Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[montymastiff]

The regista is wasted and doesn't function correctly in a 2 man DMC tactic because he relies on space and drifts side to side as well as pushing up and he can't do this with another DMC in the side properly.

Ah, ok! Thank you, Cleon. BTW, love your football magazine at ccc... This and the last edition has inspired me to try a lot of new things.

[allyc31]

The regista is wasted and doesn't function correctly in a 2 man DMC tactic because he relies on space and drifts side to side as well as pushing up and he can't do this with another DMC in the side properly.

Hmmmm I did not know this!

Cleon, I'm trying to recreate a Borussia Dortmund tactic and, for the two midfielders in the dm positions I went with Regista and DMC. The reason for this was one of the def mid is a player who is a dynamic passer as well as good defensively while the other is simply a defensive player.

Can a BWM on support (played in the dm position) offer the kind of passing I'm striving for? Or would a deep lying playmaker be better?

[allyc31]

Any mentality will counter with the right setup, but in the cavalier "Counter" in the FM sense, it is limited to the Counter, Defensive and Overload Mentalities.

I originally assumed it was just Counter, but wwfan added the other two into the mix.

You can still achieve counter-esque play with the right combination of Team Instructions irrespective of Mentality.

Thanks for the reply RT.

So, any thoughts on what would be the best way to create a high pressuring counter? With the info you provided, I think Standard would probably be the best base and then add team instructions to achieve what I want?

Any tips on the right shouts? Higher tempo, hassle, narrow and get stuck in comes to mind when I think about how To translate how Dortmund play.

It's just a shame we can't just tick counter anymore.

[Cleon]

Hmmmm I did not know this!

Cleon, I'm trying to recreate a Borussia Dortmund tactic and, for the two midfielders in the dm positions I went with Regista and DMC. The reason for this was one of the def mid is a player who is a dynamic passer as well as good defensively while the other is simply a defensive player.

Can a BWM on support (played in the dm position) offer the kind of passing I'm striving for? Or would a deep lying playmaker be better?

A regista isn't really an holding player despite being in the DMC position. They are far too aggressive going forward to be a reliable holding player. They are more attack minded than some people actually realise.

A BWM is also aggressive but this time he's more aggressive from a defensive stand point with his high closing down and hassling people. If you want good defensive cover and someone who can pass then why not use a DLP?

[allyc31]

A regista isn't really an holding player despite being in the DMC position. They are far too aggressive going forward to be a reliable holding player. They are more attack minded than some people actually realise.

A BWM is also aggressive but this time he's more aggressive from a defensive stand point with his high closing down and hassling people. If you want good defensive cover and someone who can pass then why not use a DLP?

I think DLP is the way to go.

I went with Regista as someone on here described the position as something akin to a box to box player but starting in the dm position.

And, reading up what Sahin did for Dortmund, this seemed to be the best fit i.e. someone who can pass the ball, is a creative outlet and chases the ball all over the pitch.

[RTHerringbone]

Thanks for the reply RT.

So, any thoughts on what would be the best way to create a high pressuring counter?

A high pressing counter is a contradiction in itself.

You either want to sit deep to lure the AI forward to create space to attack, or you want to smother the AI to prevent them from playing, by operating up high and pressing hard.

Something has to give.

[allyc31]

A high pressing counter is a contradiction in itself.

You either want to sit deep to lure the AI forward to create space to attack, or you want to smother the AI to prevent them from playing, by operating up high and pressing hard.

Something has to give.

How would you describe counterpressing/gegen then RT?

I could be wrong, but my interpretation of it was your players play with a high line, pressuring the op all over the pitch with the idea being to win the ball back as high up as possible and launch counter attacks.

[RTHerringbone]

How would you describe counterpressing/gegen then RT?

I could be wrong, but my interpretation of it was your players play with a high line, pressuring the op all over the pitch with the idea being to win the ball back as high up as possible and launch counter attacks.

Correct, and that is not counter attacking at all - counter is about luring and exploiting, but Dortmund are more of an in your face direct, high pressing team.

Here's a good article: http://www.footballradar.co.uk/blog/2013/11/compelling-club-compelling-tactics-borussia-dortmund-and-the-importance-of-marco-reus/

[allyc31]

Correct, and that is not counter attacking at all - counter is about luring and exploiting, but Dortmund are more of an in your face direct, high pressing team.

Here's a good article: http://www.footballradar.co.uk/blog/2013/11/compelling-club-compelling-tactics-borussia-dortmund-and-the-importance-of-marco-reus/

Thanks for the link!

And the advice

Ally

[petergoddard]

Considering that PI overrule TI and that OI overrule PI, does positional OI overrule player OI ???

[RTHerringbone]

Considering that PI overrule TI and that OI overrule PI, does positional OI overrule player OI ???

Have you got a specific example in mind?

[Cleon]

Positional OI's are the same thing as OI's. But if you use positional ones then you instruct every single player in that position to use those settings. So in short yes.

[Pantelas]

quick questions about staff roles:

- Using Massimo Neri as an example, in the Staff Roles bar, it only says "Fitness coach". He has accepted a contract (with substantially better wage) to be a normal coach. How can this work? I haven't yet to confirm his signing.

- related to the above question, i never noticed, do the blue bars in the "staff roles" tab ever develop? If I have a scout as a coach whose "coach role" bar is not full, will it develop in time? I hope my question is clear.

[glyndav]

"The regista is wasted and doesn't function correctly in a 2 man DMC tactic because he relies on space and drifts side to side as well as pushing up and he can't do this with another DMC in the side properly."

I've been trying to replicate Pellegrinis City on a different thread and the main positions I have struggled with is getting the midfielders acting correctly and replicating the behaviour of the interiores. As I've pushed the wingers up to AMR/AML, I thought it would work better with fernandinho as a dm next to Toure as a regista. Hasn't worked very well though, so that makes sense to me!

Back to the drawing board again!

[Cleon]

quick questions about staff roles:

- Using Massimo Neri as an example, in the Staff Roles bar, it only says "Fitness coach". He has accepted a contract (with substantially better wage) to be a normal coach. How can this work? I haven't yet to confirm his signing.

- related to the above question, i never noticed, do the blue bars in the "staff roles" tab ever develop? If I have a scout as a coach whose "coach role" bar is not full, will it develop in time? I hope my question is clear.

It indicates his best role or the role he prefers to hold. That doesn't mean its the only role he will accept though but you normally have to pay them slightly more for an unfavoured role.

[Pantelas]

It indicates his best role or the role he prefers to hold. That doesn't mean its the only role he will accept though but you normally have to pay them slightly more for an unfavoured role.

Thanks for the fast reply Cleon, big admirer of you here. Your reply pretty much is the big question here: Is it his best role or the role he prefers? If it's the first one, then surely if I appoint a fitness coach who has great attributes to be a tactics coach, then the 5* in tactics that is shown in my training tab is not really a 5*?

[petergoddard]

Positional OI's are the same thing as OI's. But if you use positional ones then you instruct every single player in that position to use those settings. So in short yes.

Thanks

[cainite]

i'm sorry i dont't know if this is the right place to ask this but concerning "dribbling past the keeper", does it ever happen?i'm asking because i've never seen it happen players always favour shooting even when they have the pace and the space to get nearer to the post even with the right PPM?is this a tactical thing?

[PhroX]

Does the PPM "runs with ball down xx flank" (or whatever the exact wording is, I'm nto at my FM computer atm) have any impact if a player isn't playing on that side? I've currently got a player who has the right side version of that PPM, but can play in either ML or MR and I'm planning on using him mainly for the former.

[RTHerringbone]

Does the PPM "runs with ball down xx flank" (or whatever the exact wording is, I'm nto at my FM computer atm) have any impact if a player isn't playing on that side? I've currently got a player who has the right side version of that PPM, but can play in either ML or MR and I'm planning on using him mainly for the former.

Good question! It shouldn't have an impact because the PPM should only get triggered when certain match conditions are "right".

As one of those conditions will certainly be his proximity to the right flank, if he is on the left you shouldn't see any weird changing of flank behaviour.

[Cleon]

Good question! It shouldn't have an impact because the PPM should only get triggered when certain match conditions are "right".

As one of those conditions will certainly be his proximity to the right flank, if he is on the left you shouldn't see any weird changing of flank behaviour.

Yeah this.

Although if you break from your own half and the player is central, then you might see him prefer to take the side he prefers rather than his natural position. But this is only likely on quick counters.

[kstoyle]

Has anyone else tried a 4222 box formation? I am having mssive success with it? I have seem it mentioned in a few threads but no-one seems to have done much recent analysis on it. I have won 10/12 using it.

[jujigatame]

Has anyone else tried a 4222 box formation? I am having mssive success with it? I have seem it mentioned in a few threads but no-one seems to have done much recent analysis on it. I have won 10/12 using it.

What is that? 2 DM, 2 CM, 2 ST?

[kstoyle]

Yeah. Seems to work for me. Can post a screenie if you like?

It came about by accident as my wingers were all injured so tried it and not looked back. Still a few minor issues, conceding too many from crosses due to lack of numbers out wide, so am tinkering with roles to see if that helps.

[allyc31]

Stupid question here...

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Does the circle in the above image indicate that the opp is dangerous down their right side or their left side?

I'm assuming it's their right side but would like to know for sure.

Ta

[Cleon]

That's your assists from your left side if you was using your assist screen. So if its the opposition page you are looking at its their for the left side.

If you're struggling to understand how to read them, then read this;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/322668-Scout-and-Team-reports-and-how-I-use-them.

[allyc31]

It was their goals on the scouting report?

Right, so it's not inverted then? In the above the they created 9 down the right hand side and conceded 4, down the left they created and conceded 6.

Magic.

Thanks for the quick reply

[petergoddard]

TI Look for overlaps instructs players to hold the ball, so wouldn't it make sense for W / IF have the hold the ball PI active by default when setting the TI ????

[Cleon]

TI Look for overlaps instructs players to hold the ball, so wouldn't it make sense for W / IF have the hold the ball PI active by default when setting the TI ????

It only works on people in the ML/MR positions because the AML/AMR positions are far too high to create overlaps. Plus the role of the IF isn't to hold up the ball it wouldn't make sense to use IF's and have them hold up the ball you'd select wide targetman for that.

[petergoddard]

It only works on people in the ML/MR positions because the AML/AMR positions are far too high to create overlaps. Plus the role of the IF isn't to hold up the ball it wouldn't make sense to use IF's and have them hold up the ball you'd select wide targetman for that.

Thanks :-)

In that case I have to ask, wouldn't it make sense to have the hold the ball PI disable for the IF's like other options are ???

[RobertoNUFC]

In the tactic i am developing my lone striker (CF-S) gets offside far too often. Any ways of toning this down through player instructions, role or PPM's? Alternatively are their good/bad attributes to look out for?

[m83]

Stupid question....

Im having some dificulties to indertand what are the effects of the type of passing (direct/short) and if by chossing one of them it has the same effect as in others fm versions.

For example, in any type of strategy, when one used "short passing" it would affect tempo and widht (reduce it) and shorten the passing lenght of the players.

Another questuion his that if, for example, if one wanted to use the "retain possesion", in olders versions, it could be used at the same time as a team instructions wiht play direct passes, so one could have it set on the TI´s and use that schout to "shut up shop", to maintain a narrow lead or to frustrate oposition.

I have to say tha it has been, for me, a little more complicated to understand the overall efects of the TI´s and how to use them in conjunctions.

Sorry for the poor englisch,

Thanks in advance.

[RBYRVI]

is IF/a/s cut inside less in 14.2.2 than fm 13? im playing as ROMA with florenzi and gervinho as IF, i rarely see both cutting inside (even with cut inside PPM's), to exploit space totti (TQ/F9) create. and FB's dont overlap cos the IF still in wide position, Playing 451/433 i couldn't risk playing WB's they leave TOO MUCH space (i learn the hard way) but the IF is cutting inside more often with WB...

is it a bug? or that's just the way it is...

many thanks!

[allyc31]

pals,

the player instruction Stay Wide, will that conflict with and Inside Forwards decision to cut inside?

I want to play with a lot of width an i was thinking about giving this instruction to my Inside Forward in an effort to make sure he receives the ball out wide then attacks the space in between the full back and defender.

Ta

[m83]

i am no expert, but the "stay wide" instruction" tells your player to stay wide without the ball, but when in possession of the ball i think he will still cut inside.

So "stay wide" is whitout the ball and "cut inside" his whit the ball.

Two diferent things, i think....

It wher you want your player to be whitout the ball.

[allyc31]

That's my thinking to M83.

Thanks

On a side note, i really liked your last album.

[Zigster]

Is there any point having, for instance, an "Attacking" mentality and then "Higher Tempo" + "More Direct passing" Team Instructions? Does it stack, or is it redundant?

[allyc31]

I would think it would stack to Overload levels.

[Zigster]

So what if you have Overload + Much Higher Tempo? Double overload? Or are mentalities just shout bundles?

[m83]

I have read "The Clear Cut Chances" - 2.º Edition, magazine, and there is an article about "Quick Transitions" where the Autor as an Attacking Strategy and more direct plus much higer tempo, so....

Thats also one of my doubts, because in the older versions of fm if one add more direct it would increase the lengt of the passes plus the tempo and the widht, know with the new systems i dont know if direct means only the passes or if it also changes the tempo and the widht....

I also think that it not alters the mentality of the players, it will stay within the framework of the attacking strategy...and so, it as note the same "values" as the Overload Strategy, cause it doesn t affect the defensive line...only changes the tempo and "maybe" the Width of the team

Maybe if someone whit another kind of knowlegde could answer that...

Thanks

[Zigster]

The idea I have, is that for instance "tempo", is one of the old sliders, with five notches... "Much Slower .... Slower .... Standard ... Higher ... Much Higher", and now they're just shout buttons instead of sliders. So, "attacking" puts the slider at "higher tempo", and then the shout also puts it at "higher tempo" and so nothing changes. Or are mentalities something completely different to Team Instructions?

[Cleon]

I have read "The Clear Cut Chances" - 2.º Edition, magazine, and there is an article about "Quick Transitions" where the Autor as an Attacking Strategy and more direct plus much higer tempo, so....

Thats also one of my doubts, because in the older versions of fm if one add more direct it would increase the lengt of the passes plus the tempo and the widht, know with the new systems i dont know if direct means only the passes or if it also changes the tempo and the widht....

I also think that it not alters the mentality of the players, it will stay within the framework of the attacking strategy...and so, it as note the same "values" as the Overload Strategy, cause it doesn t affect the defensive line...only changes the tempo and "maybe" the Width of the team

Maybe if someone whit another kind of knowlegde could answer that...

Thanks

Adding direct passing as never increased tempo or width.

[m83]

Hi, Cleon, its nice that you could answer some questions...

Sorry, but i still have the Fm2012 game in my P.C. and I have use it to see the effects of the TI´s instructions in the strategy framworks, nad i have to disagree whit you...

If you chosse "more direct", it would increase your passing lengt of the players and also the width and tempo of the team...

But maybe its only my version of the fm 2012...

[m83]

And same way if you choose "shorter passing" it would decrease the passing lenght and the widht and tempo....

[Cleon]

Nope changing the actual strategy changes the things you mention but changing just passing etc to more direct does not alter width and tempo.

Passing doesn't really have anything to do with width anyway.

[Taleron]

What are the downsides to setting PIs to man-mark the opposition FBs with AMR/AMLs, if I'm using a 4-2-3-1? The obvious one to me is that you compromise your shape and your offensive ability by doing this, putting your AMR/AMLs out of position when you actually get the ball back. Is that an overblown concern on my part?

[m83]

Ok, i dont wont to start a discussion or be rude, i will check it out again in FM 2012 whit the sliders.

Sorry if i caused any problem.

[m83]

So, im back at home and uploaded my fm 2012 game, and just as i have said, in the olders version, at least in fm 2012, one could choose the "General Strategies"(Philosophy and Strategy), the "Playing Style" (Passing, Creative Freedom, Closing Down, Tacling, Marking, Crossing and Roaming) and then there was the "Specific Instructions" (Defensive Line, Widht, Tempo, Time Wasting, Focus Passing, Counter attack and Play Offside) that one could choose and see the effect of the choices that we would make in the others that i have mentionned.

For example, in a counter strategy set to default in the "Playing Style", we would have a Defensive Line - Deep (6 notches), a Widht - Narrow (6 notches) and Tempo - Slow (6 notches) and a Time Wasting - Sometimes (12 notches).

And if we choose a passing style "Shorter" this would set the WIDHT and TEMPO to 4 notsches each, as also shortening the passing lenght of the players.

Know i hope im not making any problems here or confusing anybody, but i just wanted to know if the same logic applies in the Fottball Manager 2014, if the option of the passing length will also affect other settings like tempo and widht.

Thanks in advance.

[Rasmus]

Han anyone succeeded to make an Inside Forward your main scoring threat? Like getting 25-30 goals in a season? And if so, how did you do it? I am playing a 4231 formation, but I don't really know if it's really suited to field an inside forward. He just doesn't seem to run into the hole the DLF should create for him, and the APM/TREQ seems to be the one who runs in behind him, or are more willing to find my Winger on the right for a goal opportunity.

When my inside forward has the ball and runs towards goal with his great dribbling skills and good finishing, he is normally just tackled of the field, runs to the corner for a cross or just take a weak shot. What can be done to "fix" this?

[Dr. Hook]

So, im back at home and uploaded my fm 2012 game, and just as i have said, in the olders version, at least in fm 2012, one could choose the "General Strategies"(Philosophy and Strategy), the "Playing Style" (Passing, Creative Freedom, Closing Down, Tacling, Marking, Crossing and Roaming) and then there was the "Specific Instructions" (Defensive Line, Widht, Tempo, Time Wasting, Focus Passing, Counter attack and Play Offside) that one could choose and see the effect of the choices that we would make in the others that i have mentionned.

For example, in a counter strategy set to default in the "Playing Style", we would have a Defensive Line - Deep (6 notches), a Widht - Narrow (6 notches) and Tempo - Slow (6 notches) and a Time Wasting - Sometimes (12 notches).

And if we choose a passing style "Shorter" this would set the WIDHT and TEMPO to 4 notsches each, as also shortening the passing lenght of the players.

Know i hope im not making any problems here or confusing anybody, but i just wanted to know if the same logic applies in the Fottball Manager 2014, if the option of the passing length will also affect other settings like tempo and widht.

Thanks in advance.

I think the confusion here is that if you just change passing length (in FM 12 the slider setting) it won'tmove width or tempo. In the context of the TC when you are looking to define a play style, then selecting a passing style will affect other things. For what you want, you get the style you want, then set the passing independently of the "setup" part of the TC. Same in 14 as in 12 or 13 in that regard. Or at least that is what I think you are asking . . .