I take it that Capello is finished now?

[IMT]

Capello is saying the players and Rooney was really tired. Then why didn't he rest them for the friendlies? Its not effecting other players like Tevez.

They also played less games on average than the German side did, that excuse just doesn't wash, why can't he at least have the balls to say his tactics failed, and his players failed? And did he really say Germany were not the better side until it went to 3-1??? Unbelievably deluded!

[GillsMan]

They also played less games on average than the German side did, that excuse just doesn't wash, why can't he at least have the balls to say his tactics failed, and his players failed? And did he really say Germany were not the better side until it went to 3-1??? Unbelievably deluded!

Because if he said his players failed in public then he might as well give up now, because there's no way they'd play for him in any meaningful sense of the word.

And he said that England were the better side from the moment Upson scored up until the German's scored their third goal, which isn't a million miles away from the truth in fairness, although Germany looked the better side shortly before they scored the third IMO.

[robbert_o154]

Spurs being BOTTOM of the league when he took over

This argument is invariably bandied about when talking up the brilliance of 'Arry, and it's a really rubbish one. Was Spurs a rubbish team doomed for relegation? No. They were a good team with a bad start, and they would always have regressed to the mean. This year, Everton had an atrocious start yet finished 8th, and they didn't need to change managers for that either, did they?

[Woodmansee]

Does sound like hes grasping at straws to defend the team, at the same time hes sticking his foot in it even more.

[Woodmansee]

This argument is invariably bandied about when talking up the brilliance of 'Arry, and it's a really rubbish one. Was Spurs a rubbish team doomed for relegation? No. They were a good team with a bad start, and they would always have regressed to the mean. This year, Everton had an atrocious start yet finished 8th, and they didn't need to change managers for that either, did they?

When was the last time Spurs made it to the Champions league, or Europe?

[crouchaldinho]

Harry may play 4-4-2, but he also has a plan B if that doesn't work, he is also doing so at club level where it can still work, at international level it is so antiquated

You really think so? Why do you think it 'still works' at club level?

[IMT]

No of course not Robbert, as they had a good manager to start with, Spurs were bottom due to having a poor manager, and was not until a good one took over did they turn it around. Spurs just may well have gone down had they not changed their manager.

[IMT]

You really think so? Why do you think it 'still works' at club level?

Well, apart from Spurs proving this, it's a different game, name me one other top international team that plays 4-4-2? Germany don't, Argentina don't, Brazil don't, Holland don't.

[SiN8]

When was the last time Spurs made it to the Champions league, or Europe?

That's probably more due to the fact that they've spent close to £150m NET over the last three years (according to transfermarkt.co.uk).

[GillsMan]

Well, apart from Spurs proving this, it's a different game, name me one other top international team that plays 4-4-2? Germany don't, Argentina don't, Brazil don't, Holland don't.

France do...oh.

[Woodmansee]

That's probably more due to the fact that they've spent close to £150m NET over the last three years (according to transfermarkt.co.uk).

The 150 mil didn't do much the season before, and the fact they was at the bottom of the league. And how much did they make from selling players?

[robbert_o154]

No of course not Robbert, as they had a good manager to start with, Spurs were bottom due to having a poor manager, and was not until a good one took over did they turn it around. Spurs just may well have gone down had they not changed their manager.

We shall never know, maybe you're right. I believe that a team with decent players will always return to their normal standard sooner or later, and subsequently that even if they'd retained Ramos they would have ended up mid-table by the end of that season, but obviously that's unprovable.

[brett.spurs]

Harry seems to be vastly underrated around here due to people letting their hate of him blind their judgment.

[Zaitsev]

Harry seems to be vastly underrated around here due to people letting their hate of him blind their judgment.

I think he's seen as someone who is more of a cheque book manager and perhaps attached to atypical English ways of playing, and also lacks the experience of international management that Hodgson possesses.

[ericcantona7]

Well yeah, you are right.

I remember playing on full size pitched at under 11 ffs...

so do I, we lost 18-0 against a team who could kick the ball further than us.

[miketheheadlesschicken]

Harry seems to be vastly underrated around here due to people letting their hate of him blind their judgment.

He's made some ignorant comments about some of the teams at the World Cup. I'm not surprised that there are English fans who are wary of him being the national manager.

[Woodmansee]

Capello had no international management. Most mangers have made ignorant comments, doesn't mean hes not the best man for the job.

[GingerFurballmkII]

Time to get a young-ish manager now, and give him a long-term contract (well, 5+ years), so that he can actually develop players on the international stage, beats chopping and changing every 2 years. Perhaps that's what McClaren was supposed to be, but tbf nobody had any faith in him to begin with...

It's certainly worked for Germany.

It worked for Germany because they refocussed after a poor World Cup in 1998, and a shocking Euro 2000, realised that there was an absolute dearth of high quality young German players, and that they would need to seriously focus on youth development if Germany were to emerge again as a serious force. Germany's success in 2002, 2006 and to a lesser extent 2008 were accidental, it's now that the fruits of their policy are emerging.

International level is not where to develop players. It needs to be done at the clubs, and takes years to implement properly.

[bell]

I agree. It also needs to supported by the FA acorss the country. To be a pro-footballer is most 8 year old boys dream, evn my 4 year old wants to play for England. That said, despite it being our national sport development of the youngest players is placed almost entirely in the hands of small local clubs. There are community initiatives ran by professional clubs but they can only do so much. I know when I was growing up I was 11 before my interest in football was really picqued. It was just played in the playground prior to that.

Surely, the FA, Premier League & Football League as governing body need to look at how the can aid development at the very begining and make sure youngsters are getting good coaching at an early age.

Isn't Brooking meant to be in charge of this kind of thing?

[Woodmansee]

Director of Football Development, that would be him.

[GillsMan]

So far as I've heard on BBC Radio 5 Live, Brooking is trying but ultimately being ignored by the men in suits at the FA. Not sure how true that is mind.

If Capello were to leave , England could do a lot worse than Brooking as the manager, seriously. I'd prefer him over Redknapp tbh.

[Suge]

The biggest thing I fail to understand about England is we pay our managers nearly triple the yearly salary of every other national team. Capello is on £6m a year which equates to approximately £115K a week. The nearest one to him is Lippi who is on £2m a year.

Cut his salary by half and spend the excess on grass roots. No England manager since Alf Ramsey has deserved more than £50 a week.

EDIT: Just found this list http://ggfitnesstraining.com/salaries-of-coaches-going-to-south-africa-world-cup-2010/.

[McMaster#28]

Would they join otherwise?

[Woodmansee]

I think England felt they needed to spend the money to get a successful foreigner manager that gives us something we're missing.

[ericcantona7]

I agree. It also needs to supported by the FA acorss the country. To be a pro-footballer is most 8 year old boys dream, evn my 4 year old wants to play for England. That said, despite it being our national sport development of the youngest players is placed almost entirely in the hands of small local clubs. There are community initiatives ran by professional clubs but they can only do so much. I know when I was growing up I was 11 before my interest in football was really picqued. It was just played in the playground prior to that.

Surely, the FA, Premier League & Football League as governing body need to look at how the can aid development at the very begining and make sure youngsters are getting good coaching at an early age.

Isn't Brooking meant to be in charge of this kind of thing?

maybe the problem is the FA, who would you trust to train players better, Man United or the FA? who really has the money and the resources to do it?

yet now United aren't allowed to go down to London and 'poach' players like Beckham and train them to be world class players. Instead a player has to join his local club who may not have the facilities or coaches, especially coaches, because any club can build facilities if they have the cash, but there's only so many coaches to go around and they will always be at the top clubs.

[chopper99]

Maybe that's part of the problem. People are managing England more for the money than for the pride of leading them to glory.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

The biggest thing I fail to understand about England is we pay our managers nearly triple the yearly salary of every other national team. Capello is on £6m a year which equates to approximately £115K a week. The nearest one to him is Lippi who is on £2m a year.

Cut his salary by half and spend the excess on grass roots. No England manager since Alf Ramsey has deserved more than £50 a week.

EDIT: Just found this list http://ggfitnesstraining.com/salaries-of-coaches-going-to-south-africa-world-cup-2010/.

I have been forced to deduce that the Managerial targets of the FA will not come for a "fair" salary, and the reason for that would be that they dont really fancy the job but will take it for the obscene money offer alone. And why do they not fancy the job? Beacuse the quality of playing staff does not meet the expectation. Im not defending these carpetbagging managers though as they should refuse the job as "impossible" rather than take the riches with no hope of meeting the expectations.

[Woodmansee]

Im not defending these carpetbagging managers though as they should refuse the job as "impossible" rather than take the riches with no hope of meeting the expectations.

I'm not sure that would be possible but still a very interesting point.

[-rudi-]

Don't know why people are freaking out so much about this. The only game England 'should' have won, based on how good they really are (as reflected by their world ranking) is the Algeria game. Drawing against the US was a reasonable result, Algeria was a poor performance, Slovenia was better and they won as expected. Losing to Germany is completely normal.

Best case scenario for England was beating Algeria, topping the group, meeting a more 'beatable' team like Ghana and then losing in the Quarter Finals like they always do. They underachieved in one game and went out the round before the one they can be reasonably expected to reach. Did anyone think for one moment they'd be amongst favourites to get to the semi's or even the final? Would have been a big over-achievement and required a fair bit of luck, imo.

[robbert_o154]

A fair bit of luck is what they had with the draw, though. Either Uruguay or Ghana is going to make the semi's. That could have been England, if only they'd won the group. So yes, before the tournament began I did expect them to reach the semi's and that wasn't outside the realm of possibility at all.

Completely agree with your first paragraph, btw.

[Woodmansee]

Its more than that Rudi. We should have won the group. Gave Germany a better game, not losing by a record amount. But more than all that it was the spirit of the England team, they looked passionless for so long. It's the worst England team in terms of performance I've ever witnessed at a big tournament.

[-rudi-]

A fair bit of luck is what they had with the draw, though. Either Uruguay or Ghana is going to make the semi's. That could have been England, if only they'd won the group. So yes, before the tournament began I did expect them to reach the semi's and that wasn't outside the realm of possibility at all.

Completely agree with your first paragraph, btw.

Yeah I agree about the draw, was a weird one and England could have been reasonably expected to get that far (if playing at their best, that is).

[GillsMan]

Its more than that Rudi. We should have won the group. Gave Germany a better game, not losing by a record amount. But more than all that it was the spirit of the England team, they looked passionless for so long. It's the worst England team in terms of performance I've ever witnessed at a big tournament.

I was about to agree with you and then I remembered Euro 2000.

[Woodmansee]

Maybe its so bad because my memory fails me. What happened at Euro 2000 again?

[GillsMan]

Maybe its so bad because my memory fails me. What happened at Euro 2000 again?

Phil Neville had the game of his life.

[Woodmansee]

Just had a look, it must have been bad, I don't really remember it. We beat Germany 1-0

I just had a trip down memory lane. We had a hard group then, Germany(who came last) and a good Romanian and Portugal side.

[Dean Gripton]

I see the Japanese manager Takeshi Okada is likely to quit, saying it was his responsibility that Japan didnt beat Paraguay today.

Sven and Capello, plus every manager in England, choke on their dinner in disbelief. How dare he show such honesty, respect and humility.

[skybluedave]

Maybe its so bad because my memory fails me. What happened at Euro 2000 again?

At least Euro 2000 was quite exciting. I mean the Portugal and Romania games were fantastic watches

[Chongtom]

Lippi did the same if iirc when Italy went out. If he leaves we shouldn't have to pay him that much as a matter of respect.

[Boltman]

I see the Japanese manager Takeshi Okada is likely to quit, saying it was his responsibility that Japan didnt beat Paraguay today.

Sven and Capello, plus every manager in England, choke on their dinner in disbelief. How dare he show such honesty, respect and humility.

He offered to resign before the tournament after some ropey friendly results, and he's also maintained all along that after the World Cup he was quitting football altogether to become a farmer. He did say he reckoned Japan could make the semi-final though, so maybe seppuku is the only honorable option left?

[ericcantona7]

I see the Japanese manager Takeshi Okada is likely to quit, saying it was his responsibility that Japan didnt beat Paraguay today.

Sven and Capello, plus every manager in England, choke on their dinner in disbelief. How dare he show such honesty, respect and humility.

shame culture>>>guilt culture clearly.

[Dean Gripton]

Ahh, didn't know that Boltman.

Still, refreshing to see someone blame himself instead of everyone and everything else he can think of.

[Woodmansee]

Japan did really good, he could be the next England manager.

[gaga_4_parma]

Lippi did the same if iirc when Italy went out. If he leaves we shouldn't have to pay him that much as a matter of respect.

Lippi was leaving anyways as we had already hired Prandelli for Euro qualification.

The biggest thing I fail to understand about England is we pay our managers nearly triple the yearly salary of every other national team. Capello is on £6m a year which equates to approximately £115K a week. The nearest one to him is Lippi who is on £2m a year.

Cut his salary by half and spend the excess on grass roots. No England manager since Alf Ramsey has deserved more than £50 a week.

EDIT: Just found this list http://ggfitnesstraining.com/salaries-of-coaches-going-to-south-africa-world-cup-2010/.

Wow...well done Capello...

[Boltman]

Ahh, didn't know that Boltman.

Still, refreshing to see someone blame himself instead of everyone and everything else he can think of.

Indeed. another +1 for Asian football.

Wow...well done Capello...

The arguments bringing his salary into whether he should stay or go are interesting. On one hand, I can see why it's only right to expect that a coach with a salary so much larger than any of his peers should be expected to attain top results, but at the same time I can't help think there's a Mike Bassett appointment scenario here, in that the F.A. had to dangle an absolutely obscene financial carrot in order to attract the top calibre coaches towards a job that I can only think most of them view as a poisoned chalice and a fast track to hate status in England at least. Would people have accepted going out in the last 16 if the coach was Sam Allardyce on 500K a year?

[gaga_4_parma]

The arguments bringing his salary into whether he should stay or go are interesting. On one hand, I can see why it's only right to expect that a coach with a salary so much larger than any of his peers should be expected to attain top results, but at the same time I can't help think there's a Mike Bassett appointment scenario here, in that the F.A. had to dangle an absolutely obscene financial carrot in order to attract the top calibre coaches towards a job that I can only think most of them view as a poisoned chalice and a fast track to hate status in England at least. Would people have accepted going out in the last 16 if the coach was Sam Allardyce on 500K a year?

I said it when Capello was appointed that he clearly signed up to bump his pension further.

Capello since his Roma days has become a businessman first...

Also this is probably the first time Capello has not walked away when his future is made unclear...back in the day he would not have thought twice about walking away...

That being said Englands qualification was done in convincing fashion...I just think the players fell apart once they got to SA and everything that happened prior was forgotten.

[Boltman]

Well I'm a subscriber to the theory that "something" wasn't correct, the mysterious "something" being preparation, fitness, or attitude. I don't think the coach playing an unfashionable system, or the fact he's not English leads to the players looking lifeless, lacking in energy, lacking in enthusiasm or enjoyment, and also wrecking the first touch of some of the more technically accomplished members of the squad. Ok, Rooney is probably the most glaring example of what I'm talking about, but as one of the players in the side with a more energetic and frantic style of play (with a nod to Gerrard) you'd expect to notice those short-comings in him more than the others, but it wasn't just Rooney, the whole team looked dead beat, tired, washed out, burst. What ever you want to call it.

[nistelrooy_uk_10]

Don't think Capello was responsible for the comedy defending against Germany either.

[Woodmansee]

Well I'm a subscriber to the theory that "something" wasn't correct, the mysterious "something" being preparation, fitness, or attitude. I don't think the coach playing an unfashionable system, or the fact he's not English leads to the players looking lifeless, lacking in energy, lacking in enthusiasm or enjoyment, and also wrecking the first touch of some of the more technically accomplished members of the squad. Ok, Rooney is probably the most glaring example of what I'm talking about, but as one of the players in the side with a more energetic and frantic style of play (with a nod to Gerrard) you'd expect to notice those short-comings in him more than the others, but it wasn't just Rooney, the whole team looked dead beat, tired, washed out, burst. What ever you want to call it.

I read that wrong, think its bedtime for me. I agree with your points.

[gaga_4_parma]

So you believe Capello and subscribe to the team being tired. That is part of preparation by the way. If the players was tired, why did he run them into the ground by playing three friendlies before the world cup?

Ah Mexico iirc played atleast 12 friendly in like 4/5 months leading up to the WC. 8 of those friendlies iirc were all in 1 month in May...

Tiredness is not an excuse...and Capello certainly didn't drive them into the ground.