Del Piero cant tutor? Player or tutor mechanic issue?

So i have signed Del Piero for Liverpool to tutor some youngsters.

Remembered past FM games, i set his squad status to First team.

Now when i select Development>Tutoring i get the message: The players importance is too low to offer tutoring. It stays like this after a few weeks too.

So is this a Del Piero issue, or some new tutoring thing. Last FM i played was FM13 and all you needed was for your tutor to be 24 or over, have a squad status above backup and a good rep.

Have also noticed this (also FM13 was my last version too before this one), and have a few players who are not important enough. Be nice to know what the criteria might be for this now.

He didn't want to tutor anybody in my Hibs team either.

Its not just Del Piero either it seems.

Marcos Senna also says the same.

Im guessing some Tutoring parameters have changed.

My guess is that either his CA or his World/Current Rep is too low relative to the rest of the team. At this point of his career, Del Piero is a fringe player at best on a top half EPL team.

I don't think there is a logical solution here, considering current rep/CA/squad status is an incomplete view of a player's ability to influence youngsters. Past greats who have deteriorated should still have some power, but the rep system in the game doesn't really show that.

Can he tutor youth team players? He should still be able to do that.

Can he tutor youth team players? He should still be able to do that.

No, cant tutor anyone.

I've tested his squad status on every options, continued a day, and looking at his tutoring options and every time is just says: The players importance is too low to offer tutoring.

Its rather annoying as i like to develop youth, and hes a great tutor also with curls ball.

This is a really silly change IMO.

Damn that sucks, I guess it's not that realistic to bring in someone just to tutor though. I think if you played him in the first team he would become available and can probably tutor players at his club in India if he is still playing there.

I have him tutoring players at Charlton Athletic in the first season.

I have him tutoring players at Charlton Athletic in the first season.

Hmm, thats interesting.

Looking at the editor, it seems his rep is still higher than Liverpool youngsters so im stumped as to why he cant tutor.

These undocumented changes dont help things

I have posted on this issue on numerous occasions whilst playing FM15 so I am pretty disappointed to see it unchanged in FM16.

The flip side of this issue was that you could not tell if a young player would be able to be tutored BEFORE you signed him as some of them immediately had a status suggesting they were already too established in the first team to be tutored by even key players. I don't know yet if this has changed in the new game.

I love player development and I don't mind the changes so long as I can understand them and react to them.

Can someone from SI please explain this properly?

I love player development and I don't mind the changes so long as I can understand them and react to them.

Can someone from SI please explain this properly?

Oh i agree with this sooo much.

We just want to understand.

I'm pleased this is the case, signing an ageing player just so they could tutor others at the club always struck me as being an exploit.

I'm pleased this is the case, signing an ageing player just so they could tutor others at the club always struck me as being an exploit.

I don't see how that can be an exploit. Would it be an exploit if Juventus had kept him and he mentored their young players?

One of the bonuses of signing a player with his experience should be the motoring he will offer youngsters.

There is no way Del Piero can join a side like Liverpool and get any kind of "power" there, maybe in the bottom 1/3 of PRM teams he could tutor, but I'm not sure he could actually perform well enough on the pitch to even get enough status to tutor for those. The League has way to high rep for him.

You prolly have to be in a club that's in a league well below the Italian League he left. I Think I could use him to tutor in FC Twente (signed as key player), but he wasn't really strong enough to be on the pitch for even them.

I don't see how that can be an exploit. Would it be an exploit if Juventus had kept him and he mentored their young players?

One of the bonuses of signing a player with his experience should be the motoring he will offer youngsters.

The issue with FM it is still too easy to pick up these former top players on cheap backup player contracts & that's what creates the exploit.

I have him at Sheffield Wednesday and he's quite happy to tutor for me. He's only on a back-up contract for me too and hasn't featured once in the first team since joining and I'm in October now. Tbh it's probably an issue with the game that he's not complaining or unhappy yet.

Whether its an exploit is up for debate.

What i'd like to know is what the parameters are for players being able to tutor as its obviously changed since FM13 ( the last FM i played).

Its fine if its a intended change, but yes i want to buy older players to tutor my youngsters, theres nothing wrong with that. But i would like to know before i waste money on someone if there are able to tutor.

Not a directly comparable scenario. Signing an ageing or even past it superstar just to tutor players is an exploit, irl I'd expect a board to veto such a deal unless they were coming in on a coaching contract.

The issue with FM it is still too easy to pick up these former top players on cheap backup player contracts & that's what creates the exploit.

Your telling me if Liverpool signed him as a backup/for commercial reasons, a 16 year old kid would say "No, I'm not gonna work with a legend of the game, he's just a bit past it for Liverpool so I can't respect him". But if that same 16 year old and Del Piero signed for Sheffield Wednesday instead, he's love the oppourtunity to work with him? It's illogical.

I don't see how that can be an exploit. Would it be an exploit if Juventus had kept him and he mentored their young players?

One of the bonuses of signing a player with his experience should be the motoring he will offer youngsters.

So how often does this actually happen? That is the real point. How many clubs bring in an ageing player, paying him a high wage not to play but to "mentor" young players? Isn't that what the coaching staff is for to be fair? I like the tutoring if it is a player on your club, already playing minutes, and has an actual useful role- not some old lag you sign only to stick in the stiffs just to pass on some professionalism or determination to a young player. At that point it does become something of an exploit.

So how often does this actually happen? That is the real point. How many clubs bring in an ageing player, paying him a high wage not to play but to "mentor" young players? Isn't that what the coaching staff is for to be fair? I like the tutoring if it is a player on your club, already playing minutes, and has an actual useful role- not some old lag you sign only to stick in the stiffs just to pass on some professionalism or determination to a young player. At that point it does become something of an exploit.

Tbf the whole notion of tutoring becomes illogical when you put it like that. I mean, does it really happen this way in real life, does a player ever get asked to specifically take an individual under their wing? And even if it does happen I bet it doesn't happen anywhere near the amount of times the average FM player will use it. Young players can pick stuff up by watching what the more senior players do and training alongside them will obviously mean some of their more positive qualities would rub off onto the youngsters, as would some of the bad. I much prefer the new model of the squad personality having an impact on a young player's development. My squad has a determined personality and already, within just a couple of months, I'm seeing the determination attribute rise in a handful of younger players. I think this is a much more realistic method than instructing one senior player to take one specific youngster under their wing and tutor them and them alone. Surely a manager wants his more influential senior players benefiting all of the younger players, not just one individual?

I'd get rid of the old tutoring model altogether.

Tutoring in general is an exploit really if you know how to do it well. I don't mind the concept of tutoring, but there should be something that makes it harder to basically create a squad of choir boys. Also I've never understood why tutoring covers pressure. I can see how a professional approach and ambition can be contagious in a certain way, but I don't think a bottler becomes Cool Hand Luke just by hanging around him. Similarly I don't think Cool Hand Luke becomes a bottler by hanging around Nervous Nelly.

Also I think Weezer is spot on. It should be more about the collective qualities of the squad, and also seeing what the manager responds to. If the youngsters see that the manager responds well to hard trainers and picks them, then they'll pick up their training intensity accordingly. If they see the manager just picks players regardless of what they show in training, they won't see it necessary to train hard and just look to get by on natural ability alone.

Ok.. So I have an idea to prevent things like this happening.

I also love to tutor and develop youngsters and I'm willing to admit I've always used this so called exploit to do so. My idea will not benefit me or people doing the same but might be a little bit more realistic! So, here we go:

I'm going to use Zlatan as an example because that's one of the players I know best.. People around him say he has great influence in teams he plays in. Especially the Swedish national team because he's by far our greatest star. And players say frequently that the learn alot from him by his leadership, determination and will.

My idea is when a star player / players in a team perform well on the pitch and pretty consistently some youngsters in the team will of course look up to him!

Why not make it so that the ass man or whoever gives you training feedback "randomly" comes with the news item that your youngster [Name] has developed [attributes] by playing alongside and watching Zlatan play and maybe score a winning goal etc.. This could IMO be any attributes and maybe more than one. Because the youngster has seen Zlatan use a certain touch on the ball when finishing and will develop in finishing aswell. Same with determination etc etc..

This would be a workaround to not signing older players just to play them a few games, but they're forced to use this player as a key player in the team. More realistic IMO.

And the negative fact that you're not able to select a certain player to be tutored could instead have the positive effect of him influencing several players during a season, and more than one attribute.

I'm willing to dive into the CA/PA system also, and maybe when players learns from the "tutor" he will get a slightly higher PA..!? In this case maybe the players that you always discard when you get your youngsters from the academy might be a little more worthwile holding on to because it might be one of them who develops from this and will make him a great player for your team..

I'm willing to say players like Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Maldini, Ronaldo, Messi etc etc are players how fit into this category for certain! But in the lower leagues or for smaller teams it might be enough with the key players for each position..

Sorry for long post, and hope people understand what I mean..

-Soninho-

Tutoring in general is an exploit really if you know how to do it well. I don't mind the concept of tutoring, but there should be something that makes it harder to basically create a squad of choir boys. Also I've never understood why tutoring covers pressure. I can see how a professional approach and ambition can be contagious in a certain way, but I don't think a bottler becomes Cool Hand Luke just by hanging around him. Similarly I don't think Cool Hand Luke becomes a bottler by hanging around Nervous Nelly.

Also I think Weezer is spot on. It should be more about the collective qualities of the squad, and also seeing what the manager responds to. If the youngsters see that the manager responds well to hard trainers and picks them, then they'll pick up their training intensity accordingly. If they see the manager just picks players regardless of what they show in training, they won't see it necessary to train hard and just look to get by on natural ability alone.

I like this line of thinking, personally I feel SI made the right choice to tighten up who can tutor/be tutored & the introduction this year of senior squad traits rubbing off on younger players is an excellent addition, add in this idea & player psychological & personal development would be much closer to real life.

I long to see SI come up with a system to replace 1to1 tutoring which is one of the more gamey aspects in FM.

I accept that some people consider using bought-in tutors exploitative and that's fine. However, the system is in place nonetheless and if it's there then we should have an explanation of how it works. The parameters of the tutor-tutee relationship, in terms of who should be able to tutor and be tutored (not whether it would be successful or not as that's a different matter), used to be clear but now there is a unexplained element.

I have been asking for an explanation of this mystery parameter since fm15. Please SI?

SI very rarely go into the core mechanics of a feature in preference of a system based on discovery & learning from past behaviour (in that version of FM), over time people will figure out the underlying mechanics & change their methods accordingly while some will also explain their methodology in various user created guides.

Drogba going back to Chelsea, hardly played, but he would have mentored youngsters. So if it happens IRL, how is it an exploit.

Drogba going back to Chelsea, Henry on loan to arsenal. If the OP wants to manage his team like this, he should be able to. FM is becoming far too rigid in what the player who pays for but can actually do.

SI very rarely go into the core mechanics of a feature in preference of a system based on discovery & learning from past behaviour (in that version of FM), over time people will figure out the underlying mechanics & change their methods accordingly while some will also explain their methodology in various user created guides.

Is that how the established known parameters relating to tutoring came about in the first place or did SI let us know specifically about the various criteria e.g. age, rep, squad status etc.?

Still thinks my idea that I posted would work out. But in the Drogba case, maybe implement that club legends also have influence even if not playing as much...

Drogba going back to Chelsea, hardly played, but he would have mentored youngsters. So if it happens IRL, how is it an exploit.

Tbf the whole notion of tutoring becomes illogical when you put it like that. I mean, does it really happen this way in real life, does a player ever get asked to specifically take an individual under their wing? And even if it does happen I bet it doesn't happen anywhere near the amount of times the average FM player will use it. Young players can pick stuff up by watching what the more senior players do and training alongside them will obviously mean some of their more positive qualities would rub off onto the youngsters, as would some of the bad. I much prefer the new model of the squad personality having an impact on a young player's development. My squad has a determined personality and already, within just a couple of months, I'm seeing the determination attribute rise in a handful of younger players. I think this is a much more realistic method than instructing one senior player to take one specific youngster under their wing and tutor them and them alone. Surely a manager wants his more influential senior players benefiting all of the younger players, not just one individual?

I'd get rid of the old tutoring model altogether.

I actually quite agree with you on this. I do like it from a game aspect to be able to do, but we may be moving away from it anyway, as now young players will see personality traits and attributes change based on the overall squad personality. If that, and the personalities of the staff could be the vehicle for personality development in a more comprehensive way I think it would work much better and more accurately model what really happens. It would still make the idea of bringing in an aging player who has a great personality have meaning, as he would contribute to the club atmosphere that would in turn affect young players.

I actually quite agree with you on this. I do like it from a game aspect to be able to do, but we may be moving away from it anyway, as now young players will see personality traits and attributes change based on the overall squad personality. If that, and the personalities of the staff could be the vehicle for personality development in a more comprehensive way I think it would work much better and more accurately model what really happens. It would still make the idea of bringing in an aging player who has a great personality have meaning, as he would contribute to the club atmosphere that would in turn affect young players.

I certainly agree that tutoring should be more realistic and evolve in the ways suggested above. However, I spent a good while conversing with the bug team during fm15 about inconsistencies and lack of clarity in the module which led me to ponder if anyone really had a good grip on the mechanics at all. There seems to be something under the hood that has a bearing on tutoring eligibility from both sides of the relationship that neither SI nor the wider community has been able to investigate, reliably reproduce and shed light upon.

Here are a couple of the old thread links in case anybody is interested -

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/407085-Have-the-tutoring-conditions-changed

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/412458-Tutoring-eligibility-changing-Bug-Reviewed

Same, signed Ronaldinho for tutoring purposes but wasn't able to assign anyone to him.

Ah yes, that well known role model and picture of professionalism Ronaldinho

So many good ideas in here.

There you go SI, major feature change for FM17

Not a directly comparable scenario. Signing an ageing or even past it superstar just to tutor players is an exploit, irl I'd expect a board to veto such a deal unless they were coming in on a coaching contract.

The issue with FM it is still too easy to pick up these former top players on cheap backup player contracts & that's what creates the exploit.

Ok, but you can't ask a coach to tutor a youngster in the game. So...

Just to be pedantic, it is a 'game feature', therefore cannot possibly be an exploit. also agree, the system needs changing/tweaking somewhat to more accurately mirror real life.

Ah yes, that well known role model and picture of professionalism Ronaldinho

Them curling balls, man

I very much doubt that first team players would recognise most of the 16 year olds at their club, never mind talk to them. And for the manager to ask a first teamer to directly mentor strikes me as highly improbable

Experienced players who are so inclined (by professionalism, leadership and other relevant attributes) should have the ability to naturally influence the relevant younger players that are training with the first team. This effect could be multiplied if the youngsters are in an around the first team squad (in the 18 on matchday) as they would be around the older players at hotels, on the bus, in the changing rooms etc etc.

In addition to a general effect as described above, natural mentoring relationships could then form based on this, of which you have no direct control. Hence, the experienced players may improve certain youngsters attributes, they may pass on a PPM or two.

This approach would negate the Del Piero situation, unless you bought him and then picked him most weeks, especially if the unofficial mentors at your club could only have an effect if they are a regular starter (a old has-been trundling around the country sitting on the bench will not be influential enough on the youngsters as he is "in the background").

Everything needs a flip side, and that would come from lunatics like Balotelli and disgruntled players - perhaps like an oldie cruising through the last year of his contract in the reserves. They would have the potential to spread their lack of professionalism on the impressionable youngsters.

The only control that the manager has is to get the right characters into the club and get the youngsters in proximity.

I believe that would be a more accurate approach.

I very much doubt that first team players would recognise most of the 16 year olds at their club, never mind talk to them. And for the manager to ask a first teamer to directly mentor strikes me as highly improbable

Experienced players who are so inclined (by professionalism, leadership and other relevant attributes) should have the ability to naturally influence the relevant younger players that are training with the first team. This effect could be multiplied if the youngsters are in an around the first team squad (in the 18 on matchday) as they would be around the older players at hotels, on the bus, in the changing rooms etc etc.

In addition to a general effect as described above, natural mentoring relationships could then form based on this, of which you have no direct control. Hence, the experienced players may improve certain youngsters attributes, they may pass on a PPM or two.

This approach would negate the Del Piero situation, unless you bought him and then picked him most weeks, especially if the unofficial mentors at your club could only have an effect if they are a regular starter (a old has-been trundling around the country sitting on the bench will not be influential enough on the youngsters as he is "in the background").

Everything needs a flip side, and that would come from lunatics like Balotelli and disgruntled players - perhaps like an oldie cruising through the last year of his contract in the reserves. They would have the potential to spread their lack of professionalism on the impressionable youngsters.

The only control that the manager has is to get the right characters into the club and get the youngsters in proximity.

I believe that would be a more accurate approach.

Spot on! Almost exactly what I meant by my post and think this would be far more realistic than current approach..!

....

I'm going to use Zlatan as an example because that's one of the players I know best.. People around him say he has great influence in teams he plays in. Especially the Swedish national team because he's by far our greatest star. And players say frequently that the learn alot from him by his leadership, determination and will.

My idea is when a star player / players in a team perform well on the pitch and pretty consistently some youngsters in the team will of course look up to him!

Why not make it so that the ass man or whoever gives you training feedback "randomly" comes with the news item that your youngster [Name] has developed [attributes] by playing alongside and watching Zlatan play and maybe score a winning goal etc.. This could IMO be any attributes and maybe more than one. Because the youngster has seen Zlatan use a certain touch on the ball when finishing and will develop in finishing aswell. Same with determination etc etc..

....

I'm going to immediately say that this is in the game, or so my coaches would have me believe

I sometimes get a "Player has developed from training at a higher level" with green arrows across the board, typically with Lucas Romero

I actually agree with what the mods have said here

The club legends would have some pull with younger players (as would golden oldies at smaller clubs) but there's no way that some Liverpool youngsters would appreciate shadowing a player that has no connection to their club

If Liverpool signed Gerrard, then yes, I'd say they'd be interested, but some random club legend from another country? nope

And then it works at smaller clubs because he's actually playing games, so the youngsters would try and learn from him to hopefully break into the first team themselves

It used to be exploited to the max imo, signing some random 35+yos with 20 determination on 1-2 year deals, never play them, and watch as they serve as guinea pigs for your youngsters (it never happens irl, unless the player has some affinity with the club)

I'm going to immediately say that this is in the game, or so my coaches would have me believe

I sometimes get a "Player has developed from training at a higher level" with green arrows across the board, typically with Lucas Romero

That's about 10% of what has been discussed. It can replace tutoring by developing into something more specific, logical and organic.

The bottom line is that it is highly unlikely that tutoring carries on at real clubs in anything like the manner portrayed in the game, so a more realistic approach must be adopted.

I find it quite frustrating. I get stopping teams from using people who are vastly inappeopriate (League 2 player mentoring Premier League regular), but people like Kaka or Del Piero would have more to offer.

The fact that Premier League sides are not signing players on this basis irl suggests otherwise.

Whether or not tutoring reflects the real world (and I agree that it doesn't) there is still a discussion to be had about how it actually works in the game we are all currently playing. At least that is what the OP seems to have intended. With that in mind does anybody have any insight relating to how you can tell if players can tutor BEFORE you actually buy them? We used to know what the precise requirements were, so what has changed?

The fact that Premier League sides are not signing players on this basis irl suggests otherwise.

You could also argue that the EPL teams have no interest in youth players so they have no need to do it.

Also this game is not just about the EPL and its annoying that it always sets up 75% of the reasons things happen in the game.

You could also argue that the EPL teams have no interest in youth players so they have no need to do it.

Also this game is not just about the EPL and its annoying that it always sets up 75% of the reasons things happen in the game.

I only referenced the Premier League because it's the league/nation that has been sued throughout this thread, personally I do not think it's a signing policy used across football. Even when ageing stars are signed by clubs from lesser known football nations it tends to be because of their marque status & the related commercial revenues or casual curiosity interest such a such a signing will generate rather than directly tutor some random youngster at the club.