milnerpoint Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Again, checking the steam forums shows that offline mode does not work all the time for everybody. You should accept that people have different experiences. Personally, I've been using Steam on and off since it was released. Offline mode has improved a lot since it was first introduced, but its still by no means perfect for everybody that uses it.Sorry that it doesn't coincide with you and your friends' experiences. If you swap between online and offline, your steam client will be queued to receive any update. If you go back into offline mode before the update begins, offline mode won't let you play any games. This is what happened to me this past weekend with Deus Ex. On Sunday evening, I was unable to play 3/5 games because they needed to be updated. However, the network was apparently having problems pushing out the updates, so my client was in the queue, but not downloading (nor telling me that the games needed updating). This was with Borderlands, Magic the Gathering and Deus Ex. Once the games had updated the following morning, they worked again. I can fully accept that, but posting that steam requires you to re-connect after 30 days is miles off the mark, and does nothing buy scare people, its simply not the case at all. We should surely be using this thread to help people understand steam rather than pointing out any issues people have had with it constantly, like i said my windows has had to be re-installed twice in the past year but no one is saying i should ditch it. Again this is happening guys, like it or not. We should use this thread to educate and help people not just bad mouth steam constantly. Your prob right about the swtiching between on and off line mode, but if you dont have the net then it will never be an issue, it cannot quie updates if it does not know they exist, and if you didnt have the net there would be no reason to ever switch to online mode, if you come under neither of those brackets you should never really have a problem, steam updates on the best part are very quick because they have fantastic servers. There is the chance it might not work first time, much like an FM patch, or windows update, but thats software really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I agree. Number 4 on the troubleshooting list https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=1456-EUDN-2493 is very interesting when you consider what programs might interfere with Steam. https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=9828-SFLZ-9289 going trough that list.... it would be simpler do make a list of programs that had no problem with steam! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aaron70 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I was going say you can buy paradox games through steam, seems like the worlds best game company is conspiring with the devil (joke) I know it was a joke...but Paradox give options. Steam is not the devil here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I can fully accept that, but posting that steam requires you to re-connect after 30 days is miles off the mark, and does nothing buy scare people, its simply not the case at all. We should surely be using this thread to help people understand steam rather than pointing out any issues people have had with it constantly, like i said my windows has had to be re-installed twice in the past year but no one is saying i should ditch it. Again this is happening guys, like it or not. We should use this thread to educate and help people not just bad mouth steam constantly. I couldn't agree more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddymunster Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Am I the only one that doesn't understand why someone who objects to third party software would then use a torrent client from a third party and entrust the security of their system to a hacked game? I don't think there are many people that will get a pirated copy because of steam, they'll just do without. Very few people have suggested otherwise. I did in jest, which I clarified about 2 posts later. What I am suggesting is that people who don't pay for the game will still find a way not to pay for it. It's just the way SI/SEGA seem to be representing Steam as some great method of combating piracy, when it isn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kymsheba Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Don't they put tracking codes into the software? I know some softwares do. And it states that information such as computer, hardware, location etc. for possible false registration key will be transmitted to a website and they can then sort those by country and the amount of people. Of course that is an estimate, as not everyone would be online. But it's one possible way. There is no way you can get an accurate number without physically checking every houshold in the world for pirated software, don't foget most people get an illegal copy then make copies for friends etc... so those people have never gone on the net to download a pirated version and not everyone has internet access.cheers, kymsheba Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I guess that'd be right Kriss, yes. Regarding Paradox selling games on Steam - yes they do (its the only reason I've heard of them tbh), and the only thing of note they said was that DRM does not increase their sales. Regardless of whether or not they use Steam, that is what they said after doing their own research. That's the only issue I wanted to raise from reading what someone else posted about them earlier in the thread, it directly contradicts what Sega say. I'm more inclined to side with a company that has a decent reputation than Sega, which doesn't. They use Steam because its the biggest digital distribution network going. If they don't have to pay for Steam's activation, then I guess they would use it anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 For every lock that is made, there is someone that can pick that lock. Same goes with piracy of software. The more sophisticated they make it, the more someone will want to and will crack it. Which begs the question why they even bothered with this? People that want to pirate it will pirate it. And people that want to buy it will. And the people that don't want to buy it or pirate it won't. I can't see it changing much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 How do you quantify the unquantifiable? If SI released a version with no DRM at all, how would they know if their sales volumes were affected by that any more than the quality of the game itself? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 There is no way you can get an accurate number without physically checking every houshold in the world for pirated software, don't foget most people get an illegal copy then make copies for friends etc... so those people have never gone on the net to download a pirated version and not everyone has internet access.cheers, kymsheba Pretty much the point I made. Thanks for rewriting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenone Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 See this thread here stating that they sell more copies of their games on Steam then all the other sources. I haven't bought one of their games off Steam but I assume you have to run Steam to play them just like every other game on Steam. So they are more then happy to use Steam, they obviously feel that it is a form of DRM that offers paying customers extra value completely invalidating your arguement.But you have the choice! I have numerous paradox games all lined up on a shelf next to all the previous editions of champ/football manager. The difference is that the paradox compilation will be added to because they treat me like an adult where as the champ/football manager compilation will go the same way as the total war one after they tried to force steam on me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kymsheba Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I don't think there are many people that will get a pirated copy because of steam, they'll just do without. Very few people have suggested otherwise. I did in jest, which I clarified about 2 posts later. What I am suggesting is that people who don't pay for the game will still find a way not to pay for it. It's just the way SI/SEGA seem to be representing Steam as some great method of combating piracy, when it isn't. i agree with you that is my biggest issue with SI/SEGA saying they done this as a way of combatting piracy which it is not.cheers, kymsheba Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I can fully accept that, but posting that steam requires you to re-connect after 30 days is miles off the mark, and does nothing buy scare people, its simply not the case at all. We should surely be using this thread to help people understand steam rather than pointing out any issues people have had with it constantly, like i said my windows has had to be re-installed twice in the past year but no one is saying i should ditch it. Again this is happening guys, like it or not. We should use this thread to educate and help people not just bad mouth steam constantly. Your prob right about the swtiching between on and off line mode, but if you dont have the net then it will never be an issue, it cannot quie updates if it does not know they exist, and if you didnt have the net there would be no reason to ever switch to online mode, if you come under neither of those brackets you should never really have a problem, steam updates on the best part are very quick because they have fantastic servers. There is the chance it might not work first time, much like an FM patch, or windows update, but thats software really. To be honest, I never said that it did that for certain, I said "apparently" which should be quite indicative that I was not certain, but had suspicions through my own use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Which begs the question why they even bothered with this? People that want to pirate it will pirate it. And people that want to buy it will. And the people that don't want to buy it or pirate it won't. I can't see it changing much. You can say that about any crime though, why constantly increase security at airports, if a terrorist wants to get on board with a bomb he'll make it happen. That doesn't mean anyone should give in and let the bad guys win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddymunster Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 You can say that about any crime though, why constantly increase security at airports, if a terrorist wants to get on board with a bomb he'll make it happen. That doesn't mean anyone should give in and let the bad guys win. I honestly can't tell if you're being serious with this. Comparing piracy with terrorism is absolutely beyond ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 i agree with you that is my biggest issue with SI/SEGA saying they done this as a way of combatting piracy which it is not.cheers, kymsheba I honestly think there would be infinitely less unhappiness in this thread if SI/SEGA had just done a press release saying "we've gone with Steam to make us loads of money!" and left the piracy justification out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I really think they should bring back those "kit wheels" that they used in Premier Manager games for the Amiga Or the great big manual that you had to use for Sid Meire's Grand Prix to find the right word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I honestly can't tell if you're being serious with this. Comparing piracy with terrorism is absolutely beyond ridiculous. If someone wants to break in to a house to steal a laptop they'll do it, regardless of if there's a window in the way. Happier now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 i agree with you that is my biggest issue with SI/SEGA saying they done this as a way of combatting piracy which it is not.cheers, kymsheba It's combating btw and mine was a typo;) if you read what Miles posted very carefully you'll see a distinction between combating piracy and preventing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 If someone wants to break in to a house to steal a laptop they'll do it, regardless of if there's a window in the way.Happier now? No, it's still a daft analogy. You're only not talking about cars because Kriss will make fun of you for it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 To be honest, I never said that it did that for certain, I said "apparently" which should be quite indicative that I was not certain, but had suspicions through my own use. Well the way i read your post, and yes it prob is my mistake, was that you have experienced that steam needs to go online every 30 days, the fact you provided a number of days as well suggested you had information to that extent, now if i was a first time steam user, with no experience of the program and was worried about my net access that would have put me right off but the reality is its not true. Like i say lets help people with steam especially first timers, because they are going to need it if they want to play FM12, spreading rumors or false facts are not helping this situation at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I really think they should bring back those "kit wheels" that they used in Premier Manager games for the Amiga Or the great big manual that you had to use for Sid Meire's Grand Prix to find the right word. Railroad Tycoon 1 when you had to pick the right train from a picture:D got any train analogies btw? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddymunster Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 If someone wants to break in to a house to steal a laptop they'll do it, regardless of if there's a window in the way.Happier now? Marginally. But the fear of getting caught is what will put people off, not making it marginally more difficult. If you want to stop piracy people who do it need to be caught and prosecuted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I honestly can't tell if you're being serious with this. Comparing piracy with terrorism is absolutely beyond ridiculous. we've had various car analogies, someone compared this to Tony Blair sending us to war, why the hell not compare it to terrorism??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Or the great big manual that you had to use for Sid Meire's Grand Prix to find the right word. god i remember that book!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Well the way i read your post, and yes it prob is my mistake, was that you have experienced that steam needs to go online every 30 days, the fact you provided a number of days as well suggested you had information to that extent, now if i was a first time steam user, with no experience of the program and was worried about my net access that would have put me right off but the reality is its not true.Like i say lets help people with steam especially first timers, because they are going to need it if they want to play FM12, spreading rumors or false facts are not helping this situation at all. I agree with you, and I was probably wrong to put a number on it, it would have been better if I said something like "once a month or so" - because honestly, that's what seems to happen to me when I use offline mode (and granted, I don't use it that much, just the odd day or for an hour the odd day - which again probably doesn't help its stability.) I certainly am making an effort to help others who have concerns with Steam in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kymsheba Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 It's combating btw and mine was a typo;) if you read what Miles posted very carefully you'll see a distinction between combating piracy and preventing it.Well i was right some people really do need an education lol, look the word up on google and then please come back and tell me i spelt it wrong again ... oh please do that. I would love for you to come back and say it again lol.cheers, kymsheba Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Railroad Tycoon 1 when you had to pick the right train from a picture:D got any train analogies btw? Piracy is like sending a train purposefully down the wrong track, just so you can have the track to yourself. How's that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriss Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Marginally. But the fear of getting caught is what will put people off, not making it marginally more difficult.If you want to stop piracy people who do it need to be caught and prosecuted. A bit difficult when it's a government department in China;) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loversleaper Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 we've had various car analogies, someone compared this to Tony Blair sending us to war, why the hell not compare it to terrorism??? Well, if you treat the people like animals they start to act like animals... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I agree with you, and I was probably wrong to put a number on it, it would have been better if I said something like "once a month or so" - because honestly, that's what seems to happen to me when I use offline mode (and granted, I don't use it that much, just the odd day or for an hour the odd day - which again probably doesn't help its stability.)I certainly am making an effort to help others who have concerns with Steam in this thread. Can we both sit down and sing kumbaya now?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Dont you worry yourself pet, stress will only make things worse, if you would like in future ill PM all my posts to your inbox, just incase you miss any of them, i would hate to think of you getting worried because of an online forum post. I wouldn't want to put you to any trouble, or use up the valuable time you need to finish your incomplete post. Thank you for your concern however, but I don't suffer from stress since I started letting off steam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Well i was right some people really do need an education lol, look the word up on google and then please come back and tell me i spelt it wrong again ... oh please do that. I would love for you to come back and say it again lol.cheers, kymsheba http://www.thefreedictionary.com/combating Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladbroke Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I don't have access to the internet except when at work, and when at my sisters. My PC is not equipped to be carried to an internet connection to activate a game. I won't be able to activate the game, so therefore may as well not bother buying. Has Sega and Sports Interactive actually even considered those without the internet? Or do they think everyone has it now? Not everyone can afford the internet. With regards to internet, 99% of them you sign up to a yearly contract, something I can't afford to do right now. Though a game I enjoy(ed) I can afford once a year to play instead if I saved for it. So what do Sega and SI suggest I do then? p.s. if this has been answered in here, I have not seen it as its a really long thread, and not got the time during my lunch hour to read it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I wouldn't want to put you to any trouble, or use up the valuable time you need to finish your incomplete post. Thank you for your concern however, but I don't suffer from stress since I started letting off steam. hahahaha you got me there, letting off steam! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddymunster Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 we've had various car analogies, someone compared this to Tony Blair sending us to war, why the hell not compare it to terrorism??? I'm surprised no-one has compared Steam to Nazi Germany yet to be honest . But there are valid points on here none the less. I don't agree with the "I don't like steam" argument. What I do have an issue with, is being forced to use it and then being told it's to combat piracy. Analogy time (I like this one): Using steam to combat piracy is like building a 1 foot fence around your house and your neighbours house to stop burglars stealing your stuff. Your neighbour says it'll make no difference and he doesn't want to be forced to step over it every day but you do it anyway. When the real motive for building it is because you're mates with the fence building guy and it's mutually beneficial (not to combat burglars ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afced7 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I don't have access to the internet except when at work, and when at my sisters. My PC is not equipped to be carried to an internet connection to activate a game. I won't be able to activate the game, so therefore may as well not bother buying. Has Sega and Sports Interactive actually even considered those without the internet? Or do they think everyone has it now? Not everyone can afford the internet. With regards to internet, 99% of them you sign up to a yearly contract, something I can't afford to do right now. Though a game I enjoy(ed) I can afford once a year to play instead if I saved for it. So what do Sega and SI suggest I do then? p.s. if this has been answered in here, I have not seen it as its a really long thread, and not got the time during my lunch hour to read it all. So you can't spare £3? That's all it takes to buy an hour of BT Openzone, assuming you can use wi-fi. I'm sure they did consider it, but the percentage of people without ANY internet access is likely extremely small. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Marginally. But the fear of getting caught is what will put people off, not making it marginally more difficult.If you want to stop piracy people who do it need to be caught and prosecuted. Well yes, the biggest incentive to stop people breaking the law is for there to be punishment. But that doesn't mean any other way of combating the problem should be ignored. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/combating Wonder how long it'll take before he admits he was wrong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddymunster Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Wonder how long it'll take before he admits he was wrong I will not be forced into using a 3rd party website to check someone elses spelling! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfacemonkeyman Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Am I the only one that doesn't understand why someone who objects to third party software would then use a torrent client from a third party and entrust the security of their system to a hacked game? Apparently not, but what is your point? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I will not be forced into using a 3rd party website to check someone elses spelling! hahahahahahahaha finally we have some banter in this thread, good stuff guys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kymsheba Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 http://www.thefreedictionary.com/combating look at the web page you linked and read along the bold section ... oh look it's the word: combatting!!!! combatting: present participle of com·bat Verb: Take action to reduce, destroy, or prevent (something undesirable). cheers, kymsheba Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddymunster Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 hahahahahahahahafinally we have some banter in this thread, good stuff guys I'm a bit disappointed that no one has congratulated me on my excellent fence analogy to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikeal Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Why don't they just bring back LASERLOK ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdpoo Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Oh, crap. I've been using Steams for years. Yesterday my internet stopped and I decided to see what all the fuss is about. I tried to run FM, got a message from Steam with the option to run in offline mode, which just produced another error message Good thing my connection is super stable, but I wouldn't count on the offline mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loversleaper Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 So you can't spare £3? That's all it takes to buy an hour of BT Openzone, assuming you can use wi-fi. I'm sure they did consider it, but the percentage of people without ANY internet access is likely extremely small. Yeah, because naturally everyone lives in England... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 look at the web page you linked and read along the bold section ... oh look it's the word: combatting!!!!combatting: present participle of com·bat Verb: Take action to reduce, destroy, or prevent (something undesirable). cheers, kymsheba http://www.ctc.usma.edu/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddymunster Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 http://www.ctc.usma.edu/ hahaha very good:lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afced7 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Yeah, because naturally everyone lives in England... And naturally there aren't similar alternatives in other countries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loversleaper Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 And naturally there aren't similar alternatives in other countries. And naturally you've been everywhere to make that assumption... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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