Does anyone manage in MLS?

[Jason the Yank]

IIRC, MLS has said they plan to halt expansion at 20 teams and discuss what to do next.

Montreal looks all but certain to be No. 19, but No. 20 is up in the air. St. Louis can't seem to get an ownership group that satisfies MLS. Ottawa has 2 conflicting groups (one wants an MLS team, one wants a CFL team, both are eyeing the same stadium site). The league would love a second New York team, but the Wilpons lost their shirt to Bernie Madoff. Las Vegas supposedly has a group and a stadium plan (retractable roof, attached to a new casino), but Vegas has been decimated by the housing collapse.

[pieman99]

For the DP you got 11 player to play on you get only 2 DP which is ridiculous. I'm mean i don't know if NFL does the DP and I think t's 15 player on the picht for one side (excuse my limited knowledge on NFL) and how many DP do you get for that?

MLS should fellow the rules like the rest of the world when it comes to football/soccer.

beside I think in the futur their will be a limit on the money price for a player to be given. I think Platini is looking into it

No you don't understand the rules of the NFL...it's 11 players on the pitch (field) for each team. There is no DP for the NFL. The NFL equally shares the profits with all teams....they also equally share the profits from the selling of "kits" and such. By doing this it helps all teams in the league have a chance at winning the championship. To prove this a small town team like the Green Bay Packers actually have one the most championships (going back to the pre-Super Bowl days) and Pittsburg (another small market team) have won the most Super Bowls. The MLS system is in place for a reason...there is no way that at this point in time Americans will support soccer in the same manner as the "top" football (soccer) nations in the world do and attempting to run a league like that right now...would cause the league to fail as the NASL did. It's interesting..."soccer" is the #1 sport in the world..and yet the #1 league in the world as far as money goes...is by far the NFL....so they must be doing something right. I'm not saying that the rest of the world's football/soccer model is bad...I'm just stating that the American "NFL" model works very well so don't knock it until you really understand it. As far as the FM goes...I usually start out in the MLS and after 3-4 seasons move to a European club. While I completely understand the reasons the MLS is set up the way it is...for FM I find them a pain and have to move on.

[moneyhero]

is there no way on the new league editor etc we can take the current league format and sides and create a new league which should have the normal transfer style?

may take away some realism but will at least make it playable

[*Injektilo]

Actually the northernmost MLS city (Seattle) is further south than Paris. Just had to point that out as a geographer.

If you know much about geography, you'd know that

1. Seattle's weather is not indicative of the rest of the continent.

2. Weather patterns change significantly in a continent, regardless of latitude.

3. Chicago is also further south than Paris. Chicago's average temperature in January is -1C. In Paris, it's 7C.

The weather in Northeastern US and Canada is simply too cold to consider playing outdoors over the fall and winter.

[senorcoo]

Thank you for regurgitating pretty much every single obligatory Eurosnob argument in one post.

Attendances aren't terrible. The MLS averaged about 16,500 people per game last year. That number will clearly increase in 2009 with the Sounders coming into the league. The numbers are about equal to the SPL and Brazil's top league, and exceed the average attendance in a number of "soccer countries."

I'm not sure which rules you think are "ridiculous" but you've already explained yourself why promotion/relegation won't happen. You can be sure that if a European Super League ever takes off, it won't have promotion/relegation in it, either. No one will mind that, of course. The draft? The league is already loosening rules with respect to academy programs, which should encourage more player development at the club level. It will take a few years to see the effect of the changes, though. In the mean time, the draft does its job: it gets young American players into the league.

The quality of play isn't great, but it depends what you're comparing it to. When you watch an MLS game you know you aren't going to see Barcelona. That's a given. However, the quality of play is improving, and as the league gets bigger and increases its reputation around the world, the level of players teams can recruit will get better. While it seems unlikely that MLS will be a top-tier league in the next 10 or 15 years, I see no reason why it can't be a legitimate second-level league.

The schedule thing is a non-issue, as far as I'm concerned. The league runs from April until October. When you're dealing with a season this long, there's obviously going to be overlap with other sports.

Attendances increasing due to constantly bringing in new teams is a fraud. Of course attendances are going to increase a little when you bring in something novel to an area. A major professional sport drawing 16000 people and you call that thriving? My local AAA baseball team draws 10000. The rule that I find most ridiculous are the extreme limits on international players. The MLS tries so hard to promote good young American players to the public and it works, until a European comes along and offers them some cash at which point they hock them like a piece of jewelry at a pawn shop (see Clint Dempsey, Jozy Altidore, Freddy Adu, etc.). If they are "thriving" so much, why don't they turn down the money and keep some of these players together so that A.) fans can get a little attached to their teams and B.) the quality will naturally improve by players staying together. The draft is a joke (especially in FM). Once again, parity may work in American football, but in soccer/football, all it serves to do is make a bunch of generic teams.

Fans don't care about the draft getting American players in the league if a vast majority of them aren't very good. To say the quality of play isn't great, is a massive understatement. Watching MLS, we're not going to see Barca? No kidding. It's like watching a bunch of 10-year olds kicking a football around. Painful, really. And of course it's improving - when you are terrible at something and practice it over and over, you are bound to improve. The only international players that will come here are those South American players looking for more exposure than they are getting in their own leagues or European players trying to cash one more big paycheck. It isn't going to be a top tier league in 500 years, never mind 10 to 15. As a second tier league, I would argue that there are plenty of other second tier leagues that are better, so at BEST, they are a third tier league. The schedule is impossible to avoid, because with so many other major sports in America, soccer is always going to have to compete with one or two sports at a time and it just isn't going to beat them out for the fans $$$. Period.

[rancer890]

IIRC, MLS has said they plan to halt expansion at 20 teams and discuss what to do next.

Montreal looks all but certain to be No. 19, but No. 20 is up in the air. St. Louis can't seem to get an ownership group that satisfies MLS. Ottawa has 2 conflicting groups (one wants an MLS team, one wants a CFL team, both are eyeing the same stadium site). The league would love a second New York team, but the Wilpons lost their shirt to Bernie Madoff. Las Vegas supposedly has a group and a stadium plan (retractable roof, attached to a new casino), but Vegas has been decimated by the housing collapse.

Montreal - I agree. The Impact (I think they will retain their current name as well, maybe just add FC to the end) will be the 19th team

As for the 20th...

- Ottawa - indifferent really...probably no

- St. Louis - same with Ottawa

- New York - no. Fix the NYRBs first...

- Las Vegas - nahhh...too risky.

My preference would be either

- Miami - MLS should really go back to Florida

- Minnesota

- a team in the Carolinas?

[Onyewu]

Firstly, Rudboy - I can't stop laughing.............keep on trying......

Secondly, GreenxxGreg, rancer890, Trackman 20, JasontheYank & SaintsCanada............I commend you on your patience and caring in explaining MLS' idiosyncracies

[Twellman24]

What I don't understand is how hateful some are...the MLS will not ever be the main football league, so why can't people just let Americans enjoy the game (the few that like football that is)? I just don't get it. If you don't like it, then don't watch it. Same way I don't watch the Eredivise because of the stupid European place playoffs.

[Blanchflower1]

What I don't understand is how hateful some are...the MLS will not ever be the main football league, so why can't people just let Americans enjoy the game (the few that like football that is)? I just don't get it. If you don't like it, then don't watch it. Same way I don't watch the Eredivise because of the stupid European place playoffs.

Well, in America, soccer has the POTENTIAL to be the number one sports in the country. At college level, soccer is one of the most popular sports in that nation. Women's soccer is thriving!!

[senorcoo]

Well, in America, soccer has the POTENTIAL to be the number one sports in the country. At college level, soccer is one of the most popular sports in that nation. Women's soccer is thriving!!

Is that why they had to shut one women's league down already? As a game, it may be thriving and in colleges it may be thriving, but as a professional sports league, it just isn't going to happen.

[Twellman24]

People don't seem to factor in the economic situation...if MLS stays strong through the next year, it will get better after the World Cup. I'm going to be in Chicago next summer so can't wait to see some Chicago Fire games

[*Injektilo]

Well, in America, soccer has the POTENTIAL to be the number one sports in the country. At college level, soccer is one of the most popular sports in that nation. Women's soccer is thriving!!

It's not in the American culture to follow the sport at the professional level. It's tough to explain to Europeans, but Americans take very different approaches to college sports and professional sports.

The MLS is growing and has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go. For those us living in North America, we are not under the illusion that it's the best in the world, but we also know it's the best football we can attend on a regular basis. Myself, I'll keep supporting the league in the hope that it can keep growing in stature and in quality. I'm looking forward for the Whitecaps to enter the league in 2011 - I already have my seasons tickets booked.

Senorcoo, we get it, you have your mind set on hoping for the league to fail. Either that, or I just don't see what you're trying to do here.

[samuelburrowsuk]

What I don't understand is how hateful some are...the MLS will not ever be the main football league, so why can't people just let Americans enjoy the game (the few that like football that is)? I just don't get it. If you don't like it, then don't watch it. Same way I don't watch the Eredivise because of the stupid European place playoffs.

Definitely agree with this. I think the US Association and the MLS are doing an excellent job in promoting awareness and quality of the game with a very niche product in an extremely competitive market.

[craigcwwe]

i have tried it before (fm07) with la galaxy and enjoyed it, the transfer system takes some getting used to though.

[senorcoo]

It's not in the American culture to follow the sport at the professional level. It's tough to explain to Europeans, but Americans take very different approaches to college sports and professional sports.

The MLS is growing and has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go. For those us living in North America, we are not under the illusion that it's the best in the world, but we also know it's the best football we can attend on a regular basis. Myself, I'll keep supporting the league in the hope that it can keep growing in stature and in quality. I'm looking forward for the Whitecaps to enter the league in 2011 - I already have my seasons tickets booked.

Senorcoo, we get it, you have your mind set on hoping for the league to fail. Either that, or I just don't see what you're trying to do here.

I don't have my mind set on hoping it will fail. Completely the opposite. I would love for the MLS to have started in a Euro-style with promotion, relegation, etc. Instead we were given crummy international player rules, salary cap, drafts. Let's not even mention all the efforts the league made to try and make the Metrostars the second coming of the Cosmos, by trying to bend the rules in their favor (it's one of the biggest markets, mind you) and that failed. England has one of the best football leagues in the world. If the people in charge of MLS had any clue, they would use English football as a blueprint. Let's not overlook the fact that the teams themselves don't even benefit from the sale of their players, the LEAGUE sells them. Ridiculous.

[68_Grandad_99]

On FM07 i had great success managing DC United. I won 4 MLS Championships, 2 of which i won the supporter's shield, US cup, the old North American Champions Cup and i even won the Club World Cup, beat Chelsea 1-0 in the semis and then Corinthians 12-0 in the final (no cheating, it was a freak result) I, in some ways abused the trade system, managed to accquire other team's leading players which weakened them and strengthened me! Three of my best peices of business though, came from England, Kris Gate who at the time was a right back in Newcastle's reserves, Chris Brown a striker from Sunderland who tore the league apart on an almost yearly basis and John White a defensive midfielder from Colchester. After a while most players were attracting the attention of some bigger European clubs such as Ajax FC Porto and i ended up having to break up a trophy winning team and rebuild. I quite liked the challenge of working within the Salary Cap parameters, made more aware of the financial side of things.

[wazzaflow10]

Teams finish last and pick first because they are inferior. It's a way of helping parity in a system. Do you see a team like Hull City ever competing with Man. United or Chelsea? As a supporter of a team like Hull City or Portsmouth, don't you want your team to win the Premier league? Without a draft, it is next to impossible. There is just too much money for the bigger teams.

In baseball, teams like the Florida Marlins can have the smallest payroll in the league and still win the World Series. Why? Because of the draft and the salary protection it gives to teams. In fact, teams that draft players have that player for at least several years at a league minimum salary. I have a feeling that the only reason this works is because of the monopoly the MLB holds over the professional baseball world. In soccer, this wouldn't work because there are too many leagues throughout the world that would take those players drafted by Premier League teams and pay them better. In this case, the MLB monopoly gives the fans more excitement (because even the smallest teams have a chance to win).

Anyway, I kind of reasoned by way out of thinking the Premier League should have a draft because even if they did, some other league would come in and steal their players. I guess the PL is destined to be a league headed by 4-5 teams forever.

Im not saying the draft doesnt work and i understand the concept but look at what is happening to baseball now stephen strasborg has never thrown a professional pitch in his life and asks for 15M theres no way that washington can realistically afford that and pay zimmerman too and have a competitive team. its like a league 2 team trying to sign a wonderkid on a 15M transfer. baseballs draft is becoming more and more like football, yes their salary is fixed for the first 3 years of service but after that its arbitration which if a guy like howard or pujols comes along smaller teams cant afford them and which is why after the marlins win a world series they blow the team up.

there will always be big teams and small teams, mostly because of the fans, no one cares about baseball in florida, therefore they have low gate revenue and a small tv contract, whereas boston and philly have larger contracts because their fans show up every game. (i exclude NY and LA because their tv market is big regardless). the MLS is trying to americanize football and i hate it, i think the whole system sucks, they've just started adding academies but teams can only take a few players from them the rest go to college, where they get worse because of stupid NCAA rules, ( which by the way is more anal than FIFA or UEFA).

Oh and by the way, international baseball players ones from central american and the carribean etc, there is no draft, teams can sign them right off the street.

[thundercracker]

I love managing in the MLS. The rules are har dto get used to at first, but once you get to know them it is a great league to manage in. Scottish football should really introduce some of the MLS rules such as salary cap and squad size.

FM09 is my most successful season as I started my last game that lasted 23 seasons at Toronto lasting 4 season and winning the MLS once. I returned about 2017 to manage New England where in 5 seasons I won the MLS 4 times, the US Open once and the CONCACAF champions league once.

[Onyewu]

England is far from the model we should follow.....many teams are in financial trouble and mostly non-English players playing in the Premier League. Look at how their Nat'l team has struggled to come close to winning anything since the new EPL arrived in the early 90's.

[thundercracker]

I agree with Onyewu. If anyone knows anything about the NASL in the seventies where the American soccer scene was similar to the current day Premier League will realise why the MLS has been smart to use such rules and structures.

Anyone who thinks the MLS rules are nonsense really should watch the documentary Once in a Lifetime to understand why they exist. It is a fantastic documentary that tells the history of the greatest American soccer team ever, the NewYork Cosmos, a team which at the same time has Pele and Franz Beckenbauer.

[Jack Rudd]

The national team wasn't exactly making the world quake before the formation of the Premier League either. One major semi-final and three major quarter-finals in the eight tournaments since isn't a bad return.

[Scab]

If it weren't for the local quirks and cultural peculiarities of the different leagues and their teams they'd frankly be quite bland to watch. Watching the EPL is not like watching the Italian Serie A is not like watching La Liga is not like watching the Russian RFPL is not like watching Campeonato Brasileiro Série A... you get the point. Looking at what other countries are doing and how their systems work is all good, but simply imitating them is not. The MLS differs more than most but are doing things their way and reaching relative domestic success with consideration to soccer's role in the US, so what's there to not like, really? Casually dictating what they should be doing from a completely different perspective half-way across the globe seems a bit much.

I say just go with whatever works for the local fans, soccer in the US is always going to have a US flavor and there's nothing wrong with that. Trying to be something else is what would truly not make sense.

[phantom1998]

Another positive step for MLS is following FIFA international dates for 2010 season. I remember TFC basically couldn't play their starting XI because they were all playing internationals...we had to sign amateur players for the game, and our head scout (Tim Regan) played too. :o

LOL which game was this? I don't recall seeing this, maybe i was away that weekend or something.

[The Sean]

So as an uncultured American boob, I will try my best to match wits with some of you. I have several things to respond to here so let me briefly draw your attention to what they include; the original intent/purpose of MLS, the intent of the draft system in MLS, the talent pool of American athletes and the geography that dictates our schedule. Bear with me and respond with thought and I will entertain discussing these issues with you.

First, the original intent or purpose for putting MLS in place was to secure the 1994 FIFA World Cup. Our bid was accepted only because we "promised" to create another national soccer league that would promote the game in North America. Naturally, looking at the failed models of both indoor and outdoor soccer in the U.S., the promoters of MLS (mostly the late Lamar Hunt, who originally owned the Columbus Crew, Kansas City Wizards and the Kansas City Chiefs of the NFL) decided that the BEST approach at that time would be to model a professional American soccer league after other professional leagues in America. Think back to the early days of MLS and you will remember that we used to implement a playoff series between teams. I do not remember if it was best-of-three or best-of-five but it followed the playoff model used in ALL other professional American sports. MLS has evolved over the years and will continue to do so. It will likely never mirror an English model as it is NOT intended for an English audience. It is intended for an American audience who was raised on tackle-football, baseball, basketball and hockey (in that order). The rules of play and structure of the league need to be agreeable to any American Tom, Dick or Harry who happens to flip through the channels and catch a game on ESPN. This is because those of us who are die-hard soccer fans will follow the sport regardless; so the targeted audience is those who might be willing to watch the game on TV or take their family to see a game in person. Also, MLS exists to allow Americans to play soccer at a professional level, thereby improving our talent pool for the international stage (regardless of how many American players leave MLS to play in Europe). This was the add-on argument about why we needed to host the World Cup; which would develop interest in the game in America; which would generate more young people playing; which would allow more Americans to play professionally in our country.

Second, the reasons the draft exists in American soccer has been discussed ad-nauseum here. Most are good arguments that support why the game is built the way it is here. Ultimately, more than parity, our draft system (for ALL American, not Canadian) is built around our educational system. In this country, with compulsory education until at least age 16, a person cannot be drafted to play professional sports in America until they are past the age of compulsory attendance or have graduated from high school. This is a critical piece because it shapes the way that Americans look at high school sports, college sports, drafting and professional sports. There is an expectation that you will progress through these ranks to get to the point of playing professionally. However, to do this means that a player will likely be 22 or 23 years old before he has left college and can be drafted. In fact, we have extremely strict rules in this country about how old a person must be and/or how long it has been since they graduated from high school before they can be eligible for the draft. The most notorious case was Maurice Clarett of the NFL who tried to enter the draft before he was legally allowed to do so. He lost his court case and had to sit out until he was 'of age.' The bottom line for this is that Americans are disgusted at the thought of a 16 year-old boy quitting school to join a soccer academy and receiving his education from tutors alone. Whether or not you agree with this sentiment is moot. It is what the American people have decided. Ultimately, drafting in sports is a democratic way of doling out talent.

Third, the talent pool for American athletes is stretched thin among many popular professional sports. We have the aforementioned big team sports, but let's not forget the likes of golf, tennis, track-and-field, etc. As part of our brash, first-among-equals view of the world, Americans expect to be among the very best in each of these sports. I am not here to debate the morality of it. Personally, it doesn't matter to me (except at the Olympics). I can tell you that I was (like most Americans I knew growing up) expected to participate in more than one sport. I played soccer and baseball; soccer for nineteen years until my knees could no longer take it and baseball for seven. I played sports year-round. There is no pan-ultimate sport for American boys to play. We are encouraged to play them all or at least play the one our dad played. Once we have found our niche, so to speak, we are expected to play that sport more intently. This is in contrast with other countries where these opportunities might not exist in such great supply. The bottom line here is that American athletes can be found in ALL sports and are NOT confined to one sport.

Finally, our geography dictates the time of year that our soccer schedule is played. People will say that the NBA, NFL and NHL play in the winter. Well, duh. I know...I have lived here my whole life. The only one that plays outside is the NFL and those guys are f***ing crazy. I know this too because my brother used to coach college football (American football) and those guys (as a group and not on an individual basis) are the biggest, strongest, dumbest and most foolish people that I have come across. Thank God I don't have to tackle them. Anyway, the weather for Americans is more agreeable to play in the heat than in the cold. We are used to playing in the heat. We do it all summer long. If it doesn't hit 100 degrees (F) then it ain't hot. Also, when trying to encourage new fans, it is easier to get them to come see a game in nice 70 - 80 degree weather than when it is freezing. Casual fans do not sit in freezing cold weather. The bottom line here is that soccer is played when it is most convenient for the casual fan (keep in mind, this is the targeted American audience) to feel comfortable attending. This translates to warmer weather, which by our geography, puts it during the summer. Oh, before I get flamed about how cold it is in Europe (duh!), you are willing to sit in the cold because you are a die-hard fan, not a casual fan.

Anyway, I felt I had to put in 'my two cents.' I love MLS. I love the European game. I love the Mexican game. I especially love the World Cup. I play multiple games on FM at the same time. One of them is ALWAYS in MLS as my forever-loved Kansas City Wizards.

[rudboy]

@ The Sean. Thanks for all the info. i felt like reading a book.

The question is do you play MLS on FM and if so have you had a successful career?

because untill now all the people who try to play MLS quit after like max 2years.

[Nicki]

I have had a long MLS career in both FM2008 and FM2009, I think I played like 10 and 8 seasons, both with the Galaxy.

[thundercracker]

As I mentioned earlier I had two spells in the MLS on fm09 totaling 9 seasons. By my recent standards they are long stays as I have bored of most of the leagues structures that fm due to lack of variety, but the unique format of the MLS gave me more enjoyment. I need to have various countries structures running as I like to try new leagues and try to keep the game as fresh as possible.

[superbocksuperstar]

So as an uncultured American boob, I will try my best to match wits with some of you. I have several things to respond to here so let me briefly draw your attention to what they include; the original intent/purpose of MLS, the intent of the draft system in MLS, the talent pool of American athletes and the geography that dictates our schedule. Bear with me and respond with thought and I will entertain discussing these issues with you.

First, the original intent or purpose for putting MLS in place was to secure the 1994 FIFA World Cup. Our bid was accepted only because we "promised" to create another national soccer league that would promote the game in North America. Naturally, looking at the failed models of both indoor and outdoor soccer in the U.S., the promoters of MLS (mostly the late Lamar Hunt, who originally owned the Columbus Crew, Kansas City Wizards and the Kansas City Chiefs of the NFL) decided that the BEST approach at that time would be to model a professional American soccer league after other professional leagues in America. Think back to the early days of MLS and you will remember that we used to implement a playoff series between teams. I do not remember if it was best-of-three or best-of-five but it followed the playoff model used in ALL other professional American sports. MLS has evolved over the years and will continue to do so. It will likely never mirror an English model as it is NOT intended for an English audience. It is intended for an American audience who was raised on tackle-football, baseball, basketball and hockey (in that order). The rules of play and structure of the league need to be agreeable to any American Tom, Dick or Harry who happens to flip through the channels and catch a game on ESPN. This is because those of us who are die-hard soccer fans will follow the sport regardless; so the targeted audience is those who might be willing to watch the game on TV or take their family to see a game in person. Also, MLS exists to allow Americans to play soccer at a professional level, thereby improving our talent pool for the international stage (regardless of how many American players leave MLS to play in Europe). This was the add-on argument about why we needed to host the World Cup; which would develop interest in the game in America; which would generate more young people playing; which would allow more Americans to play professionally in our country.

Second, the reasons the draft exists in American soccer has been discussed ad-nauseum here. Most are good arguments that support why the game is built the way it is here. Ultimately, more than parity, our draft system (for ALL American, not Canadian) is built around our educational system. In this country, with compulsory education until at least age 16, a person cannot be drafted to play professional sports in America until they are past the age of compulsory attendance or have graduated from high school. This is a critical piece because it shapes the way that Americans look at high school sports, college sports, drafting and professional sports. There is an expectation that you will progress through these ranks to get to the point of playing professionally. However, to do this means that a player will likely be 22 or 23 years old before he has left college and can be drafted. In fact, we have extremely strict rules in this country about how old a person must be and/or how long it has been since they graduated from high school before they can be eligible for the draft. The most notorious case was Maurice Clarett of the NFL who tried to enter the draft before he was legally allowed to do so. He lost his court case and had to sit out until he was 'of age.' The bottom line for this is that Americans are disgusted at the thought of a 16 year-old boy quitting school to join a soccer academy and receiving his education from tutors alone. Whether or not you agree with this sentiment is moot. It is what the American people have decided. Ultimately, drafting in sports is a democratic way of doling out talent.

Third, the talent pool for American athletes is stretched thin among many popular professional sports. We have the aforementioned big team sports, but let's not forget the likes of golf, tennis, track-and-field, etc. As part of our brash, first-among-equals view of the world, Americans expect to be among the very best in each of these sports. I am not here to debate the morality of it. Personally, it doesn't matter to me (except at the Olympics). I can tell you that I was (like most Americans I knew growing up) expected to participate in more than one sport. I played soccer and baseball; soccer for nineteen years until my knees could no longer take it and baseball for seven. I played sports year-round. There is no pan-ultimate sport for American boys to play. We are encouraged to play them all or at least play the one our dad played. Once we have found our niche, so to speak, we are expected to play that sport more intently. This is in contrast with other countries where these opportunities might not exist in such great supply. The bottom line here is that American athletes can be found in ALL sports and are NOT confined to one sport.

Finally, our geography dictates the time of year that our soccer schedule is played. People will say that the NBA, NFL and NHL play in the winter. Well, duh. I know...I have lived here my whole life. The only one that plays outside is the NFL and those guys are f***ing crazy. I know this too because my brother used to coach college football (American football) and those guys (as a group and not on an individual basis) are the biggest, strongest, dumbest and most foolish people that I have come across. Thank God I don't have to tackle them. Anyway, the weather for Americans is more agreeable to play in the heat than in the cold. We are used to playing in the heat. We do it all summer long. If it doesn't hit 100 degrees (F) then it ain't hot. Also, when trying to encourage new fans, it is easier to get them to come see a game in nice 70 - 80 degree weather than when it is freezing. Casual fans do not sit in freezing cold weather. The bottom line here is that soccer is played when it is most convenient for the casual fan (keep in mind, this is the targeted American audience) to feel comfortable attending. This translates to warmer weather, which by our geography, puts it during the summer. Oh, before I get flamed about how cold it is in Europe (duh!), you are willing to sit in the cold because you are a die-hard fan, not a casual fan.

Anyway, I felt I had to put in 'my two cents.' I love MLS. I love the European game. I love the Mexican game. I especially love the World Cup. I play multiple games on FM at the same time. One of them is ALWAYS in MLS as my forever-loved Kansas City Wizards.

Great post.

I personally love that different countries play the game in different ways.

Critising the American way because it isn't "European" and that they should follow our way. What about Brazil they don't play "our" way, neither does Argentina, what about them?

America is a different beast to us culturally when it comes to sports. They are happy and used to that system, it isn't perfect but then ours isn't either. Over here our clubs have now become playthings, how can that ever be considered a good thing I don't know. It is a long term project the MLS and results aren't expected over night and they do have a very very long way to go. I hope they stick to it though and that it grows.

OT a bit The Sean but are you a Bronco? If you are I hope you enjoyed seeing Elvis and the D destroy Rivers on Monday as much as I did.

[The Sean]

@ The Sean. Thanks for all the info. i felt like reading a book.

The question is do you play MLS on FM and if so have you had a successful career?

because untill now all the people who try to play MLS quit after like max 2years.

Nothing wrong with reading a book, friend. Also, at the end of my post, I stated my FM situation. I play MLS all the time. All the time...

[GreenxxGreg]

Firstly, Rudboy - I can't stop laughing.............keep on trying......

Secondly, GreenxxGreg, rancer890, Trackman 20, JasontheYank & SaintsCanada............I commend you on your patience and caring in explaining MLS' idiosyncracies

Hey... somebody's gotta defend our quirky little league!

I hope to see you in a lot of the post-release MLS-related threads, then.

When i'm on the forums, i'm always on the prowl for MLS threads. Can be difficult to find active ones, though ;P

When '10 comes out, we MLS supporters should get an online game going. Now THAT would be sweet.

[Twellman24]

I'm all in for that! We should create a thread and get together to play online. Central Time here.

[Seattle4eva]

I personally love managing in the MLS ive managed for upto 25 seasons in FM07, 08 & 09 and i will do so in FM10

the rules arnt that compicated to me every time a new Football Manager comes out i spend about 3 days getting used to the new features SI have put into the game and then i'll start a long-term game

the designated player rules and forign player rules arn't hard to get past as this is a team you could for example possibly have

Francisco Guillermo Ochoa

Frank Simek

Julius James

Oguchi Onyewu

Chance Myers

David Beckham

Landon Donovan

Freddy Adu

Jeff Larentowicz

Eddie Johnson

Jozy Altidore

im not saying that it will be possible to talk some of these players into going to the MLS

but that would be a winning team and its way within the forign player rules and contract rules because there mostly american

the only hard part that ive found is that on the game there is too many injuries in the MLS

[Twellman24]

You guys are getting me in the mood to start another save lol

[Whoofe]

I try to be a manager in MLS but frankly I quite after 2 month. I don't like their transfer rules and also other thing?

Anyone like it?

yes, i very much enjoy managing in the MLS in FM09. i am in year #4, i won the MLS championship in year 3 as chicago fire.

the only problem i have encountered so far, is loaning players to the minor teams like minnesota or chicago PDL means those players languish and lose fitness because those teams seem to have no games to play other than friendlys and the US cup. once the US cup is over those teams have nothing to do, and my loaned players sit idle

i am hoping this is changed for FM2010

[grumpus]

long, informative post about American sports/soccer

Another angle that must be understood is the basic financial structure of the leagues in American sports. Unlike the United systems in Europe, professional sports leagues in the USA are single corporate entities - the teams themselves are only FRANCHISES.

This is absolutely critical to keep in mind, and it answers why the systems are so different.

I'm not positive, and don't want to research it, but I believe the MLS operates the same way: it's one big company trying to make money through various franchises. The MLS has a vested interest in making sure all the franchises remain afloat and able to compete, at least theoretically.

This is why American sports leagues almost always have drafts and salary caps, and not an open transfer system. The FA couldn't care less who suffers financial troubles or spirals off into a badly-managed tailspin through the leagues. There are more teams from the leagues coming up from below to replace them.

The American sports leagues are separated and not at all structured this way; if a professional sports team in the USA fails, there are no lower leagues. It gets bailed out by the league, bought by a new owner, moves to another city, or goes bankrupt and disappears. The latter rarely happens, though.

I've discussed this difference at length with a good friend, as it's fascinating to compare the two systems. Both systems work well for different contexts, and both make for fun managing.

All that said, I don't manage MLS in game. You can't get big talent there, and not being able to buy and sell players the European way is frustrating once you're used to it - it's actually much more capitalistic and mercenary than the protecting-all-our-franchises American system, oddly enough.

[thundercracker]

For those of you having problems understanding how the to play in the MLS, I found a guide online a year ago that I found really useful. The name was MLS quick guide – FM09 By Aljarov. I have tried searching online for it but I am having no luck finding and working links. It is a 9 page guide that is simplified for easy understanding about the league. I found it a fantastic help.

If anyone wants to read this guide can recommend any free and no hassle places where I can upload it.

[Jason the Yank]

A major professional sport drawing 16000 people and you call that thriving? My local AAA baseball team draws 10000.

Er, yeah, we do. MLS' average attendance is comparable to the NBA and NHL. The problem really is in television numbers, but even those aren't that far off the NHL.

We really don't have a "big four" in this country, we have a big "three-and-a-half." (and it pains me to say that, being an NHL fan).

The other problem is our soccer market is so fractured. The Italian-Americans want to watch Serie A, the Mexicans want to watch FMF, some Anglo-Americans want to watch MLS, some Anglo-Americans would rather watch the Premiership, the Irish-Americans want to watch the Scottish and English leagues, etc.

The rule that I find most ridiculous are the extreme limits on international players. The MLS tries so hard to promote good young American players to the public and it works, until a European comes along and offers them some cash at which point they hock them like a piece of jewelry at a pawn shop (see Clint Dempsey, Jozy Altidore, Freddy Adu, etc.). If they are "thriving" so much, why don't they turn down the money and keep some of these players together so that A.) fans can get a little attached to their teams and B.) the quality will naturally improve by players staying together. The draft is a joke (especially in FM). Once again, parity may work in American football, but in soccer/football, all it serves to do is make a bunch of generic teams.

Well, the original goal of MLS was to give a place for American players to play. It's kind of gotten away from that with the Canadian expansion.

But American players want to go to Europe (as do Argentine players, Brazilian players, etc.) because you can get more money. You can have a thriving niche market for your homebrew beer, but you're not going to compete with the money available to Budweiser, Coors, etc.

Ask Taylor Twellman, Shalrie Joseph, or Pablo Mastroeni about how readily the league sells players to Europe.

Fans don't care about the draft getting American players in the league if a vast majority of them aren't very good. To say the quality of play isn't great, is a massive understatement. Watching MLS, we're not going to see Barca? No kidding. It's like watching a bunch of 10-year olds kicking a football around. Painful, really. And of course it's improving - when you are terrible at something and practice it over and over, you are bound to improve. The only international players that will come here are those South American players looking for more exposure than they are getting in their own leagues or European players trying to cash one more big paycheck. It isn't going to be a top tier league in 500 years, never mind 10 to 15. As a second tier league, I would argue that there are plenty of other second tier leagues that are better, so at BEST, they are a third tier league. The schedule is impossible to avoid, because with so many other major sports in America, soccer is always going to have to compete with one or two sports at a time and it just isn't going to beat them out for the fans $$$. Period.

Now I know you're talking ****. Pretty much every English player who's come over here says the level is about on par with the Championship. Freddie Ljungberg thinks Seattle would do well in Eredivisie. No, it's not the Premiership or Serie A. But neither are most of the leagues around the world. But it's only in the US where you seem to get people actively hoping the domestic league fails.

You do have a point regarding the draft, which is that we've figured out the college system is not providing the players needed to win on the world level. That's mainly because of the NCAA limiting the amount of practices and games. It's also why MLS has encouraged its teams to set up youth academies. Altidore was a product of Red Bull's academy. DC United, Houston, and a couple others have started to see results from their academies. No, they haven't produced a Messi, or a Zidane. But those are once in a generation players anyway.

[Lebronfeldt]

I played MLS for 5 seasons and lost the MLS Cup all 5 times so I moved on.

They I look at MLS is that it is like registering players for a competition; you have to have so many home grown players and then add on a salary limit. You eventually have to get rid of some of your better players to meet the restrictions, then rely on cheaper and less skilled players. This sucks.

American sports leagues are socialistic...they also get special exemption from anti-trust laws.

Parity stinks....the leagues/owners just want to keep the playing field level so they can make money. In the parity world bad teams can play other bad teams. the game might be close but the level of play can be horrible.

The teams are franchises all under 1 entity...it's like having a McDonalds in different cities.

In real life MLS needs to get rid of the draft. They are losing some of their younger players to clubs outside of MLS, mainly Europe.

[Lebronfeldt]

I think it's funny that kid these days can pick what high school he wants to go to. then pick what college he wants to go. But when he turns pro he has to go to a team that drafts him. If he doesn't like the team he his selected by it's just to bad. The player should just be happy he was selected. This worked great back in the day but it's just idiotic in the current sports world.

[Gooner32]

Can't say I've tried managing in the MLS to be honest, but looking at the comments made about it over the years I doubt I'd last 10 seconds.

I was frustrated managing in Russia by the regulations about foreign players which caused me to give up on it so god only knows how I'd cope in a league much more complicated. That said, a long term Russian game is quite tempting because the rules kind of force you to develop home grown talent which could make for an interesting game. MLS just looks really complicated from what I've read and I doubt I'll waste my time having a go at it.

[tpsteed]

This is a great thread. I didn't realize how many Americans actually play FM. For the most part, the explanations of the league have been right on. The MLS is doing exactly what it needs to do to build the game in the US. Some other things I wanted to add:

1. Legally, MLS is not single-entity, they initially tried to structure that way to avoid anti-trust/monopoly laws against anti-competitive actions by the individual owners as it pertained to players salaries. They lost that legal argument, but the legal framework defined the professional soccer market as the world, so free market competition from the rest of the world allows the MLS owners and the league to stop free agency and keep salaries below market demand. Other professional sports leagues in the United States are not single entity, they simply share profits on certain gross income and most have restricted free agency.

2. In reality, they still operate as single entity when it comes to player contracts except for designated players. The rest of the players contract and registration is held by the league, that's why current players cannot free transfer to other MLS teams, but can to foreign teams.

3. The salary cap for most American leagues works like this (or something close to it). They find out what every teams gross income is, average it, and place a maximum team salary between 60%-70% of that number (NFL, NBA, NHL also have a minimum team salary at 40%, but MLS has no minimum). So for the MLS, if the average income league-wide is $4M, 60% is $2.4M. Obviously, a team like LA is making considerably more, so they can afford to shell out an additional $6.5M on Beckham, hence the DP. Btw, FM does a great job of raising the salary cap a small percentage each year.

4. Any rumors about changing to league to a winter schedule is simply the league (Don Garber) trying to appease Sepp Blatter to help out our World Cup bid.

5. MLS avg attendance this year is just under 16,000. That is down 4% from last year, but considering the recession, it is a solid average. The low team, FC Dallas, gets just under 10K while the high team, Seattle, gets just above 30K. (Premier League Average - 34K; Dutch Eredivisie Avg - 19-20K)

6. The goal of the MLS is to become something like the Eredivisie. Build world class youth facilities; be a show case market for top young talent from South America, Africa, and the United States; and provide a place for stars to play near the end of their contracts in a low-pressure environment where they can raise their families without being recognized at all times on the street and be mentors to the young guys.

7. And yes, I always start my FM in the MLS, cuz that is my domestic league. I also leave after several seasons, but I leave every team after I have accomplished everything I can with them, just like any real manager would unless he was at a top five club in the world. In four seasons at the Galaxy, I won the regular season 3/4, MLS playoffs 2/4, US Open Cup 2/4, Superliga Finalists 2/3 (Our Uefa Cup versus Mexico), Champions League Winner 1/2, and lost to Barcelona 3-2 in the Club World Cup Semi-Final. When Aston Villa came calling I was ready to leave.

Anyways, I couldn't resist weighing in on an MLS/Football Manager thread. I cover the Red Bulls for Goal.com and play Football Manager all the time. And before everybody starts hating me for Goal.com, I am an unpaid law student who gets into MLS games for free, and I have no control over their website. Also, I'd be interested in an MLS league if somebody starts it.

[Coasterkoa]

MLS is one of the most interesting leagues to play in simply because its not as cut and dry as "buy the best players" or "buy a ton of youth players and at least a few will develop" as you can do in other nations. Its hard to keep a winning team together (although in FM09 hardly anyone asked for raises, so it really wasn't that difficult) and you do have to rely on poor players at certain points in your season, so finding the youth who will play for peanuts while still contributing is key.

I think it keeps things fresh and interesting. I guess its easy for me to say because i know the rules so well and have been following the league since its inception.

[Lebronfeldt]

LOL which game was this? I don't recall seeing this, maybe i was away that weekend or something.

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20080906&content_id=186005&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

here is the game.

"The Reds were missing nine regulars to international duty, thus leaving a skeleton crew on hand to fill out the lineup. The starting XI included three defenders signed just this week by TFC: 39-year-old Rick Titus of the Canadian Soccer League's Italia Shooters (who was once with the Colorado Rapids), Diaz Kambere of the USL's Vancouver Whitecaps and MLS veteran Tim Regan, who was actually retired as an active player after being released by New York after last season and was working for Toronto as a scout."

[waiterboy006]

Thanks to everyone who have posted thoughful insights (whether negative or positive about MLS). I fould it decently difficult to really get into MLS in FM 09. But since I started as a virtual unknown, it seemed like a good way to get my spurs such as it is. After 4 seasons managing the Galaxy, I moved on to Reggina (sp), bringing them back into Serie A. Then off to Bordeaux to get them back to the top, and finally into the EPL to coach Aston Villa. Thankfully Aston Villa had several former Arsenal players, so I did quite well.

As a big fan of the LA Kings (NHL), I definitely see the similarities between MLS and the NHL. Similar fan base size, and in many ways similar financial situation. As a rabid soccer fan, I am not expecting MLS to become as popular as the NFL, but they provide casual followers of football (soccer) a decent game to watch. I'll never mistake an MLS side for my Arsenal, but as a fan, I am proud of how far the game has come in this country.

[MarkyMark]

In real life MLS needs to get rid of the draft. They are losing some of their younger players to clubs outside of MLS, mainly Europe.

How would getting rid of the draft stop them from losing "some of their younger players to clubs outside of MLS"? And how many players per year are you talking about? They mainly go for the money, the superior player development, and/or the experience of being a professional soccer player in Europe. The USA and MLS can't offer any of that anyway.

[senorcoo]

Parity stinks....the leagues/owners just want to keep the playing field level so they can make money. In the parity world bad teams can play other bad teams. the game might be close but the level of play can be horrible.

The teams are franchises all under 1 entity...it's like having a McDonalds in different cities.

In real life MLS needs to get rid of the draft. They are losing some of their younger players to clubs outside of MLS, mainly Europe.

EXACTLY! Why do you think there are so many playoff games? To increase the intensity? To promote the game? BA-LONEY!! It's all about $$$ (sub in pounds, rubels, euro, etc). And talk about a conflict of interest - every team is a franchisee of the MLS. It's insane! The draft is awful and parity is a ploy for the owners/league/whoever the heck runs the league to get paid.

And to the guy who posted that Freddie Ljungberg said that Seattle could play in the Championship - of course he's going to say that when he PLAYS for them! What is he supposed to say? "We're pants. We couldn't win a match in the Blue Square?" I could get 10 of my friends together and play in the Championship. It doesn't mean many results are going to go our way, tho :-)

[senorcoo]

MLS just looks really complicated from what I've read and I doubt I'll waste my time having a go at it.

And the best part is that its really complicated for no other reason that to say "Hey, Europe! Look at us! We're playing soccer differently than you!"

[Twellman24]

EXACTLY! Why do you think there are so many playoff games? To increase the intensity? To promote the game? BA-LONEY!! It's all about $$$ (sub in pounds, rubels, euro, etc). And talk about a conflict of interest - every team is a franchisee of the MLS. It's insane! The draft is awful and parity is a ploy for the owners/league/whoever the heck runs the league to get paid.

And to the guy who posted that Freddie Ljungberg said that Seattle could play in the Championship - of course he's going to say that when he PLAYS for them! What is he supposed to say? "We're pants. We couldn't win a match in the Blue Square?" I could get 10 of my friends together and play in the Championship. It doesn't mean many results are going to go our way, tho :-)

Hold on, I'm still trying to find something that makes sense in your post. I'll find something eventually.

[Grimoz]

I tried it but I hated it, too many restrictions.

[senorcoo]

4. Any rumors about changing to league to a winter schedule is simply the league (Don Garber) trying to appease Sepp Blatter to help out our World Cup bid.

5. MLS avg attendance this year is just under 16,000. That is down 4% from last year, but considering the recession, it is a solid average. The low team, FC Dallas, gets just under 10K while the high team, Seattle, gets just above 30K. (Premier League Average - 34K; Dutch Eredivisie Avg - 19-20K)

6. The goal of the MLS is to become something like the Eredivisie. Build world class youth facilities; be a show case market for top young talent from South America, Africa, and the United States; and provide a place for stars to play near the end of their contracts in a low-pressure environment where they can raise their families without being recognized at all times on the street and be mentors to the young guys.

7. And yes, I always start my FM in the MLS, cuz that is my domestic league. I also leave after several seasons, but I leave every team after I have accomplished everything I can with them, just like any real manager would unless he was at a top five club in the world. In four seasons at the Galaxy, I won the regular season 3/4, MLS playoffs 2/4, US Open Cup 2/4, Superliga Finalists 2/3 (Our Uefa Cup versus Mexico), Champions League Winner 1/2, and lost to Barcelona 3-2 in the Club World Cup Semi-Final. When Aston Villa came calling I was ready to leave.

Anyways, I couldn't resist weighing in on an MLS/Football Manager thread. I cover the Red Bulls for Goal.com and play Football Manager all the time. And before everybody starts hating me for Goal.com, I am an unpaid law student who gets into MLS games for free, and I have no control over their website. Also, I'd be interested in an MLS league if somebody starts it.

4 - Yeah, tell Sepp that winter schedule would work great in New England. Imagine playing football in January and February in between snowstorms.

5 - The attendances are also skewed for MLS because Seattle is a new team and the ticket prices in MLS are pretty cheap. So, of course a recession is going to have little impact when the product is sold cheaply.

6 - Wait, I thought the point of MLS was to make the game thrive? Now you're saying its to provide a quite retirement community for the stars of Europe?