The Football Mafia negotiations

Negotiating player buys feels like negotiating with the Mafia. You either accept whatever they want at first, or you're screwed. The price will keep going up, and at some point you'll have to pull out.

Here is a case in point.

I see Roma make a bid for a striker I've been interested in for some time. He is worth 3.4 million. My scouts say Frankfurt want 10.75 million for him.

Roma offered a structured deal worth 11.5 million. It was accepted. For some reason the AI always know what to offer for it to get accepted.

I offered a structured deal worth 11 million

They want 16 million, with most up front, a player, and future fees from player sale.

I offer them a deal worth 11.5 million, meeting some of their requirements.

They come back. But now the price has risen to 16 million, against a huge bulk up front.

I offer them 12 million, using their proposals for fees on matches and goals.

Now they want 23 million. 17 million is up front. Even more than the whole of the last deal they wanted.

I offer them 13.5 million, again using their structure but changing money up front and over 48 months (as it's way OTT)

You guessed right. They spiked it up again. Now the price is 28.5 million. For a player worth 3.4... 24.5 is up front. Again more than the entire last deal.

I offer them 15 million.

Again they increase it, but "only" to 29 million.

I offer them 15.5 million. At this point it's getting so expensive I'm not sure it's worth it. And still they want almost twice what I offer. And it's going up all the time.

Sweet Jesus. Now they want 27.3 million. It went down. A little. Not from the first though, which was 16 million, remember?

I offer 16 million.

They want 27.

I offer 16.5

They want 28.1. No, strike that. The real value is 33.5 million, when future fees are included. I've been quoting the value in the news report, which is too low. My offer is correct though, as I use the value from the offer screen. So we're miles apart, and they keep widening it.

I offer 17 million

They want 33. (This is now correct)

At this point I remove all the crap, and offer them 5 million up front plus 10 million over 2 years. 15 million.

Oooooh, in the name of all that is Holy... They accepted!!! :faint: :shock: :horror: :jawdrop:

So after 10 or so rounds they finally accept. I don't have the foggiest idea why the AI do things like this, but it's beyond annoying. In real negotiations the two parties inch closer to each other, until they reach a deal both parties can agree to. Or they pull out. One party doesn't make "an offer you can't refuse". And if you do, keep increasing the price.

These kind of deals happen all the time, and it is really frustrating. I could probably have dropped all the crap and offered them 12 million up front and they would have accepted, as they in the end accepted something well under what the wanted. But to keep increasing their demand while I increase my bids is just ridiculous.

[Plays the tune from the Godfather in the background...]

It annoys the hell out of me how the AI teams never seem to haggle over transfer fees. As you say they know what they have to offer so that's what they offer. Incredibly unrealisitc.

Yes, I agree. It looks like they know how much the other team want for the player, and offer exactly this. While we have to second guess and then haggle to the cows come home. It gets very tedious and annoying.

And if we try to haggle when they want one of our players, they pull out altogether

For a long time now, if I see a player worth £3.4m and several teams have bidded £11.5m for him, I know I'll need about £16m upfront for him and offer a higher contract for him to choose my club, even though I manage a better team

When you offer them your deal, make sure it's non-negotiable. It works for me everytime if I match what my scouts said.

Say, said team wants 10 mill for a player. I offer them 5 upfront and 5 in 18 months. They reply saying they want something outragerous, like 40 mill.

That's an indication that you reached their price. I offer them again those 10 mill, non negotiable. I failed only once.

Making it non-negotiable does help yea as bskubs stated. Offer them say, 12m, non-negotiable and hopefully they agree. Might not work every time but I'll guarantee you it will work most times.

Its yet another way the ai cheats, they always know the exact amount to offer. I dont even bother with negations any more. I look up the asking price in a scout tool because if the ai cheat, then Im going to cheat to match them. Saves a lot of stress.

The upping of the price in incredibly stupid too, its been going on for years and never been fixed. This and the newgens are things that look like they will never be fixed.

The AI baffles me at times......it can definitely be extremely frustrating because at times the AI seems to have the haggling abilities of peter griffin.....

It takes the fun out of the game...

Its yet another way the ai cheats, they always know the exact amount to offer. I dont even bother with negations any more. I look up the asking price in a scout tool because if the ai cheat, then Im going to cheat to match them. Saves a lot of stress.

The upping of the price in incredibly stupid too, its been going on for years and never been fixed. This and the newgens are things that look like they will never be fixed.

There's no cheating going on with AI. It's all in your mind.

You too can scout a player and also will know how much he'd cost to acquire. Sometimes you are give a specific number, and other times you are given a price range. At times you can even have a big advantage using this over the AI. Some clubs will actually be willing to sell players at greatly reduced prices. I've found players that were valued over 2 million, but was able to buy for a measly 150 or 200K. I simply scouted the players prior to biding.

Its yet another way the ai cheats, they always know the exact amount to offer. I dont even bother with negations any more. I look up the asking price in a scout tool because if the ai cheat, then Im going to cheat to match them. Saves a lot of stress.

The upping of the price in incredibly stupid too, its been going on for years and never been fixed. This and the newgens are things that look like they will never be fixed.

absolute rubbish, negotiations can be frustrating, i agree but the AI certainly does not cheat. Just recently i signed a young striker over the summer who i had my eye on the whole season before, in january of the past season (before i signed him) a bunch of teams came in making various offers but they were all rejected, they kept negotiating but never offered what the club wanted so they kept getting rejected. Then at the end of the season i offered what my scouts said they would want and they accepted straight away.

I'm not defending transfers as they do need work but to say the AI cheats by saying they 'always' know the right offer to make is ridiculous. How would you know all the offers AI clubs are making on players they sign? I see heaps of cases just from players on my shortlist where AI clubs are negotiating but obviously you would ignore those cases to support your argument.

Easiest way to bring it down is to negotiate lower than what you originally offered. Usually I'll go in with an offer of around 8/9m for a player worth about 5m, they go up to 10/11 so I go down to 7 then when they come back I go up to 7.25 and then up to 7.5 before going back down to 6.5 and building from there. It doesn't always work, and it can be quite a bit of hassle but you can shave a couple of million off of transfer deals at that range.

It is very counter intuitive though, the most bizarre thing of all is teams transfer listing a player, specifying they want a certain amount for him and then when you put in a bid for the amount they ask for they decide they want more. There almost does seem to be a thing where the AI can get the right bid at the right time for players, whereas 9 times out of 10 we end up paying through the nose largely owing to factors such as not realising when a player is on the fringes at his current club and not needed etc.

I find that the times I REALLY grossly overpay for players are when I'm impatient or have an urgent need to fill.

Otherwise, I've usually had success when I wait for teams to offer me their players. I add all the players I have interest in to my shortlist and within 2-3 years a couple of them usually becomes unhappy and clubs will offer them around for a really decent price. However I usually only manage top clubs so I don't know if this is also the case with lower league teams, and it really doesn't work if you only have one player in your sights.

There was one save where I managed Man Utd and Wolfsburg offered me Dzeko for 9.5 million and Arsenal(!) offered me Ramsey for 15 million, all during the same January transfer window. I think it was 2012 when it happened. Needless to say I creamed my pants.

The main thing is that is really does feel like the AI is Peter Griffin at times (as mentioned above). Just pulling numbers out of its arse and going up and down (though mostly up). It doesn't feel like a real negotiation, which is what we want.

The main thing is that is really does feel like the AI is Peter Griffin at times (as mentioned above). Just pulling numbers out of its arse and going up and down (though mostly up). It doesn't feel like a real negotiation, which is what we want.

that can often be the case but try whatother people have suggested by changing your offers to non-negotiable and see what happens.

Maybe that works as a workaround then, I don't know. Either way, this needs looking into as it simply isn't working the way it's probably intended.

I did buy the player in the end for 15 million, so will see how it pans out. It's just that this kind of negotiation tactics is rather odd, and seems like something taken out of the Mafia Dons' Cookbook.

There's no cheating going on with AI. It's all in your mind.

They always know how much to offer instantly. If it was down to the scouts, the scouts would have different abilities and the offers would all be slightly different but they are all exactly the same and what the other club would accept.

Not that unrealistic. Look how much Ibrahimovic went for from Inter to Barcelona.

It's not the price, but the negotiations.

The whole point of negotiations is to find a middle ground. You want to pay X but they want Y, so the eventual figure will be somewhere in the middle.

The only time the price goes up during negotiations is if the circumstances change. Say Manchester City come into the equation - the required bid will doubtless increase. Or the player makes his first International appearance during negotiations and devastates the opposition, sending his reputation through the roof.

Otherwise in general the required bid will never go up. It may stay constant (i.e. the potential seller sticks to his guns) but if it goes up for no reason that's doing business in bad faith and if that happens consistently I'd expect the club as a whole to be looked upon poorly.

Just scout the player, that way you get a value they will accept. My scouts said Barzagli could be got for £10m so i offered £7m and they told me they wanted about £15m so i increased it to £10m and they accepted. Its not broken, just scout.

Just scout the player, that way you get a value they will accept. My scouts said Barzagli could be got for £10m so i offered £7m and they told me they wanted about £15m so i increased it to £10m and they accepted. Its not broken, just scout.

It doesn't always work, your scouts are not perfect and they can get the value way off.

But I agree, an up to date scout report is a great place to start. Trouble is, the price does tend to creep up as you negotiate. Looking at Rodwell in my save at the moment, start of season 3, Everton wanted £15 million according to my scout report, several offers later, my scout now says Everton want £34 million. At no point have Everton entertained my offer, or even given me a figure that they want, but it does prove that interest can force the price up.

Try dealing with the Italian Mafia of Inter Milan in the first season

I cannot strike a deal with Santon, they refuse to even negotiate! Rejected from £12m to £40m upfront for him! Not even a sniff of negotiating, just rejecting!

Damn them knowing his potential!

Try dealing with the Italian Mafia of Inter Milan in the first season

I cannot strike a deal with Santon, they refuse to even negotiate! Rejected from £12m to £40m upfront for him! Not even a sniff of negotiating, just rejecting!

Damn them knowing his potential!

If it really was the mafia, negotiations would not go "we will only accept £40m and nothing less", it would go "give us £40m or we'll break your legs".

Not that unrealistic. Look how much Ibrahimovic went for from Inter to Barcelona.

That is hardly good example, because Eto'o was part of the deal.

It's not about the sum, but about the negotiation. The AI keep increasing the asking price for no reason, at the same time as I keep increasing my bid. They just increase the bar as I jump higher.

My scout had quoted 10.75 million, and one AI club had gotten accepted at 11.5million. But my considerably higher bids were not accepted. Until I dropped all the extra fees and stuff and offered 15 million. Maybe there is an issue with how the AI values structured deals that doesn't include a percentage of future transfers/profits. Or perhaps the AI negotiation code needs to be looked at. It simply does not work as it should.

It's a well-known problem by now, so coming up with (bad) examples like Ibrahimovic doesn't explain anything.

I tryed to buy a player from Man city who was on the transfer list,met the price and offered him a contract,everything he wanted then he decided, no I will go on loan to a mid table Italian club when I am top 4 EPL.

Not really when 5 or more clubs all come in on the same day as you make an offer and the player wasnt even on their shortlist.

They always know how much to offer instantly. If it was down to the scouts, the scouts would have different abilities and the offers would all be slightly different but they are all exactly the same and what the other club would accept.

Again wrong, thats in your mind as you're ignoring the cases where the AI does negotiate. I see it happen all the time where AI teams are forced to pay more or just end up backing down because its too much for them.

It does happen, but it is quite rare. I've got hundreds of people in my shortlist, and I can probably count the times the AI has negotiated extensively over a 20-season period on one hand - at least two.

Typically the AI makes an offer, the receiving AI club accepts within a day, and the player accepts the contract within a few days and off he goes.

It does happen, but it is quite rare. I've got hundreds of people in my shortlist, and I can probably count the times the AI has negotiated extensively over a 20-season period on one hand - at least two.

Typically the AI makes an offer, the receiving AI club accepts within a day, and the player accepts the contract within a few days and off he goes.

no joke, i have seen it happen at least 5 times in my recent summer transfer window. There was one young striker i was looking at that my scouts said i would need to pay 2m for but his club wanted more. Barca and Real Madrid were also chasing him and bid at around 2m as well and were both rejected, Real Madrid anded up pulling out and Barca ended up signing him for about 6m.

That's a daft blanket statement. Negotiations get silly at times, yes, but just break off and start again. I tried to sign Srna in 2012 and opened with 10m straight up. They said no. I came back with 5m up front + 10m over 48 months. They said they wanted 33m! I came back with 1m + 17m over 48 months and they accepted.

When you are bidding on a player who they don't want to sell then of course they'll ask for stupid amounts. It's how they put you off buying them.

Yeah, I'm kinda fine with that - although it is a bit ludicrous to demand 120+ million when the world record is 80 million. Every player has its price after all.

My issue here is that the negotiations aren't very realistic. It's fine to have a price, but don't keep increasing it for no apparent reason. If the AI demands 5 million for a player, keep stating that. Don't gradually increase it to 15 million.

I know SI is aware of this issue, so I hope somebody looks at it for FM11.