Europa League? where are you?

[tenthreeleader]

I'm not dismissing Moyes. He's a good manager. But he's won nothing and has never managed in the Champions League proper. I would have expected the people running the biggest sporting enterprise on the planet to act like it by getting the best manager available, and unless he's already committed to Chelsea I think we all know who that is.

Time will tell though. It's days like this where I remind myself that (thank God) it's only a game.

[Jibby123]

I think that Moyes never winning anything is a bit of red herring 10-3. He's constantly built a team that punches well above it's weight and will give any team in Europe a tough game, despite having to sell his best players/prospects regularly or worse never being able to compete in getting Europe's best. Now he can. And he did a superb job at Preston beforehand as well.

I saw a stat today, his net transfer dealings since 2003 are something like +£16M. He's kept Everton competitive against teams who have x10-15 that net spend figure in the same period in England. I don't see how he could be expected to challenge for much with those constraints.

I think he might surprise a few doubters. Sure, stepping in Ferguson's shoes is a no win, whoever it was. You can't really follow what he did, and with time Ferguson's legend will only grow (if that's possible), so everyone will be just waiting for Moyes to trip up, but United could have done a lot worse here. Moyes comes across as one switched on guy.

[chesterfan2]

two points here:

1) Bobby Charlton is reputed to despise The Special One.

2) David Moyes was Sir Alex's preferred candidate. Now I know Sir Alex is not infallible when it comes to judgement calls (Massimo Taibi anyone ?), he has certainly got far more right than wrong.

[Lawlore]

For me, the six-year contract Moyes has got is the key to all of this. That says to me that they'll give a little leeway next season in terms of the learning curve, essentially writing it off to let him get to grips with the parts of the job that aren't so familiar, such as Europe. Unless he's a complete disaster and United are in the lower-half of the table, you've gotta think Moyes is probably safe to be able to get through next season without winning a trophy.

The long-term nature of it also explains why Mourinho probably wouldn't a good fit with United. Because of his success, people forget Jose's had six clubs in 13 years. He hasn't got a reputation for sticking around, regardless of whether things are going well or badly. That jars against United's hiring policy- even before Fergie, Big Ron had five years at the helm. Granted, different era and all that, but they've had the opportunity to observe other clubs self-destruct by hiring and firing, and the commitment in the contract seems to suggest that's not the way they want to operate.

[tenthreeleader]

I realize both of those things. And SAF won a hell of a lot more in this game than I ever did. However, to me and to a lot of other fans, this hire screams "meh".

Ancelotti, Mourinho, maybe even a Jurgen Klopp as possibilities ... and you get David Moyes? With the money pump that is Manchester United hanging in the balance?

Oooookay. I've got no voice, of course, but today's move shows that Manchester United isn't about its fans. Plenty of them that I've seen, on this board and elsewhere, are unimpressed.

[tenthreeleader]

The long-term nature of it also explains why Mourinho probably wouldn't a good fit with United. Because of his success, people forget Jose's had six clubs in 13 years. He hasn't got a reputation for sticking around, regardless of whether things are going well or badly. That jars against United's hiring policy- even before Fergie, Big Ron had five years at the helm. Granted, different era and all that, but they've had the opportunity to observe other clubs self-destruct by hiring and firing, and the commitment in the contract seems to suggest that's not the way they want to operate.

Two of those clubs are Chelsea and Real Madrid, which tend to wreck the "sticking around" curve. Moyes will need to win, and win big, immediately. There's too much money at stake for him not to.

[Balthazars]

Two of those clubs are Chelsea and Real Madrid, which tend to wreck the "sticking around" curve. Moyes will need to win, and win big, immediately. There's too much money at stake for him not to.

I'm honestly not so sure about this. As Lawlore pointed out, they've given him a six year contract, an immensely long term of office for someone untried and untested at this level. It seems to be that the board at United are hoping to build a new dynasty similar to what they had under Fergie, i.e. give a single manager a big chunk of time in order to build his stamp on the club and ensure that stability continues. While it's true that Mourinho has been working at 'trigger-happy' clubs, he is the ego-centric type who is likely to walk out the door the moment he either gets bored and/or fed up. I think the United board want someone who is likely to stick around for a significant period of time. Giving Moyes such a long contract suggests that's what they want from him (long term commitment), so it'll be interesting to see how much they will back him if he doesn't deliver straight away. That said, Fergie's comments in recent weeks suggest that he, and the United board, believe that they have a team in place at the moment that will keep them competitive at the highest level for at least another couple of seasons.

[Panpardus]

I'm a United supporter and so glad it isn't Mourinho, he might be a good great manager but he is one of the biggest tossers going around.

Moyes a fantastic choice for me.

[sherm]

Being a City fan, I'd like to add my two cents worth. Manchester Utd are, without doubt, the biggest and most well renowned club in the world. That, to me, meant they were certain to appoint Jose Mourinho. I was amazed that David Moyes was given the job. Nothing against Moyes, he has done fantastically well with Everton, but can he do the same at OT? I'm not so sure. I understand why they have gone for Moyes in a way, but for a club of their stature and size, it seems a baffling choice. China and other countries who adore United will be thinking "David who?" - Mourinho made far more sense for that choice. I know that had you said to me, as a City fan, Moyes or Mourinho at United, would have been one winner every time - and he isn't Portuguese

[Jibby123]

I realize both of those things. And SAF won a hell of a lot more in this game than I ever did. However, to me and to a lot of other fans, this hire screams "meh".

Ancelotti, Mourinho, maybe even a Jurgen Klopp as possibilities ... and you get David Moyes? With the money pump that is Manchester United hanging in the balance?

Oooookay. I've got no voice, of course, but today's move shows that Manchester United isn't about its fans. Plenty of them that I've seen, on this board and elsewhere, are unimpressed.

Since the Glazer money whores took over when was what United do anything to do with what their fans want?? Glazer out, FC United, Green and yellow scarves weren't born out of fan happiness or being listened to.

Besides, every United fan I speak to never wanted Jose. They're quietly happy with this appointment.

Two of those clubs are Chelsea and Real Madrid, which tend to wreck the "sticking around" curve. Moyes will need to win, and win big, immediately. There's too much money at stake for him not to.

Define 'win big'?? The Champions League?? For all Ferguson's legend he only managed it twice in 40odd years of managing, and 27 at United. Ferguson arguably blew more chances of winning it than any manager ever. He had all the tools at his disposal year in year out since the mid/late 90s. He might not have won any on the splitting of a hair on Bayern taking their earlier chances in 99 and then imploding in just a minute or the slip on the turf of John Terry later in Moscow. Moyes is more than capable of winning Premier Leagues with the squad he's been given. Is that good enough??

Ferguson was given time not to win anything. In this fickle want now all about the money world now?? Moyes I wish him the best.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised 10-3. Don't believe the hype.

[Wegason]

I'm a United supporter and so glad it isn't Mourinho, he might be a good great manager but he is one of the biggest tossers going around.

Moyes a fantastic choice for me.

Agreed.

If Mourinho doesn't get his own way he throws his dummy out of the pram. He hasn't laid down roots, he hasn't rebuilt a team, moving on to the next place that has money to spend. He also hasn't stopped Barcelona, 2 leagues for Barca, 1 for him. This is despite significant outlays.

I am happy with Moyes, the man has done brilliantly to keep Everton very competitive on a very limited budget. The only other manager I'd have liked would have been Jurgen Klopp.

Anyone else find it suspicious that Moyes' contract was running down, he refused to comment until the end of the season and then SAF retires out of the blue? Perhaps Moyes knew this was a possibility?

In any case, I am glad that United went with a man likely to provide stability and with a proven track record of getting the best out of his players, without alienating every other person in the country (a la Mourinho). He's also British which is a bonus and it is likely that the record of no English manager having won the Premier League will continue for some time!

[BenArsenal]

Everybody has to start somewhere. I think we're writing off Moyes even before we've seen what he can do with this squad. It's a whole new thing for him as it is for everyone else. Maybe he'll succeed, maybe he won't, but before anything happens, let's all reserve judgement shall we?

Next season will be VERY interesting indeed.

[Lawlore]

Anyone else find it suspicious that Moyes' contract was running down, he refused to comment until the end of the season and then SAF retires out of the blue? Perhaps Moyes knew this was a possibility?

I'd go more than saying it was a possibility and suggest it was deliberate timing to fit with the end of Moyes' contract. Fergie could just as easily have retired at the end of the previous season or the end of next season- what's a year either way to someone in his position, if it gets the man he wants to be his successor to do so?

[Manxie_Ash]

I expect Pellegrini will be Manchester City manager before the end of next week.

[Jibby123]

I think you're right Manxie.

So chuffed for Wigan, Martinez and Dave Whelan today. Reminds me of FA Cup days gone by. Never a bad day to see the buy quick success, money whores sat on their arse.

[BenArsenal]

Massive surprise, but on the base of play I think Wigan deserved it today.

[mark wilson27]

A great victory for Wigan today. So glad that City lost but that's obviously me being biased.

[Wegason]

Wigan absolutely deserved it, terrific victory. Couldn't have happened for a nicer manager and chairman.

[chesterfan2]

Hats off to Wigan, so pleased for all of them especially Dave Whelan. Now just a matter of beating Arsenal and Villa to stay in the top division

and, as Jibby said, always nice to see the big money boys take a beating

[tenthreeleader]

Great result for Wigan. Unfortunately the mother ship Fox network carried the game here in the States which meant we had to put up with basketball announcer Gus Johnson in the PBP chair. One of those guys who thinks that the louder he yells, the better he sounds. Y'all don't know how good you've got it over there.

If you've got a strong stomach, mash this link.

[Lawlore]

I mashed. Then, because I couldn't watch the video over here, I YouTubed and, uh, yeah. I see what you mean about Johnson. Seems odd they'd pick him over someone from within the game, but I suppose that's partly the point. Throwing him in to such high-profile games is a bit unfair.

Although pairing him with Ian Wright, of all people, is not exactly the smartest move, either. Wrighty as the straight man in a commentary team is doomed to failure- he may bring an infectious passion and strong opinions, but he's not the man you turn to for gravitas, knowledge or providing context.

[Balthazars]

Massive surprise, but on the base of play I think Wigan deserved it today.

Finally had a chance to watch the match, and I have to agree with this. Especially in the first half Wigan were brilliant and the better team overall throughout the match. Well done, played really well, although to be honest City did not really look up for it. Great result, always nice to have a bit of that FA Cup magic happening!

[Jibby123]

Unconfirmed reports coming out that Mancini is gone. Shame, I liked the guy or how he always came across. For a nutter of a player he always seemed calmness personified as a manager amongst the eye of the storm at City.

[swagat sinha]

I can't keep up! So many positions changing. Frantic 90 minutes in a long long time.

[BenArsenal]

Well, the equation is simplified now.

- If Arsenal beat Wigan on Tuesday, Wigan are down.

- And then we have an interesting North London vs North East showdown next weekend for the last CL spot. Spurs vs Sunderland and Newcastle vs Arsenal.

I will be simultaneously an Arsenal and a Sunderland fan next week.

[swagat sinha]

I personally think it's all on the Arsenal Wigan game. The last day games I think would be won by our CL contenders. Imagine, relegation and Champions league decided by one 90 minute game

[BenArsenal]

I really wonder why Man City would want to sack Mancini now, with two games left to go in the season and nothing to play for. Surely they can wait for a week when the season's over?

[salkster2102]

Wigan must win tomorrow or they are down. A draw will keep them safe for a week but an 11 swing in goal difference is too much, even if Sunderland are at Spurs. Arsenal need 2 wins and they really couldn't have asked for an easier run in. I'm sure everyone will be rooting for Wigan to win but I fear history is going to be made with the FA Cup winners being relegated.

I can't see Mancini being sacked before the end of the season. I would expect the trigger to be fired a few days after the final game. It's probably the best for both parties that he leaves since he constantly berates the City officials in public. The players don't seem to have that same motivation and a new manager will give them a kick up the backside ready to take on Moyes. I'm surprised they are going for Pellegrini though, I would have thought they would try and get Mourinho but maybe he already has a done deal with Chelski.

[Jibby123]

....I'm surprised they are going for Pellegrini though, I would have thought they would try and get Mourinho but maybe he already has a done deal with Chelski.

Am also surprised. I don't know much about Pellegrini, but apparently highly rated by those who do? Also guessing the Mourinho deal has been rubber stamped some time ago. The spanish journalist on Sky (can't remember name, but seems pretty well connected most of the time ) said a few weeks ago all that was being negotiated was who was going to pay who and how much.

Something like....

Madrid want him gone. Would have to pay ~£10M to Jose to sack him

Jose wants to go to Chelsea. He would have to pay Real if he resigns before his contract is up (Real have that clause).

Chelsea want Jose. But would have to pay Real compensation if he goes without Real sacking him.

They all want the same thing, now just negotiating an acceptable fee(s) for all concerned.

Allegedly. But the Spanish sky guy is usually not far from the 'truth' on contacts in Spain/Real Madrid. Though nothing should surprise me in football anymore....

[salkster2102]

So Mancini has been sacked. The timing is just weird if you ask me. At least let him say goodbye at the final game on Sunday.

[tenthreeleader]

And now Rooney wants to go, meaning David Moyes will have the honor of selling him twice.

[Animosama]

Really don't want him to go but he asked for a transfer twice. i dont see him leaving england and I don't see him taking a pay cut. So city ?

[tenthreeleader]

Since Rooney is under contract until 2015, they won't sell -- especially to City -- in this close season, or anyone else they don't want to sell to. If he goes, and that's still a big if, my guess is it will be outside England.

[Animosama]

Well man utd usually renew contracts with 2-1.5 years left. I don't see them making it run down for he might leave on a free in the next 2 years. I don't see any club outside of England buying because of tax laws. The only club I see him going to are man city n maybe monaco ? For they are the only ones how can pay his wages ? For believe me rooney is not going to take a wage cut. Plus I don't see him leave England because of his child and wife.I just don't see them coping with a different lifestyle in a foreign country. That's why I say city. As much as Arsenal hated to sell RVP man utd they had to for he didn't want to leave England. If practically the same situation he has like 2 years like the RVP situation. So If he is going to leave it will be on Rooney term's and not the Man utd terms. So if he wants to go to city. There is nothing Man utd can do to stop him for he can just leave on a free in the next 2 years. So the only thing stopping the city move is maybe Rooney's conscience ? If he stays he will be on a big wage. He probably just wants a big wage again like the last time.

[tenthreeleader]

Possible. But as far as clubs he might go to that could afford him on the Continent, PSG springs to mind. United would be insane to sell Rooney to Chelsea, City, or Arsenal, and how many other clubs are there in England who could legitimately afford him?

But with time on their side I don't see him going anywhere in England in the summer window. Perhaps in January, when United still holds the advantage and clubs tend to overpay, it might be different. Could easily be wrong though.

[Balthazars]

Since Rooney is under contract until 2015, they won't sell -- especially to City -- in this close season, or anyone else they don't want to sell to. If he goes, and that's still a big if, my guess is it will be outside England.

What about if Arsenal comes and asks really nicely, given how selling them RVP firstly a) helped them to win the title and b) made Rooney unhappy in the first place?

[tenthreeleader]

Well, as long as they're polite.

[Balthazars]

In other news, not surprised to see Mancini gone. He was just so negative this season! For the reigning champions and still possessing a pretty darned good team, Mancini just seemed all over the shop, moaning and groaning, and most significantly to me, refusing to accept any responsibilities for the woes of the team.

Everyone else seemed to be to blame: the administration at City for not buying the players he wanted; his own players for either not putting in enough effort (Nasri), putting country over club (Kompany) or 'talking out of line' (Hart), referees (well, everyone does that to be fair), and the most ridiculous of all, other teams for not playing as well against United as they did against City. Honestly, with such a negative blame-shifting attitude and a seeming unwilingness to take any responsibility or work to fix some of the problems, I'm not surprised that he's gone.

Other rumours suggest Madrid tried to get Ancelotti from PSG (who refused), suggesting that Mourinho is indeed off - with Pelligrini lined up for City, and Moyes at United, surely it means that him returning to Chelsea is an almost certainty.

[Balthazars]

Well, as long as they're polite.

Done deal then, Wenger knows how to turn on that sophisticated charm when he wants to!

In all seriousness, you're absolutely right. No way United sell him to someone else in England. PSG or Barca would be my guess - the former because they are the new big-money kings and would love another high-profile signing. The latter because it seems they are shifting their style and focus, and one of the areas they've struggled with this season has been with their strikers (Villa apparently on the outer and the others have been inconsistent). While defenders is probably going to be Barca's main targets in the summer, I can see them being very interested in Rooney if he really does become available.

[BenArsenal]

So Mancini has been sacked. The timing is just weird if you ask me. At least let him say goodbye at the final game on Sunday.

Exactly. Sacking him now achieves no purpose whatsoever.

[salkster2102]

Just to throw one in there in you may laugh at this, Rooney to Spurs if they qualify for the Champs League? Maybe would also keep Bale happy at Spurs if he sees players of Rooney's calibre going in. Spurs have never really been shy about paying daft wages out either.

[Balthazars]

Just to throw one in there in you may laugh at this, Rooney to Spurs if they qualify for the Champs League? Maybe would also keep Bale happy at Spurs if he sees players of Rooney's calibre going in. Spurs have never really been shy about paying daft wages out either.

I think you're overestimating Spurs' financial capabilities. They spend a lot of money but their net spend is low, their big transfers have been funded usually by selling lots of players. I doubt they could afford either the transfer fee or his wages, to be honest. That said, if they made the Champions League, yes, I could see them trying to go for him given that as you rightly point out, he would be a big coup (they do need a striker too) and a signal of intent.

[UkFootballScore]

How can you say spurs throw out daft wages we've got one of the tighest budgets in the league haha

[Jibby123]

How can you say spurs throw out daft wages we've got one of the tighest budgets in the league haha

They have one of the highest wage bills I thought? In the top 3 or 4 highest? When you consider what it's achieved in terms of honours or finals got to, then 'daft' might describe it quite well?

[chesterfan2]

Hola, A quick question if you don't mind.....

Playing a career game at the mo, managing a club near the top of League Two, it being a career game I have seen an opportunity I would have liked, and applied for it, after a while I get this in my e-mail box: "Sheff Utd flattered by Fantu interest........and then says 'A Sheffield United source admitted they would be foolish not to consider someone of Fantu's caliber and they would be stepping up their interest should Fantu indicate a willingness to enter into discussions."

It then says "The source added that realistically however, there was no way United could afford the compensation fee to approach the Northampton manager"

So, does it mean if I resign they'll offer me the job ? or is it just fluff and padding ? In the game I didn't resign and I didn't get the job.

Ta muchly

[BenArsenal]

It then says "The source added that realistically however, there was no way United could afford the compensation fee to approach the Northampton manager"

So, does it mean if I resign they'll offer me the job ? or is it just fluff and padding ?

Ta muchly

I think so

[chesterfan2]

Thanks Ben, I'll give it a go next time it comes up....

Meanwhile. and apropos of not much else, can I just say, for all our Aussie Rules Supporting bretheren, Yay Geelong !

[Panpardus]

Geelong look good this year, just beat my team Essendon who is under a lot of scrutiny at the moment.

I might right a small review with 1/3rd of the season played soon if I get the time, there's a few surprises but much is going the way it was expected.

[tenthreeleader]

Unfortunately, Hawthorn hasn't been on since the opening week over here, so I have to watch lesser teams

Looking forward to 6th July again when we see the Cats. Hopefully that will be televised.

[Balthazars]

Geelong look good this year, just beat my team Essendon who is under a lot of scrutiny at the moment.

I might right a small review with 1/3rd of the season played soon if I get the time, there's a few surprises but much is going the way it was expected.

Is Melbourne being beyond useless count as one of the 'few surprises'?

@10-3: I would imagine if there is a restricted amount of games being shown, that one will be picked, as it is between two of the likely Premiership candidates.