SI have rushed this patch

what do you think?

goals are just flying in ive played 3 games and already scored 11 and conceded 8

1st game V spurs 5-3 Win

then slav prague 1-0 win

my 3rd game V newcastle 5-5

Im arsenal btw

what do you think?

goals are just flying in ive played 3 games and already scored 11 and conceded 8

1st game V spurs 5-3 Win

then slav prague 1-0 win

my 3rd game V newcastle 5-5

Im arsenal btw

Rushed the patch? Take any longer and it will be time for FM09.

I agree there are still things wrong with the game but you cant say its been rushed.

Have you considered it could be someting to do with your lineup or tactics?

does seem quite high scoring at the moment, the tactic that I was using on 8.01 and getting a lot of clean sheets with, whilst not scoring heavily, is playing completely differently now, last 2 games have been 4-3 and 3-2

some of u people just cant be pleased you have won 5-3 in the derby

After 6 games, I've had 2 5-4's. Fisher have scored 17 conceeded 14. Mental.

Statistics need a lot of cases to be representative. First day of my season in Scottish Division 3 was pre-patch (ie. 8.01) and across the 5 games in the division 29 goals were scored, including Cowdenbeath 1-9 Queen's Park (I wasn't managing either). Matchday 6, played with the new patch saw a grand total of 6 goals scored across the 5 games played.

That is little more statistically significant than your example, but it shows that you can't just cherry pick a few games and use them as "evidence" of something.

Barnzy - i know what your saying but i thought it would of been best if it had a longer testing period imo.

Mallen - ya its only 3 matchs but look at the teams and the goals i could understand it if the teams i were playing were a less high profile club.

TBC - im using the same tactics before the 802 patch and the score lines were nothing like this.

Reidy - lol i know its a derby game but its abit to much imo

but i will play more matchs and see if it was just those games.

i only put this thread up because of heaaring all these people saying about the high scores.

i will put my update up after lets say 10 games

The goals have started flying in for me too since downloading the new patch last night. And I've not changed tactics either. First game after the new patch I was involved in a 3-3 draw with Tranmere (i'm Leeds). All 6 goals scored in first 35 mins of game. My side's first 3 shots hit the back of the net.

Or maybe my team has just come into some form and is nowt to do with the patch?

Lets say 100, then it may actually mean something.

No pleasing some poeple is there.

Also shoudl say that I don't see a flaw in high scoring games against Spurs or Newcastle seeing as both teams have suicidal defences.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:

bit overkill there Ackter </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, not at all. That's the sort of scale you need to start thinking about if you want to judge the game accurately.

I think (after 6 months in-game) that there are some higher scores. It happens quite often to me, that the score is 0-0 untill 50th minute and when I score the 1st goal almost every next chance gets converted. My reserves also had a 7-7 draw (both teams had goalkeepers)

Even if they did rush the patch it's becaus eof people like the OP shouting off about bugs and nonsense after only 3 games. Every other thread as filled with people calling for a rushed patch rather than a complete fix because it would take too long to wait for.

In my Real Madrid game (yeah, i know, Real is quite good..) Ezequiel Garay has scored 12 goals in the 7 games i've played since i patched the game. 2 from penalties, 1 from free kick and 9 from corners.

Apart from Garay's massive haul i think that there has not been too many goals. Sorry can't remember nor check the results i've had.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

Even if they did rush the patch it's becaus eof people like the OP shouting off about bugs and nonsense after only 3 games. Every other thread as filled with people calling for a rushed patch rather than a complete fix because it would take too long to wait for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

for your info i wasnt asking for a patch over and over im saying that they was alot of goals in the 3 games i played which i tought wasnt right.

i would of waited til march for this patch.

so before you start saying people are shouting off after only 3 games u should know what the facts are

Well yes you have moaned after 3 games?

Try and play a season then report it for gods sakes.

Heh

With the patch and my mage in my last saeason

Man City 8:4 Man UTd

Everton 5:6 Man City

Man City 7:1 Liverpool

Man City 3:3 Man UTd

Man Utd 3:3 Man City

Man City 4:3 Arsenal

)) the 8:4 was a bizzare one ...

this game is flawed beyond repair

Rb - well no i havnet moaned at all im just saying that SI rushed the patch imo. im saying that the scorelines were abit unrealistic

Jreacher - thanks thats my point exactly them scorlines are really unrealistic

are you gonna start saying hes a moaner now Rb?

Well I, for one, have played one match with the patch, which was a 0-0 draw!

SI have clearly rushed the patch! Goals just aren't coming any more!

Working fine my end.

Started a new game with Arsenal also, loaded a tactic called maxed out arsenal got it off the tactics center, just applyed some nice wingers tip i just found out about. Bought in a few players

Marcelo

Maxi Rodriguez

Diego

Mentioned i could do a title challenge, hay the extra funds are great

Currently 8 wins 3 draws 1 loss in the league

Scoring 2.8 conceeding 0.7

Qualifyed for kockout stages of europe and in qtr finals of league cup.

Only confusing part for me i noticed with new patch is, i have pat rice do the team talks, and i tweek them when i feel needed, but he comes out with (team) none quiet a lot, Should i be worried about this ? or is it a good thing to say nothing now

Dontcha just love it?? For weeks, there have been interminable posts - when is the patch coming out? Why is SI deliberately delaying releasing the patch? Here are 79 reasons why the patch should have been out in January!

Now, SI rushed the patch.

I believe it was Murphy's Eighth Law - If you try to please everybody, somebody won't like it.

beevster yeah myass man seems to be doing that alot to saying none.

lol my first match, opposition missed 3 penalties (not a shootout).

Played nearly a season and the goals are coming left right and centre from different teams, not just on me. Man Utd beat Arsenal 6-1, Then on the return it was 6-4. Chelsea and Liverpool drew 6-6.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nathozz:

Played nearly a season and the goals are coming left right and centre from different teams, not just on me. Man Utd beat Arsenal 6-1, Then on the return it was 6-4. Chelsea and Liverpool drew 6-6. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

heres a perfect example nearly a season gone and goals are flying in. thanks

Football Manager 2008

What happened I wonder, I love the game and shall continue to buy it until i'm to old for it, at the moment though I turned 18 as of yesterday (Romantic Day for me ), Football Manager did come second i'm not that addicted to it and I don't let it control my life, it just gets played on the laptop which is indeed very often but like I said, It doesn't run my life.

So where did Football Manager go wrong this time? Well they tried to be 'Cute' in my view, I admire them for there thoughts and it's awesome they would want to do something like that and it is a nice thing to do I'm not slagging them off for that, but they didn't test it to the full potential that it should of been tested and they have made rookie mistakes which is deffo NOT like SI, How ever I believe if SI are sensible and I believe them to be, then they will release a 3rd patch shortly and this time it will not be rushed and will only be released on a day that will not be 'special' it will just be a day when it's done, Players don't care if it's brought out on a boring monday a valentine thursday or a christmas sunday as long as it's done and they know a game they paid good money for has been dealt with properly and they know they have a good team who want to make their game better.

So SI, Please don't try and make it 'cute' in future releases, if you finish it on next years version at feb 14th then fine but if your going to release it please DON'T of rushed it and DON'T of showed a lack of interest for the players, because like I said personality wise it's a nice gesture what you have done but GAMING wise you have let many of your fans down and indeed possibly drove some away, focus on the more important factors next time.

Any way sorry to ramble, you may of driven the odd 1 or 2 away but I intend to be sticking around for quite a while.

Matti.

Its not unreaslistic to get high scoring games, just look whats happend this season already in the real league.

Man utd 6-0 Newcastle

Wigan 5-3 Blackburn

Man city 4-2 Bolton

Tottenham 5-1 Fulham

Tottenham 6-4 Reading

Everton 7-1 Sunderlamd

Derby 0-5 West ham

IS anybody surprised if they have rushed it?

There is 2/3 threads a day asking when the patch is out for god sake.

You all moan when you dont have it, and then kick up a fuss about it when you do have it

Calm the hell down with your complaining about SI, if they have done such a bad job, go make your own ****ing game and see if thats perfect, its not all easy you know

End.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liverpool Rule---Jehrome:

IS anybody surprised if they have rushed it?

There is 2/3 threads a day asking when the patch is out for god sake.

You all moan when you dont have it, and then kick up a fuss about it when you do have it

Calm the hell down with your complaining about SI, if they have done such a bad job, go make your own ****ing game and see if thats perfect, its not all easy you know

End. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think SI employ a much more professional way of dealing with criticism

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liverpool Rule---Jehrome:

IS anybody surprised if they have rushed it?

There is 2/3 threads a day asking when the patch is out for god sake.

You all moan when you dont have it, and then kick up a fuss about it when you do have it

Calm the hell down with your complaining about SI, if they have done such a bad job, go make your own ****ing game and see if thats perfect, its not all easy you know

End. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beevster:

Its not unreaslistic to get high scoring games, just look whats happend this season already in the real league.

Man utd 6-0 Newcastle

Wigan 5-3 Blackburn

Man city 4-2 Bolton

Tottenham 5-1 Fulham

Tottenham 6-4 Reading

Everton 7-1 Sunderlamd

Derby 0-5 West ham </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

why do people think they possess superior intelligence and righteousness above all when they compare a handful of games spread out over 20+ rounds to the high scoring that is happening in every round in fm08?

only the three games for me all pre season

8-0

1-1

5-0

so i'm happy with it

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liverpool Rule---Jehrome:

IS anybody surprised if they have rushed it?

There is 2/3 threads a day asking when the patch is out for god sake.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE> that's why those people should all be banned!

But I doubt those posters will have affected the patch's release date or readiness tbf.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nostromo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beevster:

Its not unreaslistic to get high scoring games, just look whats happend this season already in the real league.

Man utd 6-0 Newcastle

Wigan 5-3 Blackburn

Man city 4-2 Bolton

Tottenham 5-1 Fulham

Tottenham 6-4 Reading

Everton 7-1 Sunderlamd

Derby 0-5 West ham </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

why do people think they possess superior intelligence and righteousness above all when they compare a handful of games spread out over 20+ rounds to the high scoring that is happening in every round in fm08? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm...maybe because that is exactly the type of statistics people are dredging up about FM08. No-one has yet had the wit or common sense to post proper stats for a whole season.

Scanning up the thread, someone pulled out 3 examples of high scoring games and was told he had given a "perfect example", others have shown similar "analysis" or posted a screenshot of 1 matchday.

You can always make statistics back up your point of view if you just select those which do back up your view and ignore all the rest. There are something like 380 games played in a Premier League season. If people want to be taken seriously then give some proper statistics on what happened in the other 377 instead of just 3 high scoring games that you picked out!

Time to put science know how to work!

Glamdring and Ackter are spot on about not being able to use a handful of picked games as evidence and the amount you'd need for statistical significance.

If anyone has the time and patience this is what should be done for a true experiment on the matter.

Run two games. Both just running the premier leage with full detail, no managers*. One of the games is 8.0.1 and one is 8.0.2

At the end of the season the goals scored can be compared to get some real evidence. That said, you also have to choose how you're going to go about the goal counting. Do you count the total goals and compare it like that or just count the number of matches that have higher than average scores.

If you go for the later you then have to define what is a higher than average score.

Once you've gone through all that, zipped the results through a stats package like spss, then you can start claiming what you've found is evidence. And even then it is limited only to 1 season in the premiership without human intervention.

*All game settings would have to be the same, and would have to be run on the same computer too.

You dont need to be a rocket scientist to see that a HUGE leap has been made in the results pre 8.0.2 and now post...I have just played about dozen of games and an average goal ration has been increased dramaticlly.

You can notice that your strikers score more one on ones than before which is great but now my main SC has scored about 15-20 goals in those dozen games which will lead to 100+ goals per season for great strikers what once more is NOT very realistic

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beevster:

Its not unreaslistic to get high scoring games, just look whats happend this season already in the real league.

Man utd 6-0 Newcastle

Wigan 5-3 Blackburn

Man city 4-2 Bolton

Tottenham 5-1 Fulham

Tottenham 6-4 Reading

Everton 7-1 Sunderlamd

Derby 0-5 West ham </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You missed Portsmouth 7-4 Reading off that list.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GillsMan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beevster:

Its not unreaslistic to get high scoring games, just look whats happend this season already in the real league.

Man utd 6-0 Newcastle

Wigan 5-3 Blackburn

Man city 4-2 Bolton

Tottenham 5-1 Fulham

Tottenham 6-4 Reading

Everton 7-1 Sunderlamd

Derby 0-5 West ham </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You missed Portsmouth 7-4 Reading off that list. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As well as Liverpool 6-0 Derby, Arsenal 5-0 Derby (sorry Derby fans), as well as the countless games in which United scored 4 goals.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dreaded Walrus:

Well I, for one, have played one match with the patch, which was a 0-0 draw!

SI have clearly rushed the patch! Goals just aren't coming any more! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yea how dreaful. i played one game so far and it finish 0-0 draw as well. it must be a bug because it happen to both of us.

Sort it out SI

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by www2:

You dont need to be a rocket scientist to see that a HUGE leap has been made in the results pre 8.0.2 and now post...I have just played about dozen of games and an average goal ration has been increased dramaticlly.

You can notice that your strikers score more one on ones than before which is great but now my main SC has scored about 15-20 goals in those dozen games which will lead to 100+ goals per season for great strikers what once more is NOT very realistic </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's true. Its not rocket science, it's brain surgery.

Anyways,

Stats are important because they can help to remove individual bias. Intended or not. For example it's simple psychology that we pay more attention to matters that affect us than those which don't. In FM terms you are more likely to notice high results with your team, but not the results of other teams. You get an unrepresentative view.

Stats are the way forward if anyone really wants to prove their case here. If there are too many goals then the experiment would find that out. If there weren't significantly more goals then it would find that also.

What I've noticed with my strikers isn't more goals but the fact the goals they score are more realistic. They seem more likely to round the keeper or bend a shot than blast it straight at them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nostromo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beevster:

Its not unreaslistic to get high scoring games, just look whats happend this season already in the real league.

Man utd 6-0 Newcastle

Wigan 5-3 Blackburn

Man city 4-2 Bolton

Tottenham 5-1 Fulham

Tottenham 6-4 Reading

Everton 7-1 Sunderlamd

Derby 0-5 West ham </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

why do people think they possess superior intelligence and righteousness above all when they compare a handful of games spread out over 20+ rounds to the high scoring that is happening in every round in fm08? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

erm.... because that's exactly what the moaners does as well.

There are two separate issues here though too. One is how many goals are being scored in general by AI teams with no human interference, the other is goals scored in games that do involve human input. The latter is far more difficult to analyse because it depends on human tactics - some people play wild tactics scoring and conceding lots anyway, some people are bad managers and just plain concede a lot, others spend hours trying to find super-tactics to "beat the match engine" rather than actually use a football tactic. Results from the last group should be totally discounted because there will almost always be ways to abuse flaws in the match engine to score boat loads of goals.

My team have scored a fair number of goals post-patch too, but then I am in a new season and my team has gelled better than last season and we had started to score a decent number at the end of last season anyway so it's not conclusive. And like I said at the top, being unstatistical - 29 goals from 1 matchday (5 games) pre-patch, 6 goals from 1 matchday (5 games)...not evidence, just anecdotal like everything else.

So before the patch there were too few goals, now there are too many goals. Can someone explain what the ideal amount of goals is so that SI can incorporate it in future games.

As for "facts" waynef, you were moaning about them rushing the patch, there is an obvious comparison between this moan and people who moaned before hand, even if you didn't.

There ya go facts sorted and my point remains.

PS. If you have seen a lot of people complaing about the amount of goals, as you stated earlier, why feel the need to open a new thread. Yawn.

ya there is some high scoring games irl but its not every week is it. like in this new patch.

dont get me wrong i love the game im just voicing my opinion theres no harm in doing that and i aint giving SI any criticism

i wouldn't say they rushed it. they just have a few mistakes. the easy ones to fix are obv defoe transfer, fernebache/galatasary and elano/alves (and other players) superman stats.

i think 802 is rly good because more emphasis is now on player stats and not many teams are unbeatable. however, the flipside to this is that i believe si have to make sure 99% of players stats follow the trend they've set. hopefully they'll fix. it shouldn't take long at all since there aren't many players to edit down.

finally, there is the confidence system. its flawed, yes. i think a temporary fix like scaling down every clubs expectations (if thats possible) would be successful. obv. we can't expect them to rework the system now with FM2009 due out in some months, so a temporary fix to stop successful managers getting fired would definitley suffice.