The FM 41221 (433 - 451 - WoW)

[ham_aka_stam]

I think were on the same page, i meant the player mentality slider as you say if you move it left it go's to defensive to ultra defensive if put on first notch or if you move it right it go's to attacking. It's this were i seem to struggle as there's some players i just leave on what ever default come's with there role but there's some i like to tweak (as in there mentality) Like my 2 defenders start with just below normal to the left hand side of the mentality slider which i thought they would start on defensive

The names on the mentality slider are just a guide. I wouldn't change them from their roles' defaults unless you know what you're doing.

[wally13]

The names on the mentality slider are just a guide. I wouldn't change them from their roles' defaults unless you know what you're doing.

I get what your saying but i just find it odd why 2 defenders have normal mentality for there default and not defensive, Been playing game for years and im still none the wiser with the sliders

[Cleon]

I get what your saying but i just find it odd why 2 defenders have normal mentality for there default and not defensive, Been playing game for years and im still none the wiser with the sliders

Because if its defensive they'll be more inclined to do negative passes i.e backwards to the keeper. And they'd be sat very deep. Defensive isn't as good people think it is, it can cause big gaps between the players and leave holes for poachers or AMC's to exploit. It invites un-needed pressure a lot of time imo.

[wally13]

Because if its defensive they'll be more inclined to do negative passes i.e backwards to the keeper. And they'd be sat very deep. Defensive isn't as good people think it is, it can cause big gaps between the players and leave holes for poachers or AMC's to exploit. It invites un-needed pressure a lot of time imo.

Again i know what your saying cleon i'd just expect to center half's default mentality to start on defensive

[ham_aka_stam]

Ignore the words on the slider. Just ignore them. All they are telling you is that going left = more defensive and going right = more attacking.

They don't mean that defensive players should have the slider on them set left until they say defensive and attacking the other way.

If you really want to find out how it works then use a global mentality and play with the slider during a few full matches.

[Cleon]

Again i know what your saying cleon i'd just expect to center half's default mentality to start on defensive

You're putting too much emphasis on the actual words of the slider. Look at sliders like Ham mentions above.

[wally13]

See what you mean now, It's only last few versions of FM were I've messed with sliders and i always put my defenders on at least the first notch of defensive mentality

[ham_aka_stam]

You can trust the choices made by the TC as far as mentality is concerned, and if you change them, then shouts/changes of style won't affect those players.

I'd only change a player's mentality manually if I really really wanted a certain kind of play from him and no role would do it.

[Hagi_07]

Really dislike the amount of long balls that get played when you have players in the AML and AMR position on attack. Every formation I try to make 4-1-2-2-1 or 4-2-3-1 I end up with my AML and AMR's on support otherwise they go to far forward and my defenders punt it long.

Maybe its just a personal preference. I hate seeing possession wasted on a hopeful long ball.

[furiousuk]

Really dislike the amount of long balls that get played when you have players in the AML and AMR position on attack. Every formation I try to make 4-1-2-2-1 or 4-2-3-1 I end up with my AML and AMR's on support otherwise they go to far forward and my defenders punt it long.

Maybe its just a personal preference. I hate seeing possession wasted on a hopeful long ball.

That's part of the reason why I think that this formation is quite well suited to a longer passing length (not necessarily long ball, and short passing can defo work, it's just that the setup - with aggressive widemen - lends itself to longer balls).

These long balls are supposed to be speculative rather than 'a punt'. The difference, on the face of it, is only semantic, but it's the reasoning behind each that is important. The first is a choice, the 2nd is forced by the opposition (or by a lack of skill). If your players have the choice to play the long ball but choose the safer, shorter option then that is excellent and should produce some fantastic, intelligent football where patience is used when necessary or a longer ball when more urgency is required.

Getting this in FM is completely possible too. Probably the most important thing is the player in question - those defenders with poor mentals or poor technicals (or both) will be more likely to clear the ball because they either don't see safe options around them or can't execute them (there may, of course, be no safe options either but that's a slightly different issue).

After the player aspect there is the tactical aspect. If you're playing with an Attacking strategy by default then you're telling your players to get the ball forward as quickly as possible because the quickest route to goal is the most direct (this is slightly simplifying things but it makes it clearer). 9 times out of 10 playing with a lower mentality is enough to curtail such hurried speculative balls forward - with a decent passing length and with AMR/AML making runs your deeper guys are still free to play the ball forward but it should be a choice and a choice that is made by intelligent players who will make a good choice more often than not.

A quick tempo could also encourage your deeper players to play quickly which might mean they don't get time to assess their short options, assume they don't have any, and play it long when really they shouldn't.

I play with an aggressive AMR/AML who usually end up high up the pitch but I don't think my defenders unnecessarily launch the ball forward. My defenders are smart and, mostly, half-decent ball players and I rarely play above Standard. When I'm really under the cosh by a team they'll play it forward more but, in theory, there should be more space higher up because the opposition are pressing heavily. Classic cat-and-mouse.

[SJ234]

My issue at the moment is my player on the right hand side is often barely involved in the match whilst all the other players are very involved. The player doesn't perform if set up as a IF or W (both attack). I want this play to be my more direct option so to vary the play.

Also how much of a difference does fluid make compared to balanced? As I like attacking fullbacks who will go on the outside and if necessary provide width.

[Babak G]

Im curious on how the WOW formation/system discussed in the earlier posts works. In terms of the full backs/wing backs what sort of role should they be playing specifically?

[furiousuk]

Im curious on how the WOW formation/system discussed in the earlier posts works. In terms of the full backs/wing backs what sort of role should they be playing specifically?

The WOW just describes the natural separation of concerns that generally happens in this formation - this is quite apparent using balanced when the FB's have a support role and are not too adventurous. Everything is fluid so players do move around but your avg.position heatmap should end up looking something like 2 W's stacked on top of each other with the top 5 players being your attackers and your bottom 5 being your defenders. As with many formations it is the FB's who often end up floating between the two.

FB's on attack is fine of course, particularly if you have aggressive, attacking players playing there but you have to be mindful of the counter (only mindful though, your DM should be holding so you'll have 3 back there at least anyway). On an attack duty there is a chance that both FB's will get very adventurous so you could get caught with both high upfield when you turnover the ball - that leaves them a lot of work to do. On a support duty they tend to move forward only when there is a genuine attacking threat down their flank which usually means that only 1 will be very advanced at a time so you have 3 + the other FB not far away if you are countered against. This is very strong - plus, your FB's should be hard-working and quick so they can track back quickly from their advanced position and so long as you slow up the counter they can get back in time.

[Babak G]

Thanks for the explanation. So you're basically defining the phases of the 4-5-1/4-3-3 rather than the WOW being a stand-alone set up then.

[furiousuk]

Thanks for the explanation. So you're basically defining the phases of the 4-5-1/4-3-3 rather than the WOW being a stand-alone set up then.

Yeah, absolutely. Although I'd imagine it would be easy enough to 'define' your tactic around that separation. Whether it would be successful/sensible/advisable is another question entirely!

[SJ234]

Really struggling at times to get the consistency I want from this tactic. I struggle to keep the ball in some matches with possession getting as low as 32%. The cm players don't seem to get on the ball enough and I am not sure how to deal with these issues.

[thomit]

I use my variant of this 4-1-2-2-1 (I will call it a 4-5-1 for the sake of simplicity), but at Very Fluid, and Control. Always. Whoever I'm up against, home or away - doesn't matter. The only thing I will change, is subs ... and on very rare occasions, like if I'm playing against Barca in the CL final, leading with 1 goal 5 minutes from full time - I will pull back my left wing back and my right full back. No running forward, lads. That's it. I don't even use shouts any more - I used to start every match with a couple of shouts "pre-loaded", but now I have everything I need incorporated into the tactic.

All of this is mostly straight out of the Tactic Creator. But I have tweaked some running forwrd, some runs with ball, a few mentalities (in the midfield trio), and no long shooting for anyone. Also tempo, width, and defensive line is "me". And most important: Passing at the very shortest, for every player except my main 2 playmakers, the MC® and the IF(L). Team is Arsenal. Tactic works like a dream, thomit is very happy, dominating the league together with Man City, and allways in the very latest stages of the CL. So not winning everything, always ... which is good. Keeps it interesting, and realistic. My main job now that I have a tactical base that works, is to find the right players for it. You could say I have become a true "Wenger" ... tactic is always the same, whoever I meet, home or away It works because most teams have serious difficulties trying to stop me anyway, even if they know how I'm going to play. I have 5 players that all can be supplying the key pass, and trying to close them all down effectively at any given time, is mostly hopeless and futile. Some of my best key through balls comes from my DM, which is very often left unmarked and unattended, as the opposition defence is trying hard to cope with my other 6 forward players.

PS. Oh, btw - if anyone is interested in having a look at my tactic, for comparison or for an idea or two, please feel free to pm, and I will mail it.

[furiousuk]

Really struggling at times to get the consistency I want from this tactic. I struggle to keep the ball in some matches with possession getting as low as 32%. The cm players don't seem to get on the ball enough and I am not sure how to deal with these issues.

I wouldn't say that this formation naturally lends itself to possession football (although it can obviously work, Barca have the lions share).

Why do you lose the ball? Are your players spending too long on the ball? If so, are there options? Can they see them? Are they good enough to execute those options? etc etc

What are your roles and duties for your midfield trio? Do you want them pushing forward into the AM strata or holding in midfield? Is there a particular formation that is causing you trouble? i.e. a DM formation? or a 3-midfield formation?

[SJ234]

I wouldn't say that this formation naturally lends itself to possession football (although it can obviously work, Barca have the lions share).

Why do you lose the ball? Are your players spending too long on the ball? If so, are there options? Can they see them? Are they good enough to execute those options? etc etc

What are your roles and duties for your midfield trio? Do you want them pushing forward into the AM strata or holding in midfield? Is there a particular formation that is causing you trouble? i.e. a DM formation? or a 3-midfield formation?

My aim isn't to keep the ball very well (i.e. 65%+). I want the team to not to keep so appallingly as that is suicidally low especially as I am Arsenal and thus have a strong team; the opposition was marginally stronger. The issue seemed to be due to a disconnect between the midfield pair and the holding mid and defence (I was using fluid), they pushed up too high which meant there was a lack of options; though in that horror show of a match the midfield pairing was not my strongest in previous matches when the pairing was stronger and the opposition was weaker possession was still too low. The roles were AM and two AP (s). My aim was to create a double pivot.

It isn't one formation but rather our retention of the ball has generally been disappointing and thus I knew in the subsequent match we would really struggle.

[SJ234]

May have solved the issue as the tactic was a variation on an old tactic of mine which had the cm pair on roam from position

[thomit]

So? I have all my forwrd players on roaming, including the 2 central midfielders. Maybe fluid isn't fluid enough; try Very Fluid. The midfield trio would still need some individual mentality tweaking in order to get the best out of their spacing and teamwork. Try setting the lowest of them the same as your dm (which could be right smack in the middle or 1 or 2 notches below, in my experience), then the other one 3 or 4 notches higher. The MC with lowest mentality should be the one to make forwrd runs, the other one should concentrate on thru-balls. Very Fluid (and Control) sets the rest of the players mentalities the same for every player (a couple of notches towards attacking). This works very well for me. Even with virtually every player in front of the ball set to roam. I even get the wide players to track back now and then, to help in defending. But more importantly; Very Fluid along with a sensible width setting, allmost guarantees that players will be in good positions related to each other, in order to be available for a pass, or a pass into space.

One thing is certain; Very Fluid is the best option for those that is going for ball posession ... as long as you then don't screw it up with unwise individual tweakings

Edit: You should maybe take a long hard look at your tempo. Too low will not help you keep posession, quite the contrary; players dwelling too long on the ball are more susceptible to lose it to closing down and hard tackling opponents. Also be careful about the use of the hold up ball setting. I never use it for any player, because I play a very short passing game with high(ish) tempo. These instructions would counter that.

I play as high a tempo as my players will cope with. You can easily try this out for yourself; start with a low(ish) tempo, monitor your teams posession rate and pass accuracy. Then gradually increase tempo. At one point it will become too high for your players to cope with; they will start to lose posession and passing accuracy. Then go one step back .... you have now found your team's optimum tempo setting, for that particular tactic, and those particular players. All this while making sure that match prep levels are fluid everywhere else, and you need of course several matches to be able to see a pattern.

[SJ234]

So? I have all my forwrd players on roaming, including the 2 central midfielders. Maybe fluid isn't fluid enough; try Very Fluid. The midfield trio would still need some individual mentality tweaking in order to get the best out of their spacing and teamwork. Try setting the lowest of them the same as your dm (which could be right smack in the middle or 1 or 2 notches below, in my experience), then the other one 3 or 4 notches higher. The MC with lowest mentality should be the one to make forwrd runs, the other one should concentrate on thru-balls. Very Fluid (and Control) sets the rest of the players mentalities the same for every player (a couple of notches towards attacking). This works very well for me. Even with virtually every player in front of the ball set to roam. I even get the wide players to track back now and then, to help in defending. But more importantly; Very Fluid along with a sensible width setting, allmost guarantees that players will be in good positions related to each other, in order to be available for a pass, or a pass into space.

One thing is certain; Very Fluid is the best option for those that is going for ball posession ... as long as you then don't screw it up with unwise individual tweakings

Edit: You should maybe take a long hard look at your tempo. Too low will not help you keep posession, quite the contrary; players dwelling too long on the ball are more susceptible to lose it to closing down and hard tackling opponents. Also be careful about the use of the hold up ball setting. I never use it for any player, because I play a very short passing game with high(ish) tempo. These instructions would counter that.

I play as high a tempo as my players will cope with. You can easily try this out for yourself; start with a low(ish) tempo, monitor your teams posession rate and pass accuracy. Then gradually increase tempo. At one point it will become too high for your players to cope with; they will start to lose posession and passing accuracy. Then go one step back .... you have now found your team's optimum tempo setting, for that particular tactic, and those particular players. All this while making sure that match prep levels are fluid everywhere else, and you need of course several matches to be able to see a pattern.

I would agree with the idea that having the roam from position for the cm's won't work with fluid particularly as with the high mentality they drift too far forwards. I intend to move towards to very fluid in the long term when I have been able to shape the squad more into what I want. At the moment I have kept to most of the TC. I will certainly fiddle the tempo like that.

How do you set your team to win the ball back?

Also I think your changing of the mentalities of the midfield with very fluid was important as otherwise it is much more difficult to create the appropriate balance.

[thomit]

I win the ball back with heavy duty closing down, all the time, all players except the goalie and the back four - but even they have high(ish) closing down. You could also set some of your midfield or forward players on hard tackling, I suppose - but I haven't experimented with that. Also tight marking ticked on everyone. The important thing is to have hard working, determined midfield players. You will win the ball back if you have the right sort sort of players in midfield, and get the forwards helping with relentless closing down and marking. You force the opposing players to make mistakes and bad passes. Most of my subs are not because of players having a bad game, but because of them getting tired. Specially the midfield. But most of my subs on the bench are just as good as the "first" team, so ...

I will be the first one to admit that my way of playing, and my tactics, needs a certain calibre of players in order to make it work. With Arsenal I'm fine, I have (just) the budget to get the right players. With e.g. Leyton Orient (playing on the telly right now, the only reason I chose them as an example ), I would probably be slaughtered if I tried anything like that. What's needed is creativity and technique coupled with workrate and teamwork. I choose teamwork as main focus in match prep, except for matches that I should win easily; then I switch to attacking movement.

[furiousuk]

It's worth considering that incredible levels of closing down and tight marking is very hard work and you risk tiring your players, especially if they aren't super-fit or super-hard-working, but if you're playing possession and keeping the ball 60+% of the time it means that you are controlling the tempo for most of the game. It's how teams like Swansea and Barca manage to press so heavily without totally knackering their players (obviously fitness is very important)

[SJ234]

Yeah; I am not looking for very high possession amounts. I just want to ensure it isn't dangerously low and thus we are just inviting pressure.

[SJ234]

Really enjoy trying to create this tactic. However am I mad thinking that the ratings system underrates the performances of the MCs?

[furiousuk]

Really enjoy trying to create this tactic. However am I mad thinking that the ratings system underrates the performances of the MCs?

Yes, it's hard to get ratings up for midfielders, particularly the creative types. With any involved tactic the midfield often make the crucial pass but there could be 1 or 2 more passes before the goal so they don't get the assist and don't seem to get much of a boost (beyond a completed pass).

I've often thought that a player was having a cracker of a game, neat and tidy, getting into good positions, making no mistakes but they end up with a 6.9 or something.

So long as you are happy thats the most important thing.

My DM has got man of the month but only because he takes the set pieces so picks up some goals and assists. The other chaps, despite playing well, have never got anywhere near it.

[jaycar]

Just to let you know furious I've been using 'The Drogba method' with my Southampton save and its working really well, some great football played.

Big thumbs up

[yaşar]

Just to let you know furious I've been using 'The Drogba method' with my Southampton save and its working really well, some great football played.

Big thumbs up

could you send me your drogba metod tactic ?

[jaycar]

Go to page 1, post 2, its more or less outlined there. Only difference is that instead of an IF I use a winger on that flank.

I use Balanced with that, Zonal marking and press more. That's it.

[Kamil-S]

<bump> (because this thread deserves to be on first page)

[yonko]

Absolutely. This formation is still working very nicely on FM 13, although with a little differences compared to FM 12. As I've posted in another thread, at the moment I'm using this:

Philosophy: Balanced

Strategy: Control

Pass Shorter

Default Creative Freedom

Press More

Default Tackling

Zonal Marking

Drill Crosses

More Roaming

GK = SK-d (distribution set to my best passing DC)

DR/L = WB-s

DCs = CD-d

DM = DM-d

MCR = DLP-s (chosen as Playmaker)

MCL = AP-s

AMR/L = IF-s

ST = T-a

Starting shouts in most games: Push Higher Up, Hassle Opponents, Stay on Feet.

Shouts to increase possession: Retain Possession (duh!), Pass to Feet, Play out of the Back, Play Through Defense. Plus, if necessary use DLP-d and DLP-s for my two MCs.

Against equally strong teams who use heavy pressing against me, especially in away games, I use Pass into Space shout and Standard Strategy. With Barcelona, I've beaten Real M 2-0 in my away league game that way and Chelsea 2-0 in my CL 1/4 final 2nd away leg.

In addition, in every game I face a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2, I specifically man-mark their two MCs or DMs. If the opposition is also using a 4-1-2-2-1 against me then my MCL man-marks their DM, my MCR man-marks their MCL and my DM man-marks their MCR.

[Kamil-S]

I've tried similiar setup with IFs/a and DLF/s but my AMRLs act more like wingers (not always but generally) - they play too wide and cut inside too late instead of waiting for through balls at shoulders of defenders.

[ChrisLiebing]

So does anyone actually want to post a proven working tactic from all this?

[Kamil-S]

So does anyone actually want to post a proven working tactic from all this?

You missed the point of this thread if you're waiting for any tactic...

[lam]

Fantastic thread Furious!

Particularly interesting to me at the moment as I am taking my first steps into the 451 (41221) this season.

Given the popularity of the DM, or two, in the current series (and RL) in your view what is the best way to setup to deal with this?

Currently I am tending to go for Adebeyor (Playing as Spurs) when there are DM's in situ with Cavani on the right as IF(A), however if there are no DM's I will bring Cavani into FC (DLP(S)) and then bring Lennon back into the R.IF(A) role.

Also, an annoyance I have currently and I don't know if this is down to settings, match engine, partly familiarity (mostly fluid now), but I can have my two wingers, fc, fullbacks all up (and mostly in space) yet no one wants to make a pass into the box and when they do, the ball flys through (this is ME problem).

I'll try and make some videos and post somewhere later.

LAM

[furiousuk]

Fantastic thread Furious!

Particularly interesting to me at the moment as I am taking my first steps into the 451 (41221) this season.

Given the popularity of the DM, or two, in the current series (and RL) in your view what is the best way to setup to deal with this?

Currently I am tending to go for Adebeyor (Playing as Spurs) when there are DM's in situ with Cavani on the right as IF(A), however if there are no DM's I will bring Cavani into FC (DLP(S)) and then bring Lennon back into the R.IF(A) role.

Also, an annoyance I have currently and I don't know if this is down to settings, match engine, partly familiarity (mostly fluid now), but I can have my two wingers, fc, fullbacks all up (and mostly in space) yet no one wants to make a pass into the box and when they do, the ball flys through (this is ME problem).

I'll try and make some videos and post somewhere later.

LAM

I've always found 2 DM formations a real pain to play against. I didn't see a 4231 (with DMs) much in FM11, and playing in England didn't see a narrow 4222 (2xDM,2xMC) much either but a 442 with 2 DM's was always a real headache. It parks 2 players in that empty zone you'd like to be using and, if they keep, shape tends to keep you knocking the ball around too far out from goal to be of much use.

The only thing I tried to do was get the widemen and the FC to play as high up as possible and get them making as many runs as possible and hope I could find some space to get the ball through to them or hit on the counter. Never really had much success playing through that packed area but did find a little change hitting the edges between DC and FB.

I'd say Ade is probably a good bet because he has some ability in the air which gives you another route to goal that doesn't rely on using the space that the opposition have packed.

I never found that depth was very consistent, sometimes I'd want to play deep to drag the DM's out, other times I'd want to play as close to the opposition goal as possible and rely on being able to exploit any lack of positioning or concentration. Neither was a consistent solution but each, in theory, is an option.

Some videos would be awesome to see some movement.

I haven't played FM13 as much as I would have liked but I've noticed through balls being far too heavy a couple of times, like you, I've put it down to a lack of familiarity or team gelling (or possibly match practise in my case).

[yonko]

I've tried similiar setup with IFs/a and DLF/s but my AMRLs act more like wingers (not always but generally) - they play too wide and cut inside too late instead of waiting for through balls at shoulders of defenders.

It depends on the players you use as AMR/L and what PPMs they have. Obviously it will help if they have "cuts inside". Some attributes contribute to this as well - off the ball, anticipation, decision. And lastly, it's better to play players on the opposite side of their strong foot - right footed AML and left footed AMR. There is plenty of the former, but much less quality players of the latter.

Anyway, if your Inside Forwards sometimes act as wingers and go on the outside trying to cross, then that's not necessarily a bad thing on FM13, because with this ME scoring from crosses is much more likely than on FM12.

Another thing that I've noticed so far on FM13 that is different compare to FM12 is that if I use a ST in Trequartista role, which has RFD rarely, then for some reason he gets in goalscoring positions less than if he has RFD on mixed. Messi started scoring more goals once I modified his role to include RFD=mixed, RWB=often, TTB=mixed and Long Shots=rarely. He still drops deep (has the PPM) but he also is more likely to get on the end of drilled crosses from wide positions. Even Villa and Sanchez play in similar way when used as ST on the rare occasion I give Messi a rest.

[pedromanuelpinto]

Hello,

I need help to put a 4-1-2-2-1 in lower premiership team (Southampton).

Philosophy: Balanced

Strategy: Control, Balanced if away

Pass Shorter

Default Creative Freedom

Press More

Default Tackling

Zonal Marking

Drill Crosses

Roaming = ? (default or more)

GK = GK-d

DR/L = RD/LD-s

DCs = CD-d

DM = DM-d

MCR = DLP-s (Playmaker) or DLP-d (if the other MC is AP)

MCL = AP-s or WMB-s ?

AMR/L = IF-s or IF + Adv Playmaker? Support or Attack?

ST = Adv fwrd or DLF or Defensive Fwrd?

I always was fan of the 4-2-3-1 system, but now i want to try a different one... And with Southampton without a Anchor it's dificult to defend.

[furiousuk]

Hello,

I need help to put a 4-1-2-2-1 in lower premiership team (Southampton).

Philosophy: Balanced

Strategy: Control, Balanced if away

If you sort out your core then you can be freer to play with the 3 attacking roles (AMR,AML,FC).

Your roles for your core all looks good, I'd be tempted to use DLP-s and AP-s in midfield with DM-d behind them. This creates a nice 'separation of concerns' without them becoming disjointed. I'd probably look to pair a good creator at DLP with a higher energy chap at AP (maybe use CM-s). I wouldn't go BWM as they'll get pulled out of shape too easily and keeping a tight central core will massively help your defensive game.

Zonal or man can work well depending on your players but if you can outmuscle the opponent keeping the central 5 players (DC,DC,DM,MC,MC) on man can work well. If you want to get interesting you could use zonal marking with a man DM, the idea being that DC,DC,MC,MC forms a disciplined box with the DM mopping up anyone that dares to get in there. You'd need a smash-mouth DM for this who makes good decisions as you don't want him neglecting his duties in there infront of the DCs. To be honest, the difference between man and zonal in FM is slight anyway.

In terms of attack, this formation is excellent at counter attacking but you've almost setup to reduce this. Shorter passing, control strategy with good roles can work of course, but it requires a demanding set of attributes from your players and may not be best suited to a team fighting it out in the top division. However, inviting the opposition on a little (its a strong defensive shape you've got) and then hitting them hard with counters through your wings is perfectly suited to both the tactic and a fighting team.

I'd have a look at using standard passing and lower your strategy to balanced/counter as a general rule.

In terms of roles for your attackers, you can be free to try and match it up with the personnel you have and how you can attack the opposition. A good countering combo is just to have two IF-atts on the wings - they won't do too much defending (depending on their attributes) but you want these guys running at a disorganised defense and causing havoc in a broken field situation. The guy up top can be used in a variety of ways but movement is usually a good idea for this chap. I love the complete forward-attack role here but it generally requires a very good player to get the best out of it although I had fairly decent success with more limited players (but those players had, crucially, good movement).

[pedromanuelpinto]

furiousuk,

Thanks for the coment, I tried to get almost every thing that you said, and I get this:

I will have a lower premier team so almost every team is better so don't want the ball.

Philosophy: Balanced

Strategy: Balanced and Counter if away

Pass Default

Default Creative Freedom

Press More

Default Tackling

Zonal Marking

Drill Crosses

Default Roaming

GK = GK-d

DR/L = RD/LD-s

DCs = CD-d

DM = DM-d

MCR = DLP-s (Playmaker)

MCL = AP-s (home) or MC-s (Away)

AMR/L = IF-s

ST = Complete Fwrd (I think Lambert can get the job...) or ?

[furiousuk]

furiousuk,

Thanks for the coment, I tried to get almost every thing that you said, and I get this:

I will have a lower premier team so almost every team is better so don't want the ball.

Philosophy: Balanced

Strategy: Balanced and Counter if away

All sounds like a good plan. Keep an eye on IF's, you might want them on attack to attack quickly down the flanks but you can be flexible.

I wouldn't say necessarily 'don't want the ball', that'll depend as much on who you pick. Playing counter doesn't mean you don't want the ball, infact, quite often the opposite happens because you aren't in any hurry to score so you play more patiently.

[yonko]

furiousuk,

Thanks for the coment, I tried to get almost every thing that you said, and I get this:

I will have a lower premier team so almost every team is better so don't want the ball.

Philosophy: Balanced

Strategy: Balanced and Counter if away

Pass Default

Default Creative Freedom

Press More

Default Tackling

Zonal Marking

Drill Crosses

Default Roaming

GK = GK-d

DR/L = RD/LD-s

DCs = CD-d

DM = DM-d

MCR = DLP-s (Playmaker)

MCL = AP-s (home) or MC-s (Away)

AMR/L = IF-s

ST = Complete Fwrd (I think Lambert can get the job...) or ?

What are the roles for your DR/L? Are they FB-s? Is your Complete Forward on support or attack duty?

I'm not sure about using "press more" considering you are playing with weaker team. Are your players getting dragged out of positions when defending? I'd think your defense might be more solid if you just use Default pressing.

Also, I would strongly recommend you specifically man-mark the opposition's MCs with your MCs. It limits their influence, control and passing, plus it helps you knock the ball off of them in midfield and start your counter.

[agentvinz]

Finding a left footed AMR is real pain.. If I use a right footed AMR with left foot being 'fairly strong' will it still work?? Or should I change his wide play into "move into channels"?

[yonko]

furiousuk,

I'm wondering what kind of set up are you using at the moment with your team? Are you even using 4-1-2-2-1? I know you also like 4-2-3-1 and other variations. Is there anything new or different from FM12? Just curious.....

[yonko]

Finding a left footed AMR is real pain.. If I use a right footed AMR with left foot being 'fairly strong' will it still work?? Or should I change his wide play into "move into channels"?

Fairly strong left foot for AMR works well for me. I have Deulofeu who is right footed but his left foot is fairly strong. He also has "runs with the ball often" and "cuts inside" as his PPMs. In my first season with Barca, he made 14 starts with 12 sub appearances, scoring 7 goals making 6 assists, was twice PoM and had a rating of 7.41. However, my usual starting AMR is Pedro, who is two-footed.

Otherwise, I agree that finding quality left footed AMRs is a problem. There aren't enough of them in the game. But if it's such a problem, I think it's OK to set your AMR as Winger-support/attack. That player can still be a very dangerous one on your team. In fact I know for example that Cleon likes the combination of Inside Forward,attack + Winger, attack + DLF, attack as his front three and recommends it often. I like it too, except I use a different role for my ST.

[furiousuk]

Finding a left footed AMR is real pain.. If I use a right footed AMR with left foot being 'fairly strong' will it still work?? Or should I change his wide play into "move into channels"?

I was lucky enough to have an astounding lefty at AMR for the majority of my long FM11 save but towards the end I also rotated with a quality out-and-out winger out there. I often still played him as IF-Att and he did really well, I can't remember exactly but think his left peg was only reasonable. He had immense technique though and was quick and good with the ball at his feet so was often able to make room for himself - if he has being barged by defenders from a tight angle then even with 19 for technique I suspect he would of struggled. Genuine right-footers can work, or, (as I was moving to) the IF/Winger/DLF or CF role combo is a beauty if your right-footer really doesn't like being an IF on the right.

furiousuk,

I'm wondering what kind of set up are you using at the moment with your team? Are you even using 4-1-2-2-1? I know you also like 4-2-3-1 and other variations. Is there anything new or different from FM12? Just curious.....

I'm still finding my feet with FM13 and due to other constraints at the mo have only gone FMC so far. I'm a big fan of the TC so FMC is ok for me, I miss the additional tweaks of course but it's a different mindset playing FMC anyway and I'm really more interested in just getting used it and how players move with the ME and stuff (plus, I'm rammed until at least Christmas so can't get too 'into' a save just yet).

After starting a nice save with Newcastle I've had to change machines so have gone Arsenal for a bit of fun. It is not fun! I'm getting my butt handed to me!

Ha ha!

In all seriousness, I'm trying to get away from the smash-and-grab 41221 I've been enjoying for so long but it is drawing me back in. My Newcastle team were 442 or 4411 and that was going well because it suited them (to be honest, Newcastle have a lovely flexible squad capable of many styles) but the Arsenal team I've got (basically got rid of some and got Fellaini, Schurlle and now Beckham - I know, I know, but it could be fun!) are absolutely prime candidates for a beautiful 41221 and I'm trying to bang them into a 4231 shaped hole.

I'm only getting spanked when I try and play a formation and style that doesn't suit the players. When I play the 41221 the team look fantastic, only Cazorla is really put out by this but he's good enough elsewhere anyway. I don't have a storming FC (despite trying to get one) but so far Walcott or Podolski do well. I want more creativity so might see if the Ox or Cazorla could play there.

Too early to make any decisions regarding it but the movement (when compared to the Arsenal 4231 that hasn't been working for me... yet) is fantastic. I think there is more fluidity of movement and I'm seeing more intricate stuff than maybe I did in FM11. Defensively it's not looked too shabby either. Mertesacker is a big lump at the back which is perfect, I wondered if I'd struggle with crosses coming in but so far so good.

I'm not saying its all perfect, I've seen some odds things in the ME but this could be the result of me chopping the squad about (I was trying stuff out and ended up getting rid of a lot and not really replacing, it'll be different come a long save) or tactical fluidity or something.

How are you finding FM13?

[pedromanuelpinto]

What are the roles for your DR/L? Are they FB-s? Is your Complete Forward on support or attack duty?

I'm not sure about using "press more" considering you are playing with weaker team. Are your players getting dragged out of positions when defending? I'd think your defense might be more solid if you just use Default pressing.

Also, I would strongly recommend you specifically man-mark the opposition's MCs with your MCs. It limits their influence, control and passing, plus it helps you knock the ball off of them in midfield and start your counter.

Hello,

The RD/LF are FB-s and the CF don't know...

Will try the deafult for pressure, because of that point (they are being out of the position).

Man-mark in the MCs and DM? Or just on one tipe?

[yonko]

I'm still finding my feet with FM13 and due to other constraints at the mo have only gone FMC so far. I'm a big fan of the TC so FMC is ok for me, I miss the additional tweaks of course but it's a different mindset playing FMC anyway and I'm really more interested in just getting used it and how players move with the ME and stuff (plus, I'm rammed until at least Christmas so can't get too 'into' a save just yet).

After starting a nice save with Newcastle I've had to change machines so have gone Arsenal for a bit of fun. It is not fun! I'm getting my butt handed to me!

Ha ha!

In all seriousness, I'm trying to get away from the smash-and-grab 41221 I've been enjoying for so long but it is drawing me back in. My Newcastle team were 442 or 4411 and that was going well because it suited them (to be honest, Newcastle have a lovely flexible squad capable of many styles) but the Arsenal team I've got (basically got rid of some and got Fellaini, Schurlle and now Beckham - I know, I know, but it could be fun!) are absolutely prime candidates for a beautiful 41221 and I'm trying to bang them into a 4231 shaped hole.

I'm only getting spanked when I try and play a formation and style that doesn't suit the players. When I play the 41221 the team look fantastic, only Cazorla is really put out by this but he's good enough elsewhere anyway. I don't have a storming FC (despite trying to get one) but so far Walcott or Podolski do well. I want more creativity so might see if the Ox or Cazorla could play there.

Too early to make any decisions regarding it but the movement (when compared to the Arsenal 4231 that hasn't been working for me... yet) is fantastic. I think there is more fluidity of movement and I'm seeing more intricate stuff than maybe I did in FM11. Defensively it's not looked too shabby either. Mertesacker is a big lump at the back which is perfect, I wondered if I'd struggle with crosses coming in but so far so good.

I'm not saying its all perfect, I've seen some odds things in the ME but this could be the result of me chopping the squad about (I was trying stuff out and ended up getting rid of a lot and not really replacing, it'll be different come a long save) or tactical fluidity or something.

How are you finding FM13?

I haven't tried FMC yet and I don't think I will. I like the full game with all the options as I like to be in control of everything.

I started playing FM13 on the beta release and in the beginning I wasn't too sure about the new ME. But since SI has updated it, I'm loving it. It is geared more towards possession soccer and there is more intricate stuff happening on the 3d. There are still some odd things in the ME, but I'm sure SI will iron those out in the near future with the patch or whatever. But it is obvious there is more potential with this ME.

I guess you can say it is easy for me since I play with Barcelona, but I also had to find my feet at first with the new game. I had a few quick experimental saves on the beta with Barca to adjust myself and my tactics. I just finished my first season on the full game with Barca and I'm honestly quite happy with how my team is playing. My instructions are not that much different than on FM12, but they come off better looking IMO with this ME.

One difference I've discovered is that in FM13 I see that my ST is better and more dangerous with RFD on "sometimes" rather than "rarely" like on FM12. As you know I like using Trequartista role for my ST, but I've had to change his RFD. My theory for that is because on FM13 crossing is more effective and STs score more effectively from these crosses even if they are not particularly tall or good in the air. Their movement in the box is just better that way. This also allows Inside Forwards, Wingers and Wingbacks to be more effective, rack up more assists as it happens IRL.

I'm enjoying FM13 so far. And at some point I do plan on playing it with a different team than Barca. I'm attracted to having a save with Chelsea for example due to them needing some rejuvenation and having great talents like Hazard, Mata and Oscar.

Hello,

The RD/LF are FB-s and the CF don't know...

Will try the deafult for pressure, because of that point (they are being out of the position).

Man-mark in the MCs and DM? Or just on one tipe?

Yeah good choice on using FB-s. I thought so, I just wasn't clear.

Also, yes man-mark specifically their MCs/DMs and AMC. Do NOT man-mark if the other team is using 3 AMC like Man City are. Against them, just man-mark their 2 MCs and beware of them switching to 3-4-1-2 formation. When they switch to using that formation, you could only then man-mark their AMC.

Against flat 4-4-2s man-mark the 2MCs. Against wide 4-2-3-1 (with AMC, AMRL) man-mark their 2MCs and AMC. Against 4-3-1-2s or 4-3-2-1 do not man-mark anyone in midfield, just play Tight Zonal. But you could man-mark their FBs/WBs with your Wingers/Inside Forwards.

BTW, you do know how to set specific man-marking, don't you?

[mikcheck]

furiousuk just quick question: if you're playing a left footed player in the AMR as Adv. Playmaker support, would you give an attack duty to the right FB?