[FM20] Irchester Utd. Tier 10. England. Home. Youth Only.

[-Jef-]

Firstly I do think that you dropped the ball with Fabian. Strictly goalkeeping skills he is miles better than Ward and while his mentals, primarily positioning, are worse I do think he would do a much better job just because he has the keepers instincts to get those saves. And positioning is something that is fairly easily bumped to at least 12-13 in his case with individual training focus. I had a similar keeper for Bolton a few saves back and with consistent playing time in Championship/Premier League combined with ind. training focus managed to get his progress to this:

I know it is not indicative since different players, coaches etc but do feel like Fabina could've improved more in areas he needs. But notice the red marked attributes - the only benefit Ward has over Fabian, and those are improved with experience. Yes, I put him into fire at 17 years old with those starting attributes in the Championship.

And re:extension - I also like to use contract extension after games played in last season 10. I do not use optional extensions on 17yr olds or 18 yr old. I use the extension after games played because if he plays 10 games in a league for me when he is 21, if I had not extended his contract, then he will immediately have his contract extended. This is especially useful if I promote a player I did not have in mind and he suddenly burst into the scene and me being a forgetful dummy not checking his contract makes it easy to retain him. Helps with avoiding Josh Maja situation at Sunderland.

[Jimbokav1971]

Clauses. Jul 2047. 

We finally have so many players with clauses that I have to scroll to see them all. 

5 players have clauses will deals on them so let's have a look at them. 

(33e) Lee Ward (NIR) (Bal) is the unhappy GK who has caused much recent discussion in the thread. The 50% isn't worth much at all because he is now playing in League 2, but I must have missed arranging a friendly against them, (possibly because he went in the Jan window). I will arrange that now. 

[Edit] I have already arranged a friendly, but we have haven't played it yet and the clause stays there until the game is played. 

(36e) Allinson. (F.Pro) * made 37 appearances last season so it seems highly unlikely that he won't make 13 appearances this season so no reason to sell that clause. 

(39c) Mendoza (COL) (Bal) * is the Colombian GK who is at Barnsley in the Championship. He played 9 league games last season and 7 the season before so he is starting to make an impact. They really like him and I think he will eventually become their #1 so I'm not going to sell any clauses. 

(42a) Kelly (NIR)(F.Amb)6'4" * is at Fulham who have just been relegated to the Championship. That should give him more opportunity to play than if they were still in the Premier League. I've already arranged, (but not played yet), a friendly, and I'm not impressed at all by the £1.91M offer for his 50% when you consider that they paid £6M for him. Maybe that means we got a good deal, but perhaps it the price reduction in them being relegated from the Premier League to the Championship. We will have to see what happens if they go back up. Either way, I'm not selling that for that amount. 

(45a) Grainger (Amb) * is the left back who went to Sheff Utd who have also been relegated from the Premier League. Again, possibly linked to the relegation, his 50% is only valued at £2.19M when they paid £6M for him. That's not a good deal. 

So there are so decent clauses in there and some below-par offers, but I'm not going to take any of them up at the moment. 

Balance. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Poached. Jul 2047. 

When I did this little feature in my Ton Pentre save I used to check for each player every season to see if they had come through. Now I just wait until I see their name at the bottom of the clauses page. 

I updated you on (HG47) Brendan Gillies a couple of months ago, but I forgot to update you on (HG47) Luke Bird. I think I got carried away by how good he was and the fact that he wasn't on my list at all at that stage, and I completely forgot about (HG47) Luke Bird.

I've only just added him to the shortlist so haven't scouted him yet, but I think that anything up near 100 PA is reasonable. Right? 

Here is something that I have raised before and I know @rosquehas responded on this subject before, but it's definitely not working like that so maybe someone could suggest how it's meant to work because I can't make head nor tale of it. 

Without getting too bogged down on what our Youth Rating was on a particular date, 1 thing we can all agree on is that it started off low and has increased since then on an upward trend with no little drops or blips along the way. It has either been better than or equal to the level of the previous year at all times. Agreed., Right. 

The 1st player poached player we had come through who was poached was (HG44) Aldo Kaja. (What an excellent name for an Englishman with no second Nationality by the way). I think his clause was worth £5k per 10 appearances, but he never made it at Notts Co and was released so I can't check, but I know I have it recorded somewhere in this thread so let's go and dig it out and double check to make sure. 

So this is really interesting. His clauses weren't worth £5k at all, but were actually worth £26k each. I'm going to avoid speculating as to why right now, and instead list what each player's clause was worth and THEN try and work it out. 

(HG45) came through the intake the season after (HG44), (obviously), so whatever else impacts on this, it's NOT our Youth Level. 

(HG45) came through the same intake as the other (HG45) and the clauses are for different values. They also come through at the same level, (League 2), but the 1st (HG45) was initially missed by me and I only found out about him when I saw he had clauses against his name. The 2nd HG45 on the other hand was identified via the original poached message. While both Lincoln City and Bradford City are listed as League 2 clubs, I wonder if Lincoln City played at League 1 in 2042/43 and were then relegated to League to by 2044/45?

So Lincoln City were playing at a higher level when the poaching was done, (as expected), so perhaps the compensation is based on the level of the poaching club, (at the time of poaching), but let's see if we still think that after I have listed the others?

That still fits into my new thinking, but the only spanner in the works is that I don't when this player was actually poached. Again, I only found him when I saw the clauses against his name. In my head Leicester City are a Premier League side, so if they were only relegated the previous season then that doesn't really fit with my new thinking. 

It's not definitive, but actually it still fits with my thinking because if (HG47) came through in 2047, he was likely to be poached in 2044/45 and Leicester were indeed in the Championship that season. Had they been in the Premier League, then i would have expected a bigger clause, (don't know how big because I have never seen it). 

With a very small sample size, this seems to suggest that the compensation you get in game is linked not to the level of your Academy, (which is how I thought it worked), but the level at which the poaching club currently play at. 

Premier League. Unknown. 
Championship. £26,000 per 10 appearances. 
League 1. £10,000 per 10 appearances.
League 2. £5,000 per 10 appearances.

What I would point out though is that this very clearly states "First Team appearances" and NOT "League appearances". It will be interesting to track that as and when players with clauses actually start making appearances. 

With that in mind though...... what is the exact purpose of the Youth Rating if it isn't linked to this? 

[Pompeyboyz]

Just as a thought.....maybe you are on the right track but the wrong way.....

What about it is based on the poaching teams Youth Rating or something similar but not the league they are in?? 

Would Notts Countys Youth Level drop with relegation?

And as an aside, would Youth Rating factor in the U18 competition/league your team plays in?

[Malicious Penguin]

@Jimbokav1971 With your initial squads, did you focus on the youth players over the older players to save money? 

[Jimbokav1971]

21 minutes ago, Pompeyboyz said:

Just as a thought.....maybe you are on the right track but the wrong way.....

What about it is based on the poaching teams Youth Rating or something similar but not the league they are in?? 

Would Notts Countys Youth Level drop with relegation?

And as an aside, would Youth Rating factor in the U18 competition/league your team plays in?

You could be right, but I don't think we know 100% either way at the moment. Just going to have to keep an eye on it I think. I have asked @Seb Wassellto see if he can explain it, (he's good at stuff like this), and we will see what he says.

Relegation for Notts Co would not mean an auto drop in Youth level. 

The Youth rating doesn't determine which U18 competition you play in. That is triggered by which league your senior side play in. 

[Jimbokav1971]

3 minutes ago, Malicious Penguin said:

@Jimbokav1971 With your initial squads, did you focus on the youth players over the older players to save money? 

We were playing at such a low level that I don't remember it being a difference. I do remember that there were some original players around for a while because 2 of them at least were decent strikers I think.

Parkinson (ATG) was with us until 2024. 

I've just gone back and found this from Page 1.

I think all I cared about was who were the best players. You have to remember that although my Youth Recruitment and Junior Coaching went up pretty quickly, the Training and Youth Facilities at the club went up really slowly. So despite the fact that we were producing players with decent PA pretty early, developing them to their potential was far harder. I don't remember making any decision about real or newgen players. All I cared about was CA and PA. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Long term planning. Aug 2047. 

(43f) Fabian (JAM) (Pro) * is 1st choice now and (47a) Best (F.Det) * is the long term GK. 

We not only don't have a good 1st choice left back, but we also don't have one to develop. 

(45g) Lloyd (F.Det) *, (43a) Cresswell (F.Det) *, (33b) Dean Cooke (Pro) * & (44d) Gough (LIB)(F.Amb)6'1" * are our centre-backs now and (33b) Dean Cooke (Pro) * will need replacing next season. (46b) Varallo (AUS) (Unamb) * most likely to be his replacement. 

(43j) Richard Jenkins * is the 1st choice right back and I think he is also the long-term answer if we can hang onto him. 

(38b) Kuchar (CZE) (Bal) *, (40b) Gilchrist (SCO)(LHeart)*, (38a) Usman (SWE) Bal * and (35e) Neil Dunkley (L.Heart) * are the established names in the middle of the pitch but (45d) Ndlovu (ZIM) (F.Pro) * and (46a) Gérard (FRA) (F.Pro) * most likely to make an impact. 

(44b) Big Don (JAM)(Bal)6'5" * will hopefully be our 1st choice left winger for a while. 

(44a) Greg Gray (SCO) (Real) * is not only the present but also the future on the right. 

(39a) Harri (M.Pro) *, (34c) Guy Bacon (Driven) *, (41l) Mike Burns (Merc) * and (44c) Hamilton (F.Pro) * are the main strikers this season, but (34c) Guy Bacon (Driven) * is 29 now and most likely to be replaces by (43e) Mario (JAM) (L.Det) * and/or (47c) Doyle (IRL) (Bal) *. 

We are properly desperate for a left back now and we really need to try and re-sign (45a) Grainger (Amb) * if we get promoted. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Goal-scoring Keepers. Aug 2047. 

(33e) Lee Ward (NIR) (Bal) might have left the club on 87 goals, but (43f) Fabian (JAM) (Pro) * has stepped up and is immediately filling the void. He scored 3 goals in 18 appearances last season, (and "lost 2 Playoff goals when I lost the save), and has now added 3 goals in the opening 5 games of the 2047/48 season. 

[TheMadMonk]

Can I ask for a bit of advice on the teams Poaching the New Youth Intake.

The first time this happened I was offered a paltry sum plus 50% sell on clause - I rejected it out of hand. Then lo behold a few days later they took him for £2k plus 15% sell on clause - No offer, No negotiation.

Second time I held out for 1 offer  but gave up, fearing they'd take him anyway. (both times from same club Luton Town - in championship when they poached them)

Is there any point in trying to keep the Higher Division vultures picking off your promising youngsters - or so you just accept they are going to go and take the best sell on clause you can get.

[TheMadMonk]

7 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

You could be right, but I don't think we know 100% either way at the moment. Just going to have to keep an eye on it I think. I have asked @Seb Wassellto see if he can explain it, (he's good at stuff like this), and we will see what he says.

Relegation for Notts Co would not mean an auto drop in Youth level. 

The Youth rating doesn't determine which U18 competition you play in. That is triggered by which league your senior side play in. 

Does this shed any more light on it

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, TheMadMonk said:

Can I ask for a bit of advice on the teams Poaching the New Youth Intake.

The first time this happened I was offered a paltry sum plus 50% sell on clause - I rejected it out of hand. Then lo behold a few days later they took him for £2k plus 15% sell on clause - No offer, No negotiation.

Second time I held out for 1 offer  but gave up, fearing they'd take him anyway. (both times from same club Luton Town - in championship when they poached them)

Is there any point in trying to keep the Higher Division vultures picking off your promising youngsters - or so you just accept they are going to go and take the best sell on clause you can get.

It depends what type of contract you can offer. 

If you are a Pro club and can offer a Pro contract then you offer the 15/16 year old a pro pre-contract that doesn't kick in until his 17th Birthday. This stops a youth player being poached. 

If you can't yet offer a pro contract then you just have to accept it. There is nothing you can do.

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, TheMadMonk said:

Does this shed any more light on it

It does indeed, but it means that the game has it wrong. 

This bit is right in terms of the clauses. 

But this bit is being ignored by the game. 

So let's use (HG47) Luke Bird as an example. 

He was at the club for approx. 3 years. 

If we have a Level 4 Academy then we should get £12,500 x3 = £38,500.
If we have a Level 1 Academy then we should get £40,000 x 3 = £120,000.

We're not getting actual any actual compensation fees. We're just getting the future clauses. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Aug 2047. 

League 1. This is a really good start all things considered. 3 goals for my new GK, 3 wins with lots of goals scored in the wins and 2 single goal losses. Very decent start indeed

Cup games. I rotated the squad completely for this. Not interested in the slightest.

[Jimbokav1971]

Summer Transfer Window. Sep 2047.

Transfers. Yeah it might be a bit frivolous and I'm not he can play at this level anymore, but what the hell, let's stick him on the bench and see what happens. How can you not being someone like this back to the club in a save like this when you get a chance? He needs 4 more league goals for 100. Let's see if he can get them for us from the bench. 

[Edit] The real coup will be getting him signed to a staff contract at some point. That's the real goal. 

Loans.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Jimbokav1971

[Jimbokav1971]

Sep 2047. 

League 1. We win well twice at home, scoring 7 goals in the process, and then lose by a single goal away from home. That seems to be a trend. On the plus side we are in the playoffs and have 2 games in hand on most above us and 1 game in hand on the other 2 teams. 

Cup games. I don't care about this competition. I know we have got to the Final previously, (and lost), but as far as I'm concerned I only want us to win it with our U23's when we are in the Premier League. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Oct 2047. 

League 1. It's been a good month that might have been even better had we got something we deserved out of the Preston game. The Hull game we were well-beaten though. Still, we're up to 2nd and have a game in hand over 1st and 3rd place. 

Cup games. Who cares.

[Jimbokav1971]

Academy products at 30(ish). Nov 2047. 

I haven't really got any conclusions in terms of the above, and of course it doesn't include players that retire and leave the game before they turn 30. I just think it's interesting to look back and see what sort of level of player we were able to produce with a certain level of facilities. 

If we look at  (30a) James (DMA) *,  (31a) Liam Watts (FIN) *,  (33b) Dean Cooke (Pro) and  (33e) Lee Ward (NIR) (Bal) then these are players who we have produced while a Semi-Pro club playing at or below National League level, but who have the ability/potential to play a very good level of football, (Championship and above). If you had asked me before hand, I would have said that it was highly unlikely that a club at that level, even with those facilities, could produce 4 players of this ability within a period of just 4 years, (between 2030 and 2034).

[_Ben_]

So much to take from that @Jimbokav1971 - the first thing that comes into my mind is that (32a) Fredrik Jensen (NOR)* probably had a poor personality? A PA of 120 meant that he's either gone massively under the radar or just never developed at all to only reach tier 6 - compare to (28c) Ryan Chance, (28b) Said Tembo and (33b) Dean Cooke (Pro) who have all around the same PA and gone on to play at a much higher level.

(30a) James (DMA) *,  (31a) Liam Watts (FIN) * are really your 'generational' players and, for realism sake, you'd think that you've probably used up all of your 'top-player allowance' by now!

 

[Jimbokav1971]

19 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

So much to take from that @Jimbokav1971 - the first thing that comes into my mind is that (32a) Fredrik Jensen (NOR)* probably had a poor personality? A PA of 120 meant that he's either gone massively under the radar or just never developed at all to only reach tier 6 - compare to (28c) Ryan Chance, (28b) Said Tembo and (33b) Dean Cooke (Pro) who have all around the same PA and gone on to play at a much higher level.

(30a) James (DMA) *,  (31a) Liam Watts (FIN) * are really your 'generational' players and, for realism sake, you'd think that you've probably used up all of your 'top-player allowance' by now!

 

I'm not sure if I mentioned  (32a) Fredrik Jensen (NOR) * when I updated him to the sheet, but I certainly meant to. He's retired now, but I think we have produced a few decent GK's and he was stuck lower down the pecking order in terms of CA, and I think they all had good PA and the range covered within 5.0 PA must have been huge. 

Richard Saydee was our early GK and was ok. 
Simon King then came in for 1 season and was ok. 
Gustavo Miranda (COL) then came in and was very good. 
Neil Waumsley then came in and scored 14, 10 and 8 goals in consecutive seasons. 
We then had David Hunter and Aaron Fowkes before (33e) Lee Ward (NIR) (Bal) broke into the 1st team in 2035/36.
(32a) Fredrik Jensen (NOR) * came through 1 season earlier, (and was an "a" player), and the "*" means I recognised this, but (33e) Lee Ward (NIR) (Bal) must have had better CA and they would have both shown as 5.0 PA, (120 - 107). Because (33e) Lee Ward (NIR) (Bal) was better in terms of CA and they both had 5.0 PA (32a) Fredrik Jensen (NOR) * never got a chance so his development was stunted. The only reason that (33e) Lee Wad (NIR) (BAL) doesn't have a "*" after his name is because when I post the GIF's, Gyazo doesn't like an "*". 

I think the difference between 107 CA and 120 PA is big, but of course I wasn't going on that. I was just going on the PA of 5.0 

I wonder if we will find other examples of this where we effectively have the production line backed up. GK is a bit of a problem area in terms of developing multiple players, especially when back then it was hard to loan players out. (It's much better now). 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Jimbokav1971

[Jimbokav1971]

First fine of the season. Nov 2047. 

We lost. 

[Pompeyboyz]

5 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

First fine of the season. Nov 2047. 

We lost. 

Took till november till the first fine...slacking man 

[Jimbokav1971]

9 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

First fine of the season. Nov 2047. 

We lost. 

 

3 minutes ago, Pompeyboyz said:

Took till november till the first fine...slacking man 

 I think it was even later last season. 

We're certainly off the pace a bit. 

I think the "problem" is that we are just performing far better than expected and this is obviously having an impact on possession and fouls/bookings. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Nov 2047. 

League 1. I'm really pleased, (and pleasantly surprised), with our league form. I think the basis for league position over the last few years has been our attacking mentality, (and rotation policy to benefit fitness/condition), which means that we draw very few games, (cue a spate of draws now). We've won the most games in the league, but at the same time we have lost 6 games which is the same number as 8th placed MK Dons who are 8 points behind us. I went through a period in FM that I loved clean sheets and unbeaten runs, (before I got into goal-scoring keepers), and would much prefer 1 win and 2 draws, (5 points), rather than 2 wins and a loss, (6 points). I am very much all about the points now. The other thing is that in FM the morale thing means that if you are losing a lot it's hard to break the cycle, but it works the other way around too and if you are winning a lot it's also hard to break that cycle. The way we play means that a "result", (either way), is more likely. With 3 points for a win it's beneficial

Cup games. I know that I am showing serious disrespect to the FA Cup,  but our meagre playing resources need to be concentrated on the league for the time being and as you might be able to tell from the goal-scorers, we are rotating the squad significantly for these games.

I suppose I need to acknowledge that (41l) Mike Burns (Merc) * has been performing well in the Cups and as well as scoring 2 goals in the FA Cup, and 2 goals in the Leasing.com Trophy, he's also scored 2 goals in the league, (to give him a total of 6 goals in 8(4) appearances). When you consider that he is often playing in a weakened side, I have to admit, (grudgingly), that he is starting to win me around. 

[Jimbokav1971]

Youth Intake preview. Dec 2047. 

What position are we desperate for? Left back. 

What have we got? A bloomin left back! 

[Jimbokav1971]

3rd fine of the season. Dec 2047. 

7 yellows and 1 red. We drew.

[Jimbokav1971]

Facilities. Dec 2047. 

£7.8M is a lot of money to splash out on facilities, (although our bank balance is £18.8M). We're going to have to sell players and/or recoup some money by clauses because that's quite a hefty investment for a League 1 club that already has to fund the £5M Youth Academy costs each season. 

Of course there is a balance to be made between selling players to fund these improvements and keeping our best players at the club in order to secure promotion to the Championship. In any case, the upgrades don't start until the end of the season and then are due to finish in Oct of next season, so while there isn't exactly a rush to sell. there is certainly a deadline looking large on the horizon. 

[Tajerio]

41 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Facilities. Dec 2047. 

£7.8M is a lot of money to splash out on facilities, (although our bank balance is £18.8M). We're going to have to sell players and/or recoup some money by clauses because that's quite a hefty investment for a League 1 club that already has to fund the £5M Youth Academy costs each season. 

Of course there is a balance to be made between selling players to fund these improvements and keeping our best players at the club in order to secure promotion to the Championship. In any case, the upgrades don't start until the end of the season and then are due to finish in Oct of next season, so while there isn't exactly a rush to sell. there is certainly a deadline looking large on the horizon. 

If you get promoted this year (fingers crossed) and can wait to make the sales until you're in the Championship, those player values should pop with the increase in league and club rep too, which'll be helpful.

[Jimbokav1971]

Draws.  Dec 2047. 

When you actually write on the internet that you are not getting many draws and are benefiting from it, the FM Gods see and the FM Gods take appropriate action. 

League 1. We had players sent off in 4 different games this month, so taking that into account I'm probably quite happy with the results. 

Wigan 63rd min, Wycombe 19th min, Oxford 95th min and Mansfield 36th min were all games that we might have lost. 

[Jimbokav1971]

8 minutes ago, Tajerio said:

If you get promoted this year (fingers crossed) and can wait to make the sales until you're in the Championship, those player values should pop with the increase in league and club rep too, which'll be helpful.

You're spot on. 

It's a dangerous game to play though. I can't afford to get this wrong because the money vanishes pretty damn quick. 

I also don't want the board to get involved in accepting bids. 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

This save is immense. And the thread is a great read. Thanks for that. But.. do you realize you've now gone 26 pages without ever mentioning anything about the tactical stuff? It's probably not one of your priorities, still, it would be interesting to know how it has evolved over almost 30 years.

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

This save is immense. And the thread is a great read. Thanks for that. But.. do you realize you've now gone 26 pages without ever mentioning anything about the tactical stuff? It's probably not one of your priorities, still, it would be interesting to know how it has evolved over almost 30 years.

Tactics Schmactics. 

Individual instructions change for individual players depending what suits their attributes, but I keep the actual team instructions the same and don't change them.

I've taken a side from Tier 10 to the League 1 Playoff Final playing Youth Only. Why would I want to change the tactics? 

Where a player doesn't suit the tactic particularly then I might give him an individual role or individual instructions within the same role, but I don't change things. You have to remember that I'm not playing the games. I'm using an IR button. It's a really painstaking process to develop a tactic while playing in this way. I got it to work at Ton Pentre so am sticking with it here. 

 

[Jimbokav1971]

Big Bid. Jan 2048. 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

30 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Tactics Schmactics. 

Individual instructions change for individual players depending what suits their attributes, but I keep the actual team instructions the same and don't change them.

I've taken a side from Tier 10 to the League 1 Playoff Final playing Youth Only. Why would I want to change the tactics? 

Where a player doesn't suit the tactic particularly then I might give him an individual role or individual instructions within the same role, but I don't change things. You have to remember that I'm not playing the games. I'm using an IR button. It's a really painstaking process to develop a tactic while playing in this way. I got it to work at Ton Pentre so am sticking with it here. 

 

I see your point. Generally, though, the better players you have, the more elaborate tactics you can use. And by that, I don't mean giving up your card-collecting strategy, which I love reading about by the way. I mean you can get away with more adventorous roles perhaps, more risk-taking, more sophisticated attack patterns, more aggressive team instructions, etc. There is a chance that altering the tactics slightly, based on the increased quality of your players, is the difference between playoffs and automatic promotion.

[Jimbokav1971]

Just now, Enzo_Francescoli said:

I see your point. Generally, though, the better players you have, the more elaborate tactics you can use. And by that, I don't mean giving up your card-collecting strategy, which I love reading about by the way. I mean you can get away with more adventorous roles perhaps, more risk-taking, more sophisticated attack patterns, more aggressive team instructions, etc. There is a chance that altering the tactics slightly, based on the increased quality of your players, is the difference between playoffs and automatic promotion.

Give me a couple of minutes. 

Decided to give you a proper response and almost finished. 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

1 minute ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Give me a couple of minutes. 

Decided to give you a proper response and almost finished. 

No worries. I asked only because  I did have a youth only save on FM20. And I kept developing the tactic as we were going through the tiers. Especially when I felt we were stuck in a division for too long. Most of the times it helped significantly.

[Jimbokav1971]

1 hour ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

This save is immense. And the thread is a great read. Thanks for that. But.. do you realize you've now gone 26 pages without ever mentioning anything about the tactical stuff? It's probably not one of your priorities, still, it would be interesting to know how it has evolved over almost 30 years.

I've never been that into tactics so my threads really skim over it most of the time. 

That being said, if people are interested let me spend a few minutes on it. 

While this tactic looks like being able to take us to the next level I will stick with it. Whether we will find that there is a ceiling related to either the tactic or the level of player we can produce remains to be seen. 

• Hardly anyone seems to play 442 anymore so that was the attraction. Everyone seems to play that 433 wide with 1x DM and 2x IF's. 
• A lot of people who are better at tactics than I say that you shouldn't play "double" strikers of the same role/duty. They are probably right, but I like this and it works for me. 
• Just about everyone knows that IF's are over-powered so restricting myself to not playing players in that slot was something I decided upon long ago, (hence the 442). 
• Many people believe that IW's are more effective in the ML/MR slots, but it's a real life personal preference that I don't like "inverted" wide players. I have used "inverted" wingers in this save, (because I was struggling with correct-footed options), and will do so again if needed because of the nature of the save. 
• I have stuck with the DLP(s) in the MC slot all the way through the save, although the CM(s) has on occasion been a BBM(s) & MEZ(a). I meant to go back and look at it again but never got around to it. 
• I have stuck with BPD throughout the save, but occasionally I change the duties to cover up limitations.
• I have dabbled from time to time with the full backs. In Wales I used WB(s), WB(a) and would love to go back to either of them, but at the moment we just don't have suitable players. 
• SK(a) is more related to the goal-scoring GK thing than any particular tactical nous, although it obviously fits with the stupidly high line. 

Every so often I have considered changing thing up tactically and I used to love a RGA, but I've been there and done it and everyone seems to play 1 up front with 2 wide men and then 3 in a DM triangle in the middle. If I was going to change things drastically I would be tempted to play a 3 at the back or experiment with a HB, but the HB thing will have to wait at least until we start producing proper WB's.

I've had a little with a WTM but couldn't get it to work properly and it was really awkward changing the tactic for just 1 player and when the player was subbed off it meant that I was playing a player in the AML slot which I didn't want, (other than the TM experiment). I would love to play a WTM in the ML slot, but I can't. 

I'm no tactical expert I'm afraid. If I want to go deep like this into a save, something has to give and tactics is just 1 part of many in the game that has to be sacrificed. 

I train all full backs to learn get forward wherever possible and dive into tackles, (which plays havoc with players who aren't that quick). 

I train all centre-backs to dive into tackles. 

I train all DLP's midfielders to switch ball to other flank, tries long range passes, dictate tempo (where possible) and obviously dives into tackles.

I train all CM's to get forward wherever possible, switch ball to other flank and obviously dive into tackles. 

I train all wide players to run down their flank, run with the ball more often and obviously dive into tackles. If a player is slow or poor at crossing then that might mean I cut inside or cross early and of course if I have been forced to play an inverted player then the PPM's will reflect that, I may not like it, but needs must in a save like this. 

I train all strikers with different PPM's depending on their attributes. I'm particularly fond of knocks ball past opponent and likes to round keeper for quicker players and had a long dalliance with tries first time shots for slower more technical players that I haven;t completely given up on, but which left me very frustrated. I'm determined to see some reward for likes to lob keeper too. The strikers are also asked to dive into tackles where possible, but where as I like the results of this PPM elsewhere on the pitch, it really is just an accident waiting to happen for an AF. 

That's about as much detail as I've got I'm afraid. 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

Thanks for taking the time. I can certainly see why you're terrorizing the English leagues now..  It will be quite a  dilemma if/when the second coming of Zinedine Zidane pops up in the intake (hopefully in the next one )

[Jimbokav1971]

29 minutes ago, Enzo_Francescoli said:

Thanks for taking the time. I can certainly see why you're terrorizing the English leagues now..  It will be quite a  dilemma if/when the second coming of Zinedine Zidane pops up in the intake (hopefully in the next one )

I wouldn't know what to do with a Zizou if he came through the Academy. BPD right?  In fact, all joking aside..... Libero....... 

[Jimbokav1971]

Job Offer #45. Jan 2048. 

This is the 2nd time that Chelsea have approached me. We've also been approached twice by Boston Utd & Nottm Forest and Northampton Town, (our local big club), have offered be the job on no less than 3 occasions. 

In FM19 I was offered the Chelsea job really deep into a save and it was in the post Abramovic era where they were owned by a fan consortium and I loved it. I wonder what sort of owner structure Chelsea have got now?

Just a normal consortium it seems, although they did fail FFP in 2031. 

[Edit]

Oh yeah, I know why they want me. I've looked at this before. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Jimbokav1971

[Jimbokav1971]

Jan 2048. 

League 1. 3 wins out of 5 is decent form and it's interesting that (43f) Fabian (JAM) (Pro) * scored in each of the wins to bring his total goals to the season to 8. (7 penalties from 7 attempts plus 1 free-kick). 

Tranmere have been in decent form and are created a gap of 5 points at the top, but we do have a game in hand. 

York are behind us on goal difference, but have 1 game in hand on us and 2 games in hand on the top 2. 

[-Jef-]

This is the year, I can feel it! Jump over QPR

[Jimbokav1971]

4th fine of the season. Feb 2048.

We drew.

[Jimbokav1971]

Feb 2048. 

League 1. We're unbeaten, but where as we were just winning and losing before, we have now started to just win and draw. 

The real story here though is the form of our GK. I know there has been a fair bit of discussion in here about whether I made a mistake keeping our old GK so long but I think this next graphic will completely clear up that situation once and for all. 6 goals in 13 games is decent for anyone nevermind a GK. (Yes, I do appreciate that he will not score for ages now that I have posted this). 

[Jimbokav1971]

19 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Youth Intake preview. Dec 2047. 

What position are we desperate for? Left back. 

What have we got? A bloomin left back! 

Youth Intake day. Mar 2048.

It's another Golden Generation and (48a) Doyle (F.Pro) at the top of the PA list is a left back. He's not a 5.0 PA player, but maybe he doesn't need to be 5.0 to improve us. 

Squad by PPA. 

Nations represented by previous Youth Intakes. 

New nations represented in this intake. None. 

Let's have a look at the left back 1st. (48a) Doyle (F.Pro) has a decent personality and  I really like him, but the PPM's are really not good. "Doesn't dive into tackles" obviously doesn't fit with the overall save mentality, but actually does fit a player with with low bravery so maybe I need to just accept that as a player who might not fit in with our aggressive style, he still has a lot to offer. I also wasn't aware that it actually caused the player to tackle less, but I knew "dives into tackles" caused a player to tackle more, so it completely makes sense.

"Cuts inside from left wing" is more problematic because it doesn't fit at all with what I want a full-back to do. I don't want him coming inside at all so that PPM is going to have to go asap.

"Brings ball out of defence" is a strange one in that I don't think it's something I have ever used before, and also, (and this might be a problem with my thinking rather than the PPM so feel free to jump in with your comments), but isn't it more suited to a centre-half than a full-back? Now I think about it there is no reason why  it can't be a full-back, but certainly in my head it was always a centre-half with this. 

While he looks a good attacking full back, he appears to really struggle defensively. His positioning is really poor and as well as having a PPM that makes him tackle less, he's also not very good at all at actually tackling. Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way and instead of trying to make him like most of my other players, maybe I should be thinking of him as an individual and asking him to 

I think that a LOT of people have an idea in there head of what a PPM is and what it does, but that this idea is often not exactly the same as what the PPM actually does. (Me included). I don't think I have a player at the club who has the PPM "stays on his feet when tackling" so although I have a basic idea of what it does, I don't know exactly what it does.

(48b) Agombar (Bal) looks like a more "standard" full back, (and I like him), and I also like the "knocks ball past opponent" PPM, but the problem is that it doesn't particularly suit him. I'm not going to get rid of it, and instead I'm going to get his individual training boosting his pace/acceleration. 

(48c) McCulloch (SCO) (Pro) looks great and has a good personality. This time "knocks ball past opponent" seems to really suit him, and I will try and add, "likes to take ball round GK" to him pretty quickly. 

I don't like a striker who has the "looks for pass rather than attempting to score" PPM, but actually it doesn't have to be a negative just so long as the player is a good decision maker and actually if you also combine that with good vision I wonder if this could create a wonderful partnership, (especially where I'm using double AF's for example). When you then also combine it with a striker who isn't the most naturally gifted finisher then maybe this might not be such a bad thing. I think I'm going to keep it in this case. 

[-Jef-]

Doyle honestly looks like a better winger than a full back

Not a bad intake. I have to remind myself every intake that 3* PA is a starter and 5* PA is undisputed star of the team so that 4.5* PA will definitely be someone who can help you get down the line, if he reaches his potential.

[Jimbokav1971]

Dives into tackles PPM. Mar 2048. 

The recent post by @Enzo_Francescolimade me think about tactics, (just a bit), but also made me re-focus a little more on PPM's, (which in my mind are individual tactical instructions). 

"Dives into tackles" is obviously an important element within this save and I really like the way it's working but I wonder how many players with this PPM I have? 

I have just counted and we have 16 different players at the club with this PPM and many more in training. 

[Jimbokav1971]

13 minutes ago, rosque said:

Doyle honestly looks like a better winger than a full back

Not a bad intake. I have to remind myself every intake that 3* PA is a starter and 5* PA is undisputed star of the team so that 4.5* PA will definitely be someone who can help you get down the line, if he reaches his potential.

That's very true. He does look like a better winger than full back, but maybe he is actually the 1st player capable of being a proper WB from the DL line.

With regards to the PA star ratings, day 1 PA ratings mean absolutely nothing. 

Here is the 47 intake. Now 1 year on. The player that jumps out is (47h) Munton (Spirit) * who is developing rather well. He came through as a 3.0 PA player and 1 year on is a 4.0 PA player. 

Here is the 46 intake. Now 2 years on. Time doesn't always improve things though. (46i) McMillan. (L.Det) came through as a 2.5 PA player and has dropped to 2.0 

Here is the 45 intake. Now 3 years on. The right-hand PA column should be highest at the top and lowest at the bottom and you can see it's not like that at all. 

Here is the 44 intake. Now 4 years on. 2044 was a brilliant intake in hindsight, but at the outset it seemed that (44b) Big Don (JAM)(Bal)6'5" * was going to be the star of the show when in reality he has been completely over-shadowed by (44c) Hamilton (F.Pro) *.

Here is the 43 intake. Now 5 years on. Our current 1st choice right back is (43j) Richard Jenkins * and he is one of the most important players at the club. He came through ranked 10th 

In summary, I really try to not make too much of a snap decision on Day 1 of the Intake. 

[Jimbokav1971]

5* PA. Mar 2048.

Something that occurred to me while doing the Youth Intake post was how few players we have at the club with 5.0 PA rating. 

When you consider though that we had 2 players in our starting line-up with 2.0 CA in the last game and a 1.5 CA on the bench, (and that's pretty typical), and a total of 8 players in the matchday squad with a CA of 2.5 then it does at least suggest that we are still very much a team based on PA rather than CA. 

5.0 PA players. 2 players is pretty rubbish if I'm honest with you, but maybe we have loads of players under-valued at 4.5 PA?

4.5 PA players. 

4.0 PA players. 

Usually when thus happens it means that the players against which they are being judged are excellent, but that's not the case in this instance. 

Here is the squad by CA. I find it interesting that not only do we not have a huge amount of potential currently, but we also don't seem to have much in terms of actual ability, (which is a little strange). I'm finding it hard to marry-up the 2 rating systems if I'm honest. 

There are just 10 players at club who have a CA better than 2.5.  That's a pretty staggering statement. 

5.0 CA players. None. 

4.5 CA players. None.

4.0 CA players. Just 1 player.  (44c) Hamilton (F.Pro) * is ranked as the best player at the club, (by CA), but he also wouldn't seem to have the ability to improve much. 

3.5 CA players. 

3.0 CA players. 

Summary. I'm not really sure what conclusions I can draw from this, and that's the main reason for the post, (although of course I love sharing info). In this instance though it just doesn't make sense to me. How can we be both short of PA and of CA. 

The best player at the club, (44c) Hamilton (F.Pro) * is great, I really like him, and hes suited to playing at a higher level than we are currently playing at, (which is obviously great), but he's not a superstar. 

He's developed far more rapidly that I would have expected, but while I would expect him to keep scoring in the Championship for us, I don't imagine him being able to tear-up the premier League for example. His success is built on his physical ability and when he comes up against players of a similar physical ability his technical ability won't be able to love with them. 

So if he's not that great, and we are meant to be producing all these great players, why do we only have 2 players with 5.0 PA?

[Pompeyboyz]

Big question that comes right out of the bat for me here is, who is giving you the opinions on PA and CA?  AssMan or another person?

What are there ratings?

Is it possible that this person might have high JPA and JPP stats but an actual low CA and so they are not really that good???