Cleon Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) This is taken from my blog; https://www.viewfromthetouchline.com/ I feel that while attributes are a vital part of Football Manager, I think we have all become far too reliant on the actual numeric value of the attribute above all else. My aim is to take control back and use all the utilities the game has to offer to show that focusing on attributes isn’t the only way to play. Some of you might find this way too time-consuming, and that’s fine. It probably is for some of you. That’s the beauty of Football Manager; there are many different ways to play the game and we all do quirky little things to bring us enjoyment and add longevity to the game. Attributes, what attributes! FM23 Playing Football Manager attributeless isn’t something new or revolutionary, lots of people have done it in the past. If you’ve followed my stuff for a while on the older website, you will know that I have done it a fair few times too and wrote about it too. This year is no different in that sense and I’ll be doing it again. So first things first, people always ask me why I would play with no attributes and what’s the point of it all. Well, the answer is simple really, there is no point to it other than adding another layer of difficulty to the game. This keeps me interested in the game and lets me immerse myself in it fully. As a game Football Manager hasn’t really changed much, it’s still a simple game and the basics of what it's about will never change. The game might get new features added but at its core, it's still a football game. This means that some of us who try to stop ourselves from getting bored or want to increase the difficulty for ourselves, try to do these other ways. That’s why I and others go attributeless. But this isn’t the only thing I do to try and retain my interest in the game and make life more difficult by doing other things on top of this. I don’t see the point of playing attributeless if you still use real player names in the game as a lot of them will be familiar to you. So for me, I always play with fake names in a proper long-term way. Again it makes sure that I don’t kind of cheat and sign players that I know. I know it’s a single-player game and it doesn’t really matter if you do, do it that way. I’m not judging those that do but for me, I like to go all in. In regards to attributes, I have someone make me panels every year for a skin that removes attributes and their references completely from the game. You can kind of do this via altering the attribute skin colours in the options but the attributes are still visible in graphs on certain screens like the player development page within the game. So I like to get these deleted so I don’t stumble across them and forget I shouldn’t visit that page. They also remove all star ratings and potential from the skin too. What all of this means is that I just focus on playing the game and become really involved in the day-to-day running of the club. The staff become invaluable for me playing this way and while the feedback they give isn’t always the best it usually is enough to aid me in the way I’m trying to approach the game. Ultimately I’m the one still making all the final decisions at the club but I like to hear the opinions of my staff no matter how right or wrong they may be. Data I still don’t know what club I will be at either yet because I plan on holidaying for 10+ years so I can have some kind of historical data available to me in-game. It’s a real shame that this will likely be the trickiest part of the game though as Football Manager doesn’t actually allow you to see season-by-season historical data in the game. For this, I’ll have to create several saves for every season played before I take over a team, so I can refer back to check things out. This is annoying as hell but worth it in the long run. It would be a godsend if Football Manager 23 allowed us to do this though right? Maybe I am lucky and this is one of the changes (nothing announced so far for FM23 when writing this) this year. The reason for wanting data is because I want to do some kind of save that focuses heavily on data and uses it to identify possible players to sign. I hate the term Moneyball on Football Manager as people usually think signing a wonderkid for a low price and selling them for a massive profit in 3 years time is Moneyball. It isn’t. What I’m hoping to do is to use the data correctly more in line with that of a Moneyball approach. This brings me on to scouting. Scouting This is likely the part where I reaffirm I’m a massive knobhead to you all (like you all didn’t already know eh?!!). While my scouts will be identifying players for me all I’ll have to go on is the feedback they give about each player. So the player reports will be vital for what happens next due to me not being able to see any of the player's potential or current potential. I will be manually scouting players. When I say manually scouting players, I don't mean via filters on the player search screen etc. I mean watching them play actual games for their clubs and acting like I'm a real scout. Any player I view is because my scouts identified the player first or because I’ve asked them to look at someone based on specific data. My scouts will scout everywhere that I'm allowed. Then I will create various shortlists to help me maintain a proper scouting network long-term. This is important because I’m not just looking for players, for now, I’ll be looking for players, for now, next season, the season after etc. And all of this will change depending on what type of success I have. So it becomes really important that I cover all bases and have identified players for all different types of scenarios short-term and long-term. These Football Manager shortlists will be along the lines of youth players/older players and then I’ll have specific ones that I add for various phases. These phases are things like the player is ready now, needs a year, needs 2 years, could fill in short-term but I need better long-term and so on. To give you a better idea, here is a picture of some of the shortlists I have used in the past; It sounds like a lot of faffing around but it's much simpler than it sounds. The hardest part is deciding who makes which list and the manual scouting I do of the players myself. When a scout identifies a player, I’ll look at the scout report and request an analyst report. The System This is probably the most time-consuming part of the whole process of Football Manager, designing some kind of rating/grading system to help you use the information your coaches, scouts and analysts give you. But once you’ve created this system everything is straightforward, it’s just setting it up at the start that can be a ballache. You’ll also need custom views set up to allow you to see the data you are searching for. I’ll do a separate post for this at a later date once Football Manager 23 is out. Each position and role has its own criteria, so the system I use is very dynamic and doesn’t follow the same criteria. I then basically rate each criterion in either an A (Excellent level), B (Good enough for the club), C (Not good enough for the club) and D (Really bad) and create a total score for the scout report. Now the scout report I mention here isn’t the scout report on the player's profile, no sir/madame! This will be my own scout report from manually scouting every potential candidate my scouts find. These will be based on how reports are done in real life. Now to play this way is very time-consuming initially until you come up with a system to help you with the process. What I’m about to show you, all the data might not be available for in-game so a lot of this is based on visuals from what I see. It also looks a lot more complex than it really is because the actual system I use in-game will be shortened down and grouped together. But to give you a general idea, here is the initial thought process. Let’s call these timestamps because that’s what they basically are, where a player does an action and then I decide if he’s capable of doing the action or not. Example of criteria Defending Interceptions Space in his back Pressing Transitions between Attack to Defence Attacking Operational speed (How quick does he act on the ball) Passing to midfielders/dribbling into midfield Short passing Long range passing Teamplay/reading the game Transitions between defence to attack Physical Speed < 5 Metres Speed > 15 Metres Agility Challenges Aerial Ability Stamina All of the above is similar for each position but I’d add to it depending on what the position I was looking at is. For example, wingers would have dribbling and one on one's etc. I don’t want to devise a system that is universal for each role and position as that isn’t really helpful. Each report I do will be bespoke based on position, role and duty. In the end, I’ll also decide whether the player has potential or not based on what we've seen and whether there is much room for development. Then I will give them a grade based on what I think. I was going to work along the lines of this for a centre back; Ball Control (becoming more important for defenders if playing out from the back) Bravery in attempting challenges Concentration Communication Height Position Reading of the game Speed Strong and accurate ball heading (defensive and attacking) Tackling ability It will all depend on the roles I have planned too in the tactic I’m going to use. Believe it or not, I’ve not even put any thought into that yet. There are no such 'fixed' roles in real life as there are on Football Manager and players are asked to be much more versatile these days but specific criteria may not be as important for a no-nonsense defender for instance. For example, speed and agility can be important to my team if we often play with a relatively high line. It can also be used to see how he copes with space at the back too. So judging these criteria will be the same for every team but some are more relevant and therefore more important to certain styles/teams if that makes sense. If I used a box-to-box midfielder on Football Manager, I'd be looking for something along these lines Awareness Ball control Breaking into the opposing box Marking abilities Passing ability under pressure Positioning Stamina Tackling and defensive abilities Defending Interceptions Positioning Pressing Transitions between Attack to Defence Attacking Operational speed (How quick does he act on the ball) 360 degrees awareness Final passing (in the final third) Teamplay/reading the game Transitions between defence to attack Scoring ability Physical Speed < 5 Metres Speed > 15 Metres Agility Challenges Stamina As you can see this is my thought process so far and how stuff will be worked out. I’ve actually streamlined it to work in the game but just wanted to give you an insight into the actual thought process behind what I’m doing. The criteria are pretty similar across the board but have been tailored for specific roles and duties. A lot of the above will be grouped together under stuff like ball control etc. All of this will also work hand in hand with the data when I’m looking to identify players to bring in. The whole point of all of this is to create a club philosophy and a real DNA for the club. I want the club to be the DNA that I’m creating and focus on this above all else. I’ll share the more in-depth stuff in a future update and possibly share all the metrics I’ll be using if people are interested but there is an awful lot of them. I just wanted to get this post out there for you to have a little insight into my complex plans. Hope you enjoy it. Edited December 11, 2022 by Cleon 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 11, 2022 Author Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) Shampoo, Hairdressing, And A Love Affair is the start of a new Football Manager 2023 series. I’ve mulled over who to play as on Football Manager 23 for quite some time now. I did plan on playing in Denmark with Amager Boldklub Tårnby and even completed the first season with them. But it just didn’t feel right, I wasn’t enjoying it at all. As many of you will know, it’s not often I actually play in Europe on Football Manager as I find it boring. It likely didn’t help that on Football Manager 22 I had one of the most enjoyable saves I have ever had. I spent the best part of 20 seasons in Iceland playing as Þór Akureyri and taking them to multiple Champions League victories. The Danish save felt a bit similar to this I think that’s why I wasn’t really getting into the save. So I began looking for something else. Now a lot of you will have likely heard about this club because they earned the tagline Pior Time do Mundo, which translates to Worst Team in The World due to going 55 games without a win. The not-so-impressive record was earned during a period of 3 years and 11 months between July 1980 and June 1984. Their embarrassing record stood at; 55 games without a win 48 losses 7 draws 231 goals conceded 25 goals scored This wasn’t the reason for choosing to manage Íbis Sport Club though and I could have easily chosen someone else. One of the other options was Atlético Mogi who also boasts another spectacular record for not winning. More recently in fact, June 2017 to June 2022 they had a record of; 5 years without a win 56 games without a win 53 losses 3 draws 221 goals conceded 24 goals scored There were also other teams I considered too but I narrowed it down to these two. Now I already knew about these teams beforehand but and have for many years. Or so I thought. The more I began researching the two teams and going over their history the more and more Íbis Sport Club began to stand out. The club embraced the fact they were rubbish and celebrate it like it was a major honour. They also have a really strong social media presence and like to take the **** out of themselves. They’ve become somewhat successful marketing-wise and have turned the bad fortunes of the club into an international brand. One of the deciding factors for choosing Íbis Sport Club though was the characters associated with the club and especially one particular icon. Left-footed, cool hair, and a number 10! What is there not to love?! Mauro Teixeira Thorpe better known as Mauro Shampoo is widely celebrated and became the face of the club during the run mentioned above despite only ever scoring 1 goal. He’s become a bit of a star in his own right and turned the misfortunes into a huge success. There’s even a short film about him; Mauro Shampoo also inspired a song, soundtrack of the Cinefoot-winning film: “An Incredible História de Mauro Shampoo”, by Oswaldo Montenegro. “This is the true story / Brazilian urban legend / Viva Mauro Shampoo! / The glorious centre-forward of defeat / That we chase away sadness / Like the vulture chases away / It is in the goal against which joy is tested / Goal of plate is fantasy / Because baião is not blues..." It gets even better though. One of his children also became a footballer and played for Íbis Sport Club but never became as famous. Honved Thorpe his son, arguably has the better nickname though, the Shampuzinho!! Mauro Shampoo is too much of a character for me to ignore and seems like the ideal man manager to use for playing as Íbis Sport Club on Football Manager 2023. Edited December 11, 2022 by Cleon 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cleon Posted December 11, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) In this article, we are showcasing the 5-2-2-1 formation and taking a real deep dive into the way it functions and plays. On top of this, I want to show it playing two different contrasting styles with small tweaks to the team instructions. Part One - The 5-2-2-1 Formation Low Possession At the very start of the game, Íbis Sport Club doesn’t really have a squad. Even if you add the option to add more players to playable teams when creating the game. It doesn’t generate a full squad and I only have 5 players in the first team. This means that I’m going to have to sign free agents just to be able to field a squad. So I can’t use data straight away and will have to wait slightly longer before signing players with data. For now, I just need to fill out the squad using scout recommendations. It’s the downside of starting in the 6th tier of Brazilian Football. Hopefully, I can start using data to sign players from the second season though, or the third season at the very latest. There is also the issue with the games data hub and it doesn’t actually count my games as official games, so doesn’t present the data from the State Championships. This will skew the data available to me, to begin with as I have a very small pool of players to recruit from due to being a poor team. So it’ll likely just be free agents for now. But we’ll see how it plays out and hopefully isn’t as bad as I imagine it will be. The 5-2-2-1 Formation Due to us being one of the worst teams in world football, we want to keep it tight tactically and use the ball to the best of our abilities. That for me is, not spending much time on the ball at all. But we still want to give teams a run for their money, that’s why I devised this tactic. What Is The 5-2-2-1 The 5-2-2-1 formation is becoming a more popular tactical approach in football. It is a formation that is designed to provide a strong defensive base while also offering a potent attacking threat. The 5-2-2-1 formation consists of five defenders, two defensive midfielders (or central midfielders), two attacking midfielders, and a lone striker. The five defenders are responsible for protecting the goal and preventing the opposition from creating chances. The two defensive/central midfielders play a crucial role in shielding the defence and providing cover for the fullbacks when they push forward. The two attacking midfielders are tasked with creating scoring opportunities and supporting the striker, while the lone striker is the team's main source of goals. If you want the striker to be the creator then you need the attacking midfielders to then take on the responsibilities for scoring the goals. I’ll talk a little bit more about this further in the article, as it’s a bit more complex than that. One of the key advantages of the 5-2-2-1 formation is its defensive solidity. With five defenders and two defensive/central midfielders, the team is well-equipped to deal with most attacking threats. In Football Manager terms, these players should just “sit and cover” and shouldn’t venture forward much, if at all. The formation allows for a strong and compact defensive unit that can be difficult for opponents to break down. Additionally, the two defensive/central midfielders provide additional cover and support for the defence, which makes it difficult for the opposition to create chances through the centre of the pitch. Another advantage of the 5-2-2-1 is that it provides a good balance between defence and attack. While the team is primarily focused on defending, the two attacking midfielders and lone striker give the team a potent attacking threat. This allows the team to switch quickly from defence to attack, catching the opposition off guard and creating opportunities to score. However, the 5-2-2-1 formation is not without its weaknesses. One of the main drawbacks of the formation is that it can be difficult (but not impossible) to maintain possession and control of the game. With only two midfielders, the team may struggle to dominate the centre of the pitch and keep the ball. This can make it difficult to build attacks and create scoring opportunities, especially against teams that employ a high press. Overall, the 5-2-2-1 formation is a versatile and effective tactical approach that can be successful at all levels of the game. While it may not be the most flashy or exciting tactic, it is a reliable and solid approach that can deliver results for teams that are looking to defend well and hit the opposition on the counter-attack. Style of Play Here I want to explain what I’m creating and talk about why I’ve chosen the instructions I have, to give a real insight into how and why it works. Low-possession football is a style of play that focuses on defending and counter-attacking rather than dominating possession. It involves a team keeping the ball for shorter periods of time and using quick, direct passes to create chances. The team will also look to press the opposition when they have the ball, in order to win it back quickly and launch a counter-attack. When I say low possession, what I mean here is, we just don’t favour holding onto the ball and we just try and get up the field the best we can. There might be phases of play or certain scenarios that determine we have the ball longer than others. But retaining the ball isn’t a priority. I wouldn’t expect possession numbers to ever exceed 50% really playing how we’ve set up. Low block: A low block is a defensive tactic used to protect the goal from shots taken from close range. It involves defenders forming a wall in front of the goal and blocking shots with their bodies. In Football Manager 23 terms, a low block instructs your players to wait for the opposition to come towards them before your players will begin to press them. The players furthest up the pitch will look to shield and block rather than engaging in the press initially and others will do the same until the opposition become deeper in your own half. Then you’ll see players be more aggressive with the press. High defensive line: A high defensive line is a tactic used to push the opposition further away from the goal. It involves defenders positioning themselves higher up the pitch, closer to the halfway line, in order to deny the opposition space in the attacking third. It might seem to be counterproductive at first when using a low block. But in Football Manager 23 terms, it is just reducing the gap between the defence and midfield, bringing them closer together. This is vital here because I am not using defensive midfielders due to favouring central midfielders instead. Player Roles Now we have an idea about the team instructions I’ve used, it’s time to try and understand the roles and their purpose. A wide centre-back is a player who plays in the centre-back position but is comfortable with the ball at their feet. This type of player is typically good at dribbling, passing, and ball control, and is comfortable playing out from the back and starting attacks. A wide centre-back is often used in teams that employ a high defensive line and an attacking style of play, as they are able to provide an additional attacking outlet and help the team to build play from the back. I’d not class the style of play we are creating here as an attacking style. But I still think the role is beneficial due to what we want the players to do. The wide centre-back can also be used as a deep-lying playmaker. In this sense, they can help build attacks like a ball-playing defender. The role seems to differ on Football Manager 23 compared to past versions too. It seems less attack orientated and doesn’t attack the same way as it did on Football Manager 2022. I’m not sure if it’s by design or a bug (that they’re less attacking). I need to investigate it further. But still, it’s a good role to use either way. A ball-playing defender, on the other hand, is a player who is comfortable with the ball at their feet and is able to play out from the back and initiate attacks. However, a ball-playing defender may not necessarily be as involved in the team's attacking play as a wide centre-back, in terms of moving high up the pitch, on a defensive duty, and may be more focused on their defensive duties. That’s why I’ve chosen the stopper role for him, so he steps up and tries to cut the ball out or deal with the threat. This then allows the central defender to cover and sweep up balls missed by either of the outer two defenders. Central midfielders: These players are responsible for linking up with the rest of the team and helping to facilitate the flow of the game. The central midfielders are often the engine of the team, covering a lot of ground and providing the link between the defence and the attack. The specific duties of the central midfielders in this set-up are; Controlling the tempo of the game and dictating the flow of play Connecting the defence and attack by providing passing options and moving the ball forward Supporting the defence by tracking back and helping to win the ball back Supporting the attack by staying deep and being able to recycle possession and keep the ball moving forward. Providing a physical presence and winning tackles and aerial duels in the midfield Maintaining positional discipline and providing defensive cover. In short, the central midfielders are versatile and important players who play a key role in the team's overall performance. If they chase the ball or are caught out of position, this then has a massive domino effect on how we play and we become less fluid. I’ve stated it a few times already but it’s imperative that they stay central and are positionally disciplined. The attacking midfielders: The advanced playmaker is tasked with creating scoring opportunities for the team. He is the main creative force in the final third and the striker and other attacking midfielder rely heavily on his creation. Without it, we’d struggle to create chances. The attacking midfielder, on the other hand, is a player who is responsible for both creating and finishing scoring opportunities. The key difference between the two is that an advanced playmaker is more focused on creating chances for others, while an attacking midfielder is more focused on both creating and finishing chances themselves. Additionally, an advanced playmaker is typically more involved in the build-up play and linking up with the rest of the team, while an attacking midfielder is more focused on making runs and getting into scoring positions. The Strikers: I sometimes change the striker role here and alternate between two different roles, depending on what I am needing from the game and how the opposition is playing. A false nine is a striker who drops deep into midfield, drawing the opposition centre backs out of position and creating space for other attackers to exploit. I find this role more beneficial when the opposition is using a low block or low defensive line. This is because the space you have to play in is in front of the defensive line. So someone dropping off to create space and movement can be essential. A pressing forward, on the other hand, is a player who aggressively presses and harries the opposition's defence in an effort to win back possession of the ball and get beyond the defensive line. I like to use this role against high blocks or defensive lines, due to the space we have to play in, being behind the defensive line. You could also use an advanced forward here if you wish but I like the pressing element of the pressing forward, he’s like a little Yorkshire Terrier, yapping at the opposition's heels. The key difference between the two is that a false nine is focused on creating space and opportunities for their teammates, while a pressing forward is focused on aggressively defending, pressing and winning the ball back from the front. The Beginning Of The End I was having a lot of success playing this way and used the above style for two seasons. I’m using a Brazilian league edit for the lower leagues and we were ranked 91st for possession at the end of the second season. But I played way more games than most as we made the knock-out stages of the league competition. So we played around 12 more games than most. In the State Championships, which we won, we ranked at the bottom of the average possession table. We didn’t fair much better in the Copa Do Brasil either, ranking 55th for average possession. 5-2-2-1 Tactic Examples The goalkeeper had the ball which meant the wide centreback and ball-playing defender dropped deeper and spread wide to give us passing options. The ball was played to the central centreback. But as soon as it’s played to him, you can see the opposition has already started to press us quite aggressively. They’re not going to give us much time on the ball at all, this is why I didn’t want us to play out from the back. As that would add an enormous amount of pressure on ourselves for no reason. I want the ball to move up the field quickly, to help the players beat the press. Asking them to pass it around more at the back or hold onto the ball for longer periods is risky in itself. You increase the risk of the opposition forcing an error or giving the ball away cheaply. We see how space opens up when the wide centreback receives the ball. Now he can drive forward here if he wants or has multiple passing options. Either way, we’ve beaten the initial press and now the opposition is shifting their position across the pitch to deal with the player in possession on the left side of the pitch. This is where wide centre-backs and ball-playing defenders excel. They can choose the safer passing options like the wingback or the attacking midfielder. But this isn’t why I’m using these roles, I want them to be riskier to open up the entire pitch with quick switches of play. What he does here is dwells on the ball for no more than a second or so. Once the opposition has shifted over more, he hits a risky ball between the pressing forward and the advanced playmaker, to run onto. One simple pass and he’s taken out five opposition players in one move. Now we are on the front foot and a possible 2v1 scenario. As we are the underdog in every game, we face this kind of press a lot. You need to be aware of these types of things when playing in the game, so you can adapt quickly. Had I not noticed the opposition playing this way early in the game, then I'd have still had the team instruction to play out of defence activated. And that could have cost us the game. We still commit numbers forward when we see there is a chance to attack. We also have plenty of support and passing options too or we can be really direct. Here we are direct and the wingback goes forward, crosses into the box to a free pressing forward, who heads the ball home to make it 1-0. Edited December 11, 2022 by Cleon 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cleon Posted December 11, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 11, 2022 (edited) The Next Chapter At the end of the second season, I was starting to get bored, tactically. Not because it wasn’t working or anything like that. It was just I started reading more real-life analysis and my mind started to go into overdrive with possible other formations I could use. But at the same time, it felt too early on the save to be starting again tactically, as we’ve not even reached the top league yet. So I began thinking and I started to ask, what if we flipped it around and began to have more possession? Now, the team is still terrible and expected to lose the majority of the games we have. But what if we began to dominate the ball and start using it differently, making the opposition chase us? To make it even more, what if we did this while still using the exact same player roles and showing you all how the system now plays differently? So here we are. The 5-2-2-1 Part Two A couple of weeks ago I wrote about possession football and in that article, we used a 4-3-3. But rather than adding that stuff to this article and bloating it even further, you can just read it yourself by following this link; https://www.viewfromthetouchline.com/2022/12/01/fm23-the-art-of-possession/ The 5-2-2-1 Possession Variant Possession football on Football Manager 2023 is a style of play that focuses on keeping possession of the ball and controlling the tempo of the game. It involves passing the ball around the pitch, using short passes to move the ball up the field, and keeping the ball away from the opposition. Possession football is a great way to wear down the opposition and create chances to score. Defending with possession football is a style of defending that focuses on keeping possession of the ball and using it to create defensive pressure. This style of defending is based on the idea that if a team can keep the ball, they can prevent the opposition from attacking and scoring. The team will look to keep the ball in their own half and use their passing and movement to create defensive pressure. This style of defending requires the team to be well-organized and disciplined. Here are some key bullet points of possession-based football: Focus on maintaining possession of the ball: The team aims to keep control of the ball and pass it around the pitch to avoid losing it to the opposition. Quick and precise passing: The players use short, sharp passes to move the ball around the pitch and create space for themselves and their teammates. Teamwork and coordination: The players work together as a unit and coordinate their movements to create passing lanes and support each other on the pitch. High defensive line: The team plays with a high defensive line, which means that the defenders are positioned close to the opposition's goal. This creates a compact shape and reduces the space available to the opposition. Patient build-up play: The team takes its time and builds up the attack slowly, moving the ball from one side of the pitch to the other and looking for gaps in the opposition's defence. Pressure on the opposition: The team applies pressure on the opposition when they are in possession of the ball, trying to win it back as quickly as possible. These are some of the key characteristics of possession-based football. It is a playing style that requires technical skill, tactical awareness, and teamwork. It can be effective when executed well, but it can also be vulnerable to counter-attacks and direct play if the opposition manages to break through the defence. So how do I now turn the original tactic into one that is now heavily possession-focused without changing the roles and duties? These are the main changes that now alter the way we play; Much shorter passing can have several benefits. First, it can help the team maintain possession of the ball, which is important for controlling the tempo of the game and preventing the other team from scoring. Short passes can also be more accurate than longer passes, which can help a team move the ball up the field more effectively and create scoring opportunities. Additionally, shorter passes can be used to open up space on the field and create gaps in the opposing team's defence. This can allow players to make runs into open space and receive the ball in dangerous positions near the goal. Overall, shorter passing can be an important strategy for teams looking to maintain possession and create scoring opportunities. This is why we’ve gone much shorter for the passing this time, to help maintain the possession of the ball. As in the other tactic, we used a slightly more direct passing style to help get the ball forward faster. We still want to move the ball forward fast if the player thinks that’s the best option. This will happen due to the mentality of the team. Playing out of defence, and building from the back involves passing the ball out of the defensive third of the pitch and into the midfield or attacking third. This can be done through a variety of methods, including short passes to teammates in midfield or longer passes to players in more advanced positions. The goal of playing out of defence is to create a more fluid and attacking style of play and to move the ball up the field in a controlled and organized manner. This can be an effective way to create scoring opportunities and prevent the opposing team from counter-attacking. It can also help to alleviate pressure on the defence by allowing them to pass the ball out of tight situations and avoid conceding possession cheaply. We also have the ball-playing defender and the wide centre-back who can really mix the style of play up here and hit those balls to the attacking players. So we can still hit it long like described above or be direct when the player and his role dictate so. It can also be risky too though, especially if the opposition is playing a high-pressing game. As I highlighted in the first part of the article. So if you play out of defence, you should likely keep an eye on the game and how it’s playing it. Sometimes it can be the reason why your defenders give silly balls away or get caught in possession of the ball. Low crosses are typically played into the penalty area, where they can be difficult for defenders to clear and can provide opportunities for attackers to get shots on goal. They are often used when there is a player making a run into the penalty area and can be particularly effective if the attacking team has a player who is good at getting onto the end of such crosses and scoring goals. How Do We Use The Ball? The way we use the ball has drastically changed, obviously. Before we jump into the analysis though, let's take a look at what our possession stats are like now after the changes. As you can see, here in the League with the same players as last time but now in a higher division, we averaged way more possession. It’s a significant increase. Last season we avered 42% possession in this competition and got 65% this season with the same players. Controlling Games How we control games has drastically changed and we no longer try to concede possession. Now we aim to keep the ball to nullify the opposition. We also try and dictate the pace of the game by slowing the tempo of it down. You might have noticed in the team instructions that I’ve asked the goalkeeper to distribute the ball quickly. I mentioned this elsewhere on our Discord recently as people thought it was contradictory to the style of play we were creating. So I had to explain why it wasn’t. The gist of it is this; Distributing the ball quickly allows us to build from the back and catch the opposition out of position. We might be playing a possession game but we still mix up play from time to time, especially from the back due to us using the wide centreback and the ball-playing defender. I’ve mentioned them several times in this article already but they’re a massive part of the way we transition from defence to attack. They are equally comfortable with playing out from the back slowly and connecting the midfield with short intricate passing. Or they can go long and put dangerous balls over the top for the strikers to chase down. They’re very unpredictable for the opposition to figure out. It’s probably one of the best changes on Football Manager 2023 so far in my opinion. You can finally build a system that has lots of variety in terms of central defenders and what they are instructed to do. On past versions, I felt the type of defender who could split lines from deep was missing. But not anymore. This would have been some goal had we scored this. We used the width of the pitch and switched play to different sides on a few occasions during this move. Passing and moving involves quick, short passes between players, followed by movement off the ball to create space and open up passing lanes. The idea is to keep possession of the ball and move it around the field quickly, while also making it difficult for the other team to defend. To execute the pass-and-move tactic effectively, players need to be constantly moving and looking for opportunities to receive the ball, and they must be willing to make quick, decisive passes to their teammates. This is where the roles and duties you use play a vital part in this. The majority of my player roles are support duties. This allows players to be in close proximity to each other and no one is positionally too far up the pitch. Another factor here is our attacking width, it’s fairly narrow. Again, this is intended and by design. We still had width, the wingbacks will always provide us with that. But it also means players don’t have large gaps between the next person and this actually, allows us to build a slow patient probing game all the way up the pitch. We don’t need to rush play. Instead, we favour quick, snappy passes between the players at times. The important thing here is to build something that functions as a solid unit. Everything from our mentality, team instructions, player roles and so on, all have a purpose and allow us to do the things I wanted to create as part of my style's DNA. I know it can be hard to do these things, especially when you are trying to understand how everything links together. But I hope these articles shed light on this for you and give you ideas to take away and use and try in your own saved games. This was the move shown above with the passing map. As you can see we are patient and probing while using the entire pitch. You can see the opposition chasing us around and this, in turn, creates space for us. We aren’t afraid of going backwards with the ball if needed or back across to the other side of the pitch. The space really opens up when we pass across the pitch though as the opposition has to shift over very quickly but it’s too late. We already have players between the lines and in space. If the central midfielders or the attacking midfielders, were on attacking duties they’d likely be too advanced up the pitch to be involved in the build-up phase. You can see the combination play on the left-hand side between the wide centreback, wingback and central midfielder. With the way they combine and move up the pitch, they’re looking to trigger the opposition's press. When this happens the attacking midfielder on that side of the pitch will make a darting run trying to get beyond the defender. If you look at his positioning, he is playing between the fullback and centreback and is very dangerous. If the players decide to play it more direct, they would also be in a very dangerous place to either create something themselves or take a shot. When analysing if something works or not, it's just as important to watch what the players not involved in the phase of play are doing too. This can tell you a lot about your tactic and the way you play in general. When I speak about runners, this is the type of stuff I’m generally alluding to. You want runners running off the ball, beyond the defence and causing an issue. Like the attacking midfielders in the sequence of play in the video. Lailton who eventually takes the shot sometimes is really close to the pressing forward. But this is down to him being the advanced playmaker and he is constantly moving and dropping back in search of the ball. He also takes up little pockets of space and is really hard to mark. In fact, he’s unmarked in the entire 31-second clip. When looking at your own systems be aware of how important it is to know what your players are or aren’t doing. It can be the difference between the shot in this example happening or not happening. If the advanced playmaker was more static and didn’t roam about as much, he’d have likely never been in a position to not only receive the ball but also to take the shot. Earlier in the article, I spoke about how important it was for the central midfielders to just sit so we can recycle possession or keep the attacking pressure on if the AI, clear the ball. This is exactly what happened above. This allows us to regain possession and pass it back around while keeping the pressure on the opposition and forcing them to carry on defending deep. Due to the central midfielders being able to pick up the ball, we now create another goal-scoring chance. He passes the ball to the ball-playing defender, who then passes to the advanced playmaker. While this is happening the wingback is making a forward run and is totally unmarked. The advanced playmaker plays the wingback who then is able to carry on his run into the box. He then puts the ball past the goalkeeper at the near post and puts us into the lead. The Right Balance There’s more to a system having lots of possession though. Some of you dislike it when I say this as you don’t agree and that’s fine. But in my opinion, in Football Manager terms, there is such a thing as too much possession. At a certain point, your chance creation suffers and so does the shot quality. If a team has the ball for long periods of time without creating any meaningful chances or putting pressure on the other team's defence, they may start to lose momentum and become predictable. This can allow the other team to get organized and start to defend more effectively, making it difficult for the team with too much possession to break through and score. It is important for teams to find a balance between maintaining possession and creating scoring opportunities so that they can keep the other team on their toes and prevent them from gaining an advantage. Sometimes it happens in my game and if I’m not paying attention it could really impact the result. In the image above I won the game while having 82% of the possession. That seems really impressive as it was a competitive match too. But as we delve deeper it's not as good as it looks. I always tell people that I aim to have 50% of the shots we have, to be on target. I think the real-life numbers are somewhere closer to 37-39%. But I think a good gauge in Football Manager is to aim for 50% which should be manageable for most people give or take a couple of per cent. We did that in the screenshot above. However, the quality of the shots was really poor and the xG reflects this. We were unable to create anything meaningful because in this game I wasn’t paying attention and just wanted the game to play out, so I could have an example to use. The opposition was very stubborn and disciplined in defence so they made it really hard for us. We were basically living off scraps and the two goals we scored came from set pieces. Without these two set-piece goals, it would look like we dominated the game and from a possession standpoint, we did. But when you start to break it down with chance creation and shot quality it becomes clear we were poor. If the opposition had counterattacked better and been able to grab a goal against the run of the play, we’d have lost. It’s why we see so many people think they dominate games and the opposition hit them with a sucker punch because the context of how you are playing is vital. I’ve likely waffled on for way too long during this article already so I’ll likely end it here. I did have lots more to add in terms of analysis but I’ll do a follow-up article for that. As I’m going to tie it to the actual data from the game into the analysis, to show how we can use the data hub and various other things to find the good and bad about your systems. Then I can show you how to use that data to make changes or spot issues in a game environment. That in itself is likely another huge 5k+ words, so would be far too much to incorporate into this one Edited December 11, 2022 by Cleon 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 11, 2022 Author Share Posted December 11, 2022 Hope you enjoy. I'll keep adding to this thread as it'll mainly be tactical/training Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Brilliant. Was waiting for this. It's not like i have the right players to change to this tactic, but I do like to see how genius thinks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikcheck Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Thanks for another article @Cleon Which style you prefer between those you've presented us? A lower block or a possession playing style? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renato Aragão Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Looks like a great challenge!! Looking forward for this one. Do you mind me asking what database you used for Brazil @Cleon??? I couldnt find any good one at the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 2 hours ago, phnompenhandy said: Brilliant. Was waiting for this. It's not like i have the right players to change to this tactic, but I do like to see how genius thinks. Well, hang on a cotton pickin' minute here - I'm gonna have to take this comment back. I THOUGHT I didn't have the players, but I tried it for the heck of it - and WOAH! I've gone with the high-possession version and won 4-0 with 73 progressive passes and 124 final third passes (the oppo had15 and 7, plus 2 off-target shots). Players getting mediocre ratings suddenly blossom, others festering in my reserves turn out to be damn good wingbacks in this set up. I'm a lower league manager with Loch Ness FC, expected to struggle - I'm supposed to be using a stereotypical counter-attacking direct style. I knew it didn't suit my slow squad with poor passing, but I never imagined this would be the solution. Direct passing was just gifting the ball to the opposition; this super-short passing style is a revelation. The lack of quickness led me to set up with an ultra-low D-line and low block - I did not expect to survive with a high D-line and high LoE - but it worked, with my 3 DCs looking nicely composed. Previously with that set-up neither of my 2 DCs could get through 90 minutes, so I always had 2 of my 3 subs booked in - no longer - the XI use up less energy with the high line despite the pressing. It works. It not only works - it's beautiful to watch. Thanks, Cleon! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 11, 2022 Author Share Posted December 11, 2022 3 hours ago, mikcheck said: Thanks for another article @Cleon Which style you prefer between those you've presented us? A lower block or a possession playing style? Both are good in their own right and produce the same result. I don't have one that I prefer out of the styles. I'm already thinking towards how I can adapt it to be something else. But that's a me thing, I get bored playing the season way for multiple season. 2 hours ago, Renato Aragão said: Looks like a great challenge!! Looking forward for this one. Do you mind me asking what database you used for Brazil @Cleon??? I couldnt find any good one at the moment It's the Mundiup one. My Brazilian friend send it me. 49 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said: Well, hang on a cotton pickin' minute here - I'm gonna have to take this comment back. I THOUGHT I didn't have the players, but I tried it for the heck of it - and WOAH! I've gone with the high-possession version and won 4-0 with 73 progressive passes and 124 final third passes (the oppo had15 and 7, plus 2 off-target shots). Players getting mediocre ratings suddenly blossom, others festering in my reserves turn out to be damn good wingbacks in this set up. I'm a lower league manager with Loch Ness FC, expected to struggle - I'm supposed to be using a stereotypical counter-attacking direct style. I knew it didn't suit my slow squad with poor passing, but I never imagined this would be the solution. Direct passing was just gifting the ball to the opposition; this super-short passing style is a revelation. The lack of quickness led me to set up with an ultra-low D-line and low block - I did not expect to survive with a high D-line and high LoE - but it worked, with my 3 DCs looking nicely composed. Previously with that set-up neither of my 2 DCs could get through 90 minutes, so I always had 2 of my 3 subs booked in - no longer - the XI use up less energy with the high line despite the pressing. It works. It not only works - it's beautiful to watch. Thanks, Cleon! Ha my players are also very poor. I'd be shocked if any of them had double digits for attributes and I started in the Brazilian 6th tier, so as you can imagine not easy. I think there's a misconception in general that you can't play beautiful football in the lower leagues like Man City, Barca etc do. But you actually can. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkdsoul Posted December 11, 2022 Share Posted December 11, 2022 Ooh, cool lets see how this bugger works then. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
뜨페이뜨 Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 It has nothing to do with the article, but can I ask for the tactical article for 1982 Brazil? Previously written https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/363887-the-art-of-analysis-and-tweaking-the-brazilian-box-4-2-2-2/ I read this article very impressed. I wonder how you would describe the Brazilian tactics in 1982. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 12 hours ago, 뜨페이뜨 said: It has nothing to do with the article, but can I ask for the tactical article for 1982 Brazil? Previously written https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/363887-the-art-of-analysis-and-tweaking-the-brazilian-box-4-2-2-2/ I read this article very impressed. I wonder how you would describe the Brazilian tactics in 1982. It would likely need another thread of its own for this, as the subject is really detailed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
뜨페이뜨 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 45 minutes ago, Cleon said: It would likely need another thread of its own for this, as the subject is really detailed. It doesn't matter how long it takes. Can I ask you a favor? Flamengo's tactical analysis is more curious, but there are also difficult and trivial parts. So I'd like to ask for the 1982 Brazilian tactic. I wonder how you interpret the position of my favorite Zico player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 18 minutes ago, 뜨페이뜨 said: It doesn't matter how long it takes. Can I ask you a favor? Flamengo's tactical analysis is more curious, but there are also difficult and trivial parts. So I'd like to ask for the 1982 Brazilian tactic. I wonder how you interpret the position of my favorite Zico player. I'm not sure I have the time for anything like this. I already have lots of stuff planned and started already that I need to finish. I did a big analysis piece on the 70's Brazilian side though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
뜨페이뜨 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Cleon said: 이런 일을 할 시간이 있는지 잘 모르겠습니다. 나는 이미 많은 일을 계획하고 시작했으며 끝내야 할 일이 있습니다. 그래도 70년대 브라질 쪽에서 큰 분석을 했습니다. okay.. thank you for your answer Regarding Brazil, is this correct? I can't see the picture now. https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/363887-the-art-of-analysis-and-tweaking-the-brazilian-box-4-2-2-2/ Edited December 13, 2022 by 뜨페이뜨 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, 뜨페이뜨 said: okay.. thank you for your answer Regarding Brazil, is this correct? I can't see the picture now. https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/363887-the-art-of-analysis-and-tweaking-the-brazilian-box-4-2-2-2/ Yes. But I wrote about the 4-2-2-2 last year and did a book all about it. So it's more upto date. It can be found here; https://www.viewfromthetouchline.com/2022/08/19/football-manager-playbook-released/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
뜨페이뜨 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Cleon said: 예. 그러나 나는 작년에 4-2-2-2에 대해 썼고 그것에 관한 모든 것을 책으로 썼습니다. 그래서 더 최신입니다. 여기에서 찾을 수 있습니다. https://www.viewfromthetouchline.com/2022/08/19/football-manager-playbook-released/ It must have been difficult for you to understand because my English is not good enough. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMourinho Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) Brilliant thread Cleon. I really enjoy your writing and looking forward to reading more. What skin do you use here by the way? I like the tactics screen. Edited December 13, 2022 by MrMourinho Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, MrMourinho said: Brilliant thread Cleon. I really enjoy your writing and looking forward to reading more. What skin do you use here by the way? I like the tactics screen. It's this one; Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 18, 2022 Author Share Posted December 18, 2022 Currently in the middle of writing some analysis and data pieces on the 5-2-2-1 and how I use the data to refine the system. As well, as using the data to identify issues and fix them. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpassosbh Posted December 21, 2022 Share Posted December 21, 2022 On 18/12/2022 at 07:22, Cleon said: Currently in the middle of writing some analysis and data pieces on the 5-2-2-1 and how I use the data to refine the system. As well, as using the data to identify issues and fix them. This will be great. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cleon Posted December 21, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2022 Thanks. I'm about 4k words in so far and posted a little snippet on social media earlier. But I'll post it here too to wet the appetite; I've seen a lot of confusion surrounding the defensive line and the new settings step up, drop off more. So here is a little something from an article I am writing; I use a high defensive line but in this scenario, we are slightly deeper than usual due to the shape of the opposition and how they set up. This impacts your own defensive line and can push it back. It’s worth noting that even with a high defensive line, it will look slightly different from game to game. So don’t expect high to always mean pushed up to the halfway line, lots of factors can alter the initial position. So here we can see the defensive line we are holding. The opposition player, Souza is going to drive forward or pass the ball. This is where your defensive line setting kicks into action. If you don’t use the step-up or drop-off more instructions then the defensive line will just behave like usual. But if you use the step-up instruction then in the image above, the players will be looking to step up at this point. As they know there is possible danger and you’ve instructed them to step up. So they’d look to reduce the space between the ball carrier/passer and play the attacking players offside. With the step-up team instruction, you are possibly conceding space behind your defensive line to reduce the space in front of them between the ball and themselves. If we were using the drop-off more instruction then they’ll be more cautious and if no one is pressing the ball immediately, then they’ll begin to drop deeper. So in this type of scenario, you’d conceded space in front of the defence to reduce the space behind them. This can be handy for cutting out those direct balls to the attackers or balls played over the top behind your defensive line. Rather than your defensive line remaining high and increasing the chance they’ll get turned and beat for pace you can minimise the risk of this as they retreat backwards. Allowing you to stay tight and compact. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aoyao Posted December 22, 2022 Share Posted December 22, 2022 18 hours ago, Cleon said: Thanks. I'm about 4k words in so far and posted a little snippet on social media earlier. But I'll post it here too to wet the appetite; I've seen a lot of confusion surrounding the defensive line and the new settings step up, drop off more. So here is a little something from an article I am writing; you’d conceded space in front of the defence to reduce the space behind them. This can be handy for cutting out those direct balls to the attackers or balls played over the top behind your defensive line. Rather than your defensive line remaining high and increasing the chance they’ll get turned and beat for pace you can minimise the risk of this as they retreat backwards. Allowing you to stay tight and compact. lol.Sounds like I'd better in the DROP OFF MORE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
뜨페이뜨 Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 I'd like to ask you a question. In the 4231 tactic, amc is at the center of the team and is preparing tactics to make it an ace. May I ask for some advice on this? I want to be the ace of the perfect team like maradona, pele, zico and platini. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted December 29, 2022 Share Posted December 29, 2022 I used the 5-2-2-1 here for 4 months in my last season, when it worked great until it didn't. Now I'm returning to it and combining it with the insights from this video FM23 | Burton Albion - England DNA | Youth Academy Only | E1 Introduction to the England DNA - which I found thanks to a link from Cleon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 29, 2022 Author Share Posted December 29, 2022 5 hours ago, 뜨페이뜨 said: I'd like to ask you a question. In the 4231 tactic, amc is at the center of the team and is preparing tactics to make it an ace. May I ask for some advice on this? I want to be the ace of the perfect team like maradona, pele, zico and platini. It all depends on the rest of the setup. This thread is likely the wrong one for the question. Perhaps create a new thread with how you set up, what you're wanting etc and people can contribute to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted December 31, 2022 Author Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) PART ONE This article - FM23: Data and Analysis to Enhance Team Tactics and Formations talks you through how I approach the game and use this data to shape my own tactics. I take a deep dive and discuss how I use the data and analysis to find issues, and attempt to fix them, amongst a whole host of other things too. FM23: Data and Analysis Introduction One of the key ways that teams can use data and analysis to improve their formations is by studying game footage to identify areas of strength and weakness. For example, a team may notice that they are having difficulty creating scoring opportunities from open play, and may use data and analysis to identify the reasons for this issue. This could involve studying the positions of their players during attacking phases, and using performance-tracking systems to measure factors such as the distance between players and their movement patterns. Another way that teams can use data and analysis to improve their formations is by analyzing player stats and team tactics. For example, a team may notice that their formation is not allowing them to maintain possession of the ball effectively, and may use data to identify which players are losing the ball most frequently and where they are losing it. This information can then be used to make changes to the team's formation and tactics, such as adjusting the positions of certain players or using different types of passes to maintain possession. Overall, the use of data and analysis in football is becoming increasingly important, and teams are using these tools to identify and solve issues with their formations, as well as to plan for upcoming games. By studying game footage, analyzing player stats and team tactics, and using technology such as performance tracking systems, teams can gain valuable insights into their performance and make informed decisions about how to improve their formations and tactics. For example, a team may use data to identify areas of the field where they are most likely to score goals and focus on taking shots from these areas during games. Similarly, a player may use data to identify their most accurate shooting areas and work on improving their shooting from other areas of the field. Stag’s Performance-Tracking Above when I was talking about real-life football, I mentioned performance-tracking systems on a few occasions. When I’m talking about this in Football Manager terms, I’m talking about things like Stag discusses. I’ll just link to his work as I couldn’t do it justice even if I wanted to. Additional Statistics in FM Statistics – What does “good” look like in FM23? These should give you an idea of how Stag created his performance-tracking systems and the data provided, to highlight how they work and what they track. When it comes to data on Football Manager, he is the person to follow, so check his work out. Along with these performance-tracking metrics, wkdsoul (Gaz) also added Stag’s metrics into a tab on an attributeless skin. That can be found here; https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/571014-fm23-hodr-skin-attributeless-starless/ This is a great way of using Stag’s excellent data and metrics inside the game making it easier for you. For me, this has been one of the best addition to a Football Manager skin for a long-time. It allows me to get a quick snapshot of the data and how well my players are playing according to the data. Remember that the data is subjective though and that a low metric score, is fine if you don’t expect the player to be doing those actions which score lower. There is only you who knows what you are wanting from your team and tactics, so the data and what is good for you will differ drastically from the above. Stags' work is a brilliant starting point to adapt it for your own saves and decide which metrics are important to you. Combining FM23: Data and Analysis Once you’ve got a general idea of what data and metrics you’ll be using then it’s time to try applying this to your saved games by analysing games and the data. Next Opponent In addition to using data and analysis to identify and solve issues with your formations, you can also use these tools to plan for upcoming games. For example, you can use data to study the strengths and weaknesses of your opponent and adjust their formation and tactics accordingly. If you’ve assigned a scout and analyst to scout the next opposition, then in the data hub, the next opponent tab should resemble something like the above. Along with this, you should also have stuff under the team you are facings, team report. You can access that by going to the team you are playing and then choosing the team report tab. Some of the stuff you see under this tab overlap with the datahub but there is also information here you can’t find elsewhere. So if you really want to understand the opposition and see what their strengths and weaknesses are, then you should pay attention to these pages along with the data hub. Before we jump back to the data hub let’s take a quick look at the information we can access on the team report page and how we can use that to our advantage. On the overview above we can see what their best starting 11 is and have a rough idea of what role they play. Then on the right, we have a quick snapshot of the analyst report too. We can see that Sport Club do Recife are performing well above the league's average metrics. As a snapshot, we can see they’ll be no pushovers. FM23: Data and Analysis Strengths and Weakness If we dig a little bit deeper into the scout report, we can see the strengths and weakness page; Personally speaking here, I don’t really use this page much but still wanted to highlight it and talk about ways you could possibly use it. The reason I don’t use it is I don’t think a lot of the information in the weaknesses is that helpful to me, especially as I’m attributeless. So I’m aware of my own players too. From the strengths, we can see that they have a few relating to goalkeepers. Straight away we know this is a strength and just exactly how by the descriptions. So what we’ve learnt here is; Aerial reach Keepers like to catch the ball They can organise their defence with a strong command of the area. If we wanted to use this information to our advantage then we know any type of crosses into the box from open play or set pieces will likely fail or have to be very accurate to find success. Now, I play a possession-based brand of football and limit crosses. You can find more about the actual tactic I’m using here, rather than me posting about it here. As it was the last part of this series we did; The 5-2-2-1: A Comprehensive Guide So for me, crossing won’t be a big deal as we look to retain the ball and do passes to feet rather than play an aerial game. But if you did play a crossing game then you could find your usual play might not be an effective strategy. It’s something you’d either need to adapt for before the game or (this is what I’d do if it was me) keep an eye on during the game. This way you could see exactly how it was impacting you, if at all. This is my preferred method of playing, adapting to the game based on the actual context of how the match is playing out. You could do it before the game starts but that’s a lot of guesswork and there’s nothing to say your players can’t be successful. But it is certainly something you need to be aware of and ready to adapt to if it does actually cause issues during the game. In the weaknesses, we again also see a lot related to the goalkeepers. Bad reflexes Poor at one on ones It suggests they have low handling So the opposite of the strengths, which means we could take advantage of this by trying to isolate the goalkeepers and get them into one on one situations. We could perhaps try and get our attacking players into areas that will force the goalkeepers to dive across the goal or try to hold onto the ball. Every set-up will be different how they could do this. But if we are talking about the 5-2-2-1 formation we use, then our two attacking midfielders and the striker will be vital here. Things we could attempt to do here would be; Shoot on sight to take advantage of the bad handling Make the attacking midfielders more aggressive with a role or duty change Pass into space to encourage the attacking trio to run onto the ball, rather than having it passed to their feet. All of the above would be good ways of trying to test the goalkeepers, reflexes, handling and possible one on ones. It also says the squad in general is poor at positioning, concentration, anticipation, work rate and much more as I scroll down the list. This can all tie into what we do above. We could also maybe try and take advantage of this in other ways too. Higher tempo More direct passing More attacking width A higher tempo would see us moving the ball around faster and players being more hurried in their approach overall. This can unsettle the opposition and you can take advantage of any positional issues they have. More direct passing will also do the same and could take advantage of bad positioning along with a lack of concentration. If the scout is saying they have low concentration then it’s obvious that they switch off and can’t stay focused for a full 90 minutes. Attacking width can really stretch the player as it increases the positioning between your own players, meaning the opposition would have to account for this somehow. We know they lack concentration and general work rate too. So if we are asking the opposition to do more and faster with the other changes, then we have the potential to take advantage of all the weaknesses I’ve mentioned so far. I’ll not list all the weaknesses as I’ve already mentioned I don’t use them and just wanted to give you a few brief examples of how we can use this to our own advantage. It’s also important to note there that if you do adapt and make changes to take advantage of their weaknesses then you will likely stray from your own tactical approach and style. So just be wary of that when adapting to the opposition. If you adapt too much you lose your own identity so try and find the middle ground and correct balance for you. Comparison Now as I’m attributeless this page is useless for me as it doesn’t show anything. But in essence, it gives you the average of all your attributes compared to the opposition. Here you can see how you pit against them based on attributes. The general tab shows you things like average age, international caps and so on. So you don’t really get anything useful from this tab. On the other tabs though you can see how your defence matches up to the opposition and so on. Then you can even compare physical, mental and technical attributes. This information can be very useful if you want to target certain areas of the pitch. While initially, it compares your defence vs the opposition's defence, for example, we can still match this up with other areas. If we know the opposition's defence has a low average in this category and our attack has better jumping, speed, finishing, heading and so on. We could then perhaps try and target this area to take advantage of it. Things we could try are; Speed advantage - We can ask players to try and get in behind the opposition more. You can do this with team or player instructions such as passing into space, crossing early or running at the defence more. All of this would allow the player to use his speed. When I’m talking about speed here though I’m purely talking about acceleration. Pace would only be useful if it was a distance of 20 yards or similar, as this is a player's top speed. In shorter distances, he is hardly going to use this. So acceleration becomes more vital in these types of scenarios. As that is the player's ability to reach his pace from a still position. But to actually reach the top of his pace he’d require time and distance. You can apply the above logic to other areas too. Or if you’re the team who is lacking in an area, you can try and reduce the impact. So if we reverse the roles above and you’re the one lacking the speed advantage then here is what you could do to try and reduce the possible weakness. Defensive Line - This is your best friend when you lack speed. If you believe your players are mentally strong then playing with a high line when you lack speed shouldn’t be a major issue. As the players should be strong enough mentally to be in the correct positions and react better. But if they don’t then it’s likely going to be a massive issue. Mental attributes can offset any physical or technical attributes in my opinion. Mental attributes are essentially how intelligent the player is and intelligence outweighs everything for me. If your defence is lacking in both speed and mental aspects then perhaps playing a more standard defensive line could be beneficial. As can perhaps use a sweeper keeper to help with the balls that are played over the top of the defence. You can also still use a high defensive line even if they lack in all areas but perhaps take a more cautious approach and use the following setting; Drop Off team instruction - This instruction is a defensive line modifier to how you want it to behave. So even if you are using a high line, you can still use this instruction. It then instructs the defensive players to be more cautious when someone is in a possibly dangerous situation. The players should drop deeper and be warier of danger. Let me show you a visual of how it should work in the game, to better explain the actions you should expect from the defenders. I use a high defensive line but in this scenario, we are slightly deeper than usual due to the shape of the opposition and how they set up. This impacts your own defensive line and can push it back. It’s worth noting that even with a high defensive line, it will look slightly different from game to game. So don’t expect high to always mean pushed up to the halfway line, lots of factors can alter the initial position. So here we can see the defensive line we are holding. The opposition player, Souza is going to drive forward or pass the ball. This is where your defensive line setting kicks into action. If you don’t use the step-up or drop-off more instructions then the defensive line will just behave like usual. But if you use the step-up instruction then in the image above, the players will be looking to step up at this point. As they know there is possible danger and you’ve instructed them to step up. So they’d look to reduce the space between the ball carrier/passer and play the attacking players offside. With the step-up team instruction, you are possibly conceding space behind your defensive line to reduce the space in front of them between the ball and themselves. If we were using the drop-off more instruction then they’ll be more cautious and if no one is pressing the ball immediately, then they’ll begin to drop deeper. So in this type of scenario, you’d conceded space in front of the defence to reduce the space behind them. This can be handy for cutting out those direct balls to the attackers or balls played over the top behind your defensive line. Rather than your defensive line remaining high and increasing the chance they’ll get turned and beat for pace, you can minimise the risk of this as they retreat backwards. Allowing you to stay tight and compact. Jack Joyce who works on the match engine team for Football Manager, also posted about these settings. That post can be found here; https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/569916-step-up-more-drop-off-more-do-they-work/?do=findComment&comment=13808125 This is just one of the ways you can use this information and try and eliminate such issues. I’ll not write more about this page as I don’t have access to it but wanted to show you how you can use this information in your own save. Before we move on to the team performance section of the article it’s also worth noting that the stats page of the team report can also be useful. Here we can get a quick snapshot of the basic stats and who is the best and worse at them. If you click on the little boxes it will take you to the team's overview page and will have filtered the stats to show you the entire metrics for the team in that particular thing. You could use this page to find a possible weakness and try to exploit it. Or to identify a specific player, like the best passer, and check what position they play. If they’re a playmaker then you know that the likelihood is, the majority of the play goes through them. You could try and cut the supply off or mark the player tighter to try and limit how influential he could be. FM23: Data and Analysis Team Performance When watching a Football Manager game either in real-time or after the match, many things can be looked at to gain insights into a team's performance. Some common things to look out for include the positioning and movements of individual players, the team's formation and tactics, and the overall flow and tempo of the game. For example, when I watch footage of a game, I look at the positioning of the players during the attacking and defensive phases. This could involve analysing the distance between players, the movements of individual players, and the positions they adopt when receiving the ball. By studying these factors, I can identify any issues with their positioning and movement, and make adjustments to improve their performance. Or perhaps I don’t change anything and just make either a written or mental note about the things I am seeing happen. It’s important not to be rash with my decisions and change things without seeing why something happens. Tactics and Formation Analysis In addition to looking at player positioning and movement, I can also watch games to study the team's formation and tactics. This could involve analysing the team's overall formation, as well as the specific roles and responsibilities of individual players. By studying these factors, I can identify any issues with the formation and tactics, and make adjustments to enhance their performance. Overall, when watching a game, there are many things to look out for, including player positioning and movement, team formation and tactics, and the overall flow and tempo of the game. By studying these factors, I can gain valuable insights into their performance and make informed decisions about how to improve and what our real weaknesses are. My focus here is purely on what my own team does, I don’t pay attention to the AI or what they’re doing. If my team plays like how I’ve instructed then we’ll be successful. I want to force my style of play and tactics on the AI. I don’t want to be the one who is always adapting and losing sight of what we are building. That doesn’t mean I won’t change things but for 99% of things, I only change if something we are doing, isn't working. FM23: Data and Analysis General Performance Data Now we can move on to the data hub and show how I use it to see how we are performing. These are our metrics at the end of the season for our first season in Brazil’s top division the Brasileirão - Série A. At first glance, the metrics don’t look too bad although we seem to be underperforming in a few of them. This is where things can get tricky when learning how to interpret this data. There are a few things we need to account for here; Expectation Squad Quality Playing Style We were a newly promoted side who were expected to get relegated straight back to the Brasileirão - Série B. But we didn’t, we managed to stay competitive throughout the season and beat expectations. That doesn’t mean we dominated though or had a squad capable of dominating every aspect of the game. We focused on specific aspects to excel at, which we will discuss further in the article. The quality of the squad was always going to be an issue. Last season the chairman sold our four best players for around £25 million and only gave us £500k to replace them. Which was understandable as we were haemorrhaging money at an alarming rate. Nonetheless, we managed to bring in a few decent players on free transfers. No one is really spectacular but enough to give us bodies and replace the positions we lost. Although the quality of those brought in wasn’t as good as the ones I lost. I then had to decide how we were going to play at the start of the season. The season before I’d changed our playing style from a low possession one to one that craves possession, which I linked a little earlier in the article. It worked well over the season and got us promoted. So I decided we’d stick with that style. What this meant was, to stop the opposition from hurting us with the ball, we have to retain possession at all costs. We didn’t have the quality in the side to go toe to toe with other teams as there’s some real heavyweights in this division. But if we dominate possession and time on the ball, we eliminate a lot of the opposition's threats. Playing this way would also allow us to attempt to keep it tight at the back and if you can keep clean sheets, then you always have a chance of gaining points. All you need is to take your chances and be clinical at the other end and you have a winning combination. This is what we attempted to do. So the key points for our season became; Retain possession at all costs Keep clean sheets Take our chances Don’t be reckless overall Now if we go back to the polygon above we can see I completed a lot of passes. We had a really high shot-on-target ratio which shows we aren’t being wasteful because we also had a higher goal-per-game ratio compared to the rest of the league too. Yet our expected goals were lower than the rest of the league's average as were our shots per game. Overall I’m happy with our general performance overall initially. But while we are clinical it seems, the actual shot quality we have is quite poor. At some point, this will work against us. There is only so far and for so long that you can have success with poor shot quality, regardless of how clinical you are. Sooner or later the goals will dry up and those 1-0 wins we’ve had this year could become 0-0’s or even losses if our defence isn’t as strong too. So we need to make a note of this and delve deeper into the reasonings behind why it’s way below the league's average. The low frequency of shots doesn’t bother me so much, as this was our intention. But perhaps we are keeping the ball more than we need to be. Yes, we’ve managed to overachieve this season but that happens when the things that went n our favour this year, start going against us. We will be in major trouble. This is why we have to study the context in which you win games and play in general. You can have a fantastic season as I have but still be poor. If you want any type of consistency over a large period of time then you need to build a foundation that allows it. I’m not at that point yet and have lots of work to do. Possession You can see we attempt passes at a rate much higher than the league's average. We can also see the areas we are attempting the passes from. Due to us playing out from the back there aren’t any real surprises here and the 24% and 37% of passes in these areas should be expected. We have an image now that shows we seem to attempt the most passes just before the halfway line. There don’t seem to be many passes attempted deep in the final third of the opposition's half though. 6% seems really low, is this a contributing factor to the low quality of chances I mentioned a few moments ago? It seems like they could be connected. There are many reasons why this is happening though. What I’d do here is either make a mental note or write it down, so that later on, when we start the match analysis, I know what to look for. Not many final third passes attempted Low shot quality Those are the main two factors we need to explore in more detail. It’s possible they’re both linked and part of the same issue. But we won’t know that until we start the analysis. This just confirms what we already knew, that we have a high pass completion rate and we pass more than any other side. This screen is interesting as it gives us a little more insight into if our possession game is working or not. We lose possession less than any other side in the league which is a good indication of our playing style working. It shows we aren’t losing the ball much and reinforces the passing completed scatter graph. Our possessions won per game is low though but that is likely due to us retaining the ball way above the average. Meaning we don’t have to win the ball back as much as other teams in the league. I suspect our winning possessions just before the halfway line is a byproduct of our pressing game. As we use a high defensive line and aggressive press, it’s these sorts of areas I would expect us to win the ball back. Especially when our midfield is the strongest area of our tactic. I’d be really worried if we didn’t dominate this area. We seem to be doing well winning the ball in deep areas too. A player records a lost possession any time he loses the ball in any way, be it a failed dribble, incomplete pass, going offside or any other action that results in his team losing possession. So this is again expected due to the 5-2-2-1 formation we are using being strongest in central midfield areas. This is where we have the most players at any given time, so losing possession here is expected. It’s also worth noting that I also use ball-playing defenders too as they can often attempt to launch defence-splitting passes. Or risky passes in general from deep areas into the kind of area where we are recording lost possessions the most. It could be worth double-checking this when we do some match analysis to confirm if this is part of the issue or not. Teams producing a high number of final third passes against us are likely down to the high defensive line we employ. The way we play high up the pitch makes this a vulnerable area for is, if the defensive line is breached. This could be from being caught high up the pitch, balls over the top or their own defence-splitting passes. I don’t think the numbers against us are that worrying though and seem to be in line with other teams who finished near the top of the table. We can be pretty happy with these metrics I feel and they don’t reveal any major issues. Finally, we have the passing dynamic scatter graph that could be another indication of our press working. Teams complete a low number of passes against us which could be related to a number of things, all of which could be down to our tactic and playing style. One of those is that the press is working and we aren’t giving the opposition much time on the ball. Which is making them hurry their passes and not be successful. It could also just be down to the fact of us having the majority of the ball share too. Meaning the opposition isn’t having the time in possession compared to the league's average, due to us dominating the ball. Defensive Analysis Now it’s time to look at specific areas in more detail to see if we can spot any issues or things we need to work on. We are quite solid defensively and have bodies in the way to block shots, so the defensive structure seems to be working. Us making fewer clearances than other teams isn’t really an issue as it is part of our tactical setup. We’ve instructed the team to play out from the back. So when the ball is won back, we are likely trying to pass the ball around rather than lumping it up the pitch or into the stands. A defensive action metric is a statistic that measures the number or effectiveness of defensive actions taken by a player or team during a game. This can include tackles, interceptions, clearances, and other actions that help prevent the opposing team from scoring or advancing the ball. While we have made less than the average for the league on defensive actions, we are doing them in the areas you’d expect. 38% in and around our own box. Playing out from the back could be another factor as to why we are below the league's average as it we don’t do clearances often or it could be down to something else. I’m going to make a note of this and add it to our list alongside Not many final third passes attempted Low shot quality Defensive actions I don’t think it’s a major concern but I want to check just to be sure a little later on. The article is becoming really long here, so I’ve no real choice but to split it up. If I don’t there are going to be other 5k+ words and that is likely too long to retain your attention. In the second part of the article, we use the data discussed above to work out if our tactics are working and what we need to improve on. While also taking a deep dive into actual matches and seeing how the data lines up with what you see happening on the pitch. We tie it all together. For example, do you want to know if your press is working and use the data to confirm it is while watching a game? Or want to know how I use the data to decide team instruction changes? We have it covered and so much more. Hope you’ve enjoyed the first part. Edited December 31, 2022 by Cleon 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 Genuinely thought more people would have been interested in this thread due to the tactics and analysis but think I maybe wrong. Can a mod close it please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prolix Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 Not sure I see the value in preventing the possibility of more discussion if you're disappointed with the lack of engagement. Keep in mind that the holidays likely decrease the amount of time people are spending on forums, etc. For what it's worth, I was interested to see how you go from the list of issues highlighted in the data to in-game analysis. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Cleon said: Genuinely thought more people would have been interested in this thread due to the tactics and analysis but think I maybe wrong. Can a mod close it please. I'm following you on your website, so I see your articles there first. I'm actually in the process of beginning a new save where I incorporate many lessons learned from yourself (I slightly adapted your tactic into a 5-2-1-2 but the instructions are mostly the same and I'm going attributeless and data-led, Jack Joyce's England DNA series and Daljit's Porto Academy Challenge. I'm really excited about it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialOne Miko Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 I find that extremely interesting and looking forward to it! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Late to the party but loving it so far as always Cleon. I agree that it's been tough to get time to get on here during the holidays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Prolix said: Not sure I see the value in preventing the possibility of more discussion if you're disappointed with the lack of engagement. Keep in mind that the holidays likely decrease the amount of time people are spending on forums, etc. For what it's worth, I was interested to see how you go from the list of issues highlighted in the data to in-game analysis. The thread was posted way before the holidays though and got zero engagement. Personally I don't believe it's an holiday thing, there's lots of great threads on here that seem to get zero engagements nowadays. I just don't think there's many people left on here who enjoy a discussion anymore. If there's no interactions there's zero point in me keep updating the thread and talking to myself. More effort than it's worth in the hope that someone might eventually ask something. As the thread will just fade away and no one really reads past page 1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Sorry for me I meant the school holidays. It's summer here and the kids have been off since early December. I'd like to finish reading this all before commenting on the material but safe to say it's brilliant as usual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 34 minutes ago, Cleon said: The thread was posted way before the holidays though and got zero engagement. Personally I don't believe it's an holiday thing, there's lots of great threads on here that seem to get zero engagements nowadays. I just don't think there's many people left on here who enjoy a discussion anymore. If there's no interactions there's zero point in me keep updating the thread and talking to myself. More effort than it's worth in the hope that someone might eventually ask something. As the thread will just fade away and no one really reads past page 1. I think it's just the way it is. I've got a bit shirty with a couple of posters who don't want to read, don't want to discuss - they just want an insta-fix. Maybe the diminished numbers who want a deeper dive get it from YouTubes, Twitch, Discord and websites these days, dunno. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 Part two of the analysis, I'm hoping I can have it finished by the weekend at the latest hopefully. I have lots of other stuff related to this save half finished too. As I've played 10 seasons now. So have lots to finish off in terms of tactics, analysis and scouting. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Cleon said: The thread was posted way before the holidays though and got zero engagement. Personally I don't believe it's an holiday thing, there's lots of great threads on here that seem to get zero engagements nowadays. I just don't think there's many people left on here who enjoy a discussion anymore. If there's no interactions there's zero point in me keep updating the thread and talking to myself. More effort than it's worth in the hope that someone might eventually ask something. As the thread will just fade away and no one really reads past page 1. I totally understand you mate. It is very frustrating when you spend a lot of time researching and writing something and then get minimal engagement. There are too many people these days looking for quick fixes from YouTube streamers who don't really appreciate a good written discussion. Which is the reason why I appreciate all that more the few people that I can get engaged in a thread sometimes. Edited January 2, 2023 by crusadertsar 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmplaya Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Hi @Cleon, I am really enjoying the thread and it has been very insightful seeing your approach to tactical analysis using data. I am also doing a save with the same skin and one of the things that I have found most difficult is youth development. As you have played 10 seasons and have a greater experience, did you prioritise youth development at all and if so how did you go about doing so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 2, 2023 Author Share Posted January 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Fmplaya said: Hi @Cleon, I am really enjoying the thread and it has been very insightful seeing your approach to tactical analysis using data. I am also doing a save with the same skin and one of the things that I have found most difficult is youth development. As you have played 10 seasons and have a greater experience, did you prioritise youth development at all and if so how did you go about doing so? I just approached youth development like I did on all saves. Just train the player in the roles I'm using in the tactic. Training is a bit boring on a save like this as you can't see the attributes so don't know what the player needs. But I just trained roles and used a lot of technical schedules to reinforce the possession aspect of the tactic and work on the core attributes that are needed for this style. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Aqua Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) On 02/01/2023 at 05:45, Cleon said: Genuinely thought more people would have been interested in this thread due to the tactics and analysis but think I maybe wrong. Can a mod close it please. I think it's worth updating the thread as you wish too!, maybe there isn't the discussion that once was around here on the forums (before my time), but a lot of people enjoy your writing and learn things from how you play. Think of yourself as the old veteran mentor with 20 Determination - and the rest of us like youth prospects who need to be improved!. Edited January 4, 2023 by Matty Aqua 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_skeleton Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) I am looking forward to the next part, especially how the possession regain graph is going to change for your team. I wonder if this can change at all without having better players (or growing reputation), or most of it is just down to the formation that we use? I used to use a deep formation but with heavy pressing and I also noticed that the team is mostly getting the ball back around the halfway line. This is I think one of the less discussed parts of a possession tactic, where you loose the ball usually and how does that influence you getting it back. So mostly I would look to make it so that the team looses the ball in advanced areas, in the final third preferably around the touchline, I think that is the best for loosing the ball. Losing possession in the final third is also miles better than loosing it in the middle of the park, I think loosing the ball around the halfway line makes it impossible to get it back without conceding a shot/possession. So I guess my point is that (I think) the further up the field you loose the ball most of the time, the better chance you will have at getting it back, so I am looking forward to how it will change for your team. Edited January 4, 2023 by robot_skeleton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 Quote I am looking forward to the next part, especially how the possession regain graph is going to change for your team. I wonder if this can change at all without having better players (or growing reputation), or most of it is just down to the formation that we use? I used to use a deep formation but with heavy pressing and I also noticed that the team is mostly getting the ball back around the halfway line. It's a little spoiler but in all honesty the possession regain graph has been quite similar since we switched to the possession orientated system we now use. So that's from the 5th tier of Brazil to Brasileirão - Série A and the numbers are roughly the same give or take. It's more a system and role thing more so than the player imo. Getting better players will help but it's more the system and how it plays that will determine roughly what kind of numbers we see. Quote This is I think one of the less discussed parts of a possession tactic, where you loose the ball usually and how does that influence you getting it back I've just wrote a little passage for the next article about how we were pressing after we lost the ball and I didn't like what I saw, even though it's effective. So I've discussed the why and shown examples and then a solution to what I saw. Quote So mostly I would look to make it so that the team looses the ball in advanced areas, in the final third preferably around the touchline, I think that is the best for loosing the ball. Ideally you want to win the ball back in your strongest area of the pitch before they hit the weaker ones. So in the tactic discussed throughout there, that would be before the ball goes beyond the CM's. Ideally and in a perfect game we need to make use of the two AM's pressing and forming a block with the CM's that is hard to penetrate. If we don't win the ball before they bypass the CM's then I'm open for the counter attack. Quote Losing possession in the final third is also miles better than loosing it in the middle of the park, I think loosing the ball around the halfway line makes it impossible to get it back without conceding a shot/possession. This is why I stressed that the CM's must sit and recycle possession in this system and not be adventurous and support attacking by moving higher up the pitch. If they move higher up the pitch it means a direct ball ends up in our final third with little pressure. Or that if any ball is cleared, they'd not be positioned to pick it up and keep the pressure on. Which is what usually happens. The defence will clear the ball and the CM's around the half way circle will pick it up and play in the attacking players or those who are still advanced. It allows us to continue the pressure and gives them no room to breathe. Quote So I guess my point is that (I think) the further up the field you loose the ball most of the time, the better chance you will have at getting it back, so I am looking forward to how it will change for your team. I think it's more down to player positioning like I mentioned above that determines this. It's one of the reasons why people who use a standard 4231 with 2 CM's for example, generally have issues when they have one of the CM's go forward. Because that leaves them exposed to what I mentioned above about a simple ball putting them on the back foot. And in the 4231 that would mean the other CM who didn't venture forward has the full responsibility now for defending/pressing and winning the ball back for the entire midfield. Which isn't realistic and possible. The analysis threw up something interesting in my tactic btw in part two of the article. So I have a decision to make about possible changes relating to the above too. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 13 hours ago, Matty Aqua said: I think it's worth updating the thread as you wish too!, maybe there isn't the discussion that once was around here on the forums (before my time), but a lot of people enjoy your writing and learn things from how you play. Think of yourself as the old veteran mentor with 20 Determination - and the rest of us like youth prospects who need to be improved!. Ha. I don't mind posting if I know people are reading/enjoying it. It wasn't praise I was looking for it was more validation that someone was finding it useful and understanding what I wrote. If people don't post, I don't really know if people are reading it or finding it useful. I think that's what I was wanting to know. For anyone reading it, I welcome all questions and encourage them no matter how small or how silly you might think they are. No such thing as a silly question imo, so if you have them, fire away 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
axelmuller Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Excellent as always. One stupid question: Are you seeing any hoofballs from the defenders instead of controlled, patient buildup? In the possession tactic, you have both Much Shorter Passing and Play out of Defence with Positive mentality. When I go this short, my defenders and goalkeeper often hoof it long instead of passing short. Or does it come down to decisions, composure and so on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, axelmuller said: Excellent as always. One stupid question: Are you seeing any hoofballs from the defenders instead of controlled, patient buildup? In the possession tactic, you have both Much Shorter Passing and Play out of Defence with Positive mentality. When I go this short, my defenders and goalkeeper often hoof it long instead of passing short. Or does it come down to decisions, composure and so on? My players don't hoof the ball but BPD are much riskier on FM23 now with the changes. They opften do progressive passes that look to put us on the front foot or do a defence splitting pass. I wrote this elsewhere; Examples of Aggressive Passing from the Defenders I’m classing the halfback as a defender here because he is, with the way he defends and helps us transition the ball. Here the halfback is taking his time on the ball and waiting for players to get into position. I know this because I see him dwell on the ball and the commentary confirms it. Knudsen is scanning around to see what his options are and has a lot of them, 4 in fact. Actually, 5 should he decide to the bring ball further forward himself, which he does at times. On this occasion, however, he chooses the furthest option top right. Immediately this puts us on the front foot and has opened up a potential overload down the right side of the pitch. The mezzala can take his time to turn around and assess his options too, he doesn’t have to rush. When he turns around he can either lay it off to the inverted winger for a quick one-two. Or he can play in the fullback making a surging run down the right. We are using the full width of the pitch. From here we can either directly attack with the overloads down here or retain possession should the players decide now is not the best time to attack. Either way, we have multiple choices here. While we are building a possession-based system, we also still want to attack and win games. The possession we have has to be meaningful and not possession for the sake of it. We still want to win games and take the game to the opponents. This is another example but this time, this is much riskier. I want to highlight this pass particularly as it demonstrates exactly how aggressive the ball-playing defenders can be at times. It is almost reckless. He has lots of time on the ball to bring it out of defence if he chooses and he also has three (red circles) immediate passing options. All of them present a different level of difficulty to pull off. We also have the yellow circled player, which would be the reckless option and the least likely to pull off. Of course, that’s the option he chooses here. The ball-playing defender has been reworked on Football Manager 2023 and is much more aggressive with their passing and the positions they take up on the pitch. It’s not uncommon to see them attack deep inside the opposition half these days. I wanted to highlight this move so you are aware of the changes and just how risky the role can be. If you use ball-playing defenders and want to create a possession system, keep an eye on this as at times, it might go against what you are creating. Especially if they give possession away cheaply like in my example. Edited January 4, 2023 by Cleon 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flohrinho Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 I always love reading threads like this, but I have to be honest, I never got possession tactics to work properly. I either find myself in a place where my possession isn't anything special, 54-58% over a season or at the point where I'm just not doing well, it seems like every time I get to keep the ball more than 60% of the time I'm blunting myself attacking wise and usually start doing worse. I totally get what you mean when you say "too much possession" isn't a good thing either, but I wouldn't have thought this would already happen when I go above 56% possession on average. Okay, complaint over, keep up the good work with these threads, love reading them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzek Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 @Cleon which roles did you find that changed/improved/reworked in FM23? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 4 hours ago, dzek said: @Cleon which roles did you find that changed/improved/reworked in FM23? It's mainly pivots and wingers, the positioning they take up. If you use CM's and there is no DM behind they naturally drop deeper. But if you have a DM then they push a lot higher up compared to older versions of the game. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzek Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 There arent any differences in forwards or back? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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