Rainmaker v2 and Silk & Steel v2.......... A Combined Arms approach to FM

[Gareth Winter]

Well, when i'm testing i only load up the english leagues........ i also get up early

Good point, i forgot i was running it with All leagues for England, Scotland, Spain, Italy, Germany, France and Holland with a Medium database

[GJHowell]

Assuming the 2nd half of the season doesn't blow up in my face and nothing crops up at home I'm aiming to get it up here tonight.

Excellent, just in time for me to get stuck into the task at Villa. Top work Uwe - Thanks very much.

[Marchw]

Just an update using the 'old' tactics on 14.3: took over a poor Leverkusen side after their manager got sacked 10 games in with them in the relegation zone. Lost two games all season from that point, taken them up to 4th in the league. Admittedly I still had a handful of top class players, but this is still an outrageously good performance. Silk and Steel seems almost unbeatable - at points in the season it was like watching the old Arsenal side of the 90s, I'd take a 1-0 lead and know the game was over! Having said that, my previous job was as West Brom (pre-patch) and I couldn't buy a win to save my life. But all in all, the 14.2 tactics are serving me EVEN BETTER with 14.3! Crazy.

[Andyh21]

Yes just to re-iterate these tactics only seem to have done me better in 14.3.

[madhatter75]

looking forward to V3 coming out, have already noticed it's harder to get results with V2 since the update, more with rainmaker

Agreed. I took Stockport to league 1 with S&S. Tried mixing up both tactics - when favourites rainmaker - drew 1 and lost 3. Reverted back to only using S&S and challenging for the League 1 title with 12 games to go.

[jasonboyacmilan]

Mr Rosler if you don't mind uploading or pm-ing me your current V3 tactic that would be great, i'd like to test it with my AC Milan side.

Meanwhile I'll try S&S V2, Rainmaker isn't working out very well for me.

[Mr U Rosler]

v3 should be up tonight as still marching on with Chelsea.

Its has elements of Silk & Steel so i'm hoping it will work with teams of all levels... we shall see.

[Bushy88]

v3 should be up tonight as still marching on with Chelsea.

Its has elements of Silk & Steel so i'm hoping it will work with teams of all levels... we shall see.

Lovely, been struggling through a load of other peoples tactics on FM Base but they are just conceding way too many. Looking forward to yours

[jasonboyacmilan]

v3 should be up tonight as still marching on with Chelsea.

Its has elements of Silk & Steel so i'm hoping it will work with teams of all levels... we shall see.

That's great, thanks. Can't wait, you're doing a wonderful job.

[dan99]

Looking forward to it. Used both the v2 with Blackburn, got promoted first season. So will use the new one in my quest to stay in the league!

[theboot]

Silk and Steel has been very impressive for me on the new patch. Two games played only granted but both very comfortable victories.

[Nottingham Forest_UK]

I'm not usually one for using tactics that have been created by other users and I usually try and create my own (sometimes good, most of the time pants! Lol). But having kept my eye on this thread for a while now I thought I'd bite the bullet and give it whirl based on latest patch 14.3. I have just completed my second season with Nottingham Forest in the premier league and using the Silk and Steel V2 tactic throughout I finished a very very very respectable 6th place. I have only signed a handful of players but in keeping with the requirements specified for each position (including John Guidetti for the bargain price of 900k and scored 29 goals in his first season) but I am playing some unbelievable football. Well done Mr U Rosler for creating such a fantastic tactic!

[MTM1977]

cleaning up

[gredawarha1979]

Was this designed with 14.3 in mind?

After some tweaking and testing, i have another candidate for people (like me) who sometimes want to mix it up and use player in the AMC position, instead of DM position.

This is closer to S&S than Rainmaker, but has some key differencies, especially in how the DL/DR play.

The AP also behaves differently than you have seen the CM(A) do in S&S.

This is the formation:

Mostly you can utilize same player types than in S&S/Rainmaker. The CM(D) should have DM kind of capabilities, ideal player is someone who can play both DM and MC.

AP should have some creativity and passing skills to start with.

DL/DR, they should know how to cross and pass, speed would be nice too. They sometimes make runs at goal, so if they can finish, that's a bonus.

If you want to try it, you can get it here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/k9lo3waqcfh7bzz/ControlAP_1.3.tac

If you do try it, all feedback is more than welcome. Would be nice to know how it works with different teams and leagues.

Feedback about what doesn't work would be most beneficial

[MTM1977]

cleaning up

[Malicious Penguin]

MTM1977: I've just tried it with Airbus in the Welsh Premier on FMC (so 100% fluidity from the start):

Won 2-0

Drew 1-1 at TNS (the only Pro team in Welsh Leagues)

Won 3-1

From watching it, the passing seems quick and efficient without being tiki-taka esque. I like it - a lot.

[gredawarha1979]

I shall give it a go then as I seem to be struggling big time since 14.3 came out. I've gone from being a top 4/champions league challenger in the Premier League to hovering above relegation zone.

Yes, i have worked on it after the patch came out and all my testing has been done with the latest patch.

Latest match gives indication that the tactic might be worth something.

My team (Vidar) is almost as bad as it was in 2nd division, as we couldn't get many good players after the promotion (no money, no reputation).

So, we are predicted to finish last, but still managed to do this:

[MTM1977]

cleaning up

[Malicious Penguin]

Glad to hear that!

I have also a counter version to be used against those bigger teams.

I haven't tested it much yet (not fluid enough, semi-pro is tough regarding that), but if you want to give it a try you can get it here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/wagzfe15ajajw25/CounterAP_1.2.tac

edit:

The point for me with these is not to replace Mr U Rosler's tactics on my own game.

I just want to have a working tactic with slightly different formation.

When you use these two formations in tandem, you start to get after match messages stating "fans hail tactical genius" etc. That's when you know it's working.

I believe you can have better results if you sometimes change the formation, even for one match.

I just came here to raise a point you've answered with a new tactic: I was 2-0 up away at HT and the opposition came back to draw 2-2. I was looking for an option to survive these late fightbacks which I imagine the counter tactic would do. I'll keep you updated!

[MTM1977]

I just came here to raise a point you've answered with a new tactic: I was 2-0 up away at HT and the opposition came back to draw 2-2. I was looking for an option to survive these late fightbacks which I imagine the counter tactic would do. I'll keep you updated!

I have used it as a "keep the lead" tactic and so far it has worked. However, i think it might need some work still, but i don't want to make any changes before i get it fluid.

edit:

I haven't tried FMC, so one question.

Are Player Instructions included in FMC tactics? In my tactics there are instructions to all player positions, some of them have minor effects, some more significant.

[Mr U Rosler]

https://www.mediafire.com/?ycqn9toe98fe9aw

Here is Rainmaker v3 - BETA

I consider it BETA as losing the FA Cup final to Man U and the Champions League final to Barcelona has caused me to doubt a couple of aspects of the tactic.

But perhaps i'm being a bit hard on myself as I got to both finals beating Bayern Munich home & away in the semi - finals of the Champions League.

I also absolutely demolished the Premier League winning by 17 points losing only twice, Man Utd and Arsenal away.

I also wouldn't call it a 'full release' until i've seen how it gets on with a smaller team and I will be starting my Norwich test tonight.

I know some of you are eager to try it and i am eager for some 2nd opinions so makes sense to put the tactic up here.

The Chelsea first team squad is actually quite small and short of genuine quality outside of the first 11, some of their best players are on loan for the season, Mata is a massive loss for me and whats left isnt ideally suited to this tactic but they are still a good team.

OK, the tactic

So what's changed

The Complete Forward is now a Shadow Striker (thanks Burnum for that one )

The Anchor Man is now a Regista

The Full Backs are now Complete Wingbacks/attack

We are employing a high line and prioritising ball retention yet maintaining a high tempo.

We are seeking to play as much of the match as possible inside the opponents half. We want multiple goals threats, expect good goals tally's for all 3 midfielders, Wingbacks and of course both Strikers.

I was nervous about being hit by balls over the top, I only conceded 20 goals in 38 league games so that is an excellent defensive record but you will be vulnerable against very quick strikers, Shane Long for example caused problems and scored against us but we won the game comfortably anyway. Point is, the benefits of employing a high defensive line far outweigh the negatives.

Requirements for new player roles.

Shadow Striker - FINISHING, Acceleration, Off the Ball, Composure

Regista - PASSING, Composure, Tackling, Positioning

Complete Wingbacks - CROSSING, Passing, Work rate, Acceleration

The Table

As mentioned earlier I may tweak before I'm fully happy with it but will let you know what i'm upto.

Let me know how you get on

[Vince75]

Thanks, testing it with Bromley in D5 after an awful start with V2 (20th place)

[MTM1977]

I will take it in to test with my Vidar team. That should be rubbish enough to see how this works with a really poor team

To give some indication, we are playing in Norwegian 1st division, but half of my squad are the same we had on 2nd division. And they weren't leading players even there.

The new additions are 1st division calibre, but on the decent/good level.

I have now played so that i have had my own Control+Counter tactics + Rainmaker v2 as tactics. I will now replace Rainmaker v2 and see what happens.

I will rotate the tactics depending on the opposition, i think it might be too daring to take this against the stronger teams (some of the teams in 1st division are professional, but we are still semi-pro).

[stg34tx]

Mr Rosler, just wanted to say thank you for all the time and effort you put in creating this and your other tactics. It really is appreciated!

[Mr U Rosler]

Mr Rosler, just wanted to say thank you for all the time and effort you put in creating this and your other tactics. It really is appreciated!

No Problemo

[gredawarha1979]

+1

Big thanks Mr Rosler, shall give it a go.

Mr Rosler, just wanted to say thank you for all the time and effort you put in creating this and your other tactics. It really is appreciated!

[IMFC]

Mr U Rosler,

Thanks for all the work !

Do you use OI and what's your match prep for this V3 ?

[Vince75]

Seems good for now, 2 wins in a row, including away at the 3rd team with more than 20 shots, great job it seems ! Thx a lot

[Cheesey1975]

about to give it a ggo with my semi pro side...wish me luck folks

[MTM1977]

Looking good and i think with this i can make the other formation better also

One question, did you consider Sweeper Keeper to help with the long balls?

[Mr U Rosler]

Mr U Rosler,

Thanks for all the work !

Do you use OI and what's your match prep for this V3 ?

No OI's

Match prep once fluid 'attacking movement' all season.

[Mr U Rosler]

Looking good and i think with this i can make the other formation better also

One question, did you consider Sweeper Keeper to help with the long balls?

Something i need to test as well as using off side trap which is currently not on the tactic.

[MTM1977]

Something i need to test as well as using off side trap which is currently not on the tactic.

Both could work together actually. Assuming team has fast enough CB's and keeper.

edit:

First match with RM v3, won away 1-4 (only goal conceded via long ball, striker through). Lots of scoring chances. I like it.

It also gave me inspiration for another formation, will have to try immediately

[Malicious Penguin]

I have used it as a "keep the lead" tactic and so far it has worked. However, i think it might need some work still, but i don't want to make any changes before i get it fluid.

edit:

I haven't tried FMC, so one question.

Are Player Instructions included in FMC tactics? In my tactics there are instructions to all player positions, some of them have minor effects, some more significant.

That could make it interesting then - no, they aren't. Does the counter have more instructions? I ask because it doesn't seem to work anywhere near the level of the control tactic.

[MTM1977]

That could make it interesting then - no, they aren't. Does the counter have more instructions? I ask because it doesn't seem to work anywhere near the level of the control tactic.

They have about the same amount of instructions on player level.

I have a feeling that at the moment the control tactic is much more ready than the counter. Might actually need a slightly different formation to work with counter.

Also, i think the counter tactic only works if the opponent actually tries to attack. if they are sitting back, it won't work.

[Malicious Penguin]

They have about the same amount of instructions on player level.

I have a feeling that at the moment the control tactic is much more ready than the counter. Might actually need a slightly different formation to work with counter.

Also, i think the counter tactic only works if the opponent actually tries to attack. if they are sitting back, it won't work.

The control worked well when I fell behind 3-1 (lost 4-3). My gut instinct would be to use the counter if you are massive underdogs - eg just got promoted and away to a team who got relegated/team a division or so higher. Control has seen me win games where I've been 6-1 and opponents 1-3.

[Mr U Rosler]

Interesting start to the Norwich test, Liverpool Away then Tottenham at home......... both taken care of.

[wanderer89]

Was going well for me in my Saints save, bar a loss to Sunderland, then I got smashed 4-0 by Fulham, wasn't expecting that at all. Few fines were handed out after that **** result. I say a few, just counted and it was 8, few of them accepted them, the rest now want to leave, hmm, should be fun to see if I can recover or my Saints days are numbered..

[t0rr3z]

I was Lens (((((

.

.

.

Jk, lol. I was Auxerre and, to be honest, was thoroughly surprised about this result. Tactic was about 60% fluid (was using S&S that was roughly 80% before) and was struggling to find a tactic up until now. So such a massive win was (at least back then) completely out of the window. Also, was 5-0 on half time and got a little complacent on 2nd half, mainly because I praised them instead of warning about dropping the bar (which I usually do).

Even though that was my first and (so far) only match, I was really excited and impressed.

Again, excellent work!

Cheers.

[MTM1977]

The control worked well when I fell behind 3-1 (lost 4-3). My gut instinct would be to use the counter if you are massive underdogs - eg just got promoted and away to a team who got relegated/team a division or so higher. Control has seen me win games where I've been 6-1 and opponents 1-3.

I think i will put the counter tactic on hold for now, it needs much work still.

Mr U Rosler's new tactic gave me some ideas i want to try now

[vitri0l]

Liking the new team instructions..i tried tweaking v2 using similar but i could never get the balance quite right and the defense suffered. Only thing i could point out is that with attack mentality overlaps will happen naturally especially with cwb,s so look for overlap may stall the attack somewhat. Gonna have a bash and will let you know how i fare.

[GeesusChrist]

Mr U Rosler, I just started using your tactic the day before the update, from then, I too did see a difference with the S and S seeming to be the superior tactic, And it is a very good tactic, serving my Guisley team quite well. I managed a 1-1 Draw in the FA cup v Torquay, this after a 3-0 win over Northampton. Now the question is: -

Is the Rainmaker V3 to be used in conjunction with the S and S or on its own? just about to play Torquay and I'm not the favourite so not sure how to approach the game?

Played a replay v Worcester away in the FA trophy with the V3 so far and I beat them 4-1 with Ben Parker (LB) scoring twice! One problem I have now is I only have 1 Striker that is Accomplished in AMC, I have a couple of CM that can also play AMC but they are my CM? nearly January so I can probably rectify this.

[WillyBroadband]

Hello Mr U Rosler,

This is the best tactic I've used on FM14 by miles man! So far, so incredibly good. Have made a few tweaks - mainly - the instruction of 'Stay on feet' and a couple of other bits.

PS - using Rainmaker v2 and S&S switching for home/away games.

[GeesusChrist]

I'll tell you what, Great tactic! Went with S and S and at H/T it was 0-0, 4 shots 0 CCCs to their 1 that wasn't on or off target, Changed to V3 second half, Ended up with 19 Shots 9 on target, 7 off and 6 CCC's to their 1 from the first half! Won 2-0, Only in my first season so I'm currently in the Skrill North division. 3rd Round We've got Villa, See how we fare, probably not very well but if we win, this must surely be the best tactic in the world! (slight exaggeration)

Another question is If someone gets sent off, Who would you replace? the shadow striker or middle CM? (these strike me as the obvious ones?)

[GJHowell]

You've done it again Mr Rosler - 3 games in with Villa, lost 1, won 2 (and the loss was one of those where we bombarded the opposing goal, whilst they score with pretty much their only attack).

But, even that loss wasn't too frustrating because of the quality of the football, which is just awesome. Top marks.

[tottenham2k7]

i appreciated youve said 'attacking movement' once tactic is fluid but what should the slider be at once fluid in terms of more or less match training? also the training before and after boxes? and what should general training be on?

sorry for the questions i just feel training is very important to a tactics success

[renz]

my game must be different to all yours because these tactics are hit and miss.... Im getting really good games and then some terrible ones where im out played, have more shots against me and im battered like 3-0.

Its to inconsistent in my opinion, my defence just get ran past like they arent even playing... any idea how i can change things ??

[Bushy88]

i appreciated youve said 'attacking movement' once tactic is fluid but what should the slider be at once fluid in terms of more or less match training? also the training before and after boxes? and what should general training be on?

sorry for the questions i just feel training is very important to a tactics success

See the very start of the thread, its all explained in there Tottenham.. If I remember right the slider was moved all the way back bar one

[tottenham2k7]

cheers bushy

[NCFC Gee]

Never got to go on last night so really looking forward to testing this with my Norwich team tonight, is this set up the same way as the last Rainmaker and S+S with regards as to when to use each tactic? or is this a use every game tactic now?