Challenges / Sign-Ups / Holiday Games ideas thread.

[PaulHartman71]

great idea Nep

[NepentheZ]

I will open a thread for it shortly....

[minisav]

Ah bugger, my place will be taken. Oh well, I'll just have to be a spectator.

[rancer890]

Ah bugger, my place will be taken. Oh well, I'll just have to be a spectator.

Me too. I like the sound of this signup. Stupid timezones.

[NepentheZ]

For those of the people I like in the forums, places will be reserved for you

BTW - the thread is up, but in GD. I posted it in the wrong place

[canvey!!]

I've just updated 16 threads in the Sign-Up Guide to their new status - which is 'Abandoned'. That's not including those changed to 'Unknown', those relocated and those deleted from the list. All I can ask is that people think a little bit more before deciding to post a sign-up. It isn't a decision that should be made too lightly.

By the way, if you want your sign-up added to the list, PM me or post in the Mods Request Thread. Don't request it here as it isn't the place - I'm just posting this here to reach a wider audience.

[roberto922]

Sounds great Nep, if I'm in I usually play as a LB

[minisav]

The Uncapped Challenge

Aim:

To qualify for the World Cup, and then register a team for the finals with players that have never been capped.

Any nation is viable but obviously places like Brazil* & Argentina would be easiest.

A points system will be used.

Points:

Goal:

GK - 10
Defender - 7
Midfielder - 5
Striker - 2

Assist:

GK - 5
Defender - 5
Midfielder - 2
Striker -2

Miscellaneous:

1st Cap - 5
1st Goal - 10
Golden Boot - 25

Game:

Win - 3
Draw - 1
Loss - 0 Just like the real thing


Basically putting this up as I need to complete the points list such as what to give for how far you reach and stuff.

So, thoughts/ideas/improvements?

*This team were the original team used for this idea which I completed on another forum for FM 05 or 06

[iacovone]

That idea sound immense, although it would involve a huge amount of work.

Bit of a shame I don't have my FM06 save with Danny Roberts in his prime, I'm still convinced he was the greatest player I've ever seen in CM/FM. The fact he was more successful under the AI (with England) than with me suggests he could have scored even more goals had my tactics been better.

I think that is half the reason most CSE'ers would be interested in it - everyone has a story about their players and I'm sure everyone would fancy their team to beat the others etc. It would be fairly competitive I imagine.

However as said, it would take a phenomenal amount of editing and preparation, something I can't fully commit to at the moment. But I've thrown the idea out there so that its in the pipeline

[spartans5]

iacovone, i enjoy playing around with the editor, so if the editing is what you can't commit to at the moment, then i am willing to help out with that, provided you tell me exactly what it is you want done as far as creating these teams is concerned.

PM me if interested.

[AFC-NIFC-MUFC-RFC-LFC]

a good challenge would be to take man city take al their starting eleven away spread them throughout the game and signa whole new first team.

[max1994]

a good challenge would be to take man city take al their starting eleven away spread them throughout the game and signa whole new first team.

It will be really easy to build a new first team with all the money Man city have

[Aesler]

I came up with an idea of a challenge when looking at MadWoodsters International Challenge and Azeryk's CSE Hall of Fame. In the hall of fame you have Dafuge's Challenge for English leagues, Gundo's and JoseRR's for European, Razer82's for South American and Rancer890's for Asian/African, but noticeably there is no small International team to big national team challenge and that is because of one reason, it is pretty much impossible. The smaller nations simply do not have the squad or the infrastructure in place to produce quality players for the future.

So that got me thinking "What would it take to take a small nation to World Cup glory?"

I've been doing a bit of AI experiment just to get things on the road, starting in the Iceland as they would be considered one of the more advanced nations outside the top 100 rankings (with typical facilities of the top Icelandic clubs being Youth = 10 and Training = 10). I monitored how regens developed over time using the teams standard facilities, I would run the league as normal and each year note down the maximum CA and PA (star player), 10th highest CA and PA(starting XI) and the 25th highest CA and PA (depth value).

Below are the regens and the progress they made over a five year period:

Iceland Standard Facilities

2011 Regens (initital)
Star Player (Max): 94/179
Starting XI (10th): 68/141
Depth (25th): 54/118

2011 Regens (2012)
Star Player: 94/179 (-)
Starting XI: 72/141 (+3)
Depth: 56/118 (+2)

2011 Regens (2013)
Star Player: 96/179 (+2)
Starting XI: 76/141 (+4)
Depth: 59/114 (+3)

2011 Regens (2014)
Star Player: 100/179 (+4)
Starting XI: 80/141 (+4)
Depth: 63/112 (+4)

2011 Regens (2015)
Star Player: 106/179 (+6)
Starting XI: 82/141 (+2)
Depth: 64/112 (+4)

Note highest CA and PA values may not necessarily be from the same player

Summary
I did this for 5 groups of youngsters, all with more than 200 players in each youth group and rather than overloading you with information the results were pretty consistant. The average increase in ability per year was 3.17 CA, even with some of the potential talent in the Icelandic youth ranks, it seems they will never have the facilities or standard of competition available to reach it and therefore the Iceland national team will struggle to improve. It is worth noting that the player with PA179 was the highest attained during the tests. It is also interesting to see that even some of the most gifted youngsters retire at an early age because they don't make it in the game, sometimes even struggling to find a team in the Icelandic lower league, 79.1% of the youngesters in the group of youths shown above had retired within 5 years, none ever got to play abroad.

[Aesler]

So what standard to the team have to be at to reach the World Cup? Here is a look at the top clubs in Europe as well as some outsiders:



Note Depth value is set to 50th player as national pool much larger than annual group of regens

Now I know when I read threads with a bunch of numbers like that I generally skim read it, but to summarise the aim of the AI experiment should be to increase a nations facilities so that it should create regens somewhere in between the values of the outsider and top nations (at the very most - it should take years of pateince and persistance to find that golden era of a national team). It needs to be a difficult challenge, you might not think the "outsider nations" shown above are capable of winning a world cup but cast your eyes back to 2004 and Greece lifted the European Championship at odds as high as 150/1.

[Aesler]

I decided to test what facilities generated which players (ie. looking at State of the Art all the way to Minimal) and without giving all the detail I arrived that "good" facilities (Youth = 14 and Training = 14) were ideal for generating medium to good potential players. I then ran another experiment with Guinea-Bissau, assigning these facilities to all 10 clubs in the nation and looked to see what effect it had on the national team over time.



Note regens only

As you can see the nations clubs generated a good array of potential talent, but increasing the standard of facilities was not enough to increase the players current abilities any more than the Icelandic regens, they were slightly less if anything. Only two players made it abroad, one which had the highest CA (108) but a PA of 144, the other had a CA/PA of 99/158, they went to Corinthians/Chicago and Tauro (Panama) respectively. It seems if the players are going to reach their potential they need to be playing regularly abroad, but even with the potential some factors like reputation hinder the chance of a dream move happening.

[Aesler]

This is where I need further assistant in developing this experiment so I can create my World Cup challenge, next I will be using Lebanon in the Asian Region but changes will be have to be made to increase chance of a realistic long term World Cup goal.

Discussion points:

1. What changes will increase the likelyhood of players being transfered abroad (ie. Reputation)?

2. Is the current standard of regens coming through sufficient for a World Cup challenge or are better facilities needed?

3. Can clubs outside the playable leagues ever produce a high quality team?

4. Will editing a database (albeit very minor and easily explainable) be too complicated to get people taking up the challenge?

5. Some nations are unmanagable at the start, when can they become manageable (this will also be tested in the next AI Experiment)?

Any other comments would be appreciated.

[kashmirshazad]

This is a good idea Aedsler, i was messing about in the editor on my save, and gave Pakistan all brilliaant youngsters, still waiting to play a game though.
However to take a small nation without editing would be more or less impossible, e.g. can you even consider what it would take for Fiji to win the WC?

[minisav]

A good few years? Obviously it would be easier to do with nations that have a national league but the league isn't playable. Similar to San Marino really. Although they do have a club in a playable league


Also, any thoughts for my idea? I'd really like to get it going but I do need to complete the points table.

[Aesler]

A good few years? Obviously it would be easier to do with nations that have a national league but the league isn't playable. Similar to San Marino really. Although they do have a club in a playable league


Also, any thoughts for my idea? I'd really like to get it going but I do need to complete the points table.

I know, thats why the facilities plus possibly other factors need to be edited to give small nations a fighting chance to have the chance in future years of developing a squad with a reasonable amount of quality.

This is a good idea Aedsler, i was messing about in the editor on my save, and gave Pakistan all brilliaant youngsters, still waiting to play a game though.
However to take a small nation without editing would be more or less impossible, e.g. can you even consider what it would take for Fiji to win the WC?

I think your idea of a challenge is quite good, it would get easier down the years though as you'd of had complete control of the squad for a while and if done correctly you could leave aside a range of top quality players to qualify for the finals. Having said that it will take a good manager to get the balance right, having a good enough team to qualify for the World Cup and to have a completely different squad to win it with, sounds fun and challenging. Points systems fine, just like fantasy football.

----------------------------

Just another mention of my experiment, I've had a bit more optimism from running it a bit longer, my goalkeeper who was at Corinthians and Chicago who then was unattached for six months has finally found a club, he's back in the MLS with New York and playing regularly and now valued at 110k. Also playing my hot prospect (176 PA) attacking left winger regularly in the national team from the age of 16 managed to attract interest from Spain, signing for Sevilla Athletico (B Team) and is now valued at 575k. There are still far too many premature retirements for my liking though, it would be helpful to know whether changing the league (can you do this?) or club reputation will increase the chances of an overseas transfer, it might also be worth putting one or two state of the art or better standard facilities in place to increase the chance of 'stand out' players over the years. Again, any comments would be appreciated.

[minisav]

Sounds like a great experiment anyway. Hope it goes well, will follow progress

Cheers for your thoughts on my challenge. It was a hard challenge. Although the easiest way to do it is let the AI qualify, take over then search for the uncapped ones

It'll be up some time this week if I complete the points system!

[antfm08]

Sign up league anyone?

- 20 Spaces to replace premiership
- £40 Million each
- 8500 Reputation
- No Manager at each club
- Stadiums Are First Come First Serve eg Man Utd have largest so first person gets their stadium etc
- 1 Good Player Of Your Choice
- 2 Useless Players Of Your Choice
- 1 Under 18 Player Of Your Choice (excluding Bojan etc)
- 1 Injured Player at the start of the game
- 1 African Player of your choice
- 1 33yr+ Player of your choice
- Created Player with -10 Ability and 1 Stat Of your choice

The rest is luck.....

[pnefc22]

Sign up league anyone?

- 20 Spaces to replace premiership
- £40 Million each
- 8500 Reputation
- No Manager at each club
- Stadiums Are First Come First Serve eg Man Utd have largest so first person gets their stadium etc
- 1 Good Player Of Your Choice
- 2 Useless Players Of Your Choice
- 1 Under 18 Player Of Your Choice (excluding Bojan etc)
- 1 Injured Player at the start of the game
- 1 African Player of your choice
- 1 33yr+ Player of your choice
- Created Player with -10 Ability and 1 Stat Of your choice

The rest is luck.....

What do you define as a useless player and as a good player?

[DodgeeD]

Aesler - One thing you could try is setting up the clubs from your chosen nation with feeder links to some European sides. I did it in my sign-up and it resulted in a few regens heading over to the Dutch league due to first option deals.

As for the unplayable nations, you have to wait a few seasons for a sufficient number of regens to come up for that national side to be playable. I'm not sure how many are needed exactly but it may well be over 50...

While I'm here, I have a couple of ideas to bounce around:

1) The Namesake Swop Experiment - this is a silly idea but could provide a fun short AI experiment. I've noticed a few South American clubs which are named after/share a name with British clubs (there is a Liverpool side in Uruguay, Arsenal in Argentina, Everton and Rangers in Chile) as well as clubs elsewhere (Newcastle in Australia and my personal fave Sheffield United in Hong Kong!). The expereiment would be to put those teams into the British leagues and send the British teams the other way. I'd then run the game to see how the teams cope with life in their new leagues (especially in regard to how they cope with foreigner limits and whether or not the big name players will stay or want to go back to Europe).

2) The Average Joe Sign-Up - inspired by the likes of Emile Heskey, Mathew Upson, Jason Wilcox and pretty much anyone who played for England under Graham Taylor, the aim of this sign up would be to create an 'average player' with decent stats and a good but not great PA and see if he can make it into the England side. Options could be given to enhance your prospects (starting at a top side with top facilities or a smaller club where first team exposure will come easily, being a utility player, strong mental stats, high ambition etc) and we would then track who makes it and who flounders.

Thoughts?

[PaulHartman71]

DodgeeD -

Idea number 1 sounds both funny, however it would also be very interesting to see not only how the British teams do abroad, but how their namesake teams do in their place. Number 2 sounds like a good idea as well, and would definitely be a fresh and original sign up. Think I've seen something like it before, might just have been you mentioning it before though?

[canvey!!]

I like your first idea Dodgee . I should probably fill the rest of this post out with writing on how much I like it and what I would suggest but you've pretty much got it perfect from your description there. I'd certainly be interested.

[corinthiano]

There lower league legends one is the closest I can recall to the second idea. It was very interesting but unfortunately it was abandoned.

I like Idea 1 a lot, would certainly be very amusing to see some Hong Kong players failing miserably in the Championship!

[DodgeeD]

DodgeeD -

Idea number 1 sounds both funny, however it would also be very interesting to see not only how the British teams do abroad, but how their namesake teams do in their place. Number 2 sounds like a good idea as well, and would definitely be a fresh and original sign up. Think I've seen something like it before, might just have been you mentioning it before though?

Yeah, I have mentioned it before. That time I went ahead and did the Treasure Island thing instead but now that's over I went over some other ideas I had then and this one seemed best.

[DodgeeD]

I might experiment with the database a bit over the next couple of days for idea 1 then (I'm sure the game will crash several times before I get the swopping done right!)

All I would do is swop the teams: no changes to club rep, stadiums or playing/coaching staff would take place and leagues would be on full detail of course! Can Sheff Utnited dominate Asia?

Btw, if anyone can think of other candidates for the swop, let me know. One other possibility is to put Barcelona of Ecuador into La Liga!

[canvey!!]

It might be worth mentioning that I hate the word 'swop' . Although it is apparently the British equivalent of 'swap', I much prefer 'swap'.

[mikeytwigge]

nah its definitely swap here in Britain don't know where swop comes from

[pnefc22]

I'm sure it's swap, not swop. Could be wrong though

Which was the LOwer League Legends one? Don't remember it.

[roberto922]

Wasn't there a show called 'swop shop'? That might be where it comes from

[pnefc22]

Beaten twice, wonderful

FOR A CHALLENGE

It would be called Domination

That's as far as I've got, and it would involve dominating

Is the 20/20 challenge still going? As I would like to do a challenge like that which invloves something like 5 challenges a week.

[pnefc22]

Wasn't there a show called 'swop shop'? That might be where it comes from

You mean, swap shop?

SWAPPITS

[canvey!!]

Dictionary Definition - it says that it is the chiefly British variant, which means that it isn't used in the USA but is only slightly more used here in the UK. I personally use 'swap', as could be inferred by my despisal of the word 'swop'. There was indeed a show called 'Swap Shop', which uses the a rather than the o.

[PaulHartman71]

Is the 20/20 challenge still going?

dunno, I quit it ages ago and Stiggy took over. Wouldn't recommend running it though, it was rubbish when I ran it, no banter during the week, and everybody would post their screenshots hours before the deadline, with several 4/5 hours late which meant I had to let them in. It was chaos. Your choice though

[minisav]

Points:

Goal:

GK - 10
Defender - 7
Midfielder - 5
Striker - 2

Assist:

GK - 5
Defender - 5
Midfielder - 2
Striker -2

Miscellaneous:

1st Cap - 5
1st Goal - 10



Game:

Win - 3
Draw - 1
Loss - 0

Win the Tournament - 500
Finalist - 250
Semi Finalist - 175
Quarter Finalist - 100


Awards:

Top Scorer - 25
Best Player - 20
Goal of the Tournament - 20 for 1st, 10 for 2nd & 5 for 3rd
Best Goalkeeper - 15
Dream Team (Per player) - 2
Dream Team (All of them) - 50


That's the current points system. I'll set it up tomorrow some time around 4:00 p.m.

Suggest any changes if you have them

[Aesler]

Awards:

Top Scorer - 25
Best Player - 20
Goal of the Tournament - 20 for 1st, 10 for 2nd & 5 for 3rd
Best Goalkeeper - 15
Dream Team (Per player) - 2
Dream Team (All of them) - 50

I would give more for getting a player in the dream team, its a big achievement and realistically you won't get all of them in the same squad.

[Aesler]

I've set up the following nations with youth and training facilities to 15 (note slight increase from previous standard):

Montenegro
Benin
Kuwait
Jamaica
New Zealand
El Salvador

These are the highest reputation teams of each region outside the top 100 (except Montenegro, but I didn't want to test Iceland again). All additional players have been added for each nation and I will holiday the game overnight (hopefully 10 years game time) to see what standard players they have produced and whether they have made much progress in major tournaments. It should provide some very useful info in setting up my 'Small nation World Cup challenge'.

[antfm08]

What do you define as a useless player and as a good player?

Not so much useless but a recognised flop. (For Example Bramble, Boumsong, Voronin, Usiles De La Cruz)
For a good player i mean someone class like Aguero, Ibra etc
_____________________________________

Maybe an ebay style sign up would be better so everyone signs up and gets a team then there is an auction style market where the sign up users have a set amount of say £150 million to build their club with Reputations, Stadiums, Managers, Players, Staff, Investment into the club (as budgets would be seperate to the club as it is your money being spent)

Only one person would be able to have a certain item at a time.

And the people who sign up can be outbid by other people and sell certain parts of their club to raise funds for another purchase.

Obviously Fmrte would be used to do this in game.

Auctions would occur at transfer windows and be the only way to sign the players you want.

Evil Auctions could start such as Next Opposition's Best Players Energy Drained Etc.

It would be like a chairman sign up I suppose but one where you have full control of everything.

[DodgeeD]

Had a free morning so I swapped/swopped () some teams around in the database. I'm running a test for a couple of seasons to make sure there are no crashes. If there are no problems (doubt it ), I'll get the thread up sometime this week.

[Aesler]

After holidaying overnight it got to the year 2018, just before the 2018 world cup, the 10 highest reputation teams were set to have youth and training facilities of 15.

Here are the results for all six teams:

Montenegro

Star Player (Max CA/PA): 174/179
Starting XI (10th value): 137/168
Depth (50th value): 110/147
No. of Regens: 226
Based Abroad: 37

World Cup:
2010 - Did not Qualify (3rd in quals - 10 points)
2014 - Did not Qualify (4th in quals- 15 points)
2018 - Did not Qualify (4th in quals - 11 points, 5 team group)

European Championship:
2012 - Did not Qualify (5th in quals - 13 points - 7 team group)
2016 - Did not Qualify (3rd in quals - 10 points - 5 team group)

Slight improvement, on the verge of sneaking a qualifying spot on a couple of occassions. Lots of youngsters coming through with potential.

Benin

Star Player (Max CA/PA): 134/152
Starting XI (10th value): 66/133
Depth (50th value): n/a
No. of Regens: 49
Based Abroad: 1

World Cup:
2010 - Did not Qualify (2nd in 3rd qual group phase - 9 points) Note: tournament had already begun before game
2014 - Did not Qualify (4th, last in the qual group in 3rd phase - 1 point)
2018 - Did not Qualify (3rd in the 3rd qual group phase - 7 points)

African Nations:
2010 - Qualified (4th in Group D - 1 point)
2012 - Did not Qualify (2nd in qual group by head-to-head record)
2014 - Did not Qualify (2nd in qual group - 13 points)
2016 - Did not Qualify (2nd in qual group - 13 points)
2018 - Qualified (3rd in Group C - 1 point)

There has been a distinct lack of regens coming through and that must amount to the lack of progress. The reason may be that I am only running the English Premier League as running an experiment with Guinea-Bissau before brought more talent through the youth academies.

Kuwait

Star Player (Max CA/PA): 151/180
Starting XI (10th value): 137/159
Depth (50th value): 104/141
No. of Regens: 103
Based Abroad: 21

World Cup:
2010 - Did not Qualify (already eliminated)
2014 - Did not Qualify (Lost in the final playoff to New Zealand 4-2 on agg [2-2 away in the first leg])
2018 - Qualified (Sweet revenge for Kuwait, beating New Zealand in the playoff final 6-4 on agg to reach the World Cup!)

Asian Cup:
2011 - Qualified (3rd in group - 3 points)
2015 - Qualified (4th in group - 2 points)
2019 - Qualified (to be played)

It will be interesting to see how Kuwait fair in the World Cup, they have shown real progress in getting there and some of their players play all over the world at clubs including Nice, Heerenveen, Braga, AZ and LA Galaxy.

Jamaica, New Zealand and El Salvador to follow...

PS. I didn't intend to write this much, should of done a thread really but I don't intend to carry it on after this, hopefully I can start a challenge....

[Aesler]

Jamaica

Star Player (Max CA/PA): 163/193
Starting XI (10th value): 111/157
Depth (50th value): 72/130
No. of Regens: 159
Based Abroad: 12

World Cup:
2010 - Did not Qualify (Lost in playoff final, cruelly losing 4-3 on agg to Columbia)
2014 - Did not Qualify (5th in third phase qual group, 3 points off a playoff spot)
2018 - Did not Qualify (3rd in second phase qual group)

North America Gold Cup: (no qualifiers)
2009 - 3rd in group stage
2011 - 3rd in group stage
2013 - Semi Final (lost 1-0 to USA)
2015 - Quarter Final
2017 - Quarter Final (knocked out by Mexico for the second time running)

There is a decent amount of quality coming through, encouraging results in the Gold cup and they narrowly missed out on a World Cup place. It is interesting to see that "good (15)" facilities can produce such high quality players (PA 193) meaning that there is a chance all smaller nations can develop a wonder kid at some point over the years. It is noticeable that there is a lack of players reaching their potential, probably because they struggle to find a club away from Jamaica.

New Zealand

Star Player (Max CA/PA): 148/193
Starting XI (10th value): 134/163
Depth (50th value): 84/140
No. of Regens: 156
Based Abroad: 25

World Cup:
2010 - Did not Qualify (Lost in playoff final to Iran)
2014 - Qualified (Finished 4th in group, without a win)
2018 - Did not Qualify (Lost in playoff final to Kuwait)

OCE Nations Cup: (no qualifiers)
2010 - Winners
2012 - Winners
2014 - Winners
2016 - Winners
2018 - Winners

The lack of sucess from the national team has often been pinpointed to the poor domestic league in New Zealand. Improving the facilities has increased the potential talent massively, attracting interest from clubs all over Europe. They still really struggled on the big stage, winning the OCE Cup couldn't really be called an achievement as their previous rivals Australia now play in Asia so the finals were contested against Tahiti and Vanuatu.

El Salvador

Star Player (Max CA/PA): 175/183
Starting XI (10th value): 135/170
Depth (50th value): 108/148
No. of Regens: 166
Based Abroad: 22

World Cup:
2010 - Did not Qualify (An unlucky draw against Mexico in the First Phase 2nd Rnd saw them eliminated)
2014 - Qualified (4th in group, nil pwa)
2018 - Qualified (3rd in main qual group, Finals to be contested)

North America Gold Cup: (no qualifiers)
2009 - Semi Final (lost to USA 2-0)
2011 - Semi Final (lost to Mexico 1-0)
2013 - Quarter Final (lost to Jamaica 1-0)
2015 - Semi Final (lost to Mexico 2-0)
2017 - Quarter Final (knocked out by USA 2-1)

El Salvador have been the suprise package of this experiment and have given the most hope that a small nation can improve way beyond their expectations. Three players now make the first team in the Premier League, with many others dotted around Europe. Some great performances in the Gold Cup, it will be interesting to see how they do in this world cup as another whitewash could mean changes need to be made.

Before making any conclusions I am going to go watch the World Cup to see how Kuwait and El Salvador get on.

[minisav]

Maybe you should do an experiment thread on this. It looks good

Cheers for the help too

[DodgeeD]

Had a free morning so I swapped/swopped () some teams around in the database. I'm running a test for a couple of seasons to make sure there are no crashes. If there are no problems (doubt it ), I'll get the thread up sometime this week.

Hmmm, it crashed at the end of season 1, probably when the European qualifiers should have been decided... I'll try making a couple more changes and see if I can fix it - there was some crazy stuff going on that would make for an interesting read

[minisav]

Hope you sort it Dodgee

And now for my one and only plug for my challenge (Bar my location )

[corinthiano]

Hope you manage to fix it!

[Aesler]

Maybe you should do an experiment thread on this. It looks good

Cheers for the help too

Wish I had but too far into it now, going to do a few more runs of it then start the challenge, won't spam this thread anymore ha.

For the record, Kuwait and El Salvador both failed to make it out the group stage, getting one point each but both deserved more. El Salvador matched Brazil and if they hadn't of given two stupid penalties away they could have got something from the game. They also led twice against Switzerland but against saw defeat from a needless penalty. I think the level of difficulty is about right, after all the regens are only 27 at most (its 2018) so some have yet to reach their peak. Plus if the AI can qualify then I'm sure us tactical geniuses can get all the way to the final.

Just running a test on how smaller nations fair compared to the ones in the last test...

Might be a month till I put the experiment up though as I'm off to Australia for a couple weeks at the beginning of April

[Swafe]

Hey guys am thinking of doing a sign up, my first one, be gentle

all players and staff released from Welsh Premier clubs, Stadiums, Rep and Finances all increased
People sign up to be chairmen of a club, and chose from a list of players to make a team, also added into this list are 36 welsh 20 year olds (2 per club) all with a CA/PA of 200 and all stats set to 20, obviously these will be reduced by the game. Managers will be selected by random for each team

what do you guys think?

[spartans5]

I would say lower the CA and not make them all stats at 20

[Swafe]

what CA would you recommend? and any ideas on the stats then?

[spartans5]

Well, are you looking for these teams to be powerhouse immediately or to have them rise through the ranks?

[corinthiano]

I would have the CA at 100, 150 only if you want hem to be very good from the start.

I would either let each user choose some stats and randomize the rest, or ust randomize all of them (setting the values to 0 in the editor). If each person gets two, then that shouldn't be much of an effort for the people signing up.

I like the idea though

[Lower Leagues Rule]

I've had a pretty epic idea guys. It will obviously take an enormous amount of work, as much by me as the rest of the CSE community but here it is anyway:

The idea would be to start a thread offering any CSE challenge participant to upload their save game of their most successful team (ie. teams that have completed challenges, like dafuge's challenge etc).

From these saved files (limited to say 20 teams) I would then go into the editor and create my own database - mimicking every player, staff, club info, stats, everything from their team and copy it over to the new database. By the end of what I imagine would be a hell of a lot of editing, I'd have one almighty database containing 20 of the most successful CSE teams. I would then put them into one division on the game (like the Dutch as an eg).

Then I would simulate the seasons to see how these teams fared against each other. I'm unsure what the best thing would be to do for managers - perhaps give each user an opportunity to create their own manager for their side? The other idea I have is depending on time and availability of users I would run it as a sign up whereby each game week, the users in the CSE community would PM me with their tactics, selection and substitution plans etc. I'd then run the game and report the results for a whole season.

What does everyone think? Do you even think its possible??

I love it...I need my Fafe game back so they can destroy Savona and show you once and for all that Portugal is better than Italy

[iacovone]

Ha you don't stand a chance Des

[Wegason]

My idea is fairly complicated, so please be patient as I try to explain.

The crux of my idea is to answer a simple question:

What is the key to success?

Let me explain;

12 individuals (users of the forums) will be tasked with creating a club, but these will be no ordinary clubs, they will be clubs which have been set up by billionaires but with conditions restricting the initial outlay on each club and forbidding future investment by them as they see their teams progress.

The billionaires have agreed to choose facets of the club they wish to concentrate on and these will be from across 8 areas. They will have 65 "points" to assign, with a maximum of 20 points assigned in any one area with the proviso that they must assign 20 points to at least one area and every area, apart from the draft, must have one point assigned to it. 65 points was chosen as it allows maxing out three areas with the minimum of 1 in the other five areas.

They can assign points to the following areas:

Reputation
Stadium
Fan Support
Finances
Training Facilities
Youth Development
Chairman's Ability
Manager's Skill


Any points they choose to leave over will go into the category "Draft", the person with the highest points left over in "Draft" will choose first in the player draft. Tiebreakers are settled by pot luck, with teams that are tied alternating positions to change who chooses first.

The player draft features 72 players, with each team having six picks. These players will vary in skill and each player will have a screenshot together with a grade which will give an indication of their future potential.

The teams will all start at the bottom teir of English football, six assigned to the Blue Square North, six assigned to the Blue Square South. Each team will need to be based in England (or Wales) and have a relatively realistic name. (Real London FC - acceptable, Poole Bandits - acceptable, Frazza's Footballers - not acceptable)


Points assigned will give the following results:

Reputation - Each point adds 150 to the club's reputation, which starts at 500. The maximum is therefore 3,500.
Stadium - Each point adds 750 seats to the capacity of the stadium, the start point is a 1,000 capacity stadium.
Fan Support - Each point assigned gives an average attendance increase of 1,000, there is no starting point. Maximum average attendance is 20,000
Finances - Each point leads to £200,000 in the bank balance at the start, with 25% of the bank balance assigned to transfer budget. Maximum bank balance is £4,000,000.

Training Facilities - Each point increases the training facilities by the corresponding amount. The maximum 20 would give world class training facilities.
Youth Development - Same as training points wise, 20 would give excellent youth facilities plus a youth academy
Chairman's Ability - Each point assigned increases the ability of the Chairman by 20, maximum of 200.
Manager's Skill - Each point increases the ability of the Manager by 20, maximum of 200.


Here's the rub, participants, before the draft occurs, but after they've chosen their club attributes, can trade with others to move up or down the draft board and or to acquire draft picks. Furthermore, they can trade up to 15 points of their attributes, taking the corresponding hit to their club's attributes. The trades would need to be agreed by both parties and sent to me by PM.

Each stadium's expansion capacity will be triple their starting capacity plus 12,000.

The players, managers, and chairman would be set as loving the club, have maximum confidence, and be given long contracts. Each player will start as an 18 year old with minimal initial reputation and ambition of 11, the managers start at the age of 40 with minimal reputation to increase the likelihood of them staying. The Chairman will be set to love the clubs they are at.

The benefits of strategies would then be assessed in the updates which will hopefully go on for at least 10 game years.

Maxing out fan attendance and stadium capacity may lead to problems if the fans drift away after no initial success and high maintenance costs of looking after the stadium, alternatively, the revenue generated by the fans, and the need not to expand capacity would prevent incurring expensive redevelopment costs that would see money eaten up and loans taken out.

Each strategy has benefits and pitfalls, going the average route may see those who were more aggressive in certain areas succeed initially, or perhaps longer term.

A scoring system would be in place for each club based on the league their in with points awarded according to reputation for staying in the league.

Points of the competition are doubled for winning it, and promotion garners the points of the league the team is promoting to. (Thus the winners of the Blue Square Premier would get double the BSP's rep, plus the rep of League Two that season).


The objective is to see which strategy is the most successful long term, investing in the stadium, providing finances, investing in staff, building a reputation, or investing in players through either youth and training, or the draft.



Now obviously, that's not all fully fleshed out or explained, but I see potential pitfalls for me, like how to conduct the draft, whether to allow Chairman and Manager attributes to be chosen.

[corinthiano]

I really like it, mikeytwigge did something similar for South America, but I really like the different aspects of this one. Would definately be interested!

[minisav]

I like the sound of this

[Wegason]

Forgot to add that when you choose your manager you can set his playing style, marking type, formation etc

Draft could be done on the forum, or via MSN, or via prearranged lists etc.

Oh, and people choose their kits, colours, stadium name, names of Chairman and managers etc.

[corinthiano]

I wouldn't be able to do it via MSN, I think it would be easiest through the forum, maybe in a separate thread?

[Blanco]

MSN is a no-no for me as well... When are you planning on setting this up?? It looks fb

[iacovone]

Wegason that sounds quality

MSN would also be a no-go but then that assumes I'm one of the 12 anyway

Which is a massive hint by the way! Seriously, quality stuff Wegason, you've put a great amount of effort and thought into this

[Wegason]

Wegason that sounds quality

MSN would also be a no-go but then that assumes I'm one of the 12 anyway

Which is a massive hint by the way! Seriously, quality stuff Wegason, you've put a great amount of effort and thought into this

I don't know, you didn't do my FM 08 Nirtania challenge, then again very few people did

[rancer890]

Looks like a great idea Wegason.

Like everyone else, no MSN please, but I probably won't participate since I'm already involved in a lot of signups already...and time zone troubles of course. I live close to the icon. (May I request a Canadian icon SI )

Good luck with that idea, looks like quality.

[Wegason]

MSN is a no-no for me as well... When are you planning on setting this up?? It looks fb

Sometime in the next week or so, though I may open up a thread for applications by PM at some point this weekend from which I will choose 12.

[DanGLiverpool]

I was thinking about doing an experiment where I would test whether developing in an area with extreme conditions would affect the development of a player. Would anyone be interested if I were to start now?

[Swafe]

so would i

[spartans5]

iavocone, I don't know if maybe you missed it because of the spamming from Aesler, but I would be willing to create your database for you and upload it s that it can be conducted properly. I enjoy messing around with the editor. I would just need to know exactly what it is you need done.

[Wegason]

I wouldn't call it spamming, admittedly it deserves its own thread, but its not spamming.

[spartans5]

Not necessarily spamming, but that was the first word that came to my head when I was writing.

[Jack Rudd]

Wegason, I'd take part in your challenge.

[bermybhoy]

Wegason - in no way a criticism, but it sounds a bit like the 'Dragon's Den' sign up I ran in FM08 (on and off....for a while) with added bells and whistles such as picking players, which is no bad thing. Not sure if you saw it.

One problem I found was getting much interaction/banter going...beyond commenting on your own team, seems a struggle to say much else. Might just be something to think about, sounds good though.

[Cardiomolester]

I was thinking about setting up an experiment about seeing if one team can revolve around one player as in give the 6 highest CA players to the 6 lowest predicted teams in the BSN and BSS. What does everyone think about that? Suggestions are welcome.

[Wegason]

Wegason - in no way a criticism, but it sounds a bit like the 'Dragon's Den' sign up I ran in FM08 (on and off....for a while) with added bells and whistles such as picking players, which is no bad thing. Not sure if you saw it.

One problem I found was getting much interaction/banter going...beyond commenting on your own team, seems a struggle to say much else. Might just be something to think about, sounds good though.

Can't say I've seen that one, I'll look it up.

[Wegason]

I was thinking about setting up an experiment about seeing if one team can revolve around one player as in give the 6 highest CA players to the 6 lowest predicted teams in the BSN and BSS. What does everyone think about that? Suggestions are welcome.

Unless you set it so that they have a future transfer in fifteen years time, the player will just leave.

[coldkohmew]

Maybe a challenge on that you can only call up to 1 player from every club for internationals.

[Wegason]

Wegason - in no way a criticism, but it sounds a bit like the 'Dragon's Den' sign up I ran in FM08 (on and off....for a while) with added bells and whistles such as picking players, which is no bad thing. Not sure if you saw it.

One problem I found was getting much interaction/banter going...beyond commenting on your own team, seems a struggle to say much else. Might just be something to think about, sounds good though.

Wow, just found your Dragons Den on page 3 and its so similar to what I thought was my original idea above!

What a great idea of yours, love the Dragon's Den element, I think I'll be abandoning my idea above and perhaps try something else.

[bermybhoy]

Wow, just found your Dragons Den on page 3 and its so similar to what I thought was my original idea above!

What a great idea of yours, love the Dragon's Den element, I think I'll be abandoning my idea above and perhaps try something else.

Ah didn't want to put you off, sorry. Think you had quite a few elements I hadn't come up with.

The sign up for that was really entertaining it must be said. I just didn't have time to finish it off, draw any conclusions about how people's choices had affected things, etc...plus as I say there was a bit of a lack of interation, which was a shame.

[roberto922]

Wegason - tbf if similiar ideas to existing CSEs were banned we'd be pretty low on numbers, go for it, I don't see the problem unless you were running it the same time

[Whoopy D]

Yeah I agree with roberto, some of the best sign-ups are built on previous peoples ideas

[roberto922]

And the one that you're running has been brilliant so far and I think you're something like the 4th user to try it

[CowSimao]

I've come up with a pretty good idea of an experiment.

The idea is... Nazis vs. Communists!

One team "Nazi Brigade FC" has replaced the Lowest Rep team in German Third Division. Then there's their rival team "Communist Party FC" that has replaced the lowest rep team of Russian First Division (second tier). Yes, there's an advantage for Communists, but part of the experiement is to see if Hitler's super motivational, discipline, and man management skills will make a difference. Yes, Hitler has come back to life. Don't ask how, just know he's ready to conquer the footballing world. On the Communist Party, we have Stalin as manager with Lenin as his assistant. Not as good as Hitler in motivating, etc. but still very very good.

There's a few objectives to this experiment:
1. Who will suceed? Nazis or Communists. Or will both fail due to lack of footballing knowledge back in WW1 and WW2?
2. Can Hitler or Stalin use their country leading skills and turn them into managerial skills?
3. Will the personality of Hitler be the same in the game? He can motivate a crowd and force his underlings to listen, but his temper and lack of professionalism could get him in trouble.

If there's any Nazis or Communists you want to see in the game, make a shout. I've already got a good idea of a Communists team, since there are so many countries with Communist leaders that can fill up a starting 11. But Nazis will be harder.

[Lower Leagues Rule]

Goebels
Do a google search of the German War crimes trials (Nurenburg?) and there were at least some big names there.

[Blanco]

You can't go wrong with Franco and Mussolini... Maybe call them Fascists instead?

[PaulHartman71]

Hindenburg and Goebbels potentially for the Nazi's, van der Lubbe for the Communists?

[Robert_296]

Hindenburg and Goebbels potentially for the Nazi's, van der Lubbe for the Communists?

Hindenburg was President before the Nazi's came to power?

Himler, or will he be the asssitant manager?

[PaulHartman71]

Hindenburg was President before the Nazi's came to power?

he was still heavily involved in the Nazi's rise to power, and played a very important role in it imo

[Robert_296]

he was still heavily involved in the Nazi's rise to power, and played a very important role in it imo

Oh right yeah, Hitler wanted one strong figure like the Kaiser. Oh btw Paul, can you come on msn there is somethnig I want to ask you.

[DodgeeD]

How about adding Che Guevera as the communist's flair Argentine AMC?

[minisav]

Trotsky will have to go into the communists! Small and very intelligent but arrogant. Could make an interesting player.

[PaulHartman71]

how many people would be interested in taking part in a WW-Oceania sort of sign up if I was to start one. I still need to ask WW first, but it would be fairly different with it based on CSE taking over Mediocre European Nations (e.g - Denmark, Austria, Switzerland) etc. Although I haven't really given any detail at all in this bit, these would be my plans -

Plan A - We have 15 CEO's, all of which I'd want to be regulars because I'd be looking to make the CEO position a LOT more involving concentrating not only on the Nations performance in International competition but also the clubs* performance in the Champions League and Europa League, through which the CEO's would earn points. There would also be 1 or 2 (depending on interest) created players for each Nation which users that didn't get to be CEO's would create.

* - Instead of WW's idea of putting the Oceanic clubs in the Scottish Leagues, the CEO's would be editing the stats of the top 4 clubs from their chosen Nation (e.g Sweden would be - IFK Goteborg, AIK, Malmo FF & Elfsborg)

It's just an idea at the moment (why I'm posting it here), but I thought I'd post to see what sort of interest I'd be getting.

[minisav]

Sounds interesting Hopefully you can make it work.

[DodgeeD]

Cue debate over which European nations can be classed as 'mediocre'

Sounds good Paul - I'd definitely be interested.

[roberto922]

Paul by definition then the communist framed in the Reichstag Fire could be included because if it wasn't for him being found in there Hitler couldn't have blamed the Commies and persuade Hindenburg to pass the laws allowing Hitler to basically eliminate the Communists and gain the majority of the Reichstag leading to the enabling law.

Hindenburg was uncomfortable with the Nazis, he only made Hitler chancellor because Von Popen was desperate to get some semblance of power so he persuaded him.

IMO Nazis there has to be the likes of Hitler, Himmler, Roehm, Goering, Goebbels could be in the Nazis, although obviously Roehms power was kinda cut down

Communists you've got plenty of choice, Stalin, Lenin etc. Plenty of strong communists to choose from.

Great idea btw

[mikeytwigge]

i'd be very interested

[PaulHartman71]

I've pm'ed WW about it, and if we get the all clear then I will go ahead and plan with more detail

[spartans5]

Paul, I would definitely be interested in taking part in that sign-up, and would hopefully get a CEO spot, but would just be happy to participate.

[Strawberry Fields]

Hi all, is there any way of viewing the threads that were deleted in 'The Big Change'?

I wasn't registered back then, but I remember there being a challenge about a FourFourTwo article or something? I remember it being good anyways, and wanted to try it

[minisav]

Oh yeah! Wasn't it to do with making an all English team with a team they had chosen?

EDIT: Dafuge has it right

[dafuge]

Hi all, is there any way of viewing the threads that were deleted in 'The Big Change'?

I wasn't registered back then, but I remember there being a challenge about a FourFourTwo article or something? I remember it being good anyways, and wanted to try it

Unfortunately nothing that was deleted can be viewed again

I remember the thread you are thinking of, it was by Ackter and was something to do with ages and nationalities of players in Champions League winning teams. Unfortunately I can't remember much more than that.