So How Will FM09 cope with Man City ?

[manc101]

Well actually most people just want the game to be realistic.

and this hole thread is about the money side of FM.

[Rashidi]

I think incorporating the changes aren't too difficult given that ADUG has only just moved in and the Robinho transfer is almost done. It does appear that the club will have its coffers swelled substantially. What I'm more keen to see is better balancing in the game, I'd like clubs to become more ambitious when their coffers swell, or tactics of teams to become more dyanmic to managerial changes. I don't think there is enough of that in the game as it is now. I'd be very interested to see if FM2009 offers more in terms of club/managerial dynamics and whether there is a better linkage between club finances and the real world finances. I would like to see an occassional takeover now and then in the game that stirs things up. ADUG aren't the only soverign fund in the world and they AREN"T the largest. There will be more takeovers in the future of football, of that I have no doubt; what remains to be seen is how this is made more dynamic..a simple takeover message is not enough. Clubs who have been taken over...need to be in the news more everything needs to be more dynamic. In FM 2008, takeovers felt like an afterthought and managerial differences were barely noticeable.

[nots]

Well i hope SI make it realistic if thats how it is in real life i hope SI give that much money to city in the game.

If we want it to be realistic.....

(im a city fan yes )

i really hope man city now burn and die

they will be taking chelsea's spending to a new level and it is just ridiculous....

[FreddeCM]

Warning!!!

"OFFTOPIC ON"

It´s an easy way to go if you want to become very famous. Buy a team in PL and spend so mutch you can.

"OFFTOPIC OFF"

[ledi]

The real thing to wonder about is the extra money that will be pumped ino the world of FM. How does it get distributed/ trickle down etc?

This is something that needs just as much consideration.

(Sorry if this goes a little OT) Agreed, this is something that really needs to be taken seriously in general.. In FM08 I find the financial model already heavily flawed in the sense that small clubs, especially in the smaller countries get far too wealthy with the unrealistic transfer fees and such. I mean come on, a club in Finland that has never played in the UCL and has a stadium capacity of around 5000 are spending millions on transfers within a few years since the game started and not investing them on their facilities at all.

I swear this happens all the time in the game, and really ruins my gaming experience in the small leagues where, realistically, I really should have to struggle financially just to keep my club running, instead of gaining millions from player transfer fees and getting them all to my transfer budget.

[backpackant]

Couple of points in my opinion:

1. Just because the firm who bought it is worth £500BILLION or whatever, it doesn't mean that they'll invest £200-£500million or anywhere near that amount. Unless they are truly bored rich people who are chasing nothing but glory they WILL want to make a profit pretty shortly. Which makes the researchers' jobs even harder because it's hard to tell what these guys will do -- so please don't be too hard on them if they get it wrong. Remember the rumours that Abramovich's millions so far are in the form of interest free loans.

2. As a brand spanking new manager, it is reasonable to think they will not open up an unlimited Aladin's cave to YOU. Therefore don't be surprised if your transfer budget is a more modest £50-70million. Perhaps they could do what FM07 did with Randy Lerner at Villa, along the lines of "Your budget is £xxxxxx, but if you can persuade a big name to join we will fund the difference."

In terms of the board, it might be more realistic to do what one of the other posters here said: set the board takeover date as 31sth August, so you can play with the £10million from the Thai guy until the final day of the window. Personally, I'd really enjoy that.

[JonPaulWild]

It's a tough one for SI to implement. I think an increase in transfer funds, bank balance and one or two other things will happen in the gold release. Then I think as time goes on then the patch that tends to come out around February will possibly might make changes depending on the situation that should then become clearer.

[damienroden]

what makes you think these players will go to city? abrom isnt as rich as these but he is very rich, and he hasnt been able to get the BEST players in the world, it wasnt as if ronaldinho and co suddenly turned up at the gates of stamford bridge asking for a slice of the pie, but everyone thought they would. of course a couple will be pursuaded, but dont forget they only signed robinho because he was bcked into a corner, apparently he had been crying everyday about living in madrid, o if he couldnt go to chelsea city was the only option. kaka is the biggest player chelsea have signed, and that is only because of big phil.

[damienroden]

edit: it posted three times, not sure how. sorry.

[damienroden]

edit:as above.

[nellie0026]

It's all about money, isn't it? How sad.

When was the Premier League not all about money ??

Does anyone remember Blackburn and a certain Mr J Walker ? I know the figures are massively different, but the effect will be the same.

[JumbledSausage]

As we know FM09 is nearing completion and then this happens. A Country, yes country (well their investment arm actually) with twice as much money as Roman Abramovich has taken over Man City. Will this be included in the new game ? More importantly will finances in the new game be tweaked to allow higher balances in the light of this investment, and if so by how much ?

I think the main problem for FM09 is going to be how to get the financial balance right between clubs when we don't even know yet for sure how that's going to pan out. City are talking of buying Christiano Ronaldo for £134 million pounds, and 18 other new players including Fabregas and Torres, which hasn't happened yet, but will it ? And how will FM09 be able to cope with it if it does ?

This is a big challenge for Football Manager, it will be interesting to see if it's dealt with, or ducked.

Actually, it's nearer 10 or 20 times richer than Roman Abramovich - he is not even in the league of the owners of Man City, which is downright frightening. (As a Hull fan, it further proves that we will never be able to compete at the very top of the Premiership in the near future and the best we can hope for is survival intially and then trying to get into the top 10).

Anyway, back to the point, it should prove a most interesting time for a neutral. I doubt that Man City will be able to obtain Torres, Fabregas et al from the Premiership, however, if I were them, I would be looking for big names at foreign clubs, and lower-prem clubs...names like Kaka, Villa, Messi et al. Bring on the "big 5"!!!!!

[Dirky Diggler]

It's a tough one for SI to implement. I think an increase in transfer funds, bank balance and one or two other things will happen in the gold release. Then I think as time goes on then the patch that tends to come out around February will possibly might make changes depending on the situation that should then become clearer.

They clearly arent going to get anyone they want in real life as they couldnt get Berbatov, I doubt they will get many amazing players until they make the champions league. Ronaldinho turned them down also and he was offered 250k a week, granted, it was before these new geezers took over, but it was only a month ago. and he would have been made the second highest paid player in the world behind beckham.

Chelsea were a better team with a better reputation close to or in the champions league when abramovich took over so he was able to attract better quality of players, Buying the so caled best players in the world wont bring them success anyway they need to have the correct blend which comes from the manager.

Mourinho didnt go out and buy ronaldinho, kaka, zidane, etc, he bought good players that fit into his way of playing (carvalho, maniche, essien, drogba, cech etc etc etc)

This should be modeled on FM as such. Some players will still not want to come to England, due to weather, style of football or just a preference to move to Spain. Greedy players will go wherever the money is, but some of them will not perform due to conditions in this country. I think the FM transfer model, should be more biased towards individual player hidden stats, rather than rep of team/league I think style of football and weather aswell as a few other variables should come into it. So individual players would completley refuse a transfer to a country they didnt like. As it is, on FM currently if you put your league rep up then any player will come to you regardless

[Dirky Diggler]

what makes you think these players will go to city? abrom isnt as rich as these but he is very rich, and he hasnt been able to get the BEST players in the world, it wasnt as if ronaldinho and co suddenly turned up at the gates of stamford bridge asking for a slice of the pie, but everyone thought they would. of course a couple will be pursuaded, but dont forget they only signed robinho because he was bcked into a corner, apparently he had been crying everyday about living in madrid, o if he couldnt go to chelsea city was the only option. kaka is the biggest player chelsea have signed, and that is only because of big phil.

When did Kaka sign for Chelsea?? as far as I understand hes signed a contract extension ith Milan until 2013?

[damienroden]

When did Kaka sign for Chelsea?? as far as I understand hes signed a contract extension ith Milan until 2013?

haha you got me, deco sorry.

[chesterfan2]

Would be interested to hear what SI have got to say about this, does anyone know of any thread where they've said anything ?

[r0x0r]

I'd say that Deco is dwarfed by Ballack and Schevchenko.

Yes. Laugh away, but when they signed him, Andre was considered the BEST striker in the world.

[Riz Remes]

Woot.

Time for Riz to get coding "Hedge / Sovereign Wealth Fund" feature.

Like I said in the other financial thread earlier today...the finances of the football world are always changing. And we need to try and keep up with the changes in the code the best we can

[GerdMuller]

Wouldnt the solution be to have no "capped" willingness of players to come to a club with this and that reputation. So the system keeps like it is, but a player can be approached by any club. If he normally would reject the offer due to low reputation of the club this can be neglected by ridiculuos amounts of cash offered. Basically this system is already in, just leave out the part where a player doesnt sign due to low reputation and make the effects of additional money offered minimal if a player wouldnt "normally" sign. Got me?

[dada]

Are you able to set the personal wealth of owners etc in this game?

[arfaern]

I say congratulations man city on ruining football along with all the other teams with foreign investors. It will make the game pointless as city will walk away with the league every year. And no other team will get close.

Money and buying up players all over is not a key to success, look at Chelsea, Liverpool, Real Madrid and etc. lots of clubs have tried spend a lot of money in a certain part of their history on players for the new season but have rarely meat with long term success. Those players are just mercenaries and mostly don't live up to the expectations.

The finances module needs a lot work since it has not been touched since ages ago and hopefully will take into account the new inputs of cash in real life football.

[Tommy \'the red\' Howard]

Man City are a team that beat Fc Midgetland on penalties. Even though they have bought Robinho doesn't mean they will do well in the prem this season. Players still reject Chelsea (Gerrard, Villa etc.) and the world's best players still won't join Man City even if they are paid 1 million a week. Man City will become a better team but not the world's best, not even the premiership's best. If they finish in the top four over the next 5 years I would personally be amazed.

[Riz Remes]

The finances module needs a lot work since it has not been touched since ages ago and hopefully will take into account the new inputs of cash in real life football.

As a matter of fact, a lot of work and changes have been done to the financial module over the last few years. There have also been a lot of new additions to the database over the last few years to allow researchers to input more accurate financial data such club tv deals, individual sponsorship deals etc.

[arfaern]

As a matter of fact, a lot of work and changes have been done to the financial module over the last few years. There have also been a lot of new additions to the database over the last few years to allow researchers to input more accurate financial data such club tv deals, individual sponsorship deals etc.

Maybe true under the hood but from the looks of the Income/Expenditures screens not much has changed in the form of ways of cash flowing in & out of the club between 06/07/08. Sure in FM 08 you have much more influence on the finances like players bonuses, and the transfer/wage total amounts balancing etc. but i feel that the part Merchandising/Advertising/Sponsorship has not changed much.

Also I would like to see more influence that the finances have on club stature, transfers and etc. For example if clubs know that you have massive amounts of cash at your disposal they are more likely to want you to offer more money for their players than from clubs with a smaller account balances, like wise with the player wages.

It should also have a better impact on the club it self like spending more on youth development (not only facilities) to produce better players. Since producing good young players is not just talent & facilities or spending cash on preseason training camps like many top real-life clubs do to achieve better result or simply certain players demanding from the club certain accommodations and etc. which a wealthier club can afford and the less wealthy can't (look at lampard's chelsea contract).

[Svenc]

The finances module needs a lot work since it has not been touched since ages ago and hopefully will take into account the new inputs of cash in real life football.

Not only new inputs, but also the specifics of each league as a whole, like governing bodies who take a close look at what's going on. Eventually even rejecting licences, relegating a club to a lower level. About Man City: it is like it is in the real World, and so it can also be in the game. Equal opportunity is but an idea, but in real-life football it doesn't exist like that, and never did. Whether on national or international level, on higher league or lower league level.

Some clubs are hailing from economically rather weak regions, where healthy sponors pumping billions of cash into football don't exist. And while the Bundesliga is said to be the financially healthiest football league in the World, with pretty much every single club making a plus during the course of a season (something unheard of for many a club in the the Premier League, for instance), it also is quite a bit behind in TV revenues. But it' still earning lots of cash compared to smaller leagues. Then there's also different tax rates at work, etc. It's not easy to take all of that into account at all, but there's much, much room to make it far more accurate as is now still. Private investors are taking this issue on a whole new level, that's true. I've said it elsewhere, but in fact FM is really rather basic when it comes to finances. It's not like this wouldn't have an effect on you as a manger at all. Far from that.

[rbnrbn]

the problem here is if you put a cap on spending how do the teams like everton, villa etc. catch the top four?

in FM this would not be too much of a problem, because you can build a great side by scouting systems and investing in youth, but in reality this not only costs a heck of a lot of money but requires worlwide contacts and is a massive logistical problem (but it is possible; look at arsenal and wenger).

IRL it is difficult to attract class players (however young) to a team that does not have a massive reputation. i think this is too easy in FM at the moment to snap up potential world class players when they are 17/18, and this needs to be addressed.

a solution to your original question would maybe be to cap spending according to where you finished in the league last season. easy concept - if you are relegated from/promoted to the prem, you can spend as much as you like. this is reduced on a sliding scale up to the league winners, who could spend a maximum, say, of £15m on transfer fees.

****, i think thats actually a pretty good idea (if i say so myself)!

that's like a less crude version of poker. Where players are alotted small/big blinds. If you get me?

good idea

[FrostyTheBush]

I reckon they should get infinite funds in game, will be interesting competing against them.

[kenmfssrox]

Lol to the last post

I think, as Leeds and Chelsea demonstrated, you need to spend money wisely in order to be successful for a long period of time.

It will be the players like Kompany, Elano and Garrido that will be the right players for the club. As for the Robinhos of this world, I'm not too sure.

That's why use Football Manager

[bened1ct]

With foreign investment the club should receive initial high income and it decreases over the next few seasons as they look to make a profit on their investment. It wouldn't be right for them to have infinite funding. A possible example Man City.

season one, 500mil to spend;season two 350mil to spend etc etc

This way they still have the opportunity to fulfill their investors ambitions but doesn't completely destroy the balance of the game.

Oh, and if the investors aren't looking for a profit on their investment we are all doomed. We shall see in January...

anyway just an idea...

[Onizukaeikichi]

thx, man city, for ******** on football even further.

[soccerfan415]

what makes you think these players will go to city? abrom isnt as rich as these but he is very rich, and he hasnt been able to get the BEST players in the world, it wasnt as if ronaldinho and co suddenly turned up at the gates of stamford bridge asking for a slice of the pie, but everyone thought they would. of course a couple will be pursuaded, but dont forget they only signed robinho because he was bcked into a corner, apparently he had been crying everyday about living in madrid, o if he couldnt go to chelsea city was the only option. kaka is the biggest player chelsea have signed, and that is only because of big phil.

chelsea have signed kaka :confused::confused::confused::confused:

lol

[CGSilva5]

I would say that rather than worry about the club's finances in this situation, SI should put more emphasis on the individual players (their personal ratings, like determination, loyalty, etc).

I'd say in this case with City and Robinho, it's a matter of Robinho's decision being the exception, not the rule. So maybe Robinho has less determination, or maybe less motivation, whatever term may be that describes his decision to leave a top class club for more money, or perhaps a less stressful enviornment...I'm not sure what it is exactly. Maybe Robinho is a player who becomes jaded easily, or maybe he's light hearted and has the potential to fall out of favor at a club that is extremely competitive.

It's sort of a complex situation, but I think most of the work needs to be done with the players and not necessarily with the club.

EDIT

Other examples...

Kaka: He more than likely has a very high loyalty rating to turn down offers from Chelsea, a club that has been more or less just as successful as his, if not more.

Diego: He's probably in the same boat as Kaka, he turned down offers from Real and signed a new long term deal at Werder Bremen. A club with a lot less reputation, but perhaps his loyalty keeps him there, maybe it's a lack of determination?

[FMFanatic8080]

As we know FM09 is nearing completion and then this happens. A Country, yes country (well their investment arm actually) with twice as much money as Roman Abramovich has taken over Man City. Will this be included in the new game ? More importantly will finances in the new game be tweaked to allow higher balances in the light of this investment, and if so by how much ?

I think the main problem for FM09 is going to be how to get the financial balance right between clubs when we don't even know yet for sure how that's going to pan out. City are talking of buying Christiano Ronaldo for £134 million pounds, and 18 other new players including Fabregas and Torres, which hasn't happened yet, but will it ? And how will FM09 be able to cope with it if it does ?

This is a big challenge for Football Manager, it will be interesting to see if it's dealt with, or ducked.

lmfao, twice? try 50x

[BlademanX]

So is everyone gona use City just like they use to use Chelsea???? The object to being a good manager is finding bargain players and good players. Any clown in a tin hat can use a rich club though.

[FMFanatic8080]

People seem to forget that Chelsea were going to walk the league every season, but as of yet, they have failed to live up to expectations, having only one it twice in five seasons. For what whas expected, thats really not been that good. Man City will most probably do the same and fail to become quite the club people expected.

Dont forget Sir Alex will retire in max 3 years.

For the past how many years, it was between man utd and arsenal dominating now sooner than later (especially when C. Ronaldo leaves) it will be chelsea vs man city but come dubai to liverpool, EPL will explode with mega stars. Sorry Seria A and La Liga

[BlademanX]

Really only SI could reply to that if they have made the chances in the game development for that to possibly happen

Isnt it easier to just cheat by using the editor if it doesnt???

[FMFanatic8080]

People seem to forget that Chelsea were going to walk the league every season, but as of yet, they have failed to live up to expectations, having only one it twice in five seasons. For what whas expected, thats really not been that good. Man City will most probably do the same and fail to become quite the club people expected.

So is everyone gona use City just like they use to use Chelsea???? The object to being a good manager is finding bargain players and good players. Any clown in a tin hat can use a rich club though.

it sure as hell will be fun to get c. ronaldo and dump him into reserves for his peak period!! oh man how that will feel,

[Themistofelis]

Money do not guarantee success , a club can have lets say 25 players , how many of them are going to be the best in their positions? 15 ? that leaves 200 or more "close to the best" ones for other clubs to sign.

If i was sir Alex and City offered me 200m euros i would take Ronaldo on my back and carry him to their stadium on foot .

[Nomis07]

I don't see all this fuss about City, atm all we have had is paper talk and half assed musings about what might be. I seem to remember Derby talking about competing for Europe whenever they got taken over, Chelsea where going to win the European cup every season and who can forget the glorious failure that was the Real Madrid Galacticos team.

As of now City's new owners have spent £32m, perhaps when they put their money where their mouth is next season we'll be able to hazard a guess at how FM and football in general should try to cope woth them.

[Ranbir]

I hope the economy does get fixed. It is crazy I can end up with £2billion in the bank with budget of £1 billion. I wouldn't mind that if the game made the AI clubs adapt to the changing financial powers. Sometimes AI clubs have this much money and still rarely buy players or hesitate thinking £30 is "too much". Please, if they have money to throw around, have them throw it around!

[smileylad]

For a start, maybe they could buy their own stadium with some of that money...

[fettot]

funny.

prices on english players will go up even further and there national team will be even worse when young english lads will not go above div1 fotball as regualars for their teams.

[phnompenhandy]

For me, there is one issue in this Man City saga that should impact on FM09.

Out of the blue, we have a classic instance of a sugar daddy. FM already has this feature but is only enabled if the gamer activates it in the editor. I'd say the AI should chuck out the odd sugar daddy take-over, resulting in a huge injection of cash, AND a new board with maximum ambition and low patience.

[dizze]

Well i hope SI make it realistic if thats how it is in real life i hope SI give that much money to city in the game.

If we want it to be realistic.....

(im a city fan yes )

But would players like ronaldo and torres go to man city?

ronaldo would not go to man city ever!!!!!!!!!

im a man utd fan

[Adam_bluebird1901]

i wonder if si will bring in the thing in football that really bugs me

the fact that as soon as a club throws the money at a player they suddenly become a life long supporter of that side. Would be good if certain players did have a hidden greed stat meaning they hold clubs to ransom for bigger deals and request transfers if a richer club makes a snif of an enquiry over him.

Add to the realism of modern day football abit

[Nomis07]

Would be good if certain players did have a hidden greed stat

It's not exactly the same, but I assume loyalty, controv and ambition, are the back up attributes for greed and a plaers willingness to club jump for money.

[Adam_bluebird1901]

yeah but at the moment they will only go if its a club like i.e man utd etc (bigger club) what im talking about is even if say a smaller club gets bought out like west ham, portsmouth. the players wanting to go play for them even if its just a sideways step or a backwards step just so they can get their hands on abit more green

[Nomis07]

That does happen atm though, i've managed to attract players to teams like Blackburn when Chelsea were also interested, I managed to do it by offering them ridiculous wages and signing on fees.

Even the AI does it, I had a 23 yr old CB sign for Southampton instead of me because I wouldn't give him his high wages and I was Bayern Munich.

[anthony]

all i can say is money dosent guarantee u succses u need the right sort of players in with the right attitude and the right people behind the scenes example right manager and coaching staff

[pelicanstuff]

For me, there is one issue in this Man City saga that should impact on FM09.

Out of the blue, we have a classic instance of a sugar daddy. FM already has this feature but is only enabled if the gamer activates it in the editor. I'd say the AI should chuck out the odd sugar daddy take-over, resulting in a huge injection of cash, AND a new board with maximum ambition and low patience.

I dunno, I've had stuff like that happen quite a bit on '07, not so much on 08. One time I got given just under £10m to spend to get Hartlepool out of league 2, then a fat chunk more the next season.