Which Head of Youth Development is Better?

[Weston]

I imagine everyone is tired of answering HoYD questions by now, so I apologize for this in advance.

My youth intake has been a bit disappointing yet again, and as my club stature and bank balance have both increased since I hired my current one, I thought I should look into an upgrade. This is who is in the role now:

He has an 18 average rating in the highlighted attributes, good personality, and really good attributes for training. As a bonus, he prefers a narrow formation as do I.

Here are the two options to replace him with, should I opt for that route:

Positives:
- Better personality
- Equally great coaching attributes
- Better negotiating and tactical knowledge if that helps?

Negatives:
- Slightly lower highlighted attributes
- Wide formation
- No world knowledge..?

Positives:
- Best possible highlighted attributes
- Adds knowledge of Brazil, so maybe we get some good kids from there?
- Equally good personality
- Better negotiating and tactical knowledge if that helps at all?
- Perfect JPA/JPP will help me better assess my current squad in general

Negatives:
- Considerably less good coaching attributes
- Wide formation

What do you experts think? Should I pay to upgrade? Are either of these two a substantial upgrade? If so, which should I pick?

Edited August 1, 2020 by Weston

[EnigMattic1]

What personalities do they all have? 

[ray27]

Seeing as I play a 442 wouldn't touch either of them, As I understand it players coming through your youth intake will be based around Hoyd preferred formation, My Hoyd must always have 442 as preferred formation

[Weston]

3 hours ago, EnigMattic1 said:

What personalities do they all have? 

Current Speakman is Professional, Pessotto is Model Professional, Barletta is Professional.

[Nacaw]

All of them are top tier, I don't think you'll see a discernible difference in quality of youth in takes matter who you choose. 

[zyfon5]

What formation and what style of football are you playing? To me this are the most important aspect to consider. HOYD attributes rarely affect the quality of intake. Having youth players that can at least be a bench warmer for you is going to be much more important later on. No point having a 5 star PA target man wonderkid if your team do not play that kind of football.

[Weston]

1 minute ago, zyfon5 said:

What formation and what style of football are you playing? To me this are the most important aspect to consider. HOYD attributes rarely affect the quality of intake. Having youth players that can at least be a bench warmer for you is going to be much more important later on. No point having a 5 star PA target man wonderkid if your team do not play that kind of football.

I play a 4-1-2-1-2 narrow diamond, and my current guy is the only one with a narrow preferred formation.  I'm good on homegrown players because I poach young players from abroad and train them. So while I'd love to have a homegrown lad make his way into my team I'd really just like to see better players even if they don't fit my system because I can always sell them later. But if you think that increasing the attributes with Barletta won't make a difference then I might as well not make the change?

[herne79]

They're all great and any club would be happy to have any of them as their HoYD.  Nor do I think any of them will give you anything more than the mere slightest of boosts to your chances of getting better newgens.

Who are you managing and what exactly are the quality of newgens you are getting when you say your intake has been disappointing yet again?  I ask for a couple of reasons:

1)  Better newgens will tend to go to higher reputation clubs.  If facilities are identical at 2 clubs, the club with the higher rep will tend to (but not guaranteed to) get the better newgens.  Further, the country in which you are managing will have an impact - countries who historically produce lots of good players will tend to continue to do so.  You could have the best facilities and youth set up in the world but if you're in the Faroes you'll still be unlikely to get world beaters coming through.  So who are you managing and how's your rep?

2)  Define disappointing?  What star ratings for potential are you seeing?  2.5 to 3 star potential kids may have the potential to be of roughly equal quality to your current first team players.

3)  What would not be disappointing for you?  What are your expectations here?  1 or 2 world class newgens every year?  Every other year?  Achieve that and you'll have the best youth set up ever in the history of football (and not very realistic either).  Perhaps you just want a player or two each year who might be capable of breaking into the first team squad (see star ratings above)? 

One final thought: I see your team is Zebre Juventus - how many young players from your youth academy have broken into your first team over the last 10/15 years or are currently in your first team squad?  Compare that to your newgens and expectations.

[zyfon5]

14 minutes ago, Weston said:

I play a 4-1-2-1-2 narrow diamond, and my current guy is the only one with a narrow preferred formation.  I'm good on homegrown players because I poach young players from abroad and train them. So while I'd love to have a homegrown lad make his way into my team I'd really just like to see better players even if they don't fit my system because I can always sell them later. But if you think that increasing the attributes with Barletta won't make a difference then I might as well not make the change?

If you do not mind not having players that fit your system then go for better personality and judging player attributes. HOYD can be quite handy for coach reports of your players in your squad since they usually have very high judging player attributes.

[Weston]

25 minutes ago, herne79 said:

They're all great and any club would be happy to have any of them as their HoYD.  Nor do I think any of them will give you anything more than the mere slightest of boosts to your chances of getting better newgens.

Who are you managing and what exactly are the quality of newgens you are getting when you say your intake has been disappointing yet again?  I ask for a couple of reasons:

1)  Better newgens will tend to go to higher reputation clubs.  If facilities are identical at 2 clubs, the club with the higher rep will tend to (but not guaranteed to) get the better newgens.  Further, the country in which you are managing will have an impact - countries who historically produce lots of good players will tend to continue to do so.  You could have the best facilities and youth set up in the world but if you're in the Faroes you'll still be unlikely to get world beaters coming through.  So who are you managing and how's your rep?

2)  Define disappointing?  What star ratings for potential are you seeing?  2.5 to 3 star potential kids may have the potential to be of roughly equal quality to your current first team players.

3)  What would not be disappointing for you?  What are your expectations here?  1 or 2 world class newgens every year?  Every other year?  Achieve that and you'll have the best youth set up ever in the history of football (and not very realistic either).  Perhaps you just want a player or two each year who might be capable of breaking into the first team squad (see star ratings above)? 

One final thought: I see your team is Zebre Juventus - how many young players from your youth academy have broken into your first team over the last 10/15 years or are currently in your first team squad?  Compare that to your newgens and expectations.

All fair points. I do think most people have unrealistic expectations for what the youth intake should provide, however I often have my own staff telling me not to expect too much from this year's class, or at least that is the case this season.

I am Bari in Italy, consistently 2nd best behind Guardiola's free-spending Juve, with a 4* reputation. We have state of the art youth facilities and exceptional academy coaching and recruitment.

The star ratings on my youth intake players seem good, but the actual players themselves don't, really. This is a solid PA, for example, but the attributes are really poor. I think he was billed as the best in his class, if I recall.

I've never had a player from my youth intake even make the bench, ever, but I do believe that is in large part because our quality as a club has grown far quicker than our youth quality possibly could.

That being said, I did have an okay-looking winger I somehow managed to get Inter to pay 15mil for, which was nice, even though he definitely wasn't worth it, and I wasn't sure why I was getting wingers when neither me nor my HoYD prefer wide formations. Below is his scout report from a 20/20 scout:

I freely admit a lot of the motivation behind this is I've reached the point where there's not much left I can realistically improve, and I'm frustrated at how I've plateaued as 2nd best, so I'm starting to focus on some very small details.

As for Juve, our youth system is generally seen as underwhelming. Marchisio and Giovinco are the best we've had in years, while the other big Italian clubs have starters from their academy. Then again, that is likely in part because we're a stronger team at present, and in general the peninsula is in a bit of a slump overall, it seems.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Weston

[Weston]

6 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

If you do not mind not having players that fit your system then go for better personality and judging player attributes. HOYD can be quite handy for coach reports of your players in your squad since they usually have very high judging player attributes.

That's another reason why I'm contemplating Barletta - I'd love to have a 20/20 judge of talent to give me reports on my first team players too.

[enigmatic]

The missing bit is the media handling, which can often tell you more about the personality attributes than the personality.

Based on what you've posted, I'd mildly prefer Barletta for the perfect CA shaping attributes, perfect Determination combined with Professionalism of 18 or 19 is arguably better than Professionalism 20 Determination 17, and possibly some Brazilians in the intake.

But that'd change if he had an Outspoken temperament, or if one of the others has Evasive, Unflappable in his personality description [excellent at handling Pressure, good Temperament and not high Controversy]

 

IIRC formation doesn't actually make a difference, and assume you're playing at a level where HOYD isn't your main youth coach.

[Weston]

5 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

The missing bit is the media handling, which can often tell you more about the personality attributes than the personality.

Based on what you've posted, I'd mildly prefer Barletta for the perfect CA shaping attributes, perfect Determination combined with Professionalism of 18 or 19 is arguably better than Professionalism 20 Determination 17, and possibly some Brazilians in the intake.

But that'd change if he had an Outspoken temperament, or if one of the others has Evasive, Unflappable in his personality description [excellent at handling Pressure, good Temperament and not high Controversy]

 

IIRC formation doesn't actually make a difference, and assume you're playing at a level where HOYD isn't your main youth coach.

Barletta's media handling is reserved vs Speakman's which is evasive, reserved. So you would think Speakman has the better of those two?

I'm unsure about how formation affects things based on the fact that Speakman has gotten me a few (but arguably fewer than average, which is good) wingers even though he, like myself, prefers narrow formations. So does that mean the effect is not great, or that Barletta would get me even more wingers I can't use?

I also was wondering if Barletta might get me some Brazilians (he is an Italian national as well, so he would fit in well regardless), but Speakman has never gotten me a single Englishman (just a few Africans, which is interesting). Does this mean the other nationality does not matter, or that the English players are more pulled to English clubs than mine, whereas perhaps some Brazilians could be convinced to join?

[Weston]

Not sure it makes a difference, but it's interesting that Speakman "holds me in the highest regard as manager" and lists me as one of his only two favored personnel after our 4 years together. Contrast this with my Assistant Manager who has been with me since the lower leagues yet after 7 years together he "holds no real opinion" of me, which seems harsh! 

(I'm considering the same thing there too - do I replace my AssMan who is a "Model Professional" with another guy who has better attributes across the board but is only "Driven"? Not sure...)

[enigmatic]

11 minutes ago, Weston said:

Barletta's media handling is reserved vs Speakman's which is evasive, reserved. So you would think Speakman has the better of those two?

I'm unsure about how formation affects things based on the fact that Speakman has gotten me a few (but arguably fewer than average, which is good) wingers even though he, like myself, prefers narrow formations. So does that mean the effect is not great, or that Barletta would get me even more wingers I can't use?

I also was wondering if Barletta might get me some Brazilians (he is an Italian national as well, so he would fit in well regardless), but Speakman has never gotten me a single Englishman (just a few Africans, which is interesting). Does this mean the other nationality does not matter, or that the English players are more pulled to English clubs than mine, whereas perhaps some Brazilians could be convinced to join?

Speakman will be better at Pressure. Although it might only be one point in it, and your other youth staff all have a small effect on intake personality too.

I think HOYD formation affecting things got confirmed as a myth by SI [think it's actually mainly a mixture of fixed club and country defaults plus randomness, which is annoying when you're trying to build a different philosophy]. Higher Judging CA/PA and Working With Youngsters occasionally boosts an intake player.  

I think it's set up so Brazilians are a lot more likely to appear overseas than English players in general, but don't forget staff impact on nationalities is only occasional. Italy has more Africans in the population than Englishmen

 

tbh there's so little in it I probably wouldn't bother replacing Speakman,

[herne79]

19 minutes ago, Weston said:

The star ratings on my youth intake players seem good, but the actual players themselves don't, really. This is a solid PA, for example, but the attributes are really poor. I think he was billed as the best in his class, if I recall.

ok now we're getting somewhere .  If the star ratings for intake players seem good then your youth set up (and HoYD) are functioning well.  If the players don't then develop into first team players, that has little to do with the quality of your set up and HoYD, and more to do with their development (or rather their lack of).

That's a really good example you posted here.  He has the potential to be in your first team so how have you been developing him?  His personality is "Balanced" which tells me that his Determination, Ambition and Professionalism are all less than ideal.  The better those 3 attributes are the more likely a player is to develop well.  I'd suggest his Mentoring could have been better (if he even had any).

(BTW, this kid could actually have a really high potential because your Bari side are a top two team, so your first team squad are probably pretty good - and this kid is being compared quite favourably against them).

Also understand that while training and game time at a relevant level are always important for development, under the age of 18 training takes precedence.  So make sure you have decent individual training plans set up for your youth prospects as soon as you sign them.

TL;DR - From what you've said here this thread isn't really about your youth intake, it's about player development.  So mentor your players to develop their personalities and give your players effective training plans .

 

[HUNT3R]

Weston, a HoYD won't improve your entire youth intake. You're splitting hairs between 3 good options. They'll influence some players with their coaching style. They'll influence some players with their own personality. They'll influence some players with their preferred formation. ETC. It's not going to affect everyone.

Also, as far as ability goes, a HoYD will affect the rare 'freak' newgen that comes through. The overall quality still is reliant on the other factors involved in a youth intake.

---

Don't make the mistake of judging players immediately when they enter your club's youth team. They are still kids and they haven't kicked a ball in professional football... yet. You may well be wrong. Your staff may well be wrong. When I did quick experiments with top clubs, I'd often find some of the top players, in terms of actual PA, somewhere in the middle of PPA (the stars) so it's obviously not always accurate. It shouldn't be. These are still very raw talents at a very young age. Staff (IRL and FM) tend to judge potential based on current ability for their age (how else can you?) so don't make rash decisions or draw quick conclusions too easily.

Give these players some time.

[Weston]

12 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Speakman will be better at Pressure. Although it might only be one point in it, and your other youth staff all have a small effect on intake personality too.

I think HOYD formation affecting things got confirmed as a myth by SI [think it's actually mainly a mixture of fixed club and country defaults plus randomness, which is annoying when you're trying to build a different philosophy]. Higher Judging CA/PA and Working With Youngsters occasionally boosts an intake player.  

I think it's set up so Brazilians are a lot more likely to appear overseas than English players in general, but don't forget staff impact on nationalities is only occasional. Italy has more Africans in the population than Englishmen

 

tbh there's so little in it I probably wouldn't bother replacing Speakman,

Interesting, I appreciate the insight. If they're more or less the same then I may replace him only to get the 20/20 judging ability for the club as a whole, though that again brings me to the AssMan potential switch:

The guy with better attributes who I might replace him with has 19/19 judging ability, and is driven and level-headed. I will want one of the two.

My current guy is outspoken and evasive at the same time? He also plays mind games, despite being a model professional. I assume media handling is less of a big deal in this role anyway?

[Weston]

22 minutes ago, herne79 said:

ok now we're getting somewhere .  If the star ratings for intake players seem good then your youth set up (and HoYD) are functioning well.  If the players don't then develop into first team players, that has little to do with the quality of your set up and HoYD, and more to do with their development (or rather their lack of).

That's a really good example you posted here.  He has the potential to be in your first team so how have you been developing him?  His personality is "Balanced" which tells me that his Determination, Ambition and Professionalism are all less than ideal.  The better those 3 attributes are the more likely a player is to develop well.  I'd suggest his Mentoring could have been better (if he even had any).

(BTW, this kid could actually have a really high potential because your Bari side are a top two team, so your first team squad are probably pretty good - and this kid is being compared quite favourably against them).

Also understand that while training and game time at a relevant level are always important for development, under the age of 18 training takes precedence.  So make sure you have decent individual training plans set up for your youth prospects as soon as you sign them.

TL;DR - From what you've said here this thread isn't really about your youth intake, it's about player development.  So mentor your players to develop their personalities and give your players effective training plans .

 

Of course, because of the never-ending star rating bug, I've just noticed that his stars are completely different if you actually click the reports screen:

The problem is, now that you can't have first team players mentor youth players anymore for some reason, I can only have him be mentored by his own teammates. Sardo is a team leader, so no one else will influence him, he'll only make them more "balanced." I don't see what I could be doing better?

When I have players with decent attributes and a few clear weakness areas I will focus on them and add individual training focuses. But when someone like this is pretty weak across the board I don't see the use in that when they should just keep on their overall training, no?

Each year I find myself only signing a very small amount of the youth intake - I'll take a few of the higher rated ones, a few of the ones with better attributes, and maybe one or two with a great personality even if they're terrible players, just to keep up the team personality. But even then, I think I signed 6 last year, and that was the most I'd done in years.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Weston

[Weston]

15 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Weston, a HoYD won't improve your entire youth intake. You're splitting hairs between 3 good options. They'll influence some players with their coaching style. They'll influence some players with their own personality. They'll influence some players with their preferred formation. ETC. It's not going to affect everyone.

Also, as far as ability goes, a HoYD will affect the rare 'freak' newgen that comes through. The overall quality still is reliant on the other factors involved in a youth intake.

---

Don't make the mistake of judging players immediately when they enter your club's youth team. They are still kids and they haven't kicked a ball in professional football... yet. You may well be wrong. Your staff may well be wrong. When I did quick experiments with top clubs, I'd often find some of the top players, in terms of actual PA, somewhere in the middle of PPA (the stars) so it's obviously not always accurate. It shouldn't be. These are still very raw talents at a very young age. Staff (IRL and FM) tend to judge potential based on current ability for their age (how else can you?) so don't make rash decisions or draw quick conclusions too easily.

Give these players some time.

Right, I get that. I know I'm splitting hairs, but I've reached that point where there's not much less I can meaningfully improve so I am indeed obsessing over the small stuff for lack of other things to do.

As for the bottom half of your comment, what do you think of what I wrote in the comment directly above this one?

[Weston]

I found the screenshot for this season. Like I said, I agree many people have unrealistic expectations, but this is them telling me it'll be bad:

One of the only two good points is that I'm getting a lot of wide players, even though both Speakman and I prefer narrow formations 

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, Weston said:

even though both Speakman and I prefer narrow formations 

 

23 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

They'll influence some players with their preferred formation. ETC. It's not going to affect everyone.

They'll have some preference for certain positions, but if there are others coming through, why not? Would you instead prefer a youth intake where you get 2 players a year? With these being young players, it's often quite easy to retrain them.

 

[HUNT3R]

6 minutes ago, Weston said:

I found the screenshot for this season. Like I said, I agree many people have unrealistic expectations, but this is them telling me it'll be bad:

That doesn't look good, but don't judge too quickly. Looking at my last couple of intakes (sorry, I'm not looking at players still at my club. I don't want to ruin it for my save) I have had a 4* PPA player with 97 PA. I've had a 4.5* PPA player with only 117 PA. These players were in the top 3 players of the youth intake. Don't be too quick to judge.

 

I assume that everything else, youth intake-wise, is as good as it can be?

[Weston]

8 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

That doesn't look good, but don't judge too quickly. Looking at my last couple of intakes (sorry, I'm not looking at players still at my club. I don't want to ruin it for my save) I have had a 4* PPA player with 97 PA. I've had a 4.5* PPA player with only 117 PA. These players were in the top 3 players of the youth intake. Don't be too quick to judge.

 

I assume that everything else, youth intake-wise, is as good as it can be?

We have state of the art youth facilities and exceptional academy coaching and recruitment. And yes, I'm not trying to judge prematurely, just providing the info I do have for context.

[herne79]

25 minutes ago, Weston said:

The problem is, now that you can't have first team players mentor youth players anymore for some reason, I can only have him be mentored by his own teammates.

There is no reason why you can't put your brightest prospects into the first team squad, mentor them there and make them available for your youth team matches (or even give them some first team match experience) - especially if you've had them developing for a year or two in your youth team .

[Weston]

1 minute ago, herne79 said:

There is no reason why you can't put your brightest prospects into the first team squad, mentor them there and make them available for your youth team matches (or even give them some first team match experience) - especially if you've had them developing for a year or two in your youth team .

This makes sense, but I was told that having players training with the first team out of sync with the matches they play with the youth team actually hurts their development. Is that true?

In any case - I loan out all of my most promising youth players (and they're the ones I signed myself as teens). So I actually have so few youth players at the club I need to keep just enough to field a full team and some subs for the U20. For the U18 I don't even have a full squad because I promote them to U20 to fill the holes the young foreigners leave on loan...

[herne79]

19 minutes ago, Weston said:

This makes sense, but I was told that having players training with the first team out of sync with the matches they play with the youth team actually hurts their development. Is that true?

It doesn't "hurt" their development as such.  Ideally speaking training and matches will sync, but it'll hurt your player development more if you're not developing and mentoring them effectively.  As I said above, think about doing that for your best prospects - not all of them.

21 minutes ago, Weston said:

In any case - I loan out all of my most promising youth players (and they're the ones I signed myself as teens). So I actually have so few youth players at the club I need to keep just enough to field a full team and some subs for the U20. For the U18 I don't even have a full squad because I promote them to U20 to fill the holes the young foreigners leave on loan...

The more you write the more I'm convinced this thread is not about youth intake issues but about development issues.  If you loan out players you lose all control over their development.  That's not to say they won't develop but you are finding your players are not developing so you should consider the quality of the clubs you are loaning to, the game time your players will get and why you can't continue their development at your own club.

[Weston]

11 minutes ago, herne79 said:

It doesn't "hurt" their development as such.  Ideally speaking training and matches will sync, but it'll hurt your player development more if you're not developing and mentoring them effectively.  As I said above, think about doing that for your best prospects - not all of them.

The more you write the more I'm convinced this thread is not about youth intake issues but about development issues.  If you loan out players you lose all control over their development.  That's not to say they won't develop but you are finding your players are not developing so you should consider the quality of the clubs you are loaning to, the game time your players will get and why you can't continue their development at your own club.

No, the players I'm loaning out seem to be developing just fine, but the players I'm loaning out are almost always players I signed based on their strong potential. They're 18+ and, I'm told, need playing time over training at that stage, no? The players I find disappointing are the youth intake ones who I either never sign, or I sign and they don't really develop from 16-18 while playing in the U20.

When I do loan players I almost always only loan to clubs with solid training facilities that will play them regularly.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Weston

[Nacaw]

1 hour ago, Weston said:

I found the screenshot for this season. Like I said, I agree many people have unrealistic expectations, but this is them telling me it'll be bad:

One of the only two good points is that I'm getting a lot of wide players, even though both Speakman and I prefer narrow formations 

Once you are a top club with top players, 90% of intakes will look like this. The final comment seems to be based on the average, or top 5 average of PA, so you could have a 200 PA player and 4x 100 PA and it would still say that. You could also have a "good crop" and it's 5 players with 130-140 PA.. Either way, no mater how much you optimize, youth intake is just an unlikely-to-win dice roll and should be treated as such

[Haiku]

Yep, it's truly a Dice. On my very first youth intake with Bordeaux 3 players came with huge potential. I don't know what their PA value is, but the three become France nationals, not to mention two of them become the best GK and CM in the game.  I never had such a good youth intake anymore. Although my club progressed greatly over the next few years, I got the best intake at the start of the game when my staff and recruitment were pretty average. So IMO, luck is the most important factor when it comes to regens.

[Weston]

Well here it is - pretty bad! First time I've ever seen them flat out say there is not one single payer good enough to stand out!

Here is the best one. His potential rating seems generous.

Maybe next year!

[Weston]

Pretty abysmal personalities, too. The one below the fold is Driven, but otherwise the majority are poor...

Are so many "unambitious" because I myself am rated as such for some reason? Why am I rated that? I've taken this team from the lower leagues to a top level trophy! And I have 15 determination. Seems harsh...

Edited August 3, 2020 by Weston

[s0ni42]

You’re unambitious because you have probably turned down a lot of high profile interviews and jobs on your way to top. Burden of staying at one club. I manually adjust that every so often.

 

i don’t think it impacts your intake though

[nick1408]

On 02/08/2020 at 03:15, Weston said:

Of course, because of the never-ending star rating bug, I've just noticed that his stars are completely different if you actually click the reports screen:

This isn't a bug. Your assistant gave his opinion on the profile page. Speakmann gave his opinion on this page.

 

Here are seven different opinions of my different staff. Some have the same ratings for Ability and Potential but still give different opinions. At the end of the day it's just that - an opinion.

 

 

[Weston]

2 hours ago, s0ni42 said:

You’re unambitious because you have probably turned down a lot of high profile interviews and jobs on your way to top. Burden of staying at one club. I manually adjust that every so often.

 

i don’t think it impacts your intake though

I feel like it's said "unambitious" even before I turned down some big moves, and in the past I tested this with the editor and changing my "adaptability" and "determination" to 20s changed it, even though at 15s each they shouldn't be a problem.

And it seems suspicious that I have so many in the intake with this personality. If it's not coming from me then where is it coming from?

@HUNT3R @enigmatic @herne79 Anyone have any insight into this?

[Weston]

2 hours ago, nick1408 said:

This isn't a bug. Your assistant gave his opinion on the profile page. Speakmann gave his opinion on this page.

I thought I had Speakman set as the one who gives the ratings all the time - seems very confusing to have them change like that in different places without any indication.

[herne79]

34 minutes ago, Weston said:

Anyone have any insight into this?

Just because your HoYD may have decent ambition (which btw we don't know because it's a hidden attribute - there is nothing above which indicates he does) doesn't mean your newgens are guaranteed to have high Ambition.  The HoYD's attributes may have an effect, that's all.

And unless something radical has changed, and we have that change confirmed by SI, it's pure speculation that our own managers have any impact on newgens.  That's not something I've ever heard of or seen confirmed by SI.

[Weston]

42 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Just because your HoYD may have decent ambition (which btw we don't know because it's a hidden attribute - there is nothing above which indicates he does) doesn't mean your newgens are guaranteed to have high Ambition.  The HoYD's attributes may have an effect, that's all.

And unless something radical has changed, and we have that change confirmed by SI, it's pure speculation that our own managers have any impact on newgens.  That's not something I've ever heard of or seen confirmed by SI.

Interesting. So what might explain the vast majority of my newgens having such dreadful personalities, specifically the one I also have? Some of them list me as a favored person.

And why do I have "unambitious" regardless?

[herne79]

6 minutes ago, Weston said:

So what might explain the vast majority of my newgens having such dreadful personalities

Bad luck.  Relatively low club reputation.  HoYD not guaranteed to influence your newgens and even if he does influence them it still doesn't mean they'll get all his attributes - just influenced.  Not having the best possible "Youth Recruitment" and/or other junior facilities.  Your own expectations.  Something else.  Some/all of the above.  Even if you have the best possible everything it still doesn't guarantee you a regular supply of good (or better) newgens.

12 minutes ago, Weston said:

Some of them list me as a favored person.

Because they are brown nosing the club manager.

13 minutes ago, Weston said:

And why do I have "unambitious" regardless?

That's down the vagaries of how the game calculates your manager's progress.  My GK attribute keeps increasing but I've never set myself as a GK coach.  Go figure.

[Weston]

Here is what came in this next season. That's it - I'm replacing Speakman with Barletta. Doesn't matter if it makes no difference, I can't justify renewing his contract when it expires at the end of the season if yet again the only positive is about the one position we don't use.

[Weston]

Yikes. I really don't understand what is causing the "unambitious" personality trait to come through in such consistently high numbers if it isn't my own personality.

In any case this just seems really bad, no way around it.

[herne79]

46 minutes ago, Weston said:

if it isn't my own personality.

Stop talking about your personality, it's a red herring and has no impact.

Like I said above, you have no idea what your HoYD has for "Ambition".  There is no indication of that on his profile.  His "Professional" personality just means he has very high Professionalism.  Actually scrap that - because his personality is Professional that might be an indicator that he does have relatively low (or at least not very high) Ambition.  If his Ambition were higher I'd expect his personality to be along the lines of "Resolute" or similar.

You should also check your other Youth staff's personalities as they can also impact newgens.  Their impact isn't as great as your HoYD's, but there can still be an impact there.

Also understand that these staff members (and the HoYD) only influence newgens.  This means newgens may only get a partial transfer of personality traits.  So for example, lets pretend your HoYD has 15 Professionalism and 10 Ambition.  In a partial transfer to newgens, the newgens may only get 10 Professionalism and 5 Ambition passed to them, thus they will get a "bad" personality.  Now add in influences from other staff members with equally low (or worse) Ambition and suddenly you get a lot of Unambitious newgens.

(Ignore the numbers used, it's just to demonstrate the point).

Edit - just did a quick and dirty test using the in game editor on one of my players.  20 Det + 20 Prof + pretty much any level of Ambition between 1 and 14 = Professional personality (your HoYD's personality).

On the flip side, I gave the same player low Ambition but high levels (15) of Prof and Det - his personality was "Unambitious".

Other personality traits will have an impact so this is by no means definitive but hopefully you get the picture.

[Weston]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

Stop talking about your personality, it's a red herring and has no impact.

Like I said above, you have no idea what your HoYD has for "Ambition".  There is no indication of that on his profile.  His "Professional" personality just means he has very high Professionalism.  Actually scrap that - because his personality is Professional that might be an indicator that he does have relatively low (or at least not very high) Ambition.  If his Ambition were higher I'd expect his personality to be along the lines of "Resolute" or similar.

You should also check your other Youth staff's personalities as they can also impact newgens.  Their impact isn't as great as your HoYD's, but there can still be an impact there.

Also understand that these staff members (and the HoYD) only influence newgens.  This means newgens may only get a partial transfer of personality traits.  So for example, lets pretend your HoYD has 15 Professionalism and 10 Ambition.  In a partial transfer to newgens, the newgens may only get 10 Professionalism and 5 Ambition passed to them, thus they will get a "bad" personality.  Now add in influences from other staff members with equally low (or worse) Ambition and suddenly you get a lot of Unambitious newgens.

(Ignore the numbers used, it's just to demonstrate the point).

Edit - just did a quick and dirty test using the in game editor on one of my players.  20 Det + 20 Prof + pretty much any level of Ambition between 1 and 14 = Professional personality (your HoYD's personality).

On the flip side, I gave the same player low Ambition but high levels (15) of Prof and Det - his personality was "Unambitious".

Other personality traits will have an impact so this is by no means definitive but hopefully you get the picture.

Here are my youth staff's personalities, for what it's worth:

Since none of the intake players are worth keeping I just signed the ones with high determination / decent personalities to keep up the overall youth squad personality, I guess.