jamie c Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 It is a bit hit an miss, think it is suited to the big teams. Can play really well or get absolutely hammered. Bit exposted at the back, think it is a good tactic and a good effort, bet is successful for a lot of people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeesusChrist Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 hey steaton, sadly this tactic doesn't want to work in non league, Concede far too many chances and inevitably goals as well. creating less than the opposition! I tried it without adjusting and i won 1 game using Guisley in the friendlies, I know it is early days but I've had far better results with other tactics for Guisley, here are my results: - Guisley Reserves, 2-1 loss bad start when you think our first team is naturally superior, pretty even chances with 3-2 on cccs. Accrington H 2-1 loss, more encouraging v a L2 side but only created 5 chances to their 11 with 2-4 on cccs Reading res H 5-3 win looks better than it was, created 14 to their 10 chances with 2-2 on cccs couple of screamer if memory serves me correctly! Hartlepool H 2-1 loss 10 shots to 16 with 2-4 cccs again v higher opposition Marine A 3-0 loss Lower league loss, 15 shots to 11 with 3cccs each. big warning signs in that game Alfreton H 3-1 loss only 1 division above with 10 shots each but 0-2 cccs I adjusted the few bits like you said and the other bit on post 92 I believe then got these results: - Leeds H 1-0 loss expected worse and should've been 1 shot to 17 with 0-4 on cccs - fair enough on this one. Matlock A 1-1 Lower league draw with 10 shots to 5 with 2-0 on cccs persevered into the league: - solihul H 3-2 9 shots to 7 with 4 cccs a piece, definitely concerning gainsborough A 3-0 loss 12 shots to 7 losing 1-3 on cccs Granted it hasn't had a full test but surely I should have done better as I have with other tactics at the same stage do so! So unless you know of any ways to help lower leagues, it seems it will only work for good teams. I liked the idea overall though as I have been using the rainmaker previously but I wanted to try a tactic with wingers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miiksern Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Topping League 2 with Accrington first season after 15 games(10-1-4), O'Callaghan and Howieson(Loan) only signings. Media prediction: 24th. Would say that's pretty decent! I wouldn't mind a version with tighter defense but in any case, well done Steaton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioli1 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 started a brand new campaign with strasbourg. used other 2 tactics first 2 games, no pluged this one into the 3rd game. First game a wonderful 4-2 home victory. keep you updated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokturno Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 so far with wolves in league 1. 13 games in the league, 13 wins (some 4-3 wins a couple of times, everything else was a clear 2-4 goal margin of victory) I also knocked out Liverpool and Derby both Away in the cup, got man city next round so not expecting another miracle! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 I have have got full familiarity levels now, and the last two games with your tactic: (I am soton)1. http://i57.tinypic.com/2d0i5hi.jpg[/img]"] I have a good squad, so dont understand why my team suck so much, almost every shot against me = goals Makes no sense from what I've seem this doesn't really happen - unless perhaps you modified something even something minor or used OI. Familiarity isn't event all that important it should work anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Ah right I can believe it wouldn't work in non league haven't tested it enough. I've found that short passing, expressive were a problem long time back in maybe 14.1. p.s. reports of inconsistency don't match my experience so if you have this experience it surprises me (yes it leaks the odd goal but that not inconsistent cause it score more consistently). PLEASE POST INFO IF INCONSISTENT OR POOR RESULTS and confirm you have not made an modification or used OI at all even if you went a goal down or anything - after 90 mins you will have a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 p.s Defence has been tightened successfully so watch this space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasmuss Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I think I have a new version that is even better and solid as can be in defense, and that not because there are no shots but because the shots are ineffective and because I have eliminated waste elsewhere I've managed to improve the attacking opportunities without effecting other parts of the tactic. The working out of the changes for the tactic has taken a lot of much time - now the litmus test - how does my new version perform versus version 1.Results to follow just going to go play it. When do you think you have your new tweaked version ready? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 By default they will cut inside, looking at the individual instructions I would assume opposite foot to wing would be better as they would cut in and pass/shoot while full backs overlap and cross. This isn't something I look at much - never considered it all that important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 hey steaton, sadly this tactic doesn't want to work in non league, Concede far too many chances and inevitably goals as well. creating less than the opposition! I tried it without adjusting and i won 1 game using Guisley in the friendlies, I know it is early days but I've had far better results with other tactics for Guisley, here are my results: -Guisley Reserves, 2-1 loss bad start when you think our first team is naturally superior, pretty even chances with 3-2 on cccs. Accrington H 2-1 loss, more encouraging v a L2 side but only created 5 chances to their 11 with 2-4 on cccs Reading res H 5-3 win looks better than it was, created 14 to their 10 chances with 2-2 on cccs couple of screamer if memory serves me correctly! Hartlepool H 2-1 loss 10 shots to 16 with 2-4 cccs again v higher opposition Marine A 3-0 loss Lower league loss, 15 shots to 11 with 3cccs each. big warning signs in that game Alfreton H 3-1 loss only 1 division above with 10 shots each but 0-2 cccs I adjusted the few bits like you said and the other bit on post 92 I believe then got these results: - Leeds H 1-0 loss expected worse and should've been 1 shot to 17 with 0-4 on cccs - fair enough on this one. Matlock A 1-1 Lower league draw with 10 shots to 5 with 2-0 on cccs persevered into the league: - solihul H 3-2 9 shots to 7 with 4 cccs a piece, definitely concerning gainsborough A 3-0 loss 12 shots to 7 losing 1-3 on cccs Granted it hasn't had a full test but surely I should have done better as I have with other tactics at the same stage do so! So unless you know of any ways to help lower leagues, it seems it will only work for good teams. I liked the idea overall though as I have been using the rainmaker previously but I wanted to try a tactic with wingers. I would expect better! Not sure whats going on or what might have been done worng but perhaps you can share save game and post me a link - then I'll report back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 When do you think you have your new tweaked version ready? Well assuming it passes all the tests then this weekend - but the results from existing tactic are better than any other yet available IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 What kind of striker do you need for this tactic to work best (e.g. pacey, big, technical)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfiress Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Have you posted a modified version yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barongimpy Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 My initial impressions... This is an absolutely brilliant tactic - best I've used in FM2014 by FAR. Constant chances and almost all in the box rather hopeful shots from range. I've not found it concedes too many personally - after 14 games my Liverpool side has conceded 9 goals which is the least in the Premier League. I'm nearly at the busy Christmas period so we'll see but whilst I've been beaten twice (away to Man Utd and home to Chelsea down to 9 men) it was only by a single goal and I've absolutely dominated every other game, getting stronger and stronger the more fluid the tactic gets. Honda is currently top scorer in the league and I have 3 players in the top 4 for average rating - Honda, Suarez and Skrtel. Daniel Sturridge also has the most assists in the league, with Mignolet tieing with Hart for most clean-sheets. All the same rules apply for getting the most out of the tactic (morale so important this version of FM) but this is one of only two tactics, maybe even the only one, where I've felt it's getting the best out of every position on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miiksern Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Looking forward to the modified version for the second season with Accrington, after a wonderful start we've gotten pretty much violently raped over the second half of the season. I guess it's to be expected with such a poor team. Scored the most goals in the league though so it's not all bad and still preforming way above expectations even though we're 10th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton14 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Great tactic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevemc Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 What corner set up do you have on this tactic, and how is it performing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPChenet Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Great tactic once familiar. Would recommend to anyone who is struggling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afailed10 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 loaded a new save with leeds and this tactic. Everything fluid and team gelld, pre season went fine. Moral was top notch. 4 official games 2 draws and 2 heavy defeats, all against weaker sides. 1 or 2 CCCs max created. My defense on terrible ratings. Feel like uninstalling this crap now. Even used the editor to remove all unhappiness and set moral to superb, next game - receive sheff wednesday at home and get battered 3 nil. **** sake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gioli1 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Slavia Prague story. Media prediction 8th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooner4life123 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Observation:Most goals are scored from the marked area this is the danger zone. So I think I've tightened up the defense with minimal impact going forward. You will see I trying offside trap too which seems to be working. There are fewer shots in danger zones but most importantly the pass to the defender on the outside of the DC seems to have stopped being a problem but more testing needed. On another note I've tested so many variations of changing things to create more of the same kind of opportunities we are seeing with regards chip crosses all unsuccessful at creating more of this typr of goal but some changes seemed to create a different kind of goal - anyway as yet unsuccessful. nice tactic mate! did you push the defence line up when you put on offside trap? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 nice tactic mate!did you push the defence line up when you put on offside trap? Actually yes I did actually - good spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelVPP Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Did you put up higher defensive line with the changes of the defenders to limited defenders? Or you just ticked off drop deeper so you use a normal defensive line? My experiences this tactic is one of the best around at the moment, defensive is a bit leaky but I have the idea with the changes of the defenders to limited defenders and tick on close down less and turn of tigther marking it improved abit. Only problem is matches for me in the BPL against top teams like Man City, United, Chelsea at home and away i get dominated and loose most matches Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 loaded a new save with leeds and this tactic. Everything fluid and team gelld, pre season went fine. Moral was top notch. 4 official games 2 draws and 2 heavy defeats, all against weaker sides. 1 or 2 CCCs max created. My defense on terrible ratings. Feel like uninstalling this crap now.Even used the editor to remove all unhappiness and set moral to superb, next game - receive sheff wednesday at home and get battered 3 nil. **** sake. Hey man please provide some more info - screenies of the opposition analysis such as crosses, passes from assist makers shots. And perhaps get in touch so we can chat and figure out what it is that we do differently. PM me if you like my skype name matches my forum name so feel free to add and we can put a constructive report together - becuase I'm damn certain the tactic punches well above its wieght consistently - this much is obvious to me but maybe there is something I do in my standard game that some don't? Anyway get in touch please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelVPP Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 If you got time maybe answer my question 2 posts up aswell mate If you want more feedback about this tactic and tips how to improve it you maybe should consider to make an topic about your tactic in fmbase aswell. Overall the tactic forum there is more active then over here, your tactic is mentioned there in an topic already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hey all I am going to enhance the early posts in this thread soon just gathering data - so will be up soon - will post results - and all the other info as to how I play it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Actually yes I did actually - good spot. Not sure pushing up worked though maybe a touch more creative but more vulnerable to far post crosses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDentalist Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 First game with this tactic was the second leg of the league cup, away from home after losing the first leg 2-1. I've been on a dreadful run of form and really expected nothing. Result? 6-0. Stats were pretty even but the thing I noticed was the number of shots on target and (unlike a lot of other tactics) not a lot of long range shots. Promising start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchymist Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 hehe. nice. I've been using Supreme myself with some succes. did you do a test against a more counter oriented type? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilmalm Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Steaton, any update regarding improving defence? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_123 Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 it took my hartlepool team from bottom of league 2 after 15 games to 5th now with a 16 game win streak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilmalm Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 it took my hartlepool team from bottom of league 2 after 15 games to 5th now with a 16 game win streak Was this with the defensive tweak? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Was this with the defensive tweak? Anyone trying the defensive tweak as stated in previous discussion will not do as well IMHO as I've abandoned that one - I have a tactic that get better results - the method I'm using is to set closing down on individuals and set standing off on team instructions then use DCs as they are - think I can show you some good reports tonight. I can definately give another version of the tactic that doesn't leak goal and scored reliably games win 2-0 or 3-0 consistently but no 6-0's and not as big advantage against teams that a far superior than yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 EDIT: V2 DIDNT WORK - NICE IDEA SEEMED TO WORK BUT NOW CONVINCED THIS VERSION ISNT GOOD ENOUGH RESULT: I have managed to improve this tactic and its now ready to publish. Here is a comparison using versus mode (though I don't build em using versus mode was built in my 1 player game). I use this just for demonstration and validation purposes. Downlaod link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/devgn2tk13pj5py/Steaton's_Invincible_4-2-3-1_v2.tac The changes include the following: 1. Full back are significantly different but the essence is that they are narrow and close down less, but still run wide with ball and are attacking FBs. This change is the key change as it means the key scoring zones are covered better defensively but also they are more attacking inlcuding gets forward, dribble more and shorter passing this creates havoc for the defence as on the attack they still come wide. 2. There is a change to the CM to make him defensive both MCs now also run wide with ball and both close down often. This helps to cover for the attacking full backs if they are caught on the counter - the run wide with ball also means the cover wider positions too. 3. In team instructions I am now using offside trap, have removed hassle opponents and have added play out of defence and play wider. Removing hassle opponents means that the DCs get pulled out of position a bit less and the MCs have close down often which compensates. Note: Sometimes the opposition will get quite a few shots but they don't get many from key scoring zones so their conversion rate is far lower - as shown in an earlier post. EDIT: V2 DIDNT WORK - NICE IDEA SEEMED TO WORK BUT NOW CONVINCED THIS VERSION ISNT GOOD ENOUGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilmalm Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 RESULT:I have managed to significantly improve this tactic and its now ready to publish. Here is a comparison using versus mode (though I don't build em using versus mode was built in my 1 player game). I use this just for demonstration and validation purposes. Downlaod link: http://www.mediafire.com/download/devgn2tk13pj5py/Steaton's_Invincible_4-2-3-1_v2.tac The changes include the following: 1. Full back are significantly different but the essence is that they are narrow and close down less, but still run wide with ball and are attacking FBs. This change is the key change as it means the key scoring zones are covered better defensively but also they are more attacking inlcuding gets forward, dribble more and shorter passing this creates havoc for the defence as in your own half on the attack they still come wide but as they near the opposition area they narrow and they narrow when defending too. 2. There is a change to the CM to make him defensive both MCs now also run wide with ball and both close down often. This helps to cover for the attacking full backs if they are caught on the counter - the run wide with ball also means the cover wider positions too. 3. In team instructions I am now using offside trap, have removed hassle opponents and have added play out of defence and play wider. Removing hassle opponents means that the DCs get pulled out of position a bit less and the MCs have close down often which compensates. Give it a try I think you will be impressed. Looks great Could it work on lower teams aswell you think? cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Anyone want to try a versus game using whatever tactic we decide and then do an analysis which we can post here (I have a lot of potential/promising improvements - in particular I think something more can be done with the inside forwards but havent nailed that yet - and I think the defence can still get caught out - it is a very attacking tactic though) - if so catch me on steam (steaton) or skype (steaton) - with voice would be ideal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_123 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Was this with the defensive tweak? not that i know of i just clicked the first link i came across Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldHolborn Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 2013/2014 http://s24.postimg.org/epf8p4gys/LFP_Primera_Divisi_n_1314.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasmuss Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 2013/2014http://s24.postimg.org/epf8p4gys/LFP_Primera_Divisi_n_1314.jpg Is that version 1 or 2? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Come on then Steaton, I've just added you on steam, let's see how your tactic stands up to mine. Great have accepted but dont seem to be able to msg you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Come on then Steaton, I've just added you on steam, let's see how your tactic stands up to mine. So a win to the Steaton's Invincible but 2 goals were from set pieces - still was fairly dominant all round (playing Barca 3 v 0 Real) - tactic from mack was new though and didnt have set pieces sorted. Will post some relevant screen shots of why it worked. Match stats for this game would be misleading showing too much advantage to invincibles tactic however it was a win and would be consistently i think - Barca had 6 shots in the danger zone (excluding set piecies) and Real had none but had some shots just outside it as shown below: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 RESULT:I have managed to improve this tactic and its now ready to publish. Here is a comparison using versus mode (though I don't build em using versus mode was built in my 1 player game). I use this just for demonstration and validation purposes. Right well I should give an update that whilst this new version is very good I'm starting to have my doubts on it's consistency. Please provide feedback - it is definately worth a tru but I have some alternatives that are great too but also not as consistent - so they can look much more convincing but they likely wont be getting you an invinclibles achievement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's not a bad idea having tactic uploaders facing off against each other. In the same way as mack4life challenged you, do you think you'd be prepared to take on some of the other uploaders to see how you get on? It would be a nice addition to this section of the forum if there was an uploaders league table for each patch and version of FM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's not a bad idea having tactic uploaders facing off against each other.In the same way as mack4life challenged you, do you think you'd be prepared to take on some of the other uploaders to see how you get on? It would be a nice addition to this section of the forum if there was an uploaders league table for each patch and version of FM. It will be difficult to beat this tactic though and I'm not just being 'big headed' - i've tried - and I'm not sure it proves all that much just to beat other human tactics - though with specialisation it can be done - a hint is that this one is weak against through balls to the outside of the DCs for instance - which is why v2 was created but now this is very weak against tactics that specialise in crosses (though that may just be my crappy defenders) - I still think we should do it and show the analysis for the benefit of the tactics forum. So I challenge someone to build a tactic that can beat it - and lets try it against others that have been successful even if they don't win head to head - and make a report - for the benefit of the forum - versus is very even except for one thing I dont think it uses PPMs but it is very repeatable and accurate - you are 100% familiar with tac have total morale and fitness. Note however what is difficult is to design a tactic that wins consistently (well with a high probability) against almost all tactics and isnt specialised - that is what I think the vanilla does better than anything I've seen so far - yes it leaks a goal but it still almost always seems to win - and its particularly good against team that have better players than you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 But what I'm really looking for is someone to go on skype (voice is easier as it is too much effort to document it all - and a second opinion would be handy) - we will test some tactics and help to improve create a report back for this forum - (been 6 or 7 years since I last bothered to do this - and well since I last had a tactic that I thought was better than any other by enough to be worthwhile). Any volunteers? For instance I have got a variant that makes use of fluid and counter in a tactic that can beat teams like beyern and barca with super creative agile dribblers - when you are simply outclassed - its based on taking no risks and making 130+ pass attempt at 90% completion between the mid and the defence players - then it scores a dirty set piece or an own goal - its not infallible but I tell you there was no other way I know of not to get obiterated with my team full of *****. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steaton Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 My god I can get carried away typing all this - funny - my excuse is that I play the game online way too much and its very competitive - in my current game season just finished I lost the league by 2 goal difference both of us on 104 points with Monaco (me) against PSG and i then lost champions league final against the AI. His team is a lot better in player calibur and this tactic had the consistency to only draw twice against AI all season but lost both league games head to head against him. And hat off to him he has beat me on the transfer market this time but I thought this tactic was enough to take it regardless - unfortunately over the seasons he has developed a defence against it to reduce but not eliminate the advange from the tactic. So help me make this tactic even better so I can destroy him please as he finally got his invincibles this season to my utter disgust Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagoLab Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Great tactics! Thank you so much body Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason bhoys Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Think you should update your OP mate with your new tweak, people may miss the new one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilmalm Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Steaton, is your tweaked version used both home/away? cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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