A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[Wakers]

Yep. The same as others who have said "they won't buy FM12 because you have to use Steam" x 100

*edited*

I think you'll find that lots of people have said that once, not the same person saying it hundreds of times.

[themadsheep2001]

I can live with the idea of being forced to use a software I don't trust, but possibly having to move country to play the game is a completely different matter

Where do you live?

[swirlypop69]

It is a reason. Do you like marmite. I don't and I havent tasted it just don't like the look of it.

I don't like Preston North End, please remove them from the game SI.

[Wakers]

I don't like Preston North End, please remove them from the game SI.

Brilliant. Such insight. What a valid point.

[swirlypop69]

As valid as yours? Which was my point in the first place.

[Smurf]

I think you'll find that lots of people have said that once, not the same person saying it hundreds of times.

So you're saying I can't repeat my opinion because you personally have read it before.

Regardless that others new to the discussion might not have read all the posts in the thread?

[Wakers]

That doens't mean you need to post it twice on every page.

[Keyzer Soze]

lol you tell me not to talk down to people and then do the same to me, hypocrisy must be alright then. QQing was just easier to write.

I have read a lot of this thread, most people either seem to be afraid by change, misinformed, or just determined to kick up a fuss because SI did something without asking them first.

But why do you care if people like, or not, steam? Or why do you care if people will stop buying FM because of steam? It's their decision!

SI/SEGA made a decision, and they have all the right to do it, to implement steam as a activation method.

Now the users have all the right to decide, or not, to buy the game! I dont see any problem with all the process.

As long as SI/SEGA state in the box that steam will be needed, and that a internet conection will be needed to activate the game, then everything is fine.

I've been reading this thread again, also some of my own posts, and sometimes people get a little carry away...

I mean, it's SI/SEGA game, so they have all the right to decide what to do with it! As long as they inform all the potential buyers, which they will, what the problem?

At the end, its a simple decision to buy or not to buy the game? If it's because steam, or because you dont like the new features, or because your PC it's crap and dont run the game, at the end it's always a simple decision... buy or not!

And i dont think that anyone as to justify!

I will buy it! With or without steam! Others will do something different! End of story!

[swirlypop69]

But why do you care if people like, or not, steam? Or why do you care if people will stop buying FM because of steam? It's their decision!

SI/SEGA made a decision, and they have all the right to do it, to implement steam as a activation method.

Now the users have all the right to decide, or not, to buy the game! I dont see any problem with all the process.

As long as SI/SEGA state in the box that steam will be needed, and that a internet conection will be needed to activate the game, then everything is fine.

I've been reading this thread again, also some of my own posts, and sometimes people get a little carry away...

I mean, it's SI/SEGA game, so they have all the right to decide what to do with it! As long as they inform all the potential buyers, wich they will, what the problem?

At the end, its a simple decision to buy or not to buy the game? If it's because steam, or because you dont like the new features, or because your PC it's crap and dont run the game, at the end it's always a simple decision... buy or not!

And i dont think that anyone as to justify!

I will buy it! With or without steam! Others will do something different! End of story!

I don't care if people like it or not, I just don't think that's a valid reason not to buy the game.

Otherwise, nice post

[Keyzer Soze]

I don't care if people like it or not, I just don't think that's a valid reason not to buy the game.

Otherwise, nice post

You have every right to think that it's not a valid reason, but you must respect those who think it's a valid one!

[milnerpoint]

Ah Keyzer the nice voice of reason

[Smurf]

Exactly Keyser.

Nothing is going to change that for FM12. Unless there's a serious drop in sales. FM12 will need Steam and Internet.

It's not a hard decision, as Keyser points out.

I hope it works out for SI and Sega and that sales are good and plentiful to continue producing the game.

I'm willing to go the Steam route, not entirely happy about it. But it's the way it is. I'll do it for FM12. Because I want to play the game. Regardless of any hoops I have to jump through. And if these hoops mean less piracy then I'm down with that.

Again, I work in an industry where pirating software is destroying the trade. And I'm all for anti-piracy techniques and I applaud and support SI and Sega for taking steps to try make it better for their industry.

[swirlypop69]

They could expand a bit more on it is all I ask, give a why and then people can respond to it, as has been happening in some cases. Most of it seems to be out of misinformation and just the general love of forum users for a good whine. Stating "I don't like it" is about as useful as most of my posts!

[Keyzer Soze]

the only problem i've seen so far, is that there is a lot of bad information about steam, the activation process, the patching process, etc etc

And if there is people who have made up their mind, some are still trying to decide.

And in some degree, this thread is not being very helpfull, in some cases quite the opposite.

It's had been mention before by many users, SI should create a new thread with some FAQ, and with one or two mods (that really understand the steam process) to help everybody making the best personal decision!

[milnerpoint]

They could expand a bit more on it is all I ask, give a why and then people can respond to it, as has been happening in some cases. Most of it seems to be out of misinformation and just the general love of forum users for a good whine. Stating "I don't like it" is about as useful as most of my posts!

We have been through it all, i think Kezyer is right, we might think they are wrong, but it is their choice and you have to respect that. All the info about steam is out there, if anyone decides to change their mind, but i dont think anyone in this thread will be won over in a hurry.

[Smurf]

It's had been mention before by many users, SI should create a new thread with some FAQ, and with one or two mods (that really understand the steam process) to help everybody making the best personal decision!

It's something I mentioned from the start. I saw a rake of things about Steam that didn't seem right to me. A mod/forum head guy said they would look into doing something like that? Not sure how far along they've gotten or if they even will?

Anyway it would be great to have a topic about Steam with all those FAQ answered thoroughly.

[Keyzer Soze]

It's something I mentioned from the start. I saw a rake of things about Steam that didn't seem right to me. A mod/forum head guy said they would look into doing something like that? Not sure how far along they've gotten or if they even will?

Anyway it would be great to have a topic about Steam with all those FAQ answered thoroughly.

I know you did Eugene. And sooner the better! I think SI should do this... yesterday! It's for their own interest!

[swirlypop69]

SI barely even need to create an FAQ, the majority of information they can just lift from the Steam Support section (for example, a how to for offline mode). Should be easy enough!

[Smurf]

There were some things I thought I knew about Steam, but obviously I was wrong. I didn't help matters giving my opinion on things where I had it wrong.

I think SI have stopped looking at this thread now, imo (not fact)?

[jptykes]

I really don't get the Steam bashing, it's generally a great product. I pretty much only buy games via Steam now - if it ain't on Steam, I'm unlikely to buy it.

And that's all well and good for YOU and other people who have no issues with Steam. But from my experience your post would look more like this...

I fully understand Steam bashing, it's generally caused me problems and I have issues with many of Steam's principles. I avoid buying games via Steam now - if it's only available on Steam, I'm unlikely to buy it.

It seems that this is an issue that is pretty much polarising opinion to one extreme or the other - love or hate. There seems to very little middle ground.

[swirlypop69]

I'm surprised they didn't at least link to Steam website. Would give people a chance to actually look at the program and get to grips with it in advance and remove some of the fear of the unknown. They also have a fairly comprehensive Support section where I'm sure people could find out answers to most of their questions whilst the mods, or whoever, reword some of it to make it more FM specific.

[afced7]

It is a reason. Do you like marmite. I don't and I havent tasted it just don't like the look of it.

Bet you don't go wittering on about not liking it to the makers though.

[Guest]

SI barely even need to create an FAQ, the majority of information they can just lift from the Steam Support section (for example, a how to for offline mode). Should be easy enough!

Reading that link it suggests that the game must have the latest patch installed, am I reading it correctly?

In the past I've seen people mention that they do not play FM with the latest patch.

[Keyzer Soze]

SI barely even need to create an FAQ, the majority of information they can just lift from the Steam Support section (for example, a how to for offline mode). Should be easy enough!

This may be true, but the large majority of the people here are FM users... not Steam users.

I would like to see a FAQ specific for FM.

Simple things like... would the steam instalation file be on the disk? do we need to install it, or will it be automatically installed?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Well if people don't want to use Steam they are out of luck.

That's what is required to play FM12. If you buy FM12 you'll need to have Steam and internet connection.

Otherwise don't buy it.

No amount of posts here will change their minds now. One can only hope that their sales are hit hard and they may rethink it.

However, I will be buying it. I look forward to playing the game. Steam use doesn't bother me.

People who have concerns about this method of activation have come here asking for advice or information, it is not going to help them to make their decision if the advice or information offered is incorrect, half true, or biased for/against one company or another. I would say that anyone who posts they are ok with Steam, who answer peoples questions, should be more careful that their answers are based on fact, as they are more likely to be believed than a Steam knocker.

And please don't take this as a titfortat, us/them thing. I have said nothing against Steam, I have never used Steam and therefore can't answer these questions. I would just like the people who can to check their facts before they do.

So you're saying I can't repeat my opinion because you personally have read it before.

Regardless that others new to the discussion might not have read all the posts in the thread?

Of course you are free to express your opinion, and repeat it as long as the moderators allow, just be aware how unhelpful it is to answer peoples queries based on your opinion rather than facts.

EDIT; Just seen post #2269 after already posting the above.

[afced7]

There were some things I thought I knew about Steam, but obviously I was wrong. I didn't help matters giving my opinion on things where I had it wrong.

I think SI have stopped looking at this thread now, imo (not fact)?

I'd assume so, they made their position clear, not much point in commenting on this argument which looked like it was dying out but just keeps going round and round in circles

[milnerpoint]

Reading that link it suggests that the game must have the latest patch installed, am I reading it correctly?

In the past I've seen people mention that they do not play FM with the latest patch.

no you must have steam updated i think is what it is getting at, there is no need for FM to be updated, but you cannot choose which patch to use

[Matt_no_7]

But why do you care if people like, or not, steam? Or why do you care if people will stop buying FM because of steam? It's their decision!

SI/SEGA made a decision, and they have all the right to do it, to implement steam as a activation method.

Now the users have all the right to decide, or not, to buy the game! I dont see any problem with all the process.

As long as SI/SEGA state in the box that steam will be needed, and that a internet conection will be needed to activate the game, then everything is fine.

I've been reading this thread again, also some of my own posts, and sometimes people get a little carry away...

I mean, it's SI/SEGA game, so they have all the right to decide what to do with it! As long as they inform all the potential buyers, which they will, what the problem?

At the end, its a simple decision to buy or not to buy the game? If it's because steam, or because you dont like the new features, or because your PC it's crap and dont run the game, at the end it's always a simple decision... buy or not!

And i dont think that anyone as to justify!

I will buy it! With or without steam! Others will do something different! End of story!

Most have no problem activating the game. The problem lies in the fact we have to keep Steam AFTER activation when we have no need or want for it. As i've said previously, i reckon 90% of people would be all for an "Activate/Delete." option.

Give people options and they will be happy as more often than not everyone will find a method or option that suits them best.

Take those options away and you stir the hornets nest.

If SI/Sega were honestly thinking about this say.... 2 months AFTER FM11 was released then they had ample time to look at the options but also consult with us, ask for our opinions, give us a poll on possible options that were being looked at. By not doing this they haven't taken away options but denied us the chance to perhaps create options.

Ford decide to sell cars in just one colour.... Pink. How would that affect sales? Ford have every right to do it, but is it smart to do it?

Same applies here, we only have two options. Buy with Steam or don't. Some won't buy it, some will but in the end help us and help yourselves.

Some people may want to keep Steam and buy more games from them.

>Others will want to use Steam to activate and then get rid of it.<

Others won't use Steam at all, even for activation and won't buy the game.

By adding that middle option you give people a choice to use SI/Sega's chosen method of activation but then remove it once we have showed that we have bought this game through legal means and that we are loyal and honest customers.

Innocent until proven guilty. Let us prove our innocence by activating but don't punish us as if we are guilty afterwards by forcing us to continue to use Steam.

[eddymunster]

Bet you don't go wittering on about not liking it to the makers though.

Ye and no one is forcing it on him like SI are with steam.

[Guest]

no you must have steam updated i think is what it is getting at, there is no need for FM to be updated, but you cannot choose which patch to use

If that's the case then it is a little vague, by referring to needing the game files updated I would read that as indicated that to play FM11 offline it must be running on 11.3.

[milnerpoint]

hahahahahaha brilliant the car analogies are back, where is Kriss???!!

[swirlypop69]

Reading that link it suggests that the game must have the latest patch installed, am I reading it correctly?

In the past I've seen people mention that they do not play FM with the latest patch.

Not necessarily. You could turn Automatic updates off and it should still work in offline mode. Or if you only use Steam for FM then once you've activated it, and set it up correctly, then you need never go in Online mode again and can play unpatched. As is my understanding.

Please note that you must connect to the Steam Network and test each of the games you would like to use in Offline Mode at least once to set up your account and configure Offline Mode on your machine.

Once your account is set up and you have activated FM12 then you need never go online with Steam again (unless you change your mind and want the patches )

[milnerpoint]

If that's the case then it is a little vague, by referring to needing the game files updated I would read that as indicated that to play FM11 offline it must be running on 11.3.

you could have read this bit"

Offline Mode allows you to play games through Steam without reconnecting to the Steam Network every time you wish to play - this is particularly useful if you do not plan on playing over the internet and would prefer not to download new updates for your single-player games."

which would hopefully have answered your question

[Keyzer Soze]

Reading that link it suggests that the game must have the latest patch installed, am I reading it correctly?

In the past I've seen people mention that they do not play FM with the latest patch.

from what I understand ... and I'm not sure i'm:

a) Steam will always download and install the latest game patch unless:

a.1) you have steam set as offline

a.2) you set, in preferences of your steam acount, to not update automatically.

So, if this is right, you can play the game without the lastest patch. When you decide that it's time to install the patch, you undo "a.1" or "a.2" and automatically the patch is download and install!

[afced7]

Ye and no one is forcing it on him like SI are with steam.

He has the choice not to buy it, same as he does with any product. They aren't forcing anything on anybody. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

[swirlypop69]

I wish a mod would at least update the first post with this URL!

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_cat.php?id=3

As it seems to take them forever to write an FAQ!

[Guest]

hahahahahaha brilliant the car analogies are back, where is Kriss???!!

Isn't that an instant ban?

After installing Steam & after 3 days finally getting access to my dormant account I do see one huge upside that could lead to advances in FM that I would like to see, 64bit dedicated coding if the numbers stack up & a faster push to improved graphics & interface if again the hardware figures suggest that the majority of FM owners could support a rapid improvement.

I still have concerns but will be assessing them over the coming months as I did not intend to by FM12 until Jan/February anyway.

[Guest]

from what I understand ... and I'm not sure i'm:

So, if this is right, you can play the game without the lastest patch. When you decide that it's time to install the patch, you undo "a.1" or "a.2" and automatically the patch is download and install!

But someone could not go back to 12.2 if they found something they didn't like in the ME of 12.3, this would never be a problem for me as I always play with the latest patch installed.

[CaptainPlanet]

from what I understand ... and I'm not sure i'm:

a) Steam will always download and install the latest game patch unless:

a.1) you have steam set as offline

a.2) you set, in preferences of your steam acount, to not update automatically.

So, if this is right, you can play the game without the lastest patch. When you decide that it's time to install the patch, you undo "a.1" or "a.2" and automatically the patch is download and install!

I believe you cannot select which patch you want the game to stop at if you are updating the game. So if you're playing 12.0 and the latest version is 12.2, you cannot install the game from scratch and update to 12.1, you can either stay at 12.0 or upgrade to 12.2.

[milnerpoint]

Isn't that an instant ban?

After installing Steam & after 3 days finally getting access to my dormant account I do see one huge upside that could lead to advances in FM that I would like to see, 64bit dedicated coding if the numbers stack up & a faster push to improved graphics & interface if again the hardware figures suggest that the majority of FM owners could support a rapid improvement.

I still have concerns but will be assessing them over the coming months as I did not intend to by FM12 until Jan/February anyway.

Ah if only, was it yourself involved in that convo? It appears everything to do with FM, can be compared to anything to do with a car, its brilliant really.

Yeah best bet mate, wait it out, see what the feedback is like, if you were planning to buy in Jan anyway you have nothing to lose!! You should download steam tho and give it a few weeks, you can browse and download a few free games, or cheap ones, work with it, set it offline and see how you get on, keep it online, everything possible, and obviously if you dont like it you dont like it.

[OlieIsArsenal]

The Main problem is definitely the fact steam has to remain on your drive, is there a possibility of activation then removing the software used but remembering the honest players who have done this but un-installed?

[Smurf]

Nope. Steam must be running.

[milnerpoint]

steam cannot be removed if you want to play FM. It must be there to unlock the game every time you want to play it.

[CaptainPlanet]

The Main problem is definitely the fact steam has to remain on your drive, is there a possibility of activation then removing the software used but remembering the honest players who have done this but un-installed?

Can I ask what you reason is for not wanting Steam installed after activation?

[jjglvz]

If Steam is going to stop piracy, and if 80% of FM's in use are pirated, does that mean the game will be 20% of the price this year?

[Keyzer Soze]

Most have no problem activating the game. The problem lies in the fact we have to keep Steam AFTER activation when we have no need or want for it. As i've said previously, i reckon 90% of people would be all for an "Activate/Delete." option.

Give people options and they will be happy as more often than not everyone will find a method or option that suits them best.

Take those options away and you stir the hornets nest.

If SI/Sega were honestly thinking about this say.... 2 months AFTER FM11 was released then they had ample time to look at the options but also consult with us, ask for our opinions, give us a poll on possible options that were being looked at. By not doing this they haven't taken away options but denied us the chance to perhaps create options.

Ford decide to sell cars in just one colour.... Pink. How would that affect sales? Ford have every right to do it, but is it smart to do it?

Same applies here, we only have two options. Buy with Steam or don't. Some won't buy it, some will but in the end help us and help yourselves.

Some people may want to keep Steam and buy more games from them.

>Others will want to use Steam to activate and then get rid of it.<

Others won't use Steam at all, even for activation and won't buy the game.

By adding that middle option you give people a choice to use SI/Sega's chosen method of activation but then remove it once we have showed that we have bought this game through legal means and that we are loyal and honest customers.

Innocent until proven guilty. Let us prove our innocence by activating but don't punish us as if we are guilty afterwards by forcing us to continue to use Steam.

I think we're all adults and intelligent and we know why steam cant be delete after the activation is complete: Commercial Business!

Of course that steam system must have to keep on your computer, as it can get at medium or long term more customers, sell more games. its business! are the rules of the game!

Nothing is made without money in this world, i'm pretty sure that SI/SEGA receives money from steam for using them to activate the game. It makes sence that things happen like that. Steam needs to attract more costumers, SI/SEGA need money to continue making FM.

I really dont think the SI/SEGA are cheating FM users with this. They ate defending their business, as we all do.

They will only be cheating, if they didn't tell us, and you would only found out that you need steam to activate the game, when you arrive home and install the game. But that's not the case. They inform us, so we have all the info we need to decide if we want to buy or not.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

hahahahahaha brilliant the car analogies are back, where is Kriss???!!

Yeah, sesame seed buns are much better.

[Keyzer Soze]

I believe you cannot select which patch you want the game to stop at if you are updating the game. So if you're playing 12.0 and the latest version is 12.2, you cannot install the game from scratch and update to 12.1, you can either stay at 12.0 or upgrade to 12.2.

Yes, i think that you ate right! it's the latest patch, or no patch at all!

Perhaps this could be something that SI/SEGA could negotiate with steam, in order to have available not only the latest patch, but also previous one.

[Guest]

Nothing is made without made in this world, i'm pretty sure that SI/SEGA receives money from steam for using them to activate the game. It makes sence that things happen like that. Steam needs to attract more costumers, SI/SEGA need money to continue making FM.

Actually from a commercial point of view Sega should pay Steam for use of the activation service, the service provider would have to assume that a number of people registering to activate a title will not venture anywhere near their download store so they are just taking up space with no potential revenue.

[Smurf]

Didn't SI or someone from Sega say already that no money was exchanged between Steam?