Getting boring now same outcomes over and over

[Delicate Dave]

I confess I don't know if this is a call for help, I've played FM for around 5 years and always notice games have a set number of regular stories. But two are really making FM24 boring to play. It seem at least 75% of the games I play have these two stories - 1 - You dominate the early stages but miss chance after chance. Then the other team scores but you end up winning easy. 2 - You again dominate the game but it more even, you take a 2 or even 3 goal to nil lead. They come back late in the game to draw, even with your player still a lot fresher than theirs. This particular storyline I see most and it can run for 3 game where I take the lead by at least 2 goal but draw all 3. Does anyone have any ideas on the reason?

This is even worse than the regular FM thing of you always lose the 10th game on an unbeaten run if you're playing the bottom team.

 

[crusadertsar]

What do you mean "stories"? Are you suggesting the outcomes are predetermined? I don't think you understand how the game engine works. There has never been any scripting in FM.

Edited February 17 by crusadertsar

[Delicate Dave]

18 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

What do you mean "stories"? Are you suggesting the outcomes are predetermined? I don't think you understand how the game engine works. There has never been any scripting in FM.

I don't think you understand how computer coding works. But I'm not here to teach Computer Science so I apologize, what I mean by the story is how the game plays out. IE you go 2 goals up then draw the game. I'm not changing anything during the time of the score being 2-0 to 2-2 so yes the drew is predetermined based on my choice pre-game, but I don't know why. Could be stamina but that doesn't show on the player at the time. Could it be just the keeper's stamina or concentration? I don't know but the times this is happening in FM24 - I've managed about 12 clubs now - It's annoying and I can't seem to resolve it by the players or tactics.

For those that think they are playing a "live events" let me explain how computer code works in all games (by the way I used to manage computer coders, not an expert in code but know how it works). You as a player are offered choices, this produces actions and then those actions are executed along with existing pre-coded actions. In Football game terms all that FM does is produce a set of different ways games will be won or how many goals will be scored & many other events. At the start of every game yes the result and score are predetermined to the extent that only you making changes during pre-set periods in the game will change that outcome. The pre-set periods are the spaces in actions that have been stored now being processed. You interrupt these when you click pause but the game doesn't re-calculate till the end of a process. That's why you see delays in instructions you offer and why you can't do things like "shout" instantly from the touchline as a real manager can - IE your action choice needs to be processed, calculation re-done and slotted into the preset period.

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, Delicate Dave said:

I don't think you understand how computer coding works. But I'm not here to teach Computer Science so I apologize, what I mean by the story is how the game plays out. IE you go 2 goals up then draw the game. I'm not changing anything during the time of the score being 2-0 to 2-2 so yes the drew is predetermined based on my choice pre-game, but I don't know why. Could be stamina but that doesn't show on the player at the time. Could it be just the keeper's stamina or concentration? I don't know but the times this is happening in FM24 - I've managed about 12 clubs now - It's annoying and I can't seem to resolve it by the players or tactics.

For those that think they are playing a "live events" let me explain how computer code works in all games (by the way I used to manage computer coders, not an expert in code but know how it works). You as a player are offered choices, this produces actions and then those actions are executed along with existing pre-coded actions. In Football game terms all that FM does is produce a set of different ways games will be won or how many goals will be scored & many other events. At the start of every game yes the result and score are predetermined to the extent that only you making changes during pre-set periods in the game will change that outcome. The pre-set periods are the spaces in actions that have been stored now being processed. You interrupt these when you click pause but the game doesn't re-calculate till the end of a process. That's why you see delays in instructions you offer and why you can't do things like "shout" instantly from the touchline as a real manager can - IE your action choice needs to be processed, calculation re-done and slotted into the preset period.

Well if that's the case I don't understand what you are trying to achieve by starting this topic in the tactics section of the forum. You know this forum is for people seeking help for their tactics. 

Do you maybe want to show us your tactic so we can see how we can help you with not getting as many "boring" results?

Edited February 18 by crusadertsar

[Delicate Dave]

3 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Well if that's the case I don't understand what you are trying to achieve by starting this topic in the tactics section of the forum. You know this forum is for people seeking help for their tactics. 

Do you maybe want to show us your tactic so we can see how we can help you with not getting as many "boring" results?

It's always good to get input. The image is my current tactics. The issue was more pronounced when I had a DM. I think the way it is now way I get enough early goals to win the game. This change has taken it from 1-1 & 2-2 results having been 2-0 up, to 3-1, 4-3 & 5-2 results all those with me scoring all my goals before the other team. I think that's odd, don't you? My first thought was energy levels, it normally is that, but this has me foxed. I know it's just a trifling odd thing and perhaps "boring" is the wrong word. But taking the lead and getting pegged back so often is annoying, and makes you change things too much when to find an answer.

I should say I get my fun out of the building from lower leagues using my made-up tactics.   

[lozzny]

hace 5 horas, Delicate Dave dijo:

I don't think you understand how computer coding works. But I'm not here to teach Computer Science so I apologize, what I mean by the story is how the game plays out. IE you go 2 goals up then draw the game. I'm not changing anything during the time of the score being 2-0 to 2-2 so yes the drew is predetermined based on my choice pre-game, but I don't know why. Could be stamina but that doesn't show on the player at the time. Could it be just the keeper's stamina or concentration? I don't know but the times this is happening in FM24 - I've managed about 12 clubs now - It's annoying and I can't seem to resolve it by the players or tactics.

For those that think they are playing a "live events" let me explain how computer code works in all games (by the way I used to manage computer coders, not an expert in code but know how it works). You as a player are offered choices, this produces actions and then those actions are executed along with existing pre-coded actions. In Football game terms all that FM does is produce a set of different ways games will be won or how many goals will be scored & many other events. At the start of every game yes the result and score are predetermined to the extent that only you making changes during pre-set periods in the game will change that outcome. The pre-set periods are the spaces in actions that have been stored now being processed. You interrupt these when you click pause but the game doesn't re-calculate till the end of a process. That's why you see delays in instructions you offer and why you can't do things like "shout" instantly from the touchline as a real manager can - IE your action choice needs to be processed, calculation re-done and slotted into the preset period.

Before discussing tactics, I'd like to acknowledge something first. I'm not a code engineer or anything but I think you're contradicting yourself. It's true that there's a difference between when the ME calculates outcomes and when you see the visual result, but that doesn't invalidate the engine as a representation of football. Comparisons with real life are unfair for obvious reasons, but even if you could narrow the time between calculations to the point a scream was calculated right when you do it, in real life a scream from a manager doesn't necessarily make any difference. However, you seem to believe, to a certain extent, that the outcome is decided before the match even starts. This is not the case. The delay is neither that long nor that simple. Many of the ME inputs are variables that interact with each other. Energy levels, for example, aren't fixed because they depend on how they interact with the physical attributes of the player and how you change your tactics mid-game (focusing play down the wings drains stamina faster in those players, both for you and for the opposition).

Now, talking about tactics themselves:

I am, again, no expert, but I can point out some conceptual failures that may benefit your playstyle:

• The shape you see on the tactics screen is your defensive shape. The roles determine the offensive shape by each player's movement. Currently, you have nobody covering the DMC position, neither in defense nor in attack. Your CBs aren't stepping forward, and your CMs aren't retreating (BWM is a hound dog, he doesn't drop or hold position). This means you are giving away the edge of the area for free, especially when defending.

• You don't have any cover behind the wing-backs, because a NCB won't always be in a position to cover for his partner and the center defense at the same time. This means more through balls behind their backs, more crosses without opposition, and more goals in later stages of the game when your tired players may can't cover that ground fast enough.

• I don't know your players, but a CWB has to be a superb player to do this effectively. The most important are the mentals. They can't be average; they must be outstanding. If not, they will be out of position constantly and fail to perform in later stages of the game.

• Some of your instructions are contradictory. Pass into space asks for quick transitions, but if you tell your players to regroup after gaining the ball, many of them won't make the forward runs to counterattack. Being more disciplined tells your creative roles (CWB, WB-at, AM, and MEZ) to not risk the passes and not roam that much, so they sometimes won't create enough or they will make outstanding passes while their partners hold position. Your NCB will kick out the ball when they are pressed. This means you are giving away possession, contradicting the instruction to play out from the back and giving the opposition team a lot of chances in late game when your players are tired and may not cover space quickly enough or make good enough decisions.

• As said before, you are exhausting the wings when focusing play left/right. They already have difficulties covering the space behind them. This would explain why you concede late goals, when they can't cover effectively or are caught out of position. Even if you substitute them, the substitutes are probably not good enough to perform in exactly the same way as your starters.

• Finally, "step up more" is the new wording for the offside trap, which won't work that well in a mid-block and may be even worse for the plays behind the defense.

Finally, consider that even in real life, late goals against and having to fight back from an early goal is pretty common. Just look at the last Man City games. So it's not necessarily unrealistic, although maybe by correcting the above stuff you can diminish it happening.

Hope you can fix it, mate. Have a nice day

 

[Delicate Dave]

40 minutes ago, lozzny said:

Before discussing tactics, I'd like to acknowledge something first. I'm not a code engineer or anything but I think you're contradicting yourself. It's true that there's a difference between when the ME calculates outcomes and when you see the visual result, but that doesn't invalidate the engine as a representation of football. Comparisons with real life are unfair for obvious reasons, but even if you could narrow the time between calculations to the point a scream was calculated right when you do it, in real life a scream from a manager doesn't necessarily make any difference. However, you seem to believe, to a certain extent, that the outcome is decided before the match even starts. This is not the case. The delay is neither that long nor that simple. Many of the ME inputs are variables that interact with each other. Energy levels, for example, aren't fixed because they depend on how they interact with the physical attributes of the player and how you change your tactics mid-game (focusing play down the wings drains stamina faster in those players, both for you and for the opposition).

 

 

So tell me if you click kick-off and then just let the game run till the end how is a result produced if the outcome is not decided before the game even starts? The process continues till you stop it with your changes during the game and those changes will make the system produce a different result than the one is started with. 

Thanks for the tactical advice, like you not and expert but yes that all makes sense. I'm happy with the results being produced by this team. I don't change the static much but I do change the roles and yes I will drop in a DM if I fear I might let a lead slip. All that has been done and more to stop these strange regular events where my team goes ahead but ships a goal in the second half. Like everything else the has to be a reason for it, I just can't find it. And more to the point I only mentioned it because I've seen those types of results far more in this version than any other I've played. In the past, the weakness has been fitness, stamina, lack of training, or too much training but you can see from the image that is not an issue here.

I could go it more detail on what this tactic does and why I think works if you want. I tend to use this formation a lot but you can't just jump right in with a premiership team playing or yes the problem you outlike will hit you hard. But I took West Brom into the prem playing this and using it I won the prem & CL twice on the trot so it can work.

 

Edited February 18 by Delicate Dave

[Cloud9]

9 hours ago, Delicate Dave said:

It's always good to get input. The image is my current tactics. The issue was more pronounced when I had a DM. I think the way it is now way I get enough early goals to win the game. This change has taken it from 1-1 & 2-2 results having been 2-0 up, to 3-1, 4-3 & 5-2 results all those with me scoring all my goals before the other team. I think that's odd, don't you? My first thought was energy levels, it normally is that, but this has me foxed. I know it's just a trifling odd thing and perhaps "boring" is the wrong word. But taking the lead and getting pegged back so often is annoying, and makes you change things too much when to find an answer.

I should say I get my fun out of the building from lower leagues using my made-up tactics.   

So the problem isn't predetermination on why you're conceding leads, it's that you're running a MEZ as part of your double pivot. 

[Brentford Alan]

22 hours ago, Delicate Dave said:

I don't think you understand how computer coding works. But I'm not here to teach Computer Science so I apologize, what I mean by the story is how the game plays out. IE you go 2 goals up then draw the game. I'm not changing anything during the time of the score being 2-0 to 2-2 so yes the drew is predetermined based on my choice pre-game, but I don't know why. Could be stamina but that doesn't show on the player at the time. Could it be just the keeper's stamina or concentration? I don't know but the times this is happening in FM24 - I've managed about 12 clubs now - It's annoying and I can't seem to resolve it by the players or tactics.
 

 

You might not be changing anything, but remember you're playing against another manager and team who actively are. They see a weakness in your team and/or tactics, change things up, score 2 goals. IRL or in the computer world just plugging one set of instructions in and expecting them to work for 90 minutes flawlessly is a recipe for failure.

[XaW]

23 hours ago, Delicate Dave said:

I don't think you understand how computer coding works. But I'm not here to teach Computer Science so I apologize, what I mean by the story is how the game plays out. IE you go 2 goals up then draw the game. I'm not changing anything during the time of the score being 2-0 to 2-2 so yes the drew is predetermined based on my choice pre-game, but I don't know why. Could be stamina but that doesn't show on the player at the time. Could it be just the keeper's stamina or concentration? I don't know but the times this is happening in FM24 - I've managed about 12 clubs now - It's annoying and I can't seem to resolve it by the players or tactics.

For those that think they are playing a "live events" let me explain how computer code works in all games (by the way I used to manage computer coders, not an expert in code but know how it works). You as a player are offered choices, this produces actions and then those actions are executed along with existing pre-coded actions. In Football game terms all that FM does is produce a set of different ways games will be won or how many goals will be scored & many other events. At the start of every game yes the result and score are predetermined to the extent that only you making changes during pre-set periods in the game will change that outcome. The pre-set periods are the spaces in actions that have been stored now being processed. You interrupt these when you click pause but the game doesn't re-calculate till the end of a process. That's why you see delays in instructions you offer and why you can't do things like "shout" instantly from the touchline as a real manager can - IE your action choice needs to be processed, calculation re-done and slotted into the preset period.

That's not entirely correct. Here is how SI have explained it:

Quote

We've made it extremely clear on a number of occasions the game is not scripted. What happens is the match plays out initially based on all the factors present at the start of the game (such as tactics, team selection, weather, referee - everything) then depending on changes made during the match by the AI and user manager, the match is recalculated based on those.

So in theory when you click 'Kick Off' the match has been played through already based on all the thousands of factors which go into the match (so could be that the play-through of the match, the AI wins 2-0) - then based on the changes you or the AI then make to your team during the match, the game is played through again from the point of changes, so is recalculated. Which would then like a 'butterfly effect' change the course of the first 'play through'. So after this second recalculation the initial final score (which neither the AI nor the user can see) can change.

As an example, let's say you went more attacking after 5 mins - the result using these changes alongside all the other factors recalculates the final score as 4-0 to the AI. Or perhaps you go more defensive and bring on a different LB - it recalculates as a 2-2 draw.

The game "knows" what the score will be, but the opponent AI manager does NOT. And both your and the opponent AI manager can chance the result at any time. So the game does no tweak stuff to get to the desired result, but you actions, as well as those of the AI manager will both change what happens.

[Delicate Dave]

2 hours ago, Brentford Alan said:

 

You might not be changing anything, but remember you're playing against another manager and team who actively are. They see a weakness in your team and/or tactics, change things up, score 2 goals. IRL or in the computer world just plugging one set of instructions in and expecting them to work for 90 minutes flawlessly is a recipe for failure.

Good point, that's the weakness I'm looking for.

[Delicate Dave]

2 hours ago, XaW said:

That's not entirely correct. Here is how SI have explained it:

The game "knows" what the score will be, but the opponent AI manager does NOT. And both your and the opponent AI manager can chance the result at any time. So the game does no tweak stuff to get to the desired result, but you actions, as well as those of the AI manager will both change what happens.

This is as I said, I've never said it's scripted, I don't even understand what that means. It's interesting that in the two replies I see today in one it says the AI looks for weakness all the time as the game is played and the other says it does not tweak stuff to get a result. The point is both are true all actions are based on values. But no software is perfect so we shouldn't assume just because the values show a weakness it really is a weakness when played out. 

[Delicate Dave]

Well anyway, I was only really looking for ideas. I think this thread has run its course. Sorry if I didn't explain well enough.

[Brentford Alan]

59 minutes ago, Delicate Dave said:

This is as I said, I've never said it's scripted, I don't even understand what that means. It's interesting that in the two replies I see today in one it says the AI looks for weakness all the time as the game is played and the other says it does not tweak stuff to get a result. The point is both are true all actions are based on values. But no software is perfect so we shouldn't assume just because the values show a weakness it really is a weakness when played out. 

I think what XAW meant was the game doesn't pre kick off decide the score will be 2-2 and then only make tweaks to counter any changes the human manager makes to keep the final score as previously decided. The AI manager will make changes to try and impact the final result in their favour the same as the human manager does, each change by either is then recalculated by the game and a new final score and 'story' (if you like) is determined.

[Etebaer]

Am 17.2.2024 um 17:25 schrieb Delicate Dave:

...you take a 2 or even 3 goal to nil lead.

A 3 goal to nil lead is pretty much the worst result you can have early in the game bcs it seems to trigger sort of a "complacency switch" and you often see the other team suddenly come up especially if the half time break is still due.

Also the tendency to give up tighter leads and receive late draws seems to be more prevalent in FM24 and you need really to be above and beyond the league average to overcome that tendency.

Its not bound to exhaustion as fresh players struggle alike exhausted players and usually it is better to try to reinvigorate your goal scoring ability than to strengthen your defense - go for the 5:4 win is in my experience more successfull thant trying to hold off the oponents from scoring.

 

Edited February 19 by Etebaer

[bigmattb28]

Just jumping on here with the tried, tested and often used - 'it's your tactics mate' comment. But yeah, it's absolutely your tactics.

[Dedinho]

1 hour ago, bigmattb28 said:

Just jumping on here with the tried, tested and often used - 'it's your tactics mate' comment. But yeah, it's absolutely your tactics.

But this is where it gets interesting for me when I read the "it's your tactics" reply - the obvious question appears and no one seems to be willing to touch it.

I agree that it is my tactics. But is it my tactics in the scope of the game of football, or is it my tactics in the scope of whatever match engine is running in that particular FM version? 

If it's the former, I have no issues with it. But if it's the latter, then it often signals an issue.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, Dedinho said:

I agree that it is my tactics. But is it my tactics in the scope of the game of football, or is it my tactics in the scope of whatever match engine is running in that particular FM version? 

It’s a bit of both imo.

In the main it’s just football.  A well thought through tactic can stand the test of time over multiple iterations of FM, albeit with the odd tweak here and there.  On the flip side we can also employ strategies that can take advantage of the match engine.  We also have the issue where we look at an instruction in the tactic creator and think “just what the hell is a Libero* anyway?

*Or any given instruction.

What we can also neglect is the combination of instructions + player.  Yes the instructions give us a broad definition of what we can expect from a particular role or instruction, but the player(s) we actually use in those roles or who carry out our instructions can can change how the role plays out.  So (for example) if we use the Trequartista role in combination with a player with loads of Flair but not much work rate, we’ll get in matches what we may view as the archetypal Trequartista.  But if we swap in someone with much more work rate and less flair we’ll get a very different player on the pitch.

So TL;DR, start by building a tactic which we may consider to be based on sound football knowledge and tweak from there if we spot issues.  I’d also advise starting small - don’t just add a load of instructions because if something goes wrong it’s a nightmare to see the wood for the trees.  Btw, our players are perfectly capable of playing a game of football without us “instructing” them to do anything at all.  All we need do really is define what style of football we want them to play (if any).

[Rookie FM]

Someone was playing FM game with west Ham team of 105 unbeaten matches(I am sure that person did post picture on this forum somewhere which is unbelievable 

 Great Achievement to get 105 unbeaten Matches which is hard work!

Edited February 22 by Rookie FM

[Delicate Dave]

On 20/02/2024 at 06:24, meadowsaaron38 said:

How are you doing with your player subs in the 2nd half?

In your ingame tactics section, do you have any match plans? this will allow you to let your team know what to do if you get 2 or 3 goals infront.

Ingame tactics, I've never been able to get these to work in any version of FM. It's refreshing to find some who has.

[Delicate Dave]

Well I was going to let this but I thought I would check for replies. I still managed to get promotion so that's good. Will be interesting to see how it pans out in the higher division. The "it's the tactics" thing is interesting.  I tend to lean towards the setting in FM that mean at certain time your tactics won't make any difference. Whether this is what some call "scripting" or just that certain events are pushed to the front by the general gameplay coded into the system. The sort of things that crop up are The top team losing 0-3 to the bottom team, the first round of the league cup being almost always a penalty shootout, players asking for new contracts only ending one way in general, giving you the best player a big contract often ends up with the sending 6 months out with injury, putting players on the transfer almost guarantees no one will make an offer for them. All these things can happen and do but not like clockwork. I do hope FM gets the update in need, and I've not talking about graphics, the gameplay is ridiculous now, the reporter's questions, the food poisoning, The are so many things that just need dumping or real work to make them worthwhile.

 

[Delicate Dave]

I've found working out subs to hold a result is pretty easy in FM and has been for years. Each player starts with a rating of 6.7. During the game the rating goes up or down and all these ratings for your team are added up and compared to the other team. This decide which team is on top or has the ball. If you sub a player on say 7.7 for a new player you whole team rating goes down by 1.0. If you do five subs at once and replace all the best-rated players in your team that's a big drop. So best to try and only replace low-performing players. When you do that you are making the team stronger. I've even replaced five players in the first half if the rating drops low enough, this has turned a game around for me that looked lost after 15 mins.

[SPE3D]

2 hours ago, Delicate Dave said:

Ingame tactics, I've never been able to get these to work in any version of FM. It's refreshing to find some who has.

That's on you then. I get in game tactical decisions to work on a regular basis and I can see the difference they make. It is a key part of my management style.

[Stevo_99]

I must admit I agree the game is scripted, every game seems to have the same outcome over and over again.

 

No matter how good or bad I play after 90 minutes it will be one of three possible outcomes:

 

(1) Win

(2) Lose

(3) Draw.

 

Sort this out FM it is getting tedious! 

Edited February 26 by Stevo_99

[warlock]

7 minutes ago, Stevo_99 said:

it will one of three possible outcomes

[Dagenham_Dave]

On 22/02/2024 at 14:28, Delicate Dave said:

I've found working out subs to hold a result is pretty easy in FM and has been for years. Each player starts with a rating of 6.7. During the game the rating goes up or down and all these ratings for your team are added up and compared to the other team. This decide which team is on top or has the ball. If you sub a player on say 7.7 for a new player you whole team rating goes down by 1.0. If you do five subs at once and replace all the best-rated players in your team that's a big drop. So best to try and only replace low-performing players. When you do that you are making the team stronger. I've even replaced five players in the first half if the rating drops low enough, this has turned a game around for me that looked lost after 15 mins.

I've read some nonsensical posts in my time on here, but this one takes the proverbial biscuit. 

[sdx15]

The only thing that seems to be prevalent this year is the one team scores, the other team bounces back immediately from kick-off scenario. It works both for  and against you and it's annoying honestly.

[NineCloudNine]

On 22/02/2024 at 14:28, Delicate Dave said:

I've found working out subs to hold a result is pretty easy in FM and has been for years. Each player starts with a rating of 6.7. During the game the rating goes up or down and all these ratings for your team are added up and compared to the other team. This decide which team is on top or has the ball. If you sub a player on say 7.7 for a new player you whole team rating goes down by 1.0. If you do five subs at once and replace all the best-rated players in your team that's a big drop. So best to try and only replace low-performing players. When you do that you are making the team stronger. I've even replaced five players in the first half if the rating drops low enough, this has turned a game around for me that looked lost after 15 mins.

I do the opposite. If I am winning I sub off the players with the highest ratings, to preserve that rating. Keeps them fresh, keeps them happy, gives minutes to understudies.

Scores are not added up btw. Your players have high scores because they are playing well. It’s not more complicated than that.

Edited February 26 by NineCloudNine

[NineCloudNine]

On 22/02/2024 at 12:24, Delicate Dave said:

Well I was going to let this but I thought I would check for replies. I still managed to get promotion so that's good. Will be interesting to see how it pans out in the higher division. The "it's the tactics" thing is interesting.  I tend to lean towards the setting in FM that mean at certain time your tactics won't make any difference. Whether this is what some call "scripting" or just that certain events are pushed to the front by the general gameplay coded into the system. The sort of things that crop up are The top team losing 0-3 to the bottom team, the first round of the league cup being almost always a penalty shootout, players asking for new contracts only ending one way in general, giving you the best player a big contract often ends up with the sending 6 months out with injury, putting players on the transfer almost guarantees no one will make an offer for them. All these things can happen and do but not like clockwork. I do hope FM gets the update in need, and I've not talking about graphics, the gameplay is ridiculous now, the reporter's questions, the food poisoning, The are so many things that just need dumping or real work to make them worthwhile.

 

I don’t recall any of these things ever happening to me.

[Delicate Dave]

8 hours ago, NineCloudNine said:

I don’t recall any of these things ever happening to me.

I simply don't believe you've never seen an email where a player has gone sick with food poisoning. The next thing you'll tell me is if you've managed a small club Vs a big club in the cup you've never given away a penalty :-) 

There are many incidents or events that repeat and repeat in FM. To say there isn't a set of instructions that could be defined as scripting is simply hard to believe. I call this gameplay or storyline, I think it's a bunch of code procedures that get called fairly randomly.

[NineCloudNine]

19 minutes ago, Delicate Dave said:

I simply don't believe you've never seen an email where a player has gone sick with food poisoning. The next thing you'll tell me is if you've managed a small club Vs a big club in the cup you've never given away a penalty :-) 

There are many incidents or events that repeat and repeat in FM. To say there isn't a set of instructions that could be defined as scripting is simply hard to believe. I call this gameplay or storyline, I think it's a bunch of code procedures that get called fairly randomly.

I don’t recall ever seeing food poisoning. I may have done. It certainly hasn’t happened often enough for it to register as a thing. You didn’t say “given away a penalty” you said “the first round of the league cup almost always ends in a penalty shootout”. I don’t recall ever going to a penalty shoot-out in an early League Cup round. I may have done. It certainly hasn’t happened often enough for it to register as a thing. I could go on…

Your brain is playing tricks on you. We’re all wired to spot patterns. It’s a useful survival skill in the wild, but it’s terrible when applied to random events in things like games. There is an enormous scientific literature around this. Start by looking up “confirmation bias” and go from there. 

Edited February 26 by NineCloudNine

[Delicate Dave]

33 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

I don’t recall ever seeing food poisoning. I may have done. It certainly hasn’t happened often enough for it to register as a thing. You didn’t say “given away a penalty” you said “the first round of the league cup almost always ends in a penalty shootout”. I don’t recall ever going to a penalty shoot-out in an early League Cup round. I may have done. It certainly hasn’t happened often enough for it to register as a thing. I could go on…

Your brain is playing tricks on you. We’re all wired to spot patterns. It’s a useful survival skill in the wild, but it’s terrible when applied to random events in things like games. There is an enormous scientific literature around this. Start by looking up “confirmation bias” and go from there. 

Ya given away a penalty is another example. I guess perhaps I play more than you? I tend to play on and off but in winter because I'm retired I can play for 4-5 a day. Don't you even see those endless reporter emails with the daft questions? I get them and players going catching flu, colds or virus. Mind you at times it can seem completely random - like the time I went 2-0 after 5 mins, then had 2 goals disallowed, gave away 2 pens, had 2 players sent off and draw 4-4 :-)

[NineCloudNine]

10 minutes ago, Delicate Dave said:

Don't you even see those endless reporter emails with the daft questions?

Yes to those. Being asked for my reaction every time a player scores for their country is dull. As is the limited set of questions in press conferences. But that's a different thing - a very small database of questions in a module that hasn't been updated for years. Not the same as your brain convincing you that you are seeing patterns in the vast range of outcomes and events in a football match.

[JR866Gunner]

On 18/02/2024 at 17:00, Delicate Dave said:

It's always good to get input. The image is my current tactics. The issue was more pronounced when I had a DM. I think the way it is now way I get enough early goals to win the game. This change has taken it from 1-1 & 2-2 results having been 2-0 up, to 3-1, 4-3 & 5-2 results all those with me scoring all my goals before the other team. I think that's odd, don't you? My first thought was energy levels, it normally is that, but this has me foxed. I know it's just a trifling odd thing and perhaps "boring" is the wrong word. But taking the lead and getting pegged back so often is annoying, and makes you change things too much when to find an answer.

I should say I get my fun out of the building from lower leagues using my made-up tactics.   

Is that the return of a Luke Berry to the mighty Cambridge?

[Delicate Dave]

2 hours ago, JR866Gunner said:

Is that the return of a Luke Berry to the mighty Cambridge?

No it's Adam.

[Delicate Dave]

Well another season, higher division, half the team changed, and the same annoying thing. I think it's probably time to give this up till the next version is out.

Played 22 games, Drew 10, and took the lead in 7 of them. 

44 goals scored 

Looking at the data hub it says we are an incredibly hard team to score against.

[JR866Gunner]

5 hours ago, Delicate Dave said:

No it's Adam.

Aww flashbacks of the Cambridge of old lol

[Delicate Dave]

I think I might well have solved this :-) Well since I made the changed I've played 10 games and not once conceded after taking the lead.

That change was removing the PASS INTO SPACE instruction. I thought that was a good option for my formation. But never liked using it as I've not had great success with it in the past. 

[XaW]

5 minutes ago, Delicate Dave said:

I think I might well have solved this :-) Well since I made the changed I've played 10 games and not once conceded after taking the lead.

That change was removing the PASS INTO SPACE instruction. I thought that was a good option for my formation. But never liked using it as I've not had great success with it in the past. 

Pass into space can be an excellent instruction.... if the rest of the tactic are set up for it. If you are an attacking side that pushes up high and press high to win possession up high, then I'd ask; Pass into what space? Using it with a very aggressive tactic can force players to take risky passes when the space just isn't there. That doesn't mean it's impossible with an aggressive tactic, but it's very likely to make the team throw away possession since it sort of contradicts the rest of the tactic. In the same way that a tactic that focus on counter attacking would contradict Work ball into box, for example. The latter took me way too long to notice as I struggled with the team slowing pace down instead of getting the ball into the dangerous spaces on the counter.

[Delicate Dave]

11 hours ago, XaW said:

Pass into space can be an excellent instruction.... if the rest of the tactic are set up for it. If you are an attacking side that pushes up high and press high to win possession up high, then I'd ask; Pass into what space? Using it with a very aggressive tactic can force players to take risky passes when the space just isn't there. That doesn't mean it's impossible with an aggressive tactic, but it's very likely to make the team throw away possession since it sort of contradicts the rest of the tactic. In the same way that a tactic that focus on counter attacking would contradict Work ball into box, for example. The latter took me way too long to notice as I struggled with the team slowing pace down instead of getting the ball into the dangerous spaces on the counter.

Yes I understand what you are saying. I would say my tactic is not aggressive as I've got the discipline instruction on and the tempo is not high. Although pressing is high I do not prevent the keeper from passing to the defenders - I want them to have the ball and I cut off their route to pass it.

ut, it wasn't that with pass in to pass on the static was failing. The problem was shipping goals after dominating the first half and even going 3-0 could end in 3-3, 4-3 or at one time 3-5. I don't know what was happening here but if I was to guess it would be that the pass-into-space instruction controls the amount of running some players do. Losing just half of their energy meant in this situation the one defensive midfield could not cope - I do have him in mid not as a dm, some might scoff at that in FM24 but find the right players and this works well - So as soon as that ball winner can't win the ball the tactic fails. Pass to player means he does less running to recover the ball. That's what I think anyway. Interesting my passion stats have not improved and I still win some games on very low possession but my defence & keeper are very good at this level. And I seem to convert chances.