7Bestie7 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 There's a very real possibility that SAF has learnt his lesson over Rock of Gibraltar and has decided to swing the other way to keep himself from butting heads against any owners/major investors in the club to keep the peace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberg Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 As usual Ferguson is looking out for himself. Always has done. He could choose not to say anything or refuse to comment but instead he kisses arse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hursty2 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Since when has SAF confirmed transfer rumours, there's something going on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseboy64 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 TBF to Ferguson what he's said isn't untrue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 TBF to Ferguson what he's said isn't untrue. Ferguson is in no position to tell anyone what "real fans" are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldberg Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 TBF to Ferguson what he's said isn't untrue. I think you'll find the Glazers have never had the best financial interests of the club as their priority. They've only ever had their own financial interests prioritised. Kind of underlined by the fact they took over the club with borrowed money & then used the clubs profits to pay for it. Every time Ferguson comes out talking about them in a positive light it's another kick in the teeth to anybody who has ever spent money by whatever means supporting the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheps. Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Since when has SAF confirmed transfer rumours, there's something going on here. Yeh I don't think I can ever remember Ferguson openly coming out and saying 'we are interested in.../we have tabled a bid for...' ever, I may be wrong though, maybe he actually does it every summer and I just forget Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I think you'll find the Glazers have never had the best financial interests of the club as their priority. They've only ever had their own financial interests prioritised. Kind of underlined by the fact they took over the club with borrowed money & then used the clubs profits to pay for it.. That's a standard American business model and has nothing to do with not having the best interests in the club/company at heart. In fact doing it that way forces the new owners to find as many ways as possible to make the company profitable so that the loan can be repaid. And, as much as I dislike the model, it makes perfect sense for a company like United who has continued to grow and develop it's finances. The only issue with this model when it comes to United is that the interest repayments is far too high in regards to allow for a continuous spending/rebuilding of the squad with high-priced players with the allowance for a lean spell of seasons. If the loan repayment was £40m instead of £70m then United would have had two or three times the Ronaldo money left over from the accounts to spend as needed. "Taking money out of a club" is a fans' emotional reaction to using business models in the world of football. "Getting screwed by the repayment schedule" is a perfectly valid issue United fans should have with the ownership deal itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 "developing it's finances" is short hand for taking more money from it's supporters yes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 I couldn't give a toss whether he speaks out about the Glazers or not, I'd rather he just not speak out on their behalf and criticise the people who don't agree with their ownership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 "developing it's finances" is short hand for taking more money from it's supporters yes? Actually no. It's what they have been doing and growing United's sponsership/partnership deals to bring in more revenue. ..I'd rather he just not speak out on their behalf and criticise the people who don't agree with their ownership. And in this I completely agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 He is employed by them, maybe he's buttering them up so he can get more money...But seriously, what is it with confirming interest in attacking players? How many of Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Nani, Young, Valencia, Van Persie, Moura can play in one game? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Valencia RWB, Nani RW, Young LW, Rooney CM, Van Persie/Kagawa in the hole behind Hernandez and Welbeck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahno6 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 He is employed by them, maybe he's buttering them up so he can get more money...But seriously, what is it with confirming interest in attacking players? How many of Rooney, Welbeck, Hernandez, Nani, Young, Valencia, Van Persie, Moura can play in one game? Well it's not about how many we play at once. I think it's more helpful in games such at Blackburn last year where we didn't have Rooney, Nani, Young etc. I know our defense was weak that day, but do we lose if we had a Lucas, a RVP, a Kagawa etc? Just allows us to rotate more without significantly weakening our side. Play Rooney, Welbeck, Nani, Valencia one week, and then Hernandez, Kagawa, Lucas, Young etc. Strength in depth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Exactly my point - if Carrick was so good in previous seasons and so high in SAF estimations then he would have played him straight away whatever the form of the others - he does this with Vidic/Ferdinand/Rooney - our obvious first choicers. Rooney has been dropped before and Ferdinand has struggled to get into the starting eleven at times. Vidic has not had a prolonged spell of injury or poor form sufficient for him to be replaced to then need to fight his spot back. Might be an interesting case study if he misses the start of the season and someone starts strongly in his place. Though central midfield partnerships are a completely different beast of course. The strength of that side is your opinion not a fact Oh please - unlike everything else in this discussion, or most of this thread? Who would you have started then? It's quite clearly as strong a side as Ferguson had available, the only contentious positions were the right back merry-go-round and Welbeck over Berbatov, which was borne out across the remainder of the season. I didn't say he was unfit, in fact the opposite. I know. I said he was unfit. Because he was. Was 'ruled out' of the game beforehand iirc, only lasted 45 minutes was out for a bit afterwards. Yet he still started in a full strength side. Well it's not about how many we play at once. I think it's more helpful in games such at Blackburn last year where we didn't have Rooney, Nani, Young etc. I know our defense was weak that day, but do we lose if we had a Lucas, a RVP, a Kagawa etc? Just allows us to rotate more without significantly weakening our side. Play Rooney, Welbeck, Nani, Valencia one week, and then Hernandez, Kagawa, Lucas, Young etc. Strength in depth. Really? You think the problem against Blackburn was that we needed another attacking player to throw in with Park, Nani, Valencia, Berbatov, Hernandez and Welbeck; rather than having a single central midfielder to have in there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahno6 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Really? You think the problem against Blackburn was that we needed another attacking player to throw in with Park, Nani, Valencia, Berbatov, Hernandez and Welbeck; rather than having a single central midfielder to have in there? I couldn't think of a specific example where we've struggled without the likes of Rooney to be honest, maybe the 0-0 against Blackburn a few years ago was a better example. I do agree that a CM should be our number 1 priority over any attacking players though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I couldn't think of a specific example where we've struggled without the likes of Rooney to be honest, maybe the 0-0 against Blackburn a few years ago was a better example. I do agree that a CM should be our number 1 priority over any attacking players though. The Blackburn game should be a one-off really. As well as Rooney being out (and over relied on all season), it was the one time we could have really used Owen, except he was injured. So we were left with Berba and a woefully inexperienced Macheda who spent the game as Nelson's shadow. Just a quick point about Lucas that you may or may not know(haven't seen it mentioned). He has a clause in his deal that means on August 1st and thereafter he gets 30% of any transfer fee rather than the current 20% now. So basically I would imagine the sane thing for Sao Paulo to do would be to sell before then or not at all. Me and Icey mentioned it in passing during our tête-à-tête a couple of pages back. My contention is that Sao Paulo's seem to have a pretty relaxed attitude as to whether he stays or goes and a number of suitors, so it's in our interest, rather than theirs, to get the deal done quicksmart or they'll just add it back on top. Sod the midfield, sign him up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseboy64 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Ferguson is in no position to tell anyone what "real fans" are. I think you'll find the Glazers have never had the best financial interests of the club as their priority. They've only ever had their own financial interests prioritised. Kind of underlined by the fact they took over the club with borrowed money & then used the clubs profits to pay for it.Every time Ferguson comes out talking about them in a positive light it's another kick in the teeth to anybody who has ever spent money by whatever means supporting the club. I think he was simply criticizing people who are idiots. We've been successful under the tenure of the Glazers and the debt has not affected how we've performed on the pitch. The not signing a CM thing is completely SAF. We've spent a lot of money comparatively since they've been here. Us not signing a CM isn't dictated by them. Clearly Fergie doesn't feel he needs one or whoever is out there isn't worth it. His hatred of agents is one of the reasons I feel. Simply, the Glazers have left the football side of things to him. He's in complete power whereas under the PLC he was limited somewhat by having to wrangle with the board. With the Glazers we seemingly have no such thing. The only restriction seems to be the <50% of turnover which was here before them. Don't want to defend them but people will trot out any rubbish due to their bias against them and relate that to what we do in the market. Glazers bad but Fergie not signing anybody big is his own thing. So I see it from what's been on said on both sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahno6 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 PMLF just said this on twitter. 'Lance!' now reporting that #MUFC will make a final offer of €40m for L.Moura & offer him a 5-year contract. They think SPFC may accept it. That's round £31 million I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseboy64 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 That's a standard American business model and has nothing to do with not having the best interests in the club/company at heart. In fact doing it that way forces the new owners to find as many ways as possible to make the company profitable so that the loan can be repaid. And, as much as I dislike the model, it makes perfect sense for a company like United who has continued to grow and develop it's finances.The only issue with this model when it comes to United is that the interest repayments is far too high in regards to allow for a continuous spending/rebuilding of the squad with high-priced players with the allowance for a lean spell of seasons. If the loan repayment was £40m instead of £70m then United would have had two or three times the Ronaldo money left over from the accounts to spend as needed. "Taking money out of a club" is a fans' emotional reaction to using business models in the world of football. "Getting screwed by the repayment schedule" is a perfectly valid issue United fans should have with the ownership deal itself. Agree here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Just a quick point about Lucas that you may or may not know(haven't seen it mentioned). He has a clause in his deal that means on August 1st and thereafter he gets 30% of any transfer fee rather than the current 20% now. So basically I would imagine the sane thing for Sao Paulo to do would be to sell before then or not at all. Yes, the only other option is Lucas Moura's giving up of his % as was suggested too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal_guitarist Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Josh Harrop tearing up the Milk Cup game on his own there, 4 goals Had a great cameo against Swansea last year, very technically gifted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Don't want to defend them but people will trot out any rubbish due to their bias against them and relate that to what we do in the market. Glazers bad but Fergie not signing anybody big is his own thing. So I see it from what's been on said on both sides. Absolutely. United signed Young instead of a £17m central midfielder last season and has spent whatever it is this year without bringing someone in. It is now all on SAF to sort out the central midfield position and nothing to do with the Glazers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 What top class central midfielder was available for £17m and the wages Young's on last summer then? Ignoring that Young was in the final year of his contract and isn't a guaranteed starter in our strongest 11 ofc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseboy64 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 According to some Nuri Sahin and Vidal who went to Juventus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 What top class central midfielder was available for £17m and the wages Young's on last summer then? Ignoring that Young was in the final year of his contract and isn't a guaranteed starter in our strongest 11 ofc. Well if Martinez was available I'm sure an extra £xm could have been added to the £17m. I deliberately didn't actually say "top class". I have nothing against bringing in squad/potential talent for the midfield like we did with Smalling, Jones, Hernandez, Ronaldo, Nani and the others who have succeeded/failed. The issue is the lack of a talented and consistent midfielder to play with or cover for Carrick. I was simply pointing out that the money spent on Young et al has been a concious decision to work on those areas of the team rather than the CM position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 According to some Nuri Sahin and Vidal who went to Juventus. We don't tend to fare well when competing with Real for players, even when they're our players. Vidal fair enough; not seen enough of him to comment on his (suit)ability. Well if Martinez was available I'm sure an extra £xm could have been added to the £17m.I deliberately didn't actually say "top class". I have nothing against bringing in squad/potential talent for the midfield like we did with Smalling, Jones, Hernandez, Ronaldo, Nani and the others who have succeeded/failed. The issue is the lack of a talented and consistent midfielder to play with or cover for Carrick. I was simply pointing out that the money spent on Young et al has been a concious decision to work on those areas of the team rather than the CM position. We had Pogba, Morrison, Tunnicliffe, Cleverley and Anderson as squad/potential last summer, and half of those (I'm counting Tunnerz as a half now) plus Powell left now. We need someone who can walk in and hold their own to take pressure off Carrick, and a further body to cover him. Anything less is a massive gamble in both central midfield roles as discussed previously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseboy64 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 We seemed to be trying to get Nasri and/or Sneijder anyway just like Kagawa, Hazard and Moura this season. If we whack out 31mil on Moura it's clear he doesn't see CM as an issue. All of those players play in similar positions. CM is no rush to Fergie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Vidic has not had a prolonged spell of injury or poor form sufficient for him to be replaced to then need to fight his spot back. Might be an interesting case study if he misses the start of the season and someone starts strongly in his place. Evans didn't do badly last season in Vidic's place, but I'm sure he'll make way as soon as Vidic is match fit. Rooney has been dropped occasionally but it tends to be for 'mentally unfit' reasons and he's soon back. Maybe Carrick will play a full hand of games now and I'll be glad if he plays like last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Wouldn't be surprised to see Evans start to be preferred to Ferdinand this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 I think by the end of the season you may be right, but we'll start with Rio and Vidic (if fit). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Oh yeah, they'll be the starting picks once Vida's back fighting fit, but certainly Ferguson seems to be doubting how much longer he can go on for, so Evans needs phasing in sooner rather than later, particularly after his great knock last term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGartz Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Just got MUTV. It's a bit crap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren24 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I subscribed yesterday, and watched Ronaldo all the goals earlier. I miss him dearly What day does Fergie usually do his weekly interview? As I'll have to be getting that on record, although I couldn't see anything on the planner, but this is most likely due to the tour right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Phish Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 friday innit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Glazerite scum. Fergie's presser is usually 9am Friday, though he started to muck about with it towards the end of last season a bit iirc. Seems like there's two conferences a day at the mo with the tour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheps. Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Josh Harrop tearing up the Milk Cup game on his own there, 4 goals Had a great cameo against Swansea last year, very technically gifted. Attacking midfielder no? That Swansea game, I remember him coming on and being a bit taken back by how good he was with the ball at his feet. Is there anywhere to watch the highlights? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPS Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Is there anywhere to watch the highlights? BBC NI are usually pretty good with highlights for the Milk Cup, seems a bit slow this year. In the meantime you've always got the opening ceremony [disclaimer: Coleraine is not usually like this]: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 They've just got the finals live this year I think, plus some highlights on the website. Remember two years ago when most of United's games were live on the red button Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bren24 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I wonder who Fergie will declare interest in today?! btw: Lucas Moura's agent Wagner Ribeiro says any move to Manchester United is off as they will not up their bid for the Brazilian ace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 £26m is more than enough, certainly wouldn't want to be paying £31m if that is what they're asking. Might motivate him to, you know, strengthen central midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillsminnow Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Might aswell whore information off you lot too. Your starting 11 for next season please? x Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Honestly... with Kagawa being signed and potentially someone else to come in? God knows. My best guess. ----------DDG rb--Ferdinand--Vidic--Evra --------Carrick----------- some more midfielders and attackers --------Rooney----------- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillsminnow Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Will Kagawa be a starter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hursty2 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'd go with; ----------DDG---------- Raf-----Rio--Vidic----Evra ------------------------- AV----Carrick---Signing--Nani -------------Kagawa------ -------Rooney------------ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hursty2 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 But then again, I see Welbeck starting with Rooney and Kagawa out or next to Carrick (hopefully not). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert the Spud Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 How likely do you guys think it is that SAF will bring in a CM to play against Carrick? Someone like Tiote etc.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Carrick will be a starter regardless of who we sign, we wont get Tiote though, he's too limited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert the Spud Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Sorry, i meant alongside Carrick. I just wondered, what with all these attacking players if he'd want to go for a CM with ball winning capabilities and how that'd fit into your system. What would you consider a realistic CM acquisition out of interest, if not Tiote? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 If we were willing to pay 26 million then 5 million more for someone we supposedly want isn't that much of a stretch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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