World Cup Final 2010 - Netherlands vs Spain

[ArsenalFan7]

Were you watching the same game? How is giving yellows for tackles that were blatant reds in the 1st half having a good game?

Then letting robben kick the ball away and doing nothing, but giving xavi a yellow for the same thing 2 mins later

How is that possibly having a good game?

Yes and what about Iniesta and his constant diving?

He managed to get alot of the Holland team booked for nothing, especially that red card in which Iniesta was barely even touched yet went down like he'd been shot

[Candre168]

I think the Dutch should feel hard done by for that obstruction that Spain broke from and scored, forget what had been done previously, we are talking about what happened then and there.

But either way, if Robben put away those two sitters, they would be celebrating.

[7zige]

[Deltaroad]

Thought Webb had a good game considering players were doing anything to dive. He gave yellows where yellows were due. Could easily have finished with 9 players each with more controversy of who should have won.

People have to realise that in a final players are very competitive so a tackles are going to fly in hard. Webb kept the game under control I thought.

[Deltaroad]

Thought Webb had a good game considering players were doing anything to dive. He gave yellows where yellows were due. Could easily have finished with 9 players each with more controversy of who should have won.

People have to realise that in a final players are very competitive so a tackles are going to fly in hard. Webb kept the game under control I thought.

[Intruder-II]

Webb leniency provoked that the game was impossible to referee. Yellow card must be shown directly at the first bad tackle. Simple as that. Doesn't matter the situation or moment. Two footed tackle without the ball, direct red card. Easy as that. Karate Kick on the chest, direct red card and maybe arrest. If he'd done that, nothing would have happened. So, Webb's small character to impose himself and the Law built up the aggresive situation. It doesn't matter, the Law is objective. Eliminate subjectivity in decisions and it'll be perfect. You're determined by LAW as soon as you start the game. No place for interpretation. Observe perfectly and apply what the LAW makers had decided. Easy as that. Not a matter of taste or opinion here.

IT doesn't matter if a team has to abandon the game in the first ten minutes. Law should be applied.

[tony_cfc]

I don't think the ref was too lenient at all at the start but he really should have sent off De Jong and after that he did start to struggle a bit.

[Intruder-II]

I don't think the ref was too lenient at all at the start but he really should have sent off De Jong and after that he did start to struggle a bit.

Yeah. His soft approach made him lose respect from the players. Van Bommel & De Jong should have been gone in the first half.

[Tele Santana]

Bad refereeing for both sides.

De Jong not being ejected was quite something.

Ultimately the better team won.

And the red card on Iniesta play was one of his right decisions actually.

No matter if it was a soft play, he was placing himself on the verge of a scoring position.

Cheers,

Tele

[Jeroen Thijssen]

it was a corner on the other side, so it doesn't matter = regardless that was nowhere near a yellow (let alone a 2nd) for Heitinga. Puyol should have been sent off. No yellow for vd Wiel. Or Robben. Or van Bronckhorst. I can go on.

[Butts]

Incredibly I find myself completely disagreeing with red:D Heitinga had to go, Iniesta had a great chance at goal if he wasn't pulled back, Wiel deliberately tripped the player with his hands and was again imo a yellow, forgotten the van Bronckhorst one and don't know about Robben because I can't hear what he said. I don't think the Dutch can have any complaints about Puyol not being sent off when they could very easily have ended the game with 7 men.

[ishlilith]

it was a corner on the other side, so it doesn't matter = regardless that was nowhere near a yellow (let alone a 2nd) for Heitinga. Puyol should have been sent off. No yellow for vd Wiel. Or Robben. Or van Bronckhorst. I can go on.

no red for De Jong or van Bommel, etiher, I could go on.

So happy right now \o/

[Chr1s Lawson]

On reflection I really wonder how the Dutch got to the final, all they seem to do is give the ball to Robben, he runs.......runs some more........loses the ball......falls over screaming. The trio of Sneijder, Robben & Van Persie never seemed to pass to each other or at least Van Persie as the target man barely recieved a pass from either of the others throughout the whole Tournament.

[Mark Snellink]

Being Dutch, I am gutted that we lost, but not surprised. More surprised that we actually got into the final, when I had honestly expected the first real footballing nation (in this case, Brazil) that would be capable of putting pressure on the Dutch to knock us out, as Holland had been quite incapable of turning a domination in possession into scoring chances during group games, and in my opinion direly needed a player with the ability to finish chances like a true striker, not RvP.

Holland was **** poor in this game especially, and I for one don't believe for a minute that we ever deserved to have won this game. I would've rejoiced, but certainly don't feel like this game should have gone the other way.

As for the refereeing, it was just awful. There was no consistency, and several calls were just plain wrong. Spanish players did not get booked for similar offenses that earned yellow cards for Dutch players. On the other hand, Nigel de Jong should have been sent off and fined heavily for that heinous foul, no excuse. Mark van Bommel is a detestable criminal, who seems to divide his time equally between falling all over himself to draw fouls and kicking the **** out of anyone he can find. I disagree with the notion that Heitinga's red card was just, although I can see why it was given, but both of his yellows were harsh. Quite frankly, I don't think you should ever reward players that favor hitting the turf on what is "technically" a foul over doing their best to make it to the ball and trying to play football. And that includes on most days Arjen Robben, and other players on the Dutch side, which has disgusted me on several occasions.

Staggering how that was not called a corner, when the ball took a severe deflection from an all-Spanish wall. All in all, even if a large part of the refereeing might have been accurate, the magnitude of the errors far outweighed that. It would have been a different game if he had sent de Jong off, obviously, and the 600 odd million viewers that were not from Holland or Spain might have gotten a bit more bang for their buck.

One might argue Holland got screwed, but in all truth, it was football itself that took it up the ass in that game.

[Mark Snellink]

Someone needs to edit Zidane into that gif

[cms186]

it was a corner on the other side, so it doesn't matter = regardless that was nowhere near a yellow (let alone a 2nd) for Heitinga. Puyol should have been sent off. No yellow for vd Wiel. Or Robben. Or van Bronckhorst. I can go on.

i forget what the others were booked for, but robben was rightfully booked and should have been sent off for kicking the ball away later on, conveniently forgetting that de jong and van bommel should have been sent off too?

[R4M]

I just have to laugh at a lot of the posts around here.

Spain boring?. Underperforming?. We've played Switzerland, Honduras, Chile, Portugal, Paraguay, Germany and Netherlands. EVERY single of them teams did the same thing: park up the bus in front of the goal line and pray for a lucky counter attack, corner or freekick play to somehow score.

When you're up against a team that parks 10 out of their 11 players behind the ball, and never take any risks offensively, and you've got midfielders like Xavi, Alonso, Busquets and Iniesta you have to do one thing: keeping the ball and passing it around until some kind of space is created by the forwards. But that's a hell of a job to do when the other team gives you no space. Yet we did honor what we went to the WC for: to play the ball, to hold it and deny it to the other team and to play offensively. We never gave that up, we never pumped stupid balls up the field hoping for a stupid bounce of a criminal ball (they should burn all those stupid jabulanis, they're crap footballs) to confuse a defender. We played FOOTBALL. Most other teams around played rugby (only passing behind until someone pumped a ball up for the striker to run for it against all odds)

Spain has conceded two goals: one (the swiss one) was offside, and only came after three unlucky rebounds (and a bleeding defender). The other came from a lucky long range shot deflected by a defender. That's all. That's utter defensive top-class work, mixed with the best goalie in the world by a wide margin (casillas who saved some amazing one on ones and a key penalty).

Spain got abused by rough tackles rarely awarded the deserved reward (bookings or even red cards). Spain got denied some extremely clear penalties during the WC (two against switzerland, two against Honduras) was stupidly forced to repeat a penalty (against Paraguay), and then stolen a penalty and red card (Paraguay keeper over Cesc). All teams have played the same against us: Everyone behind, close lines, try to go on counter attacks and/or pumping random balls up the pitch and if Xavi/alonso/Iniesta/busquets get the ball, tackle aimed to the leg and not the ball (referee will just warn you, and book after 3/4 similar tackles only). There's a good reason Xabi Alonso, for instance, has played half the WC injured (he got badly hurt in a very rough tackle against Chile. Chilean player didn't get even booked).

During all the WC the designed tactic to deal against spain was the same: Everyone back, and kick them out of the game. Not the ball. The players.

Against the likes of Switzerland, Paraguay, Honduras or Chile it was to be expected: clearly inferior teams need to resort to ultradefensive high-agressive tactics. And refereeing was crap on those matches. But it was to be expected.

However then we face the vaunted Portuguese, with the fancy Cristiano Ronaldo (hyped as the best player in the world. Yes, I said it: hyped), they all play the same as the avobe. Everyone back. Harsh pressure. Only one in the team will be in front of the ball. And of course against such a closed opponent scoring 5 goals isn't easy. Much less with an ultra-inspired Eduardo, who stopped EVERYTHING (yes, even the play where the goal was scored, he had saved a certain goal before), and denied Spain of a bigger win, which was clearly deserved.

When we face the ultraoffensive Germany, who scored 8 goals against the likes of Argentina or England, we get to see the likes of Phillip Lahm going on the offensive for the first time...in the 33th minute. He rarely went up again for the remainder of the match. That pretty sums it up: Germany played the same: everyone behind, only go up in counters or free kicks. 9 players behind the ball. Pressure it. At least they didnd't resort to cheap nasty violent tactics (in fact Germany has been the most worthy contender Spain has faced in the whole WC), and that's why Spain, in a football clinic (nothing short of that) literally rolled all over it, as his coach admitted, as his players accepted, and as everyone said after the match no matter we had to win 1-0 in a corner kick.

Spain did play very good football. At least what EVERY team who played us allowed us to. Yes, we did score just 8 goals. Because against Honduras only luck prevented us to score at least 5. Because we were stolen 5 penalties. Because everyone in front of us parked the bus in their area and left no spaces, doing nothing woth talking offensively. Spain has played SO well that noone has dared to try to win a straightforward game against us. Not even Germany (proud national team that played 2nd best football in this WC). Not even Portugal. And of course, coudln't be different, not even Holland.

Tonight we played Netherlands. The proud descendants of that myth of a team Cruyff's team was (Expect to hear from him soon: I'm sure he's outraged at tonight's dutch team "tactics"). The total team. The absolute football machine. A team that has won everything it has (or lost, but even in '74 and '78, they DID win something: eternity) being honest with the ball, being offensive, betting on an offensive style, on brilliant football.

A team that today was nothing short of a collection of whiny thugs hiding within their own side of the field, spitting and doing a shameful treachery on the heritage of the likes of Cruyff, Neeskens, Krool, Rijkaard, van Basten, or Bergkamp that has made the dutch team a proud one for three decades. Tonight they did betray every single minute of football they've played since 1974. And once the sad feeling passes and time gives the dutch a perspective, I'm sure they'll be happy they didn't win their only world cup by resorting to what they did today: thuggery, violence. Ultradefensive tactics a proud dutch national team should never resort to because of their heritage. The Orange team has always shined because they wanted to play football, not anti-football.

you all can see the image up there. De jong over Alonso. Bruce Lee would've been proud of such a kick. He saw a yellow for such a bastard agression. Was subbed in the 2nd half.

Van Persie, second 30, already deserved a booking. 15 minutes later he already was deserving at least two. He finished the match.

I can put here the images of Van Bommel tackling Iniesta's right foot. For that he got a booking. Last time I checked, two footed violent tackles from behind to the other player's support leg without ball involved ,were immediate red cards. He was booked. Then he proceeded to make faul after faul over anyone with a blue shirt and near him. He single handedly commited more fouls that the whole Spanish team. Reiteration is a reason for bookings. Yet, he didn't get to see a second booking and sending off. He had earned it for minute 40' first half (the latest). He finished the game.

Just for those three players, and the fact that the Dutch team did NOTHING to play football (unless you're looking for the aussie sport of the same name where criminal kung-fu kicks like de jong's are quite usual), I can say that tonight the Orange team has DESTROYED what was a proud heritage, of a proud little nation I've always supported because they wanted to play FOOTBALL. Not kick-boxing.

I hear around that spanish players were showing imaginary yellow cards. What the hell do you want them to do? to shut up and soak hard tackle after hard tackle (not to talk about violent ones like those seen coming from the three guys mentioned avobe) and stay silent about it?. What about the Dutch who were yelling at the referee for EACH single decision he made, even when he was being LENIENT with the dutch player's rough tackles?. We did wave imaginary cards: the dutch actually achieved the ref to show them when he shouldn't, because of yelling (Ramos booking was shown just because half the dutch team came yelling to the referee). And yes, Puyol's was a fair booking. However it was his first faul. If you're a referee and you set up the standard that the first tackle is not going to be a booking for one team even if it deserves it, if you don't do the same with the other team then youre a crappy referee. Tonight a standard was set: in second 50 van Persie had done his first rough tackle deserving a yellow. He didn't get booked. Puyol's faul was his first. Was SPANISH FIRST, FFS. Immediate booking.

That's called unfairness.

About Iniesta's "red card". Laughable to say the least. He pushes Van Bommel, tired of his constant, repeated, thug-like tackles that met no referee acceptable answer. But he PUSHES him. Harsh. Roughly. But pushes. and that's an agression? pushing other player's shoulder in despair, tired of him constantly trying to saw your legs off without the referee doing ANYTHING to stop it at all?.

So, anyone here will tell me that pushing him that way was WORSE in any way to what de Jong did on Alonso?. What van Bommel did to Iniesta in his booking (which kept on doing, though in a more subtle way, for the rest of the game)?.

Has anyone who has called for a red card for iniesta, actually seen what happened?. Because you must be kidding. Or so biased that trying to debate with you is pointless.

That was a clear booking and a serious warning. But NEVER a red card. NEVER.

Against all that: a team closed in ultradefense tactics, resorting to utter violence (no, not hard defence: VIOLENCE), whining to the referee for EVERY decision time after time, against THAT, where most teams woudl've lost their heads and fallen to their same level, we didn't. We kept trying to be loyal to our style (where the Dutch were utterly betraying theirs). We kept on trying to hold the ball and move it around until an opening was found. We still tried to play attack, against all odds, against hard tackles, against kung fu players, against a lenient referee. And we did make some really worthy plays, to be honest. We didn't play top class football...we couldn't. The Dutch won't let us make three passes without kicking our midfielders off (and the ref would do nothing to stop it), yet we still persevered.

And we got our deserved win. Our deserved world cup. Our deserved victory. Out of every team we played, noone dared to challenge us to an equal fight. They all went catenaccio, and more times than not, they went to rough tackling (honorable mention to our most worthy adversary: germany, who NEVER resorted to that kind of dirty play). That's not the best scenario for a brilliant football, yet at times we WERE brilliant.

And we won. Deservedly.

For all those crybabies who gnash their teeth because they couldn't stand the fact that the only team in the World Cup that has played offensively (or actively tried to) game after game, match after match, minute after minute, has actually won the WC: Cry me a river.

We are proud and deserving champions.

[jmr]

tldr

Germany played far better/more entertaining football than you. Watching Spain play this tournament was like watching Greece back in 2004, boring and making me want to claw my eyes out.

[R4M]

Spanish proposal is similar to Barcelona's. Hell, half of the starting 11 come from Barça. Noone will say that Barcelona plays boring football, but against teams that park the bus over their goal line, chances on goal will be fewer and far between.

Germany did play against some teams that "Closed shop" on them. Twice, in the 1st round. Then they played England, a team that did try to actively attack, thus opening spaces for the german mid field. Then they played Argentina, same as England, Then Uruguay, who really pushed for the win.

Spain has played every single game against teams that "Closed shop" on us, giving up attack to concentrate on defence. Of course, Germany was more entertaining to see, they faced opposition that really tried to win their games. We played against teams who wanted to draw with us and whose only attack intentions were to catch a lost ball up high after pumping it up, or in a free kick/corner. Most teams were going ultradefensive on us even after we scored (honduras or Chile, for instance). It's hard to play very high quality ultra-entertaining football against such teams. Yet we did now and then (for instance, against Germany itself we had some moments of top-class football).

Simple stats: Spain is the team that has shot more times on goal in the WC. Which has the highest shots on goal/match played relation, and the highest average possession.

You might call that "boring". Barcelona has been doing that for 2 years now and is renowned as the best playing, most entertaining team to see worldwide. So I guess most football aficionados around the world do find that style attractive and entertaining.The fact that half the spanish starting team (Pique-Puyol-Xavi-Iniesta-Pedro-Busquets, not counting Villa, even while he's already a Barça player) comes from Barcelona just nails it even more.

BTW I also think Germany played top-class football in this WC. They simply didn't have to face the tactic challenges we did and so they had more chances to shine. But I've found a really heartfelt respect for Low's team and their proposal (and their fair play, and amazing class both in the pre- and post- game comments they did), even while against spain they did the "hold back, close spaces, limit attack" approach instead of trying to challenge Spain in a face to face contest.

[Intruder-II]

Being Dutch, I am gutted that we lost, but not surprised. More surprised that we actually got into the final, when I had honestly expected the first real footballing nation (in this case, Brazil) that would be capable of putting pressure on the Dutch to knock us out, as Holland had been quite incapable of turning a domination in possession into scoring chances during group games, and in my opinion direly needed a player with the ability to finish chances like a true striker, not RvP.

Holland was **** poor in this game especially, and I for one don't believe for a minute that we ever deserved to have won this game. I would've rejoiced, but certainly don't feel like this game should have gone the other way.

As for the refereeing, it was just awful. There was no consistency, and several calls were just plain wrong. Spanish players did not get booked for similar offenses that earned yellow cards for Dutch players. On the other hand, Nigel de Jong should have been sent off and fined heavily for that heinous foul, no excuse. Mark van Bommel is a detestable criminal, who seems to divide his time equally between falling all over himself to draw fouls and kicking the **** out of anyone he can find. I disagree with the notion that Heitinga's red card was just, although I can see why it was given, but both of his yellows were harsh. Quite frankly, I don't think you should ever reward players that favor hitting the turf on what is "technically" a foul over doing their best to make it to the ball and trying to play football. And that includes on most days Arjen Robben, and other players on the Dutch side, which has disgusted me on several occasions.

Staggering how that was not called a corner, when the ball took a severe deflection from an all-Spanish wall. All in all, even if a large part of the refereeing might have been accurate, the magnitude of the errors far outweighed that. It would have been a different game if he had sent de Jong off, obviously, and the 600 odd million viewers that were not from Holland or Spain might have gotten a bit more bang for their buck.

One might argue Holland got screwed, but in all truth, it was football itself that took it up the ass in that game.

I don't think Holland got screwed, but helped to reach extra time. If Van Bommel and De Jong had been sent off in the first half, you'd have lost first half by at least 2-0 i think and the bad fouls by Spanish players would never had happened later in the game.

[jmr]

This Spain team plays nothing like the Barca team. Spain/Del Bosque is far more cautious, don't want to make mistakes and will take their time looking for an opening which results in 50 passes between Busquets and the defense. Barca are much more direct, faster to get it forward and will change to a "we'll just outscore them then" if they make mistakes, Spain are just a really boring side to watch play, Barca are not. Even if teams were more open against Spain I don't think that would have changed Spains style of play much, if at all. The emphasis was clearly on controlling the midfield and not making mistakes rather than open attractive football.

[Intruder-II]

I just have to laugh at a lot of the posts around here.

Spain boring?. Underperforming?. We've played Switzerland, Honduras, Chile, Portugal, Paraguay, Germany and Netherlands. EVERY single of them teams did the same thing: park up the bus in front of the goal line and pray for a lucky counter attack, corner or freekick play to somehow score.

When you're up against a team that parks 10 out of their 11 players behind the ball, and never take any risks offensively, and you've got midfielders like Xavi, Alonso, Busquets and Iniesta you have to do one thing: keeping the ball and passing it around until some kind of space is created by the forwards. But that's a hell of a job to do when the other team gives you no space. Yet we did honor what we went to the WC for: to play the ball, to hold it and deny it to the other team and to play offensively. We never gave that up, we never pumped stupid balls up the field hoping for a stupid bounce of a criminal ball (they should burn all those stupid jabulanis, they're crap footballs) to confuse a defender. We played FOOTBALL. Most other teams around played rugby (only passing behind until someone pumped a ball up for the striker to run for it against all odds)

Spain has conceded two goals: one (the swiss one) was offside, and only came after three unlucky rebounds (and a bleeding defender). The other came from a lucky long range shot deflected by a defender. That's all. That's utter defensive top-class work, mixed with the best goalie in the world by a wide margin (casillas who saved some amazing one on ones and a key penalty).

Spain got abused by rough tackles rarely awarded the deserved reward (bookings or even red cards). Spain got denied some extremely clear penalties during the WC (two against switzerland, two against Honduras) was stupidly forced to repeat a penalty (against Paraguay), and then stolen a penalty and red card (Paraguay keeper over Cesc). All teams have played the same against us: Everyone behind, close lines, try to go on counter attacks and/or pumping random balls up the pitch and if Xavi/alonso/Iniesta/busquets get the ball, tackle aimed to the leg and not the ball (referee will just warn you, and book after 3/4 similar tackles only). There's a good reason Xabi Alonso, for instance, has played half the WC injured (he got badly hurt in a very rough tackle against Chile. Chilean player didn't get even booked).

During all the WC the designed tactic to deal against spain was the same: Everyone back, and kick them out of the game. Not the ball. The players.

Against the likes of Switzerland, Paraguay, Honduras or Chile it was to be expected: clearly inferior teams need to resort to ultradefensive high-agressive tactics. And refereeing was crap on those matches. But it was to be expected.

However then we face the vaunted Portuguese, with the fancy Cristiano Ronaldo (hyped as the best player in the world. Yes, I said it: hyped), they all play the same as the avobe. Everyone back. Harsh pressure. Only one in the team will be in front of the ball. And of course against such a closed opponent scoring 5 goals isn't easy. Much less with an ultra-inspired Eduardo, who stopped EVERYTHING (yes, even the play where the goal was scored, he had saved a certain goal before), and denied Spain of a bigger win, which was clearly deserved.

When we face the ultraoffensive Germany, who scored 8 goals against the likes of Argentina or England, we get to see the likes of Phillip Lahm going on the offensive for the first time...in the 33th minute. He rarely went up again for the remainder of the match. That pretty sums it up: Germany played the same: everyone behind, only go up in counters or free kicks. 9 players behind the ball. Pressure it. At least they didnd't resort to cheap nasty violent tactics (in fact Germany has been the most worthy contender Spain has faced in the whole WC), and that's why Spain, in a football clinic (nothing short of that) literally rolled all over it, as his coach admitted, as his players accepted, and as everyone said after the match no matter we had to win 1-0 in a corner kick.

Spain did play very good football. At least what EVERY team who played us allowed us to. Yes, we did score just 8 goals. Because against Honduras only luck prevented us to score at least 5. Because we were stolen 5 penalties. Because everyone in front of us parked the bus in their area and left no spaces, doing nothing woth talking offensively. Spain has played SO well that noone has dared to try to win a straightforward game against us. Not even Germany (proud national team that played 2nd best football in this WC). Not even Portugal. And of course, coudln't be different, not even Holland.

Tonight we played Netherlands. The proud descendants of that myth of a team Cruyff's team was (Expect to hear from him soon: I'm sure he's outraged at tonight's dutch team "tactics"). The total team. The absolute football machine. A team that has won everything it has (or lost, but even in '74 and '78, they DID win something: eternity) being honest with the ball, being offensive, betting on an offensive style, on brilliant football.

A team that today was nothing short of a collection of whiny thugs hiding within their own side of the field, spitting and doing a shameful treachery on the heritage of the likes of Cruyff, Neeskens, Krool, Rijkaard, van Basten, or Bergkamp that has made the dutch team a proud one for three decades. Tonight they did betray every single minute of football they've played since 1974. And once the sad feeling passes and time gives the dutch a perspective, I'm sure they'll be happy they didn't win their only world cup by resorting to what they did today: thuggery, violence. Ultradefensive tactics a proud dutch national team should never resort to because of their heritage. The Orange team has always shined because they wanted to play football, not anti-football.

you all can see the image up there. De jong over Alonso. Bruce Lee would've been proud of such a kick. He saw a yellow for such a bastard agression. Was subbed in the 2nd half.

Van Persie, second 30, already deserved a booking. 15 minutes later he already was deserving at least two. He finished the match.

I can put here the images of Van Bommel tackling Iniesta's right foot. For that he got a booking. Last time I checked, two footed violent tackles from behind to the other player's support leg without ball involved ,were immediate red cards. He was booked. Then he proceeded to make faul after faul over anyone with a blue shirt and near him. He single handedly commited more fouls that the whole Spanish team. Reiteration is a reason for bookings. Yet, he didn't get to see a second booking and sending off. He had earned it for minute 40' first half (the latest). He finished the game.

Just for those three players, and the fact that the Dutch team did NOTHING to play football (unless you're looking for the aussie sport of the same name where criminal kung-fu kicks like de jong's are quite usual), I can say that tonight the Orange team has DESTROYED what was a proud heritage, of a proud little nation I've always supported because they wanted to play FOOTBALL. Not kick-boxing.

I hear around that spanish players were showing imaginary yellow cards. What the hell do you want them to do? to shut up and soak hard tackle after hard tackle (not to talk about violent ones like those seen coming from the three guys mentioned avobe) and stay silent about it?. What about the Dutch who were yelling at the referee for EACH single decision he made, even when he was being LENIENT with the dutch player's rough tackles?. We did wave imaginary cards: the dutch actually achieved the ref to show them when he shouldn't, because of yelling (Ramos booking was shown just because half the dutch team came yelling to the referee). And yes, Puyol's was a fair booking. However it was his first faul. If you're a referee and you set up the standard that the first tackle is not going to be a booking for one team even if it deserves it, if you don't do the same with the other team then youre a crappy referee. Tonight a standard was set: in second 50 van Persie had done his first rough tackle deserving a yellow. He didn't get booked. Puyol's faul was his first. Was SPANISH FIRST, FFS. Immediate booking.

That's called unfairness.

About Iniesta's "red card". Laughable to say the least. He pushes Van Bommel, tired of his constant, repeated, thug-like tackles that met no referee acceptable answer. But he PUSHES him. Harsh. Roughly. But pushes. and that's an agression? pushing other player's shoulder in despair, tired of him constantly trying to saw your legs off without the referee doing ANYTHING to stop it at all?.

So, anyone here will tell me that pushing him that way was WORSE in any way to what de Jong did on Alonso?. What van Bommel did to Iniesta in his booking (which kept on doing, though in a more subtle way, for the rest of the game)?.

Has anyone who has called for a red card for iniesta, actually seen what happened?. Because you must be kidding. Or so biased that trying to debate with you is pointless.

That was a clear booking and a serious warning. But NEVER a red card. NEVER.

Against all that: a team closed in ultradefense tactics, resorting to utter violence (no, not hard defence: VIOLENCE), whining to the referee for EVERY decision time after time, against THAT, where most teams woudl've lost their heads and fallen to their same level, we didn't. We kept trying to be loyal to our style (where the Dutch were utterly betraying theirs). We kept on trying to hold the ball and move it around until an opening was found. We still tried to play attack, against all odds, against hard tackles, against kung fu players, against a lenient referee. And we did make some really worthy plays, to be honest. We didn't play top class football...we couldn't. The Dutch won't let us make three passes without kicking our midfielders off (and the ref would do nothing to stop it), yet we still persevered.

And we got our deserved win. Our deserved world cup. Our deserved victory. Out of every team we played, noone dared to challenge us to an equal fight. They all went catenaccio, and more times than not, they went to rough tackling (honorable mention to our most worthy adversary: germany, who NEVER resorted to that kind of dirty play). That's not the best scenario for a brilliant football, yet at times we WERE brilliant.

And we won. Deservedly.

For all those crybabies who gnash their teeth because they couldn't stand the fact that the only team in the World Cup that has played offensively (or actively tried to) game after game, match after match, minute after minute, has actually won the WC: Cry me a river.

We are proud and deserving champions.

I think you're generally right, excepting Paraguay. Paraguay plays well. Could have won against you. Paraguay stood against Spain at the same level.

[Intruder-II]

i forget what the others were booked for, but robben was rightfully booked and should have been sent off for kicking the ball away later on, conveniently forgetting that de jong and van bommel should have been sent off too?

I think the rule for kicking the ball away is wrong. You can't put a kicked away ball and a bad tackle at the same level of punishment.

[Chr1s Lawson]

I think the rule for kicking the ball away is wrong. You can't put a kicked away ball and a bad tackle at the same level of punishment.

Rules are rules, the players know them. If they can't obey they get time out on the naughty step!

[Mark Snellink]

I don't think Holland got screwed, but helped to reach extra time. If Van Bommel and De Jong had been sent off in the first half, you'd have lost first half by at least 2-0 i think and the bad fouls by Spanish players would never had happened later in the game.

I don't think Holland got screwed, though some seem to. If de Jong would have gotten sent off, the game might have been more open, perhaps less dirty for fear of more sendings off, or it would have still been a big steaming pile. No way to know, but like I said, it was the sport itself that was discredited by this ugly match.

[R4M]

jmr: totally disagree. Remember, I'm spanish (Thus a spanish nat team fan) and Barça fanatic, so I've seen every game from both teams. The proposal is similar between both teams, if not identical. Only change is the midfield layout, but the principles are exactly the same. Barcelona is direct only when there's a chance to (where there are spaces). No spaces=no gambling, so usually closed spaces means no risks are taken and an easier pass to another guy will be taken.

Please review the barcelona games against Real Madrid this season, or against Inter at Camp Nou. When Barcelona has to play against totally closed up opposition they find similar problems as you're detecting in Spain. I give you that in the league they take more risks, but not in the CL. Spain was playing a Wold Cup, a short tourney, and single match crosses up to the finals. Worse Barcelona had to face was home&away in the CL. In the WC a single mistake can take you home, so you NEED to run less risks, so I agree that del Bosque proposal was inherently more cautious. But not -that much-. Out of every other team in the WC at South Africa Spain has been the -only- one who has actively tried to go on the offensive in every and each single game they played. If that doesn't say enough...

Intruder: I disagree. I mean, I agree that Paraguay could've beaten us (That saved penalty was a god send), but Paraguay did what every other team did on us in this WC. Close up shop, close spaces, go defensive and bet on limited number counter attacks, a lost ball or free kick as only means of offensive. That they did an amazing defensive job (and that Pique's stupid penalty gave them the chance to win it) doesn't prevent the fact that Paraguay did play ultradefensive on us.

Not trying to deny any credit to them, btw. Is one of the most serious threats and most complicated games we had to win to reach the title. Paraguay really did shut Spain off for most of the match, and that only can be said of one other team: Holland (and they did so in a very different way, resorting to very violent means Paraguay never resorted to even while being, on paper, a much poorer side, something that only honors them even more)

[jmr]

You do know there are tv sets that show 99% of Barca games? There is no way Barca play as slowly and cautiously as Spain do, if they did they wouldn't have so many fans not from Spain. Spain have been a let down this tournament (to watch, results obviously withstanding) due to the fact they are capable of playing a similar faster tempo like Barcelona but refused to do so, just like Brazil this year they went to something more conservative which makes them more boring. People expected moves like the goal in the Poland game just before the world cup, or barca'esque type moves but it never happened.

[RubenJ]

haha, Van Marwijk claiming ref bias

I truly respected that man, but if he's blaming the ref for this I am forced to change my opinion. Holland were extremely lucky to get away with just that late red card. Should have been reduced to 10 after about half an hour.

some hilarious posts in this thread as well

[R4M]

"You do know there are tv sets that show 99% of Barca games? "

I better do. I'm a subscriber of Barça TV for some good reason! ...but we seem to see different things in the games we watch.

And sure we all wanted to see, as you said, the Poland goal in every match played by spain. Turned out to be different. But not because we played with different principles...but because the teams we faced did so (compared with Poland). As I said, is much harder to have clear cut goal chances against parked-bus teams, and that's exactly what we've been faced day after day. And then a particular lack of accuracy on goal has also haunted us (as I said, we're the team that has more shots, but very low effectivity...and not because we lack quality in front of the goal but...), as well as some anxiety after the Switzerland game.

In any case, one thing is clear. We knew the path ahead of us if we wanted to be world cup champions. But there's a difference between knowing the walk and actually WALK the walk. Anxiety has been a constant with Spain this tourney, and certainly that didn't help either (look at Pedro vs Germany, he had Torres alone but he was simply blind. Or Cesc today with Villa. Or even Iniesta with Villa). We're the newcomers. The first-timers. And sometimes we paid the noob-penalty. We simply wanted this so damned too much that in certain moments we lacked the cold blood that could've given us more goals (chances we certainly had to achieve it. A lot). But once you've been champion things change. So expect a much stronger spanish side to come after this, that little star over our shield will give us something we lacked this WC: ability to believe in ourselves...that, we did lack, even after the Euro'08 win. Until today.

Anyway, all I know is that I'm exhausted. Has been a hell of a day, it's late and I'm heading to bed. Lets agree on a point: we disagree , and leave it at that .

[The Pain]

Theres nothing conservative about Spain, they want to controll the ball the whole game and when they find space they take advantage. They don't force anything and keep the ball if nothing is open its intelligent football. They don't sit and wait for the opponents to give them the ball they keep searching for space with their great movement and patience, its attacking football.

[G-Man11]

Have to say I agree with JMR. Both Spain and Barca play a passing game but the Spain team played a hell of a lot more cautious version of passing football than Barca do.

[jmr]

They definitely play cautiously, trying not to make mistakes is priority #1, it's effective but pretty boring. They could open it up abit more, attack with abit more pace instead of the 50 passes between the defense and midfield but it's abit more risky and Del Bosque clearly doesn't want to play that way. I think I'm just disappointed because they have the potential to be one of the greatest teams to watch play but I dunno, watching their games this tournament bored me to tears and it wasn't just the oppositions fault. It's not just them either though. Uruguay and Germany "saved" this tournament for me, I still love Holland 08 though, the football they played against France and Italy was superb.

[roseboy64]

Spain don't have Messi so can't play exactly like Barca.

[jmr]

Don't need Messi to play a more open, attractive game. I understand why they don't play that way, but why should I care about that as a neutral

[VamPook]

Have you even played football? Do you know how difficult it is to play to Spain's high standard of possession football without having to hoof it down the field ala England? Can you blame them for looking to play that killer pass and biding their time for that pass to appear, rather than just blindly going for it time & again

[Svenc]

BTW I also think Germany played top-class football in this WC. They simply didn't have to face the tactic challenges we did and so they had more chances to shine. But I've found a really heartfelt respect for Low's team and their proposal (and their fair play, and amazing class both in the pre- and post- game comments they did), even while against spain they did the "hold back, close spaces, limit attack" approach instead of trying to challenge Spain in a face to face contest.

Cheers, don't feel bad about anything. Same with Italy 2006 and Greece 2004 - they were not there as a byproduct of "modern football" - mainly for entertaining the masses and quadrupling TV audience ratings, but for winning the thing, well Greece not from the start, mind. I had some fun watching Holland in 2008 or Germany this tournament as much as anyone, but I'm angry at people not recognizing how organized a team Italy were in 2006, how massive Cannavaro was that Summer - and how brilliant Greece's tactics were in 2004. In similar fashion this Spanish midfield has to be one of the most dominant ones in World Cup history. I'm quite puzzled how people who are seriously into football occasionally don't recognize any of this even more.

[VamPook]

Anyway -

[Tele Santana]

To be fair I was glad to see that a team can play pragmatically and win without needing to resort to consistent fouling (Netherlands entered the match as the team with most fouls in the WC, at 98 in 6 matches).

Yes, Spain didn´t play an attractive football like Barça plays, but hey, this year Barça didn´t win the Champions, and Spain is the World Champion.

I just think they prepared for a 7-match tournament like it should be played, and I do think they have a very, very talented squad. They might have not seemed very inspired, they might have even been stretched by Paraguay and got away with few lucky calls, but generally speaking, I think the Spanish deserve this title and have the best side nowadays in the world.

It is a shame Fernando Torres wasn´t on form.

Spain has a foundation for years to come, and they will be very strong contenders in Brazil 2014 defending their title, I believe.

Having said that, they are still beatable and that is the beauty of football.

Cheers,

Tele

Cheers,

Tele

[jmr]

Have you even played football? Do you know how difficult it is to play to Spain's high standard of possession football without having to hoof it down the field ala England? Can you blame them for looking to play that killer pass and biding their time for that pass to appear, rather than just blindly going for it time & again

Oh dear, what a **** post. Can't believe people still use the "have you even played football?" line, condescending ****. The answer btw is, to a much higher standard than you have.

[Razzler]

That final was pretty much how I expected it to be, lots of shennigans, thought Webb was doing ok until a point, missed the karate kick but thought we went benefit of the doubt. Gave Ramos a weak yellow but as the game went on the Spanish decided for themselves they weren't getting enough decisions to the imaginery cards kept coming out. Always gonna be difficult and he's on a hiding to nothing, I expect all future World Cup Finals to be similar, especially if it's 0-0 going into the 70th minute or so.

Thought Heitenga's 2nd yellow was ridiculous, that Charlie Chaplin sequence of 3 players all flopping the floor around the Dutch box was also a highlight. Spain probably deserved to win and probably are the best team in the world. I get sick of the "everyone defends against them, what do you expect them to do" arguement which has carried over from Barcelona, yes, shame everyone doesn't come out and play expansive football against them, isn't it?

For all their possession you can sometimes think they should have more shots on goal and I don't think they played 'dull' throughout the tournament, I don't think anyone was particularly exciting but that is top level football with so much at stake.

Wasn't the best final, wasn't the best tournament

[Razzler]

I noticed this Muller winning the top scorer thing, he has 5 goals like Schneider and Villa I believe but then read that his 3 assists put him ahead of the others ... really? Is this a new thing? I always thought it was 'shared' if they were level

[Micado]

I have a bottle of Vodka ready for when Howard Webb dies. Please inform me when that happens, cheers!

Too bad Robben missed two sitters.

Agreed, Robben should have scored the first one, 100% chance.

Overall the better team won, congratulations to Spain, still disappointed though.

Webb hadn't the best game, for either side, but that he didn't see that corner!!!!!

Anyway, proud of the Dutch team that they reached the final, we can play very good, but we just didn't do it at this WC but good team performance overall.

I noticed this Muller winning the top scorer thing, he has 5 goals like Schneider and Villa I believe but then read that his 3 assists put him ahead of the others ... really? Is this a new thing? I always thought it was 'shared' if they were level

Isn't it because Muller played one game less then Sneijder/Villa and that that is the decider for this.

[roseboy64]

Isn't it because Muller played one game less then Sneijder/Villa and that that is the decider for this.

No. Assists.

[Razzler]

No, it was assists, anyway, you shouldn't reward someone for playing a game less when that came about cause of suspension (no matter how silly that hand ball yellow card was).

[robbert_o154]

No, it was assists, anyway, you shouldn't reward someone for playing a game less when that came about cause of suspension (no matter how silly that hand ball yellow card was).

Assists are an equally random decider, imo. Should have just left it as a joint win.

[Müller1469564937]

I just have to laugh at a lot of the posts around here.

Spain boring?. Underperforming?. We've played Switzerland, Honduras, Chile, Portugal, Paraguay, Germany and Netherlands.

Apart from Germany, that's possibly the easiest road to the final I've ever seen, tbh.

[crouchaldinho]

Absolute nonsense to do it through assists.

[Razzler]

Assists are an equally random decider, imo. Should have just left it as a joint win.

Agree, that's why I said earlier 'we're using assists for this now'. I am sure it used to just be shared and then I read Muller wins as he got 3 assists. Seems odd

[robbert_o154]

I am sure it used to just be shared

Yeah, that's what I thought as well. Seem to remember one in the 90's being shared, must have been '94 then, because '90 and '98 weren't iirc.

[robbert_o154]

I am sure it used to just be shared

Yeah, that's what I thought as well. Seem to remember one in the 90's being shared, must have been '94 then, because '90 and '98 weren't iirc.