Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[sjewitt]

i'm thinking of training a PPM to a player but the coaches are telling me they don't think he'll be able to learn it.

does anyone know if the coaches opinion actually has any truth to whether the player will learn it or fail?

if not is there another thing we can look at to give us an indication of whether the player will pass or fail?

[herne79]

can someone explain why a certain player seems not to be able to tutor anyone? it's not his rep as a player with the same rep points can so i can't work what the reason could be?

and do you know how long you have to wait before a player can tutor again as i've waited a few months now and it still just says he's just finished tutoring someone?

There is more to tutoring than just rep. Squad status, age, injuries, PPM training, recent tutoring of someone else, and rep all come into play.

some of my players are saying they feel the individual training focus i've put them on will have no benefit, (often jumping) does this mean with any certainty that that attribute is not gonna improve for a while?

or is it just the players moaning?

If they are getting benefit, ignore them. It's probably just reflective of a poor personality. And haven't you asked a question before about jumping? (ie., mostly a pointless training exercise).

Hello everyone,

My team has poor decision rating (18th in the legue), should i take it into account, when choosing mentality? Or in counter and control requirements to decision attribute are the same?

Thanks in advance.

Personally I very rarely look at the Decisions attribute when picking a mentality.

i'm thinking of training a PPM to a player but the coaches are telling me they don't think he'll be able to learn it.

does anyone know if the coaches opinion actually has any truth to whether the player will learn it or fail?

if not is there another thing we can look at to give us an indication of whether the player will pass or fail?

Ignore your coaches, they haven't got a clue. The success or failure of PPM training is all down to magic. Either that, or complex algorithms programmed by SI that include a chance for failure.

I prefer my magic theory.

[woland]

Personally I very rarely look at the Decisions attribute when picking a mentality.

Anybody has another opinion?

[herne79]

Anybody has another opinion?

The Decisions attribute helps a player decide what to do based on the options he has available to him.

He needs to do that regardless of which mentality you pick, so there isn't really much need to base your choice of mentality on your team's Decision ranking in the league.

Mentality is about risk taking (Defensive = low risk; Attacking = high risk; each other mentality is just a step change from the previous one), so consider that when picking a mentality rather than your players' Decisions attribute.

[THOG]

Anybody has another opinion?

With low Decisions, your team will be error prone in all phases of play, so I agree mentality doesn't matter much assuming your team's poor tactical intelligence is balanced out by other strengths. I would, however, consider playing a style that demands less of players' tactical decision-making and, if possible, use your most tactically intelligent players as playmakers.

[woland]

I would, however, consider playing a style that demands less of players' tactical decision-making

Thats what i mean:) If we play counter attack mentality we should just holding a shape, without too complicate for us closing down or possession. Another words, when you looking penetration possibilities or trying to provide intelligent closing down, you need good decision. Low mentality save you from this.

What do you mean when talking about playing style if you don't mean mentality:) I red your Tactician's Handbook and think that fast transition in attack and containment in defense suit well, but i thought it is all about counter attacking mentality:) Where i am wrong?

[sjewitt]

so i've just got the Spain job and it looks like the formation to play is 4-2-3-1 (narrow) an issue i'm having is the 3 att mids are so close to each other i'm having trouble getting the best out of each of them and them not getting in each other's way, if it makes any difference the players are Isco, Mata and Herrera.

any advice would be great thanks.

[herne79]

so i've just got the Spain job and it looks like the formation to play is 4-2-3-1 (narrow) an issue i'm having is the 3 att mids are so close to each other i'm having trouble getting the best out of each of them and them not getting in each other's way, if it makes any difference the players are Isco, Mata and Herrera.

any advice would be great thanks.

You know the answer to that already ---> "post your detailed tactical system, what issues you are seeing, and someone should be able to help".

[sjewitt]

okay, i've gone fluid, fairly wide, slightley higher, much lower tempo, closing down sometimes, short passing, play out of defence, overlap and work ball into box on a attacking mentality, now my my problem seems to be my 3 att mids aren't shining it seems like they are getting in each others way, so has anyone hot any advice for 3 att mids on narrow?

Thanks

[HUNT3R]

Herne79 did say detailed system. That's just a list of TIs.

Give them roles and duties (or PIs even) that make them not get in each others way and consider the TI - Stick to Positions.

[herne79]

As HUNT3R says, that's not a detailed system.

Why ask for a detailed system? Because you have to consider everything. You can't detach a certain portion of your set up - in this case your 3 attacking mids - from everything else. It all needs to balance.

Sure it would be easy to tell you to use a Shadow Striker, a Trequartista and an Attacking Midfielder (I'm not telling you to use them, it's just to illustrate the point) - but how are they going to combine with whatever striker role you are using? Or your midfielders? Or your fullbacks? Or your intended style of play? But we don't know that information because you haven't provided a detailed system - so we can't provide any suggestions.

[sjewitt]

okay cool,

fb(a) cd(d)x2 wb(s)

b2b cm(d)

ap(a)ap(s)am(s)

cf(a)

a problem might be the tactical familarity being so bad but then i guess it's like that for all nations teams,

games are so few and far between and i'm right at the start of the Euro league so no real time to experiment.

i'd like to play a possession style football with lot of movement. but it's a role i'm not familiar with as i've never used it with my club,

so any advice would be nice.

i'm thinking of adding a trequartista for the next match instead of one of the Ap.

the problem i guess is they are all playing okay 7, but none of them are standing out and leaving a positive mark on the game, and i'm not sure how to get them all to shine when in such close proximity to each other.

something i'm thinking about is would it be best if i went wide to create more room for each of them to play or narrow to focus the teams play through the centre where i am strong?

[sjewitt]

am i right in thinking all national teams are at awkward for tactical familarity? or does it improve a lot if you stay in the job?

just played Italy and somehow managed to win in probably the luckiest game i've had, interestingly they play 4-2-3-1 narrow aswell but didn't seem to have the problems i had,

1 thing i need to do is get the att mids to track their full backs as they had way too much space, also there was many times when one of my players had no idea what to do with the ball or would basically run into a team mate.

if anyone else has used this formation any tips would be great thanks.

i could possibly go 5-1-2-2 like i do with my club or maybe -5-2-1-2 but i'd really like to try something different for a learning experience.

[HUNT3R]

okay cool,

fb(a) cd(d)x2 wb(s)

b2b cm(d)

ap(a)ap(s)am(s)

cf(a)

- For one thing, it's still a 4-2-3-1, so you need to have 2 holding midfielders - especially here where you're trying (should be anyway) to create space for the 3 to operate in.

- Next, you have 2 playmakers next to each other. That surely will be an issue as they'll both be drifting into the same spaces?

- Then, who apart from the CF/A is going to score in that setup? I'm just trying to see what the idea is here.

- Just watch a few minutes of a match in full to see if players are all operating in their own space. Think about space and how you will get 3 players, who are very close to each other, operating in their own space. One sits, one more attacking and one pulling wide maybe? Or 2 sit deeper (one just dropping and the other dropping and drifting wide) and 1 attacking? Think about it.

[HUNT3R]

am i right in thinking all national teams are at awkward for tactical familarity?

It'll improve a bit, but obviously you only have those players for a couple of days every few months, so you don't really have time to get them to be very familiar with what's going on.

[sjewitt]

i've gone structured as i thought as my attacking players are so good they should be able to be left to do there own thing and the extra spacing would help, then i drew 5-5 with Ukraine so it seems half my team is working fine, then i beat italy 1-0 previous match (though i should of lost) thank god for De Gea, i changed my central mid to DLP(d) and CM(d) but i can never get a CM(d) to get a good end of match rating.

[Lohaller]

Playing in Italy and wondering what determines training workload for u-20 and u-18. Even when i do nothing it switches between medium and heavy without training intensity, resting days changing or coaches leaving/incoming.

[Lohaller]

Hello i have truble with my u-20 and u-18 training intensity. It jumps between medium and heavy without me interfering, i cant se anything changing but for some reason the intensity keeps changing and whenever it goes to high i get alot of unhappy players.

[tmpnd]

#1: How conservative can the DM(S) role be thought of when playing a 4-2-3-1 DM formation in a very fluid style with mixed passing, lower tempo? His partner would be a DM(D).

#2: How likely a DLF(A) is to be isolated on a very fluid system playing (usually) in a lower tempo, formation 4-1-4-1 DM? His partners would be a Winger and a Wide Midfielder set up as inside forward. CMs are likely to be a BWM and a B2B or an AP.

[Cleon]

Hello i have truble with my u-20 and u-18 training intensity. It jumps between medium and heavy without me interfering, i cant se anything changing but for some reason the intensity keeps changing and whenever it goes to high i get alot of unhappy players.

Do you have a u20 or u18 manager? Look in the staff responsibilities and make sure you're in-charge of them.

[Cleon]

#1: How conservative can the DM(S) role be thought of when playing a 4-2-3-1 DM formation in a very fluid style with mixed passing, lower tempo? His partner would be a DM(D).

#2: How likely a DLF(A) is to be isolated on a very fluid system playing (usually) in a lower tempo, formation 4-1-4-1 DM? His partners would be a Winger and a Wide Midfielder set up as inside forward. CMs are likely to be a BWM and a B2B or an AP.

1 - Depends what you call 'conservative'. If you're playing 4231 DM though I don't see how your DMC's would link the front 4 though with those two DMC roles you mention using.

2 - Isolation depends on what the players around him are doing. There's no way to know for sure unless you watch the game and see if the other roles are doing enough to stop the isolation or not.

[tmpnd]

1 - Depends what you call 'conservative'. If you're playing 4231 DM though I don't see how your DMC's would link the front 4 though with those two DMC roles you mention using.

2 - Isolation depends on what the players around him are doing. There's no way to know for sure unless you watch the game and see if the other roles are doing enough to stop the isolation or not.

1 - Doesn't mixed passing + clear ball to flanks help with that? Perhaps switching the DM(D) to a DLP(D). The AM should ideally be dropping deep as it's on support duty and usually has high work rate or comes deep to get ball PPM.

2 - I often see you giving this kind of advice, and i can tell for sure that you know a hell lot of football. But I don't! Just a suggestion, you're a great mod, but if you could be a bit clearer on what to notice. I'm saying this because I tried to watch the game on other issues trying to find the problem, but i just couldnt lol

[Cleon]

1 - No how would that help? So you have a playmaker who you want to drop deep and will be the focus of the sides attacks. Yet you're on about bypassing him and clearing the ball to the flanks? How will that help link play better?

2 - Haha a bit clearer? You mean more than the thousands of threads I've done about how to create tactics and how to spot issues etc? The next step up from that would be to go round to peoples homes and show them how to play the game...........I can only show people what to do, it's down to you as the user to take responsibility and use that information. I can't make you understand that's down to you. I can only show you how myself and others do things.

[bdixon]

Do playing with WB(A) focus passing to them?

[Cleon]

Do playing with WB(A) focus passing to them?

Only playmaker roles attract the ball. So for the WBA no, they don't attract the ball more than normal. That's not to say you can't channel play through them more though.

[bdixon]

Only playmaker roles attract the ball. So for the WBA no, they don't attract the ball more than normal. That's not to say you can't channel play through them more though.

Nice one. I had a wide player who I want to be the main creator of my team, would IF(S) or an AP(S) in the AMR position yield better results. Baring in mind I already have a AP(S) in the MC position or is that acceptable?

[HUNT3R]

Nice one. I had a wide player who I want to be the main creator of my team, would IF(S) or an AP(S) in the AMR position yield better results.

If you read the descriptions and look at the PIs and Key Attributes for an Inside Forward on Support and a Wide Playmaker Support, what would you think will better suit the main creator of the team?

[bdixon]

If you read the descriptions and look at the PIs and Key Attributes for an Inside Forward on Support and a Wide Playmaker Support, what would you think will better suit the main creator of the team?

Yeah I played a few games using the AP(S) and didn't like how central he come, kinda got in the way of my BBM so reverted back to IF(S)

[Jean0987654321]

Yeah I played a few games using the AP(S) and didn't like how central he come, kinda got in the way of my BBM so reverted back to IF(S)

That's kind of what the APs is supposed to do

Maybe modifiy the AP (s) w/ a PI "Stay Wider". And THEN you can get what you want

[JWVG]

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[tmpnd]

How the ME interacts with contradictory instructions with PPMs, like a winger that has the Cuts Inside PPM or a deep-lying playmaker that has the Gets Forward Whenever Possible PPM?

Will they do some sort of 50-50 or is there some form of hierarchy?

[Lohaller]

Do you have a u20 or u18 manager? Look in the staff responsibilities and make sure you're in-charge of them.

I have responsibilitie over everything. Now the training workload is sitting at medium, however looking at individual training everyone have a heavy intensity without any typ of extra training, ppm or positional training.

Starting to believe this must be a bug ?

[wkdsoul]

is strength related to shoots with power?

we have contradicting info all over the forum,

[Dr. Hook]

How the ME interacts with contradictory instructions with PPMs, like a winger that has the Cuts Inside PPM or a deep-lying playmaker that has the Gets Forward Whenever Possible PPM?

Will they do some sort of 50-50 or is there some form of hierarchy?

The hierarchy is that the PPM will always take precedence as it is a tendency for the player regardless of what else is instructed. It doesn't mean that he'll always evade your instructions, but there will be many times where it will be the case.

[Dr. Hook]

is strength related to shoots with power?

we have contradicting info all over the forum,

There is contradicting info and I don't have a firm answer for you at the moment, except to say I have seen low strength players develop the PPM. Hopefully someone that knows for sure will chime in, but if not, I'll try to find out.

[Cleon]

is strength related to shoots with power?

we have contradicting info all over the forum,

Players can have any PPM regardless of their attributes. However for this PPM to be really successful and useful then ofc the player needs a decent strength rating to profit from it. But to learn it, he doesn't need high attribute.

[woland]

Hello everyone.

What tactical familiarity has opposition in friendly games in very first season?

[Cam NBH]

I know its not the right thread but i cant find the relevant one and have asked in the club thread already, apologies. Does anyone have problems selling players? I cant sell players for their value. Walcott and Giroud valued at around 28m but when i try to sell them i only get offers around 14m. I have had the chat and told them i no longer need them and they say they want to go but the offers are still way below their value. Can anyone help with this please? Thx

[Cleon]

Hello everyone.

What tactical familiarity has opposition in friendly games in very first season?

They have to build it up like the user does.

I know its not the right thread but i cant find the relevant one and have asked in the club thread already, apologies. Does anyone have problems selling players? I cant sell players for their value. Walcott and Giroud valued at around 28m but when i try to sell them i only get offers around 14m. I have had the chat and told them i no longer need them and they say they want to go but the offers are still way below their value. Can anyone help with this please? Thx

You know its not the right thread but still asked anyway. It's the wrong forum complete. Please use the thread for questions that are related to either tactics or training. All other questions will be deleted/removed/ignored.

[sjewitt]

does target man attract the ball like playmakers, i was using one in my first season and it seemed to make a difference to how we played basically 90% of my goals scored when i used a TM where from crosses now it's alot less.

[Cleon]

does target man attract the ball like playmakers, i was using one in my first season and it seemed to make a difference to how we played basically 90% of my goals scored when i used a TM where from crosses now it's alot less.

Yes it has hard-coded behaviors that make the players look for them more.

[bdixon]

Is there anywhere to see in FM16 what each training effects what attributes? I'm sure in previous games in the training screen you could see that ball control focused on first touch, dribbling. Where as fitness effect stamina, strength etc.

[Cleon]

Is there anywhere to see in FM16 what each training effects what attributes? I'm sure in previous games in the training screen you could see that ball control focused on first touch, dribbling. Where as fitness effect stamina, strength etc.

I don't think it tells you but it's still the same as previous versions so it's;

• Fitness : Acceleration, Agility,Balance, Jumping, Natural Fitness, Pace, Stamina, Strength, Workrate
  
• Tactics: Anticipation, Composure, Concentration, Decisions, Teamwork
  
• Ball Control: Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Technique, Flair
  
• Defending: Marking, Tackling, Positioning
  
• Attacking: Crossing, Finishing, Long Shots, Passing, Creativity, Off the ball
  

[bdixon]

I don't think it tells you but it's still the same as previous versions so it's;

• Fitness : Acceleration, Agility,Balance, Jumping, Natural Fitness, Pace, Stamina, Strength, Workrate
  
• Tactics: Anticipation, Composure, Concentration, Decisions, Teamwork
  
• Ball Control: Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Technique, Flair
  
• Defending: Marking, Tackling, Positioning
  
• Attacking: Crossing, Finishing, Long Shots, Passing, Creativity, Off the ball
  

Cheers Cleon, can never remember them all. Was useful when it showed in-game.

[JWVG]

Why has the "Control" mentality a higher line (visually in the TC) than the "Attacking" mentality when I select "higher defensive line"? I don't get it...

[HUNT3R]

Why has the "Control" mentality a higher line (visually in the TC) than the "Attacking" mentality when I select "higher defensive line"? I don't get it...

It's just a visual quirk. It definitely isn't higher at all.

[JWVG]

It's just a visual quirk. It definitely isn't higher at all.

OK, thanks!

[hazzap123]

when bringing youngsters through the youth that are not ready to play will loaning them out be just as good? or will giving them first hand experience in your team benefit them more e.g harry winks hes not first team quality for spurs but would it benefit to keep him in and use him occasionally, but would he benefit more from playing in top tier football rather than lower league football only less ofter?

[Cleon]

when bringing youngsters through the youth that are not ready to play will loaning them out be just as good? or will giving them first hand experience in your team benefit them more e.g harry winks hes not first team quality for spurs but would it benefit to keep him in and use him occasionally, but would he benefit more from playing in top tier football rather than lower league football only less ofter?

Top tier football is better and if you keep him at the club, you can make sure he develops the attributes you need, give him a good personality and ensure he has the PPM's you want him to have. Loaning him out you lose all of that but he gains playing time. I'd personally never loan them out and would rather than mould them into the players I want while giving them game time at my current club regardless of how strong/weak I might be.

[Marc.Foster050]

Top tier football is better and if you keep him at the club, you can make sure he develops the attributes you need, give him a good personality and ensure he has the PPM's you want him to have. Loaning him out you lose all of that but he gains playing time. I'd personally never loan them out and would rather than mould them into the players I want while giving them game time at my current club regardless of how strong/weak I might be.

Hi Cleon. I have always thought this is the better way to do things but it never seems to work out how i think it will. But when i send players out on Loan they suddenly turn better in a season without me really realising it. I try to give training instructions and mould players but is it just about giving them game time that is the ultimate gain for youngsters. I'll give an example. I had a player at Maidstone when i got to the premiership. Never noticed him, played in my u18 and i loaned him out as didn't give him a chance to get into my first team. Two years at Cardiff later and he's the best english winger (doesn't say much) and only 20 so i play him in the first team and 3 years later he's in the world team of the year.

On the other hand i have a player now at Arsenal. Scouts say he could be 5 stars (4 1/2 with half shaded) and stats for a 16 year old are incredible. So i think i'll keep him and try and mould him into the player i want him to be as i have Pogba and see him as the perfect replacement. Got Pogba tutoring him, have him training with the first team with coaches that are good with youngsters, try not to overwork him and i play him in all cup games and against lesser champions league teams. He also plays the end of games i am comfortably winning and in my u21 team so gets a lot of game time. And when he plays he plays quite well to be fair to him. Only problem is this has been going on for 3 years now and attribute wise he has hardly developed. Is there something i am missing as players I have sent on loan have developed nicely but my coaching team and level of football is surely better than those at championship level? I know attributes aren't the be all and end all but it is good to see a player you like develop nicely. Just wondering if there is anything you might know of that can help develop a players overall attributes quicker or at all for that matter?