have been spuring Everton on. I think he had 5 goals from three games at the start of season two..... like for like, of course!

He has 14 for passing on my game which isn't the best. But I need to trade off something or I'm never going to find the correct sort of player. I'm not sure I'd play him there all the time though. My thinking is I'd use Dembele as the DMC when it was a game where I wanted to keep possession and just someone to do the simpe stuff. When I needed to unlock a defence or play quicker balls to the wings for the wide players to get between the fullback and DC I'd need someone who was just good at passing and had the attributes to pull of the quick more direct kind of balls.

This role is going to end up like my striker situation, whoever you play in the role will bring something different and add another dimension to the side. I think I can have a lot of fun with the flexibility in this tactic. Imagine playing Defoe as the striker and having the playmaker do deep crosses into his path for him to run onto. Great for stretching defences and breaking down the sides that park the bus.

Someone like Dembele would suit a more patient build up style due to his low passing/creativity and when you just want someone to be a simple passing outlet and not much else.

[llama3]

top thread!

[lam]

The crosses you refer to, are they coming from the DM or the CMR? Can you get a DM wide enough to make those kinda crosses? I know it was very effective with Defoe when I had the FB's crossing early..... but it does need to be a pacey man or at least one with decent pace and bags of anticipation.

I know it was only pre-season and I did sell Huddlestone the following game, but I played him in the DM role and manually changed his passing to the highest mixed..... it seemed to work well, but it was pre-season against some Chinese sides........

[James9]

You could easily adapt it to fit Arsenal yeah, especially seeing as you have Fellani. Fellani could be the destroyer type person in the middle, he's actually the sort of player I'm looking at for what I have in mind for the way I want to play. Although I'll probs push Sandro into MC and use him.

Are you thinking along the lines of Arteta as the DMC who is set up as a DLP? With Cazorla the AP and Fellani BWM? That's what I'd experiment with and then just see how it plays out in a game and decide if its working or not. I see no reason why it shouldn't do.

Cleon that is exactly how I am thinking but what role and duty would you give Arteta and Fellani. Also do you think Podolski would make a good inside forward on the left side. He is left footed so would this affect how efficient he would be when he cuts inside. My other option would be to play Oxlade Chamberlain as inside forward on the left side or by Shurlle (check spelling) I think he plays for Leverkusen in Germany.

[llama3]

Possiblity for you James:

DM - DLP - D - Arteta

MRC - AP - A - Cazorla

MLC - BWM - S - Fellaini (Diaby and Wilshere could concievably do this role too, Coquelin too)

or swap the duties around:

DM - DLP - S - Arteta

MRC - AP - A - Cazorla

MLC - BWM - D - Fellaini

[ashlfcowen]

You wouldn't believe the amount this thread has helped me Cleon, truly you are an inspiration to this forum. You have opened my eyesight to many things, questions I never wanted to ask. Thank you.

My question to you is; you clearly state Bale is your main attacking threat, did he end up as your top scorer?

[wwfan]

Pah! Call yourself a tactical mod! No bloody effort at all!

[Bluemagic21]

Another 5star thread as usual. I was one of those who use to think countering was more of a negative approach. I couldn't have been more wrong!

[Cleon]

Possiblity for you James:

DM - DLP - D - Arteta

MRC - AP - A - Cazorla

MLC - BWM - S - Fellaini (Diaby and Wilshere could concievably do this role too, Coquelin too)

or swap the duties around:

DM - DLP - S - Arteta

MRC - AP - A - Cazorla

MLC - BWM - D - Fellaini

That would have been my advice that I gave James too. I'd also apply the same logic as I mentioned in the midfield section of the thread with getting the DMC to move into midfield by giving him a support role when you aren't faced with a AMC or if the AMC is really weak.

You wouldn't believe the amount this thread has helped me Cleon, truly you are an inspiration to this forum. You have opened my eyesight to many things, questions I never wanted to ask. Thank you.

My question to you is; you clearly state Bale is your main attacking threat, did he end up as your top scorer?

He did yeah. He got 30 goals I think it was and the closest one to him was Adebayor with 23+ I think.

Pah! Call yourself a tactical mod! No bloody effort at all!

Please don't close the thread, I promise I'll put more effort in and add detail

[Cleon]

The crosses you refer to, are they coming from the DM or the CMR? Can you get a DM wide enough to make those kinda crosses? I know it was very effective with Defoe when I had the FB's crossing early..... but it does need to be a pacey man or at least one with decent pace and bags of anticipation.

I know it was only pre-season and I did sell Huddlestone the following game, but I played him in the DM role and manually changed his passing to the highest mixed..... it seemed to work well, but it was pre-season against some Chinese sides........

I think the DMC could do the types of crosses if I get someone who is capable of spotting the pass. He should drift from side to side but at the same time not go wide enough to lose the shape of the side. So I think with a little messing around with his passing he should be able to do the things I want. Or maybe I'm just wishful thinking. I guess theres only one way to tell

[James9]

Cleon can I play Podolski as a inside forward on the left. He his left footed and I was wondering how this would affect him when set to cut inside.

[Cleon]

Cleon can I play Podolski as a inside forward on the left. He his left footed and I was wondering how this would affect him when set to cut inside.

It can work yes. Just keep an eye on him though as his marker could show him onto the outside a lot with him been left footed. But he should still be effective, just view games and see how it goes.

[OBK1]

Why did you decide to use Creative freedom more expressive and More roaming? The other choices I follow, but these two?

[Cleon]

Why did you decide to use Creative freedom more expressive and More roaming? The other choices I follow, but these two?

I have quite a few creative players in the side who are capable of winning games on their own. So it made sense to allow the team to be more creative and allow them the roaming so they aren't as static in their movement and easy to pick up. If you look at the individual screens you'll see who my roaming players are and the creative ones. For creating space its vital you have players who are capable of roaming from their initial position.

[OBK1]

I have quite a few creative players in the side who are capable of winning games on their own. So it made sense to allow the team to be more creative and allow them the roaming so they aren't as static in their movement and easy to pick up. If you look at the individual screens you'll see who my roaming players are and the creative ones. For creating space its vital you have players who are capable of roaming from their initial position.

Thank you and this is yet another good thread you make. I love how you walk us through all your choices, it was just that I missed the two above. Perhaps it would have been even more interesting had you discussed pros and cons of the choices you make. I know,

I ask much of you

[Cleon]

Thank you and this is yet another good thread you make. I love how you walk us through all your choices, it was just that I missed the two above. Perhaps it would have been even more interesting had you discussed pros and cons of the choices you make. I know,

I ask much of you

I've still not done that part of the thread yet. You'll see how my choices play out in actual games. It's easier to walk you through the choices when you see how it works in an ingame enviroment. It'll illustrate the points and put them across better by using visuals rather than just words

What you see in this thread so far is just a general outline, we've not got to the good stuff yet. All I've written so far is the basic stuff

[Fabian Jonsson]

Haven't read the whole thing yet (at work, so can only read so much non-work related stuff ), but so far it seems really good.

Just one thing I was wondering about; in the section about shouts you say that a lot of people say that it's better to "hard-code" the changes into the tactic rather than applying the corresponding shouts every game. That led me to wonder if the team gets familiar with certain shouts (those that are used often), or if indeed shouts influence the teams familiarity with the tactics at all? If not, than using shouts seems to be the obvious route to go, as they are a lot more flexible.

[Reedy_1988]

Cleon, as always your threads are unbelievable! when i get round to starting a new game i'm sure i'll be constantly checking back into this thread for tips/advice.

[James9]

It can work yes. Just keep an eye on him though as his marker could show him onto the outside a lot with him been left footed. But he should still be effective, just view games and see how it goes.

How about Cazorla playing as inside forward attack on the left. He has great creativity and flair and could bring something different to the position. It is just a thought really but I would like to get your advice on this.

[Cleon]

How about Cazorla playing as inside forward attack on the left. He has great creativity and flair and could bring something different to the position. It is just a thought really but I would like to get your advice on this.

I don't mean to sound off here but how am I supposed to know? I mean, I've not used the player and I'm not familiar with what he can do. Why don't you play someone there and see how he does for you on your game rather than asking for advice on something you, yourself haven't tried yet?

Sorry if it comes across as a rant or blunt. I don't mean to cause offence. But a lot of people don't seem to do any trial and error of their own and expect advice on something they haven't even tried.

What I'd do is play him in the position and get an idea of how he plays. Then if you want advice post up some stats from the game, his average positions etc and then I'll gladly give you advice and opinions. But without knowing how he played there I can't really advise. It would just all be guess work and because I've never used the player I'd rather not feed you false info

This isn't a rant though, I'm trying to get you and others to be more experimental in your own games

[NakS]

Where is the download link?!

I am using (alongside 4222 box) a 433 with a Treq-A+IF-A+Winger-A combo at the moment as the front 3, supported by a trio of CM-A + CM-S + DM-D and 2WB-S. Works wonder.

The most interesting point for me is, with a similar role (Treq), how players' attributes/PPMs/space/time on the ball/opponent matter so much. Once you have a balanced and standard tactical set-up with TC (5minutes), choosing the best player for the job is in my opinion way more important than keeping the same player but changing tactical role. I don't want a BWM-D, I want a midfielder with workrate, stamina, tackling, bravery, determination, balance, etc...

I was just reading wwfan saying "the more fluid your philosophy, the less specialized role in theroy". A trio of CM-A + CM-S + DM-D in a balanced philosophy (trequartista and IF as specialised role) allows me to alter how my midfield is playing just by squad selection like you do with the Treq role with your striker.

Looking forward for the good stuff then!

[Cleon]

Where is the download link?!

I am using (alongside 4222 box) a 433 with a Treq-A+IF-A+Winger-A combo at the moment as the front 3, supported by a trio of CM-A + CM-S + DM-D and 2WB-S. Works wonder.

The most interesting point for me is, with a similar role (Treq), how players' attributes/PPMs/space/time on the ball/opponent matter so much. Once you have a balanced and standard tactical set-up with TC (5minutes), choosing the best player for the job is in my opinion way more important than keeping the same player but changing tactical role. I don't want a BWM-D, I want a midfielder with workrate, stamina, tackling, bravery, determination, balance, etc...

I was just reading wwfan saying "the more fluid your philosophy, the less specialized role in theroy". A trio of CM-A + CM-S + DM-D in a balanced philosophy (trequartista and IF as specialised role) allows me to alter how my midfield is playing just by squad selection like you do with the Treq role with your striker.

Looking forward for the good stuff then!

That's something I do a lot, change the player who plays the role based on what I expect from the match. I've done this a lot on this save especially with the three strikers, Defoe, Rossi and Adebayor. You don't see to many posts around here based on the role and the players you use, it all seems to be that if you changed the player you need to change the role.

[RTHerringbone]

I have quite a few creative players in the side who are capable of winning games on their own. So it made sense to allow the team to be more creative and allow them the roaming so they aren't as static in their movement and easy to pick up. If you look at the individual screens you'll see who my roaming players are and the creative ones. For creating space its vital you have players who are capable of roaming from their initial position.

Cleon, does increased CF and Roaming compensate for having a Balanced Style, rather than conflict with it?

Being Balanced gives more structure to your shape generally, but by then increasing CF and Roaming, presumably you are giving your players some license to express themselves outside of the constraints of the Style?

These threads are so valuable for someone trying to get to grips with the game. I'm interested by the fundamental differences between how you and other established users set up a game, but still with the same end product (results!)

If I compare the theory behind this tactic and what I have digested from wwfan and applied to my own tactic, there are huge fundamental differences; another load of possibilities for me to consider and get baffled by! Your approach in this tactic feels very aggressive and full of flair, and that is appealing, I suspect I may be tinkering again this evening...

[Cleon]

Cleon, does increased CF and Roaming compensate for having a Balanced Style, rather than conflict with it?

Being Balanced gives more structure to your shape generally, but by then increasing CF and Roaming, presumably you are giving your players some license to express themselves outside of the constraints of the Style?

These threads are so valuable for someone trying to get to grips with the game. I'm interested by the fundamental differences between how you and other established users set up a game, but still with the same end product (results!)

If I compare the theory behind this tactic and what I have digested from wwfan and applied to my own tactic, there are huge fundamental differences; another load of possibilities for me to consider and get baffled by! Your approach in this tactic feels very aggressive and full of flair, and that is appealing, I suspect I may be tinkering again this evening...

Indeed it does.

I am very aggressive and have quite a bit of flair yeah. It's not always aggressive though and it can be slow and pateint if needed to be. But I trust my players to make sure they make the correct decisions and play the type of football they think we should be for whatever scenario they are faced with. This was the main reason I went counter attacking because it allows fast play when a good opposrtunity arises and at the same time the defence are happy to drop back, pick up the ball and pass it around and be more probing.

[JackDavies]

Hi Cleon,

Great thread once again! I'm gonna have a crack at a season with West Brom and see how it plays out.

My first question (of possibly many, Im fortunate enough to have most of December off) is I see you have Bale and Lennon as IF and Winger respectively, was this to ensure balance in the tactic, or simply because they suited these roles. What do you think the ramifications of playing a Winger or IF on both sides (i.e two wingers or two IF's)

[ginola14]

Trurely a very helpful thread. Thansk a lot for your efforts.

My question is: when a player is scouted or when you ask for a report for your own players, the staff provides you the best fitting positions and roles for that player. In your approach, especially the roles for the players seem to be defined regardless of those coach reports. I mean, for all three of your strikers the best reported role is definitely not Trequertista. But you play them as Trequartista and it seems to work as a charm as a result of the logical frame you drew in initial posts. Does that mean that we shall (at least occasionally) forget about the coach reports and just implement the pre-decided roles in our tactics?

This confuses me a lot. In my games, I decide on a formation and determine the player roles accordingly. Then I pick the best fitting players (looking mostly to their attributes) and in most cases those roles are not reported to be the "best" for that player according to my coaching staff. And when I start to get bad results, the first thing to blames seems to be this. I know putting a player in a specific role needs careful analysis of attributes combined with his reports and PPMs and etc. But looking at this thread makes me think like that the importance of coach analysis on best fitting position and role might be negligible.

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon,

Great thread once again! I'm gonna have a crack at a season with West Brom and see how it plays out.

My first question (of possibly many, Im fortunate enough to have most of December off) is I see you have Bale and Lennon as IF and Winger respectively, was this to ensure balance in the tactic, or simply because they suited these roles. What do you think the ramifications of playing a Winger or IF on both sides (i.e two wingers or two IF's)

I've got Insigne coming for the 2nd season so he will be an IF on the rightside instead of Lennon. I just felt Lennon is best when he can run at the fullback and beat him. He can then cross and let Bale/Ade get on the end of it. It doesn't hurt to have players who can play differently should you need to change the actual role.

But to answer your question, I do intend on playing 2 IF's next season if Insigne settles. It should work well because the striker will drop deep to create space for them to run into. I might lose a bit of width though so I'll have to ensure the wingbacks are still involved.

[Cleon]

Trurely a very helpful thread. Thansk a lot for your efforts.

My question is: when a player is scouted or when you ask for a report for your own players, the staff provides you the best fitting positions and roles for that player. In your approach, especially the roles for the players seem to be defined regardless of those coach reports. I mean, for all three of your strikers the best reported role is definitely not Trequertista. But you play them as Trequartista and it seems to work as a charm as a result of the logical frame you drew in initial posts. Does that mean that we shall (at least occasionally) forget about the coach reports and just implement the pre-decided roles in our tactics?

This confuses me a lot. In my games, I decide on a formation and determine the player roles accordingly. Then I pick the best fitting players (looking mostly to their attributes) and in most cases those roles are not reported to be the "best" for that player according to my coaching staff. And when I start to get bad results, the first thing to blames seems to be this. I know putting a player in a specific role needs careful analysis of attributes combined with his reports and PPMs and etc. But looking at this thread makes me think like that the importance of coach analysis on best fitting position and role might be negligible.

It depends on how you play. I am trying to create a certain type of football so for this is needs certain players in the side i.e the striker to drop deep to create space for the wide players to run into. Now if I used a Targetman, AF or a Poacher neither of those roles would allow this. I could use a DLF but I just looked at the settings and thought a Treq would be more suitable. So what I do is look at the atributes I think are needed for the role and try and but the players to fit what I have in mind.

For me the attributes are the most important thing rather than what the coach report says. That doesn't mean everyone should ignore them or play the same way as me. It's just that this fits my play style

[lam]

You have to remember, when you ask for a report, beit a coach or a scout, they are reporting solely on the player, BUT you are building a TEAM.

If you built the tactic based on reports only you could have 5 CM(A)'s sitting in you midfield, which obviously doesn't work. Interestingly, players do not have a 'personal' prefered position. Sure they have positions that they are familiar in working from, but you don't get any of this "he is being played on the right when he prefers the central position" and the same an be said for duties and roles. Thus a player won't really care where you play him as long as he gets games.

In the interests of finances and selling players, ideally you'd like to play them where they perform best so as to promote their abilities if you wish to sell them at some point.

What Cleon does is through years of experience he can look at a role on the field and know who can play that with/without their supposed correct abilities.

Another thing..... just because you're playing with an AP(A) in the AMC position, it doesn't mean that you need someone with masses of creativity and passing ability, or if you are playing someone in the DM position, that doesn't mean they need tiptop tackling, strength and jumping. It's far more about how you want them to play for the TEAM. This is one of the reasons why Dembele is doing so well for people in the AMC position..... have you seen his passing and creativity.... hardly worthy of the first spot of a classic AMC role, however, get the ball to him, his first touch brings it under control amidst teh enemy, they committ to the tackle and he drags the ball to the left a little.... space...... he darts forwards with the ball at feet jinking and weaving around, the last DC committs to the tackle and he releases a very simple ball past the DC (low passing required) for the striker to walk onto....

Put players in the positons where they can do the most damage (or stop the most damage). If they have the skills but not the familiarity of the role... then re-train them..... I look to train Defoe in the AMR position on nearly every save.... he is very dangerous from that position.

[LilSaint]

great post, i read through most of it and will in-depth read it tonight when i continue my save.

I've been playing this tactic (451 on counter-attacking) for my first season too, but as my board complained my style of play wasn't attacking enough, i switched to 4231 and i've been struggling ever since. Finished second in my first season, fifth in the second season and currently struggling through the third

your post will be of great help to regain my teams form i believe

[legacalcoo11]

What a great post Cleon. This really helped me to make my own tactic . I weill fellow this tread closely

[Orri]

Very good advice. Thanks, Cleon.

Two things I learned here was that 1. A Treq does not need to be a highly technical flair monster. I had that bias stuck in my mind for some reason and therefore did not even consider the role for my championship standard target man. After reading this I changed his role and so far he has been excellent, great movement and link up play. He makes the whole team come alive! 2. WB-A is not a crazy gung ho suicidal role. It actually works quite well and does not necessarily leave your wings wide open all the time.

My preconceived notions were getting in the way of me trying those things and now they are gone, resulting in better football and better results from my team.

[Rashidi]

Interesting to see another 41221 which is fundamentally different from mine. I set mine up to be more defensive in orientation, its quite amazing to see how one can get success approaching it differently.

Your trio in midfield are set up with basically two chaps anchoring, the DM and the DLP. So your attacking pivots come mainly from the flanks or exclusively down the left. Mine was set up for survival primarily, to lock down flank attacks so I had a double pivot in midfield with a B2B and an APM. When I look through my goals its mostly driven through my middle. I don't get many goals, in fact 1.6 per game, which is really low. I concede 0.6 per game, but I need to start grabbing more goals. With 9 games left Stafford are in a deadheat for promotion, with 6 sides in contention for an automatic berth, and I need all the inspiration I can find lol.

I miss FMLive, only time ppl could go head to head in real time. No more 1v1vs the Collyers

[Rashidi]

How the hell do you find the time to do all this? Aren't u married with a litter of littlle cleonites?

[LilSaint]

Interesting to see another 41221 which is fundamentally different from mine. I set mine up to be more defensive in orientation, its quite amazing to see how one can get success approaching it differently.

Your trio in midfield are set up with basically two chaps anchoring, the DM and the DLP. So your attacking pivots come mainly from the flanks or exclusively down the left. Mine was set up for survival primarily, to lock down flank attacks so I had a double pivot in midfield with a B2B and an APM. When I look through my goals its mostly driven through my middle. I don't get many goals, in fact 1.6 per game, which is really low. I concede 0.6 per game, but I need to start grabbing more goals. With 9 games left Stafford are in a deadheat for promotion, with 6 sides in contention for an automatic berth, and I need all the inspiration I can find lol.

I miss FMLive, only time ppl could go head to head in real time. No more 1v1vs the Collyers

i played the same way, and i scored very few goals as well.

my midfield was locked tight but i didn't produce much if any chances myself, which led to frustration

[Rashidi]

i played the same way, and i scored very few goals as well.

my midfield was locked tight but i didn't produce much if any chances myself, which led to frustration

That was my goal to make a tactic that is rock solid and totally dependant on the counter, when I play against sides that are inferior to mine I need to unleash my backs. And when I camp I usually score, but nowhere as much as I would like.

[Robert the Spud]

4-1-2-2-1 is my favourite system, and I usually use it for every team I play with. My only issue is getting Van der Vaart playing in it. I could use him as an ADV P/Attack I suppose, next to Dembele and infront of Sandro. Though I do hope to use Sandro as a ball winner higher up.

Yes, I have edited VdV back into the Spurs squad for one particular save to see how he'd work. I could use him as a trequarista/False 9?

[Cleon]

great post, i read through most of it and will in-depth read it tonight when i continue my save.

I've been playing this tactic (451 on counter-attacking) for my first season too, but as my board complained my style of play wasn't attacking enough, i switched to 4231 and i've been struggling ever since. Finished second in my first season, fifth in the second season and currently struggling through the third

your post will be of great help to regain my teams form i believe

Let me know how it goes

What a great post Cleon. This really helped me to make my own tactic . I weill fellow this tread closely

Cheers.

Very good advice. Thanks, Cleon.

Two things I learned here was that 1. A Treq does not need to be a highly technical flair monster. I had that bias stuck in my mind for some reason and therefore did not even consider the role for my championship standard target man. After reading this I changed his role and so far he has been excellent, great movement and link up play. He makes the whole team come alive! 2. WB-A is not a crazy gung ho suicidal role. It actually works quite well and does not necessarily leave your wings wide open all the time.

My preconceived notions were getting in the way of me trying those things and now they are gone, resulting in better football and better results from my team.

On FM12 I used to use Ched Evans for the role who wasn't exactly great. I used him all the way until I was a top 4 EPL side then I needed someone who was slightly better to make that next push for the top spot.

There is a lot more to a role than who plays therer. For me its a case of asking what does the role offer the team and the supporting players around him. The way I'm set up is so Bale is actually the main striker. So for this to work the Treq's job is about dropping off and creating space. That's his first job and what I rely heavily on. After that his job is to involve himself and depending who I play, play the role differently. For me though and this set up Adebayor is the best you can get, there isn't another player on the game who comes close to him in terms of attributes for this role.

A lot of people are scared to try something new. Whats the worse that can happen, you lose?! Just experiment and be open to trying something different and you might be surprised by the results

I'm really glad you took the plunge though and seem to be enjoying it.

Interesting to see another 41221 which is fundamentally different from mine. I set mine up to be more defensive in orientation, its quite amazing to see how one can get success approaching it differently.

Your trio in midfield are set up with basically two chaps anchoring, the DM and the DLP. So your attacking pivots come mainly from the flanks or exclusively down the left. Mine was set up for survival primarily, to lock down flank attacks so I had a double pivot in midfield with a B2B and an APM. When I look through my goals its mostly driven through my middle. I don't get many goals, in fact 1.6 per game, which is really low. I concede 0.6 per game, but I need to start grabbing more goals. With 9 games left Stafford are in a deadheat for promotion, with 6 sides in contention for an automatic berth, and I need all the inspiration I can find lol.

I miss FMLive, only time ppl could go head to head in real time. No more 1v1vs the Collyers

Me and Lam play same formation (almost identical settings etc) and the same team. And we both have simliar success but how he approaches games and what he changes in terms of personnel he used compared to me bring us different results yet at the end of the season morealess same positions etc. It's great to see so many variants that you can play and have them all bring simliar end results.

How the hell do you find the time to do all this? Aren't u married with a litter of littlle cleonites?

Indeed I am and do. They take a bit longer than they used to. Going back few years I'd have done this thread and added a lot more all within a day. Nowdays it takes me weeks and I just do little bits as and when

[Cleon]

4-1-2-2-1 is my favourite system, and I usually use it for every team I play with. My only issue is getting Van der Vaart playing in it. I could use him as an ADV P/Attack I suppose, next to Dembele and infront of Sandro. Though I do hope to use Sandro as a ball winner higher up.

Yes, I have edited VdV back into the Spurs squad for one particular save to see how he'd work. I could use him as a trequarista/False 9?

I'd use him as the AP and have Dembele as the all round player next to him.