Unhappy from going to reserves?

Can this be changed? Because only put players in the reserves to sort out a formation, contracts, looking at positions, etc. Its only for like 3 seconds anyway and the player whines. Could it be like for an extended period of time (like a match or two) that they whine about it? Or just even remove it all together as there are squad status anyway. At least make it an option to remove. Its annoying that I have to see over 20 players on one screen.

Use the filters. Duh.

The filers don't take into account every single possibility. Like I just let the AsstMan pick the team but I normally want him for cup matches to pick players from that haven't played a lot but still are in the first team. So I send the players that have played a lot to the reserves. And let him pick from what is left. But then the entire team whines about being sent to the reserves.

I'm amazed more people haven't got annoyed by this.

The first thing I've always done when taking over a new club is demote everyone to the reserves and then promote the players I think are good enough back to the first team. I find it a really quick and effective way of getting to know a new squad and its weaknesses.

It doesn't make sense to me. Until I've pressed continue how did the players even find out I have theoretically moved them about. Have they bugged my office?

I genuinely don't like this feature simply because there's more uses for the reserves team than just what is being shown. The only real distinction (besides reserves matches) between the first-team and reserves is the training sessions and I would prefer a disciplinary act to demote a player to train with the reserves.

The teams are only a way of organising your team and clearly people use them for other things than just actually differentiating between first-team and reserve team, so I think it would be best if this feature were removed.

Yeah, things like this should only register after pressing continue like they always have done. It's very easy to accidentally click on a wrong option in FM's UI, as the right click menus are overly nested and often unresponsive. The player shouldn't be getting punished for an accidental misclick.

I'm amazed more people haven't got annoyed by this.

The first thing I've always done when taking over a new club is demote everyone to the reserves and then promote the players I think are good enough back to the first team. I find it a really quick and effective way of getting to know a new squad and its weaknesses.

It doesn't make sense to me. Until I've pressed continue how did the players even find out I have theoretically moved them about. Have they bugged my office?

Not dismissing your concerns, but why not do it the other way? I put everyone - all youth teamers and reserves - in the first team then demote/free transfer as appropriate.

Apparently you can't always do that either, GillsMan, as some youth/reserve players can get annoyed at being shuffled around squads.

Apparently you can't always do that either' date=' GillsMan, as some youth/reserve players can get annoyed at being shuffled around squads.[/quote']

I'd've thought that would be an exciting time for a youngster, getting put all over the place (as long as he is getting minutes). Gerard Piqué once did an interview for us after a Reserves match after being on the bench for the first-team (when he was still a Manchester United player) talking about how good it felt yet keeping your feet on the ground and focussing on taking it one match at a time - irrespective of the "sub-team" you were in.

It's not even that since they get annoyed merely at being 'theoretically' moved around. The time doesn't pass until you've clicked continue so how can they actually even know about it unless they're all sitting in your office closely observing every note you dare to put on the paper?

It also annoys me, as I demote players to the youth team at the begin of each season and then promote the worthy ones to the First and Reserve teams. I always had the idea of having another, virtual squad tab where you can put all your players into for that purpose. Later in the season you could put all your unwanted players into that team to keep the regular squads free from unhappy players and signal the reserve manager that he should use these players.

By the way I definitely agree that players should I only start to whinge once you've pressed confirm (either that or have a confirmation screen whenever you try to demote players which I DON'T suggest).

What is just as annoying is that the assistant team report screen seems to have been changed from '10 where if you changed tactic it updated instantly whereas now you have to continue to get it update. I'll often move players between squads and look at the assistant reports to see how different tactics might work out. Especially when joining a new club and trying to find out the best formation and squads with unfamilar players.

They don't get upset if you tick the 'reserves until match fit' option whilst the first team squad option is also ticked.

I think it's good the player reacts immediately, it's as it should be. Some things are happening in real time and some will take a little while to fully process and it's only natural that a player of any kind will become anxious about being shuffled about - unless you talk to him! I moved one of my midfielders to the reserve team and then I took the time to have a chat about it. He agreed that his form wasn't up to par.

That whole sequence was probably one of the most satisfying, realistic piece of football management I've ever experienced. This was in the demo and if the full version offers something similar on a regular basis I will be a very happy camper.

"I think it's good the player reacts immediately, it's as it should be."

Garbage.

Real world: Manager puts players accidentally in "the reserves" (as if there's such a distinction in real life when training between games) for all of five seconds. Player gets the raving hump and "won't talk to manager" or some such infantile claptrap they've insisted on putting in.

Real world manager wants to say "it was mere oversight that you were notionally in a reserve squad for five seconds, get over it you little girl" but can't because...why? Apparently "that's as it should be"?

These constant SI ****-up apologists making these boneheaded comparasons with "the real world" get right up my bracket. Players going off on one because a gamer moved them around either accidentally or as an organisation tool is just plain stupid.

Do I take it I now can't shift a reserve temporarily to the 1st team if I want to stop him playing a reserve match? Do we now have the option to tell the reserve team manager not to play player x in case he's needed for the first team in two days time (cue the fanboys telling me I should take charge of the reserves)? What if I want to play a reserve in the first team for a couple of games because of injury? Does he get the hump about being moved to the 1st and then back again? Does he get the hump about being in the reserves but getting selected for the 1st?

What if I highlight several players to change training schedules, then forget to unhighlight the lot of them when intending to move one player between squads? The whole lot of them are demaining transfers?

So, how does this test my ability as a manager? How is this a legitimate parallel to the real world? "Jose Mourinho is a bad manager because last week he accidentally put Christiano Ronaldo into the reserves for three seconds".

But, hey, in FM the player should react immediately. This feature would be idiotic even if didn't take effect until we hit "process". What, exactly, is wrong with the way it was? Whose genius idea was it to make moving players about now an offence?

I can't play the demo because Steam is a pile of cack, but this whole squad-sensitive rubbish and player conversations apparently ending in almost certain diva player reactions sounds like a potential game breaker.

What absul

I think it's good the player reacts immediately, it's as it should be. Some things are happening in real time and some will take a little while to fully process and it's only natural that a player of any kind will become anxious about being shuffled about - unless you talk to him! I moved one of my midfielders to the reserve team and then I took the time to have a chat about it. He agreed that his form wasn't up to par.

Okay suppose I agree it is good they react instantly. How is the player getting the info he has been dropped to the reserve squad? Try it with a player away on international duty and they get annoyed immediately when unless they are telepathic they have no real way to find out that information for hours if not days. Now take the assistant manager team report, I'm having a nice chat with my colleague about the use of players in a 4-4-2, I switch the tactics to a 4-2-3-1 (which is one of tactics in match preperation and has been very game for the last two months) and he replies "No, sorry Guv I've got to go home now. We'll talk about that tactic in a couple days" What?!!

It's the inconsistancy that is irritating. If very option had an instant reaction that would be okay-ish, but he fact that some are instant and some are delayed removes any talk of realism.

These constant SI ****-up apologists making these boneheaded comparasons with "the real world" get right up my bracket. Players going off on one because a gamer moved them around either accidentally or as an organisation tool is just plain stupid.

Mate, just because you've missed out on your anger management courses for a few months doesn't give you the right to come here to rave and rant. I'm not sure you understood what I ment, probably you didn't seeing as you posted a wall-o'-text tantrum in response. We both know there is no manager IRL that puts any of his players in the Reserves for 2 or 3 seconds so let's just don't argue about that all right?

You apparently have problems with something I like to call "flexible thinking" so I'll tell you; in the game, the action of moving one of your players into the Reserves for 1 second 1 day or 1 week is the same thing as a manager IRL walking up to one of his players saying: "listen, I'm gonna put you in the reserves for a while. Don't ask me what the reason is, that's just how it is okey? All right then, cheers". If that'd happen in real life the player would naturally get very confused, and depending on the ego, quite upset with you.

I can't play the demo because Steam is a pile of cack, but this whole squad-sensitive rubbish and player conversations apparently ending in almost certain diva player reactions sounds like a potential game breaker.

I play the demo perfectly fine without involving Steam into the equation so you need to sort it out. Preferably after you've rejoined your anger management course.

What absul

Ran out of steam (pun intended), huh?

It's the inconsistancy that is irritating. If very option had an instant reaction that would be okay-ish, but he fact that some are instant and some are delayed removes any talk of realism.

The illusion of inconsistancy comes from the fact that the game is semi turn-based. Some decisions you make will have an immediate consequence whereas other decisions you make might have a long-term effect that isn't apparent right away. Although the game has become more graphical than ever before there are still gaps in logic you need to fill in yourself, the developers can't do everything for you.

This does sound very annoying and completely uneeded.

Although the game has become more graphical than ever before there are still gaps in logic you need to fill in yourself, the developers can't do everything for you.

I'm really just annoyed that something that I use a lot in FM (team report) has been turned from instant reaction to turn-based making it a massive hassle .

The illusion of inconsistancy comes from the fact that the game is semi turn-based. Some decisions you make will have an immediate consequence whereas other decisions you make might have a long-term effect that isn't apparent right away. Although the game has become more graphical than ever before there are still gaps in logic you need to fill in yourself, the developers can't do everything for you.

The game has become more of a chore with the two changes mentioned which, however you like to twist them with your 'flexible thinking', don't really help in making the game a more enjoyable nor realistic experience. Moving a player into the reserves on your personal workspace - which is what the squad screens in FM are - has never been interpreted as a direct communication with your players nor should it. A manager doesn't have to instantly announce every private decision he makes to his players. Especially if it's just 'work in progress' - which it is until you want to confirm it by pressing continue.

The game has become more of a chore with the two changes mentioned

It's become a chore for you' date=' I'm not too bothered about it. Opinions are opinions and ranting about it like some stuffed-up maniac (what pjW did) isn't going to change that fact.

A manager doesn't have to instantly announce every private decision he makes to his players. Especially if it's just 'work in progress' - which it is until you want to confirm it by pressing continue.

This time around the players don't like you to shuffle them about as if you were playing sudoku with your own team. I think that's realistic and no manager in real life would do that so the game mirrors reality. I'm not entirely sure every player reacts the same way either, maybe it's just certain players that gets their ego bruised by being moved albeit temporarily.

I'm really just annoyed that something that I use a lot in FM (team report) has been turned from instant reaction to turn-based making it a massive hassle .

I'm not a developer and I don't know what their thinking was behind this so it might be something someone might ask them when the time is right.

This time around the players don't like you to shuffle them about as if you were playing sudoku with your own team. I think that's realistic and no manager in real life would do that so the game mirrors reality. I'm not entirely sure every player reacts the same way either, maybe it's just certain players that gets their ego bruised by being moved albeit temporarily.

I'm not moving them around at all though. They've not had a chance to go anywhere as time hasn't passed. I'm making plans on squad management, plans that by all means should stay private unless the players, as Hamuel suggested above, have planted a bug in my office and are all sitting there observing every move I make.

It's simple really - if the players had this reaction after pressing continue then your arguments would become relevant, although it still adds little else to the game than frustration (to most of the players). As it is now it's just bad game design.

i think the assman report thing is a bug, btw...

“in the game, the action of moving one of your players into the Reserves for 1 second 1 day or 1 week is the same thing as a manager IRL walking up to one of his players saying: "listen, I'm gonna put you in the reserves for a while.”

Absolute, complete and utter garbage.

If that’s the case, why didn’t it provoke these absurd reactions in previous versions? Why has the logic changed so radically now? Where IS the logic, come to that. Like I said in the original post, where is the logical real world comparison? It certainly isn’t in the absurdity you just posted.

How does any of this test your ability on FM? “Gamer x is rubbish because he accidentally put player y in the reserves for a second”. It’s beyond idiotic.

It’s exactly these sorts of fatuous comparisons to real life that I’m talking about. Is there no sudden demented, nonsensical change of an existing feature you wouldn’t defend with some sort of “let’s compare it to real life to excuse it” double think?

How about teamtalks next? Hmmm, let’s think…I know! If the human player accidently clicks “Angry” after a 5-0 away win then clears it and changes it to “Delighted” let’s program it so the players will all demand a transfer! Never mind that he/she didn’t hit “process”. Genius! That’ll teach ‘em to buy our game! And don’t worry, the fanboys will be out saying “It’s the same as in real life when the manager shouts at his players after a win and gives no reason.”

I would only have assumed this was an oversight on SI’s part; if they haven’t declared it as something to be fixed, they deserve flack because it is quite fantastically stupid. Anyone who defends something so clearly daft deserves the same.

Yeah things should be processed until you click continue imo

I'm in agreement with the complainers. FM isn't entirely tbs, in the sense you can't hit ^Z - but stuff like this should not affect the game until you press "Continue".

The old system was better. All this is what you see. A player should only whine if he stays in the reserves for a while. In the old FM the player would whine about not play first team football. Why can't that stay the same? I use the reserves and u19 to sort out players for a particular match. I like using youth players for easier/useless matches and its a pain trying to sort out 30 players on one sheet or across 3 and then taking into account that how many each position I need. In the old FM all i did was send players over X amount of apps in that season to reserves. And let the asst manager pick from what was left. Not all positions would be filled anyway so when i went to match the asst man filled in the rest with the other senior players.

The old system was better. All this is what you see. A player should only whine if he stays in the reserves for a while. In the old FM the player would whine about not play first team football. Why can't that stay the same? I use the reserves and u19 to sort out players for a particular match. I like using youth players for easier/useless matches and its a pain trying to sort out 30 players on one sheet or across 3 and then taking into account that how many each position I need. In the old FM all i did was send players over X amount of apps in that season to reserves. And let the asst manager pick from what was left. Not all positions would be filled anyway so when i went to match the asst man filled in the rest with the other senior players.

Can't you just use filters?

Can't you just use filters?

The point is, some users are used to using the Reserves and Youth squads as "categories" as opposed to different teams with presumably different "training groups" (in the sense that the first-team and reserves train separately), and as a result some users are upset with this "feature".

I still think it's a good and realistic feature. The Youth and Reserve Squad isn't supposed to be a dumping ground so you can play Sudoku with your team. I do agree that it's a little bit harsh to have the players react immediately, surely there must be some kind of middle ground here.

“in the game, the action of moving one of your players into the Reserves for 1 second 1 day or 1 week is the same thing as a manager IRL walking up to one of his players saying: "listen, I'm gonna put you in the reserves for a while.”

Absolute, complete and utter garbage.

If that’s the case, why didn’t it provoke these absurd reactions in previous versions? Why has the logic changed so radically now? Where IS the logic, come to that. Like I said in the original post, where is the logical real world comparison? It certainly isn’t in the absurdity you just posted.

The reason why it didn't provoke the same reactions in older games is because SI have added more personality to the players. Before they would get upset but it took time as they saw that they weren't getting first team games, in FM11 it's almost instananeous just like it is in real life.

Anyway switching all of the players to the reserves and then only those you want to keep back to the first team is not a very realistic thing to do. No new manager IRL will tell all of the players thet they're in the reserves until he has had a good look at them. He would promote or relegate players to or from the reserves during pre-season.

The thing is, we don't really put the players in the reserve, we put them back into the first squad in the very same (ingame) minute. As someone said before.. unless the players are spying on you in your office all day, they wouldn't even know that you 'considered' putting them into the reserve.

This annoyed me a lot as well, I hope it can be fixed in the first patch.

The reason why it didn't provoke the same reactions in older games is because SI have added more personality to the players. Before they would get upset but it took time as they saw that they weren't getting first team games, in FM11 it's almost instananeous just like it is in real life.

Anyway switching all of the players to the reserves and then only those you want to keep back to the first team is not a very realistic thing to do. No new manager IRL will tell all of the players thet they're in the reserves until he has had a good look at them. He would promote or relegate players to or from the reserves during pre-season.

You're misunderstanding the issue. No one is actually placed in the reserves until you press continue. What you see on the screen is how you sort it out like in the manager's notebook. The team sheet is only printed and posted when you press continue. But right now it is as if all the players can literally see in your head and reading over your shoulder. If I place a player in reserves then I'll make his squad status that. Thats the point of squad status.

Also, I am not so sure but it might also have to do with a player's personality and perhaps his view on you, the manager. As this is not true for all the players I have moved to the reserves or vice versa. Some just stand out but this is by no way a game breaker etc. If SI deems it necessary, a patch or two can easily sort it out!

Still the best FM game ever!

assume this wasn't fixed then?

You're misunderstanding the issue. No one is actually placed in the reserves until you press continue. What you see on the screen is how you sort it out like in the manager's notebook. The team sheet is only printed and posted when you press continue. But right now it is as if all the players can literally see in your head and reading over your shoulder. If I place a player in reserves then I'll make his squad status that. Thats the point of squad status.

When you place a player in the reserves without having the filter that allows the reserves to be shown selected does he disappear from the list?

If so then the game has put him into the reserves and at the same time run the code that updates his mood. If you don't want the game to update his mood when you do that and only when you press continue then it's not a bug, you want a new feature.

When you place a player in the reserves without having the filter that allows the reserves to be shown selected does he disappear from the list?

If so then the game has put him into the reserves and at the same time run the code that updates his mood. If you don't want the game to update his mood when you do that and only when you press continue then it's not a bug, you want a new feature.

Well not really, because time hasn't actually passed when you move a player - time only passes when you hit continue. It's unexpected behaviour and therefore a bug.

It's not a new feature either - because this was the case last season! We want a new feature - removed.

Why don't you just make them available for the reserves instead of moving them to the reserves? That's what I do, and I use the filters when I want to select a squad from the reserves or under 18s. But I understand your concerns, everyone has their little way of doing things and when that flow gets changed they get annoyed.

My pet peev this year is with the tactics screen, that when I click on a player on the left the formation screen changes to the player instruction screen, I hate that, but each to their own - just have to get on with it.

x42bn6 that's not strictly true, many of the games features this year are in real time, i.e player, agent discussions are all in real time.

It's amazing to me that there are a few people on here that just don't get it. Of course like a famous sportscaster here in the States says "People that don't get it, don't get that they don't get it"

The First Team, Reserve and Youth Squad should represent a LIST on a desk of the manager.

The manager is moving players around. Like a depth chart for American Football. To see where players line up. To see how lineups might look for the next game.

The players aren't actually IN THE ROOM when a manager is doing this. They are names on a list.

The changes and notification to the players SHOULD NOT HAPPEN until you TURN THE LIST IN ie by pressing continue. It's not about filters, it's not about settings. It's about a manager being a proper manager and testing the waters in his head.

I don't understand why that is so hard to comprehend. THE PLAYERS SHOULDN'T KNOW ANYTHING in your head!

Perhaps rather then SHOUTING about it here you should post it in the BUGS forum.

I've just had a look in the bugs forum and so far no one of you complaining about this feature have posted about it there as being a bug.

I still don't see it as a bug but perhaps if all of you post about it in the same thread in the bugs forum SI might take more notice of it and make changes.

pointless posting about it in the bugs forum as a/ it's clearly a "feature" and not a bug; b/ it's a scientifically proven fact that no-one from SI actually READS the bugs forum.

my biggest issue with this feature is simple: it further muddies the waters between what is your personal operating space within the game, and what is actual "game space". i.e. previously, it was not unreasonable to assume that the squad screen is the equivalent to your office as a manager. you can sort through your players availability/contracts/stats whatever. moving players to different squads was akin to shuffling paper around your desk. pressing continue would therefore be akin to going and telling said players they're now training and playing with the reserves...

now... that's not the case. now, it's your not your personal working space. now, you can somehow accidentally demote your key player to the reserves for all of two seconds and have him demand a transfer because of it. can't even pull the old "Nah, I was just kidding mate" line either.

SAF: Wayne, you're in the reserves.

Rooney: WHAT!? No I'm f&*$ing not! I want a transfer. Gimme!

SAF: Whoops, my bad. Did I say Wayne? I meant to say Mame. Oh, and I meant to say it TO Mame.

Rooney: Don't care. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Transfer! Now!

SAF: But... but... you're in the senior squad. You weren't even in the reserves for five seconds! In fact, you weren't even in the reserves at all!

Rooney: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. TRANSFER!

yeah, whatever.

Even if its a feature and not a bug then if enough people have an issue about it and post it in the same thread then SI will at least take notice and add it to the feature request database for FM12 or possibly even add it to a future patch.

Moaning about it here certainly won't make SI change it, nor make SI more sympathetic to your problems.

Even if its a feature and not a bug then if enough people have an issue about it and post it in the same thread then SI will at least take notice and add it to the feature request database for FM12 or possibly even add it to a future patch.

Moaning about it here certainly won't make SI change it, nor make SI more sympathetic to your problems.

Why will it make them 'more sympathetic' if you post it in the wrong forum? Aren't they supposed to read GD as well for feedback? Besides, everything is in the same thread, this one right here.

I'm amazed more people haven't got annoyed by this.

The first thing I've always done when taking over a new club is demote everyone to the reserves and then promote the players I think are good enough back to the first team. I find it a really quick and effective way of getting to know a new squad and its weaknesses.

It doesn't make sense to me. Until I've pressed continue how did the players even find out I have theoretically moved them about. Have they bugged my office?

If you did that with Drogba the minute you arrived at Chelesea would he get the hump?

As mentioned I'd just use filters