Does the ref ever make a wrong decision?

Every time I complain about a ref's decision, it invariably says the ref was correct - even when he was wrong!

Is this because they are 'real name' refs? If so, do you have regen refs and do these make wrong decisions (which are actually mentioned in game)

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They do get it wrong. On many occasions I've complained about the decision and the FA have stayed silent. I actually just got a bit of news this happening to an AI manager on the game I'm currently playing

There are wrong decisions in the game. Twice I've had the FA staying silent, meaning the ref was wrong. However, that's been a very rare incident and even when I know I was right I'm told I was wrong. And as far as I know, there aren't any regen refs. I've not got far enough for all the current refs to be really old, but I have found a Blue Square Premier game with no referee: meaning there aren't enough in the database. I'd be surprised if there were any regen refs even though it is the logical thing to have.

Hopefully the 3D match engine will clear up decisions when it comes to fouls, which at the moment are very ambiguous. I'd rather the referee is always correct (i.e. get rid of this feature), or the system is much improved.

There are wrong decisions in the game. Twice I've had the FA staying silent, meaning the ref was wrong. However, that's been a very rare incident and even when I know I was right I'm told I was wrong. And as far as I know, there aren't any regen refs. I've not got far enough for all the current refs to be really old, but I have found a Blue Square Premier game with no referee: meaning there aren't enough in the database. I'd be surprised if there were any regen refs even though it is the logical thing to have.

Hopefully the 3D match engine will clear up decisions when it comes to fouls, which at the moment are very ambiguous. I'd rather the referee is always correct (i.e. get rid of this feature), or the system is much improved.

I wonder IRL how many managers actually make a formal complaint to the FA during a season about the officials. I know the press issue interviews of managers moaning about the officials but does it actually go any further than that and if so how many times a season?

Lets face it every game you watch moments happen where wrong decisions are made but a goal given when it was offside etc. happens all too often these days and really is part of the wonderful game that is football. Without these dodgy decisions the game would be boring to say the least. Rugby League for instance, although its a very enjoyable game how often do you sit and discuss events in a game weeks after it happened. Take the human error element out of footballing decisions and I think the very nature of the game will disappear.

Take the human error element out of footballing decisions and I think the very nature of the game will disappear.

i totally agree

its why i think video assistance for penalty kicks, offsides etc would kill the game

youd just lose so many talking points and alan hansen would lose about 20% of his post match schtick

"the referee was poooor today, absolutely abysmal"

i totally agree

its why i think video assistance for penalty kicks, offsides etc would kill the game

youd just lose so many talking points and alan hansen would lose about 20% of his post match schtick

"the referee was poooor today, absolutely abysmal"

I am also against video assistance. You have to remember that even video assistance result in ambigenous decisions. I'm sure our friends in England know about what happened in the rugby world cup final when Josh Lewsey "scored" a try. The truth is replaying it over and over again still had some ambiguiety in it. And how about penalty kicks in soccer? How many times have we as fans seen a replay over and over again and still not reached any consensus? Offside goals as well. Everyone has their own interpretation and thus it would not be surprising even if video referees were allowed in soccer that there would still be controvesey as long as we disagree with the video referee's point of view.

Back to the topic, I complain or not complain to the FA mainly because I want my team to rally and up their morale whether the ref was right or not ( I'm like Wenger!!) Therefore, to me, it does not matter whether the ref was right or not because I only want to back my team. And yes, sometimes, the FA is silent and the ref is wrong. I've seen it too.

i totally agree

its why i think video assistance for penalty kicks, offsides etc would kill the game

youd just lose so many talking points and alan hansen would lose about 20% of his post match schtick

"the referee was poooor today, absolutely abysmal"

That argument's a cop out

So what you are saying is football fans thrive on bickering with each other over wrong decisions and we all love insulting referees, and because of that, fair decisions and the right result should be overlooked

I mean honestly, not being able to F and blind at a referee would kill the sport. Then we'd actually have to talk about proper football! Can you imagine!

The mentality of us Brits eh...

Those of you against video evidence how about the Reading - Watford game surely 2 seconds later "wrong decision mate" hmmm

im not saying they thrive on it, just that bad ref decisions are an integral part of football

football would end up losing a lot of its personality - players being booked for being so wound up by a poor decision they scream abuse at the linesman, the likes of alex ferguson going mental at the ref as everyone heads into the tunnel at half time, all the was it/ wasnt it a penalty debates after the match

i dont see why anyone would want to deprive the game of such big talking points

That argument's a cop out

So what you are saying is football fans thrive on bickering with each other over wrong decisions and we all love insulting referees, and because of that, fair decisions and the right result should be overlooked

I mean honestly, not being able to F and blind at a referee would kill the sport. Then we'd actually have to talk about proper football! Can you imagine!

The mentality of us Brits eh...

I'm fully in favour of video assistance in football to aid refereeing decisions.

If only to cut down the sheer magnitude of daft decisions that Man Yoo get in their favour every season, which aids their ascent to the top of the league.

To answer the OP - It bothers me that in FM, when "we" are correct to question a poor decision, all we ever get is silence. Yet if we are wrong, we get punished... Seems a tad unfair IMHO....

All the sports here in North America have video replay. Why not in football? Don't fans just want to see the right decision be made?

I agree with Wee Aja, I think the FA should punish the ref if they blow a call and we complain.

I'm fully in favour of video assistance in football to aid refereeing decisions.

If only to cut down the sheer magnitude of daft decisions that Man Yoo get in their favour every season, which aids their ascent to the top of the league.

To answer the OP - It bothers me that in FM, when "we" are correct to question a poor decision, all we ever get is silence. Yet if we are wrong, we get punished... Seems a tad unfair IMHO....

Life is unfair. It's just life. Does your boss come down when you screw up? but when he screws up, he's silent as well.

In previous versions it used to be possible to make a formal complaint to the FA - not exactly sure why it was taken out, maybe people were over-using it. I only ever saw a referee getting sacked once because of it, though.

Check the referee menu - they get ratings out of 10. The lower the rating the more the errors.

So yes, they do make mistakes; the issue is that in FM08 we have no chance of 'justice' if we complain.

i think the higher you are in reputation the more likely you are to be listened to i reeckon

Life is unfair. It's just life. Does your boss come down when you screw up? but when he screws up, he's silent as well.

Very good point.

Except I am MY boss, and I never make mistakes.

I complain about everything that goes against my team, a majority of the time the FA side with the ref, but sometimes they do saty silent. Recently I had two games in a row where there was a controversial goal conceded and the FA stayed silent on both occasions.

I have some times had a 'FA Silent over Manager' news bulletin, but 8/10 times I have been fined and told off, I don't know how I can say if a goal was a foul or not though, but with Football Manager 09 having the new 3D options then this will be a big change and easier to know

They do make mistakes in FM08. And when you make your complains to the FA, they will remain "silent"...

im not saying they thrive on it, just that bad ref decisions are an integral part of football

football would end up losing a lot of its personality - players being booked for being so wound up by a poor decision they scream abuse at the linesman, the likes of alex ferguson going mental at the ref as everyone heads into the tunnel at half time, all the was it/ wasnt it a penalty debates after the match

i dont see why anyone would want to deprive the game of such big talking points

Bad referee decisions are part of the current game, but they don't have to be, and shouldn't be, at least not on the scale they are at the moment

There's been several bad penalty decisions lately in the premiership, and what about that watford game where the ball went wide and a goal was given, why the hell should such a big sport with so much money involved have to turn in to such a farce?

Just think when someone like Ronaldo dives in the penalty area, the referee thinks it's a penalty, but the video assistant says he has dived. That would be great

I thought that the point of complaining wasn't to achieve "justice", but rather to make the player, who called out the incident, like you more.

In the game you can always tell from the commentary if the ref was right (if the FA will remain silent). If the commentary says "Do Team X have a reason to feel aggrieved about that goal/penalty/whatever?" the ref got it wrong.

And about the video assistance discussion. I want video assistance, just so we can get rid of diving and injury faking! The most pathetic things you can do in a football match IMO.

Bad referee decisions are part of the current game, but they don't have to be, and shouldn't be, at least not on the scale they are at the moment

There's been several bad penalty decisions lately in the premiership, and what about that watford game where the ball went wide and a goal was given, why the hell should such a big sport with so much money involved have to turn in to such a farce?

Just think when someone like Ronaldo dives in the penalty area, the referee thinks it's a penalty, but the video assistant says he has dived. That would be great

imagine that though, no more dives in the box, nobody getting away with anything, no more figures of hate like ronaldo, geoff hurst never scoring that hattrick, no hand of god

controversy is a fantastic part of football, it can make a dull game great or can give a team that havnt got a chance a penalty to hold on to

why does it matter how much money is involved in the sport?

take away the chance of human error in the officials and football would lose a large portion of its heart and soul

he does but its rare!

All the sports here in North America have video replay. Why not in football? Don't fans just want to see the right decision be made?

I agree with Wee Aja, I think the FA should punish the ref if they blow a call and we complain.

The sports on the other side of the lake are stop-start though. Football's a flowing sport. We can't wait five minutes for a video ref to get the decision right (and, as we saw in the rugby world cup final, they won't always get it right), so it's better just to leave it to the ref. Cheaper, too. If we wanted to inforce it in the PL, it would have to be inforced in the BSP as well. That'll be easy. Not.

The 1 thing I absolutely detest about American Football is that a game who's actual game time is only an hour or something like this takes nearly 2! I would hate to think that a game of real football who's game time is an hour and a half would actually go on for almost 3 hours, ESPECIALLY if you are playing Man Yoo! Ronaldo's diving and injury faking itself would add an extra hour to the game straight off let alone anything else that happen's in the game. We need talking points and video technology would wipe out half of these, some ref's are bad enough for stop start stop start let alone having to wait for the video ref to decide what is going on!

Back on subject..... quite often the ref's are wrong for me, yes I've had fines and touchline bans (1 of them being whilst I was Southampton and was due to play Portsmouth, I was NOT happy) but overall yes they make mistakes just like the rest of us! (Except maybe Wee Aja lol)

Those of you against video evidence how about the Reading - Watford game surely 2 seconds later "wrong decision mate" hmmm

True but it is now a talking point and part of footballing history, with video eveidence you probably wouldnt even recall it happening on the walk home let alone months/years after.

Football is about contention/views/interpretation etc. Thats what makes it such a well watched and talked about sport the world over. Can you imgaine soccer am on sky been funny if they had nothing to take the urine out off week in week out.

I totally disagree with most of you in here. Video technology should be brought into the game. Must be brought into the game. I think that the point about talking points is a load of rubbish. Even with video technology you would still have loads of talking points. Just think about how many points Man U and Chelsea would lose a season. It would mean teams would do better and finish higher in the league and it would also mean teams would do worse and finish lower.

I totally disagree with most of you in here. Video technology should be brought into the game. Must be brought into the game. I think that the point about talking points is a load of rubbish. Even with video technology you would still have loads of talking points. Just think about how many points Man U and Chelsea would lose a season. It would mean teams would do better and finish higher in the league and it would also mean teams would do worse and finish lower.

Totally disagree, Teams finish higher because of better players not cause of dodgy refs. OK a odd goal might happen or be disallowed that shouldnt have been but over the season it all evens out. Can you just imagine match of the day without talking points. Come on have you ever watch a Rugby broadcast program and thought my god that was interesting. Infact the last time anything exciting happened was when the try for England in the World Cup was disallowed via a Video Referee which SKY showed over and over to be a TRY sometimes and not some other times depending on angle etc. The only ever noticeable contention ever created by a video ref todate.

My point been the interesting fact happened because of Human Interpretation, in this case not by a individual referee but by the several video referee's who between them got it wrong or right depending which camp your in and made the game much more rememberable.

World Cup 1966 anyone Russian linesman, talking point still to this day!

Get over it, Errors Happen, Sometimes in your favour sometimes not and should remain firmly a part of the game. Managers only whinge when it goes against them, how many managers complain to the referee that a goal they scored was offside.

Go to a live football game support your team, call offside when an opposing player goes through on goal, only to watch on tv to find you got it wrong, and vice versa as your striker sinks a beauty but later on tv you realise it should never of been.

Totally disagree, Teams finish higher because of better players not cause of dodgy refs. OK a odd goal might happen or be disallowed that shouldnt have been but over the season it all evens out. Can you just imagine match of the day without talking points. Come on have you ever watch a Rugby broadcast program and thought my god that was interesting. Infact the last time anything exciting happened was when the try for England in the World Cup was disallowed via a Video Referee which SKY showed over and over to be a TRY sometimes and not some other times depending on angle etc. The only ever noticeable contention ever created by a video ref todate.

My point been the interesting fact happened because of Human Interpretation, in this case not by the an individual referee but by the several video referee's who between them got it wrong or right depending which camp your in and made the game much more rememberable.

World Cup 1966 anyone Russian linesman, talking point still to this day!

Get over it, Errors Happen, Sometimes in your favour sometimes not and should remain firmly a part of the game. Managers only whinge when it goes against them, how many managers complain to the referee that a goal they scored was offside.

Go to a live football game support your team, call offside when an opposing player goes through on goal, only to watch on tv to find you got it wrong, and vice versa as your striker sinks a beauty but later on tv you realise it should never of been.

I know what your saying and I agree with some of what your saying. But In general there a lot of mistakes from referees which heavily influence the game. Look at the Watford Reading game. Now what will happen if Watford get relegated by 1 point? And that point that they got relegated by could have been enough if the goal was not allowed and instead a goal kick was ordered.

I know what your saying and I agree with some of what your saying. But In general there a lot of mistakes from referees which heavily influence the game. Look at the Watford Reading game. Now what will happen if Watford get relegated by 1 point? And that point that they got relegated by could have been enough if the goal was not allowed and instead a goal kick was ordered.

True and I can see your point also, but how many Reading players actually went to the Ref and said sorry mate you were wrong, it was the back boards not a goal and how many Watford players would complain if it was given for them instead.

Yes indeed this game could prove costly but then again would Watford should this senario of relegation happen, go through all the other games where I am sure they will pick up points because of some decisions in their favour and complain about them aswell? I very much doubt it don't you?

True and I can see your point also, but how many Reading players actually went to the Ref and said sorry mate you were wrong, it was the back boards not a goal and how many Watford players would complain if it was given for them instead.

Yes indeed this game could prove costly but then again would Watford should this senario of relegation happen, go through all the other games where I am sure they will pick up points because of some decisions in their favour and complain about them aswell? I very much doubt it don't you?

Again I agree with some of what you've said and disagree with some also. But to the point of the Reading players. Some of them were quoted in The Sun as saying that the "goal" wasn't a goal and one or two even said that they laughed at the decision at the time of the time it was happening. But we'll end it there at a point where I don't think this point can go much further. Thanks for the discussion though

Yes the referee does very rarely get it wrong. See below

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm62/PhilP1208/Miracle.jpg

Almost fainted when that happened...

Wow, what an interesting read this thread has turned into.

Anyway, my 2 cents on video replay is that while it's generally good for the game, there has to be a limit at some point. One of the greatest things about football (especially the premier league) is the quick flow of the game, and I can tell you, being in Toronto and watching a lot of North American sports, waiting for a video replay decision can absolutely kill a game's momentum, and it's just terribly hard to get back into it again. So while I think it's great that it will rid the dodgy decisions, I'm not so sure about the referee blowing play dead in the middle of the game and go stare at a TV monitor for 3 minutes.

itd be interesting to do a poll on this board about whether people would like to see video assistance brought into football

im not sure how to do that though, or whether itd be allowed

is there anyway the OP can edit this thread to include a poll, so as not to take up too much board room on the same subject?

Wow, what an interesting read this thread has turned into.

Anyway, my 2 cents on video replay is that while it's generally good for the game, there has to be a limit at some point. One of the greatest things about football (especially the premier league) is the quick flow of the game, and I can tell you, being in Toronto and watching a lot of North American sports, waiting for a video replay decision can absolutely kill a game's momentum, and it's just terribly hard to get back into it again. So while I think it's great that it will rid the dodgy decisions, I'm not so sure about the referee blowing play dead in the middle of the game and go stare at a TV monitor for 3 minutes.

Yeah, maybe video replay isn't right for football.

The North American sports kill momentum all the times anyways with the amount of stoppages there are:rolleyes:, staring at a TV monitor for 3 minutes once or twice a game doesn't make much of a difference.

the only way i can see it working in soccer is if they wait till the next stoppage in play (like a throw in) to look at the tape. but then what happens if the next stoppage is a goal?

On football focus a few years ago they had 3 pundits and they analized different thing on video to see about video technology in football. When they were shown different penalties they had different opinions on if it was one or not. So is it the ref or the 4th official that decides if its a penalty or not? Does this mean the game will be stopped everytime there is a penalty decision to be made?

I am all for goal line technology as there have been some terrible decisions over the years about the ball crossing the line Reading and Mendes come to mind straight away. I am undecided about video for penalties, while it would make the game fairer it would stop the flow of the match. I am really undecided.

On to the topic of the thread I just started a game as Getafe and twice in a row the FA has remained silent but twice in a row before that I was warned and fined. It does happen but mostly us managers are wrong according to the FA.