What are your do's and dont's of making a tactic

[King Doobs]

I am a tactical newbie. Ive played for years watch football religiously and yet have absolutely zero understanding of how to make a tactic. I am going to grind hard for FM 19 to become even semi competent at making a steady tactic next year. Does anyone have any must haves in every tactic or something to 100% avoid, be it with roles, partnerships, player instructions, team instructions... Anything it really will help

[westy8chimp]

Have a plan before you start. Something you want to achieve... Write a bullet point or two down on paper. That makes it a lot easier to make decisions about formation, roles, duty, mentality all work together cohesively. 

I refer to it as 'putting a stake in the ground' (something i use on work projects too... Something has to be fixed as a start point otherwise how do you make decisions, how do you judge the success, how do you know when things are going wrong... Etc) 

That stake, in tactic terms, can be a style;possesion vs direct, counter vs domination... Or it could be a particular role you want to use or maybe a star player you want to build around.

Once that decision is made you'll gradually find everything else fits into place fairly easily. 

[SD]

For starters, start simple.

Think of what kind of football you want to play. Do you want to control possession and slowly make your way towards goal or do you want to get the ball forward quickly and open defences with through balls into space? Do you want to be restrained and draw out the opposition or do you want to pressure them relentlessly and pin them in their third?

Next, begin with a common formation, like 4-4-2 or some variant of wide 4-3-3. Stick to flexible shape. Use straight-forward roles and keep team instructions to a minimum.

Always remember that tactical instructions, be it team or players, are not hard rules but tendencies. Most tactical options are for things your players are doing anyway, ticking one only makes your players do it more. You do not need pass into space for players to attempt through balls once in a while

It's okay to build your tactic around 2-3 key players or the strengths of the team as a whole, but don't fall into the trap of trying to use every player in their best roles and duties.

Watch a couple of games in full.

If you are going to make changes, add and take away one thing at a time and see what it does on the pitch.

Watch a few more games in full.

If your idea turned out to be a dead end don't get disheartened and get back to the drawing board.

[Atarin]

Don't over complicate it. Start simple and fix as you watch.

[johnnyyakuza78]

I really like the idea of drawing a quick diagram of how you want your tactic to work and then laying it out in FM afterwards, I think that helps to fix your mind on what to do.

Here’s what I say you shouldn’t do though:

Don’t use loads of team and personal instructions till you know the game and your tactic well. The fewer the better. You can play the game at a high level just by setting up a formation, some rough roles and adjusting the mentality when you want to make changes. Think of TIs as tiny tweaks rather than the foundation of your tactic.

Dont get caught up on Min/maximising to perfect a tactic, or over analyse it. You can do really well with a mostly decent tactic and good players. 

Dont use highly structured or very fluid team shape unless you really know what you are doing. Flexible is the safest bet to start with.

Dont get hung up on the names of roles, they are just a collection of instructions an can behave quite differently with different players.

There are so many things we could say here I think, could be here all night 

[plcarlos]

Agreed with above - I've played for a long time, but i enojoy the game much more when I focus on how I want the team to play. I build around that. Players being in the right role to achieve that comes secondary, Also - i'd not pay as much attention to the circles, if the player can play the role, it can be fine.

Also give the plan time - even the best players can't switch in 1 game.. Far too many people switch too much, too often

 

[Dfs]

I always check team report -> comparison page to see what are the strengths of my team. Then if I see that I have good dribblers I give them run at defence, fast players with good off the ball - pass into space, slow defenders - lower defensive line, fast defenders - high defensive line, high work rate players overall - I try to make a tactic of high intensity etc.

[sporadicsmiles]

To add to a few things here, use friendlies to watch the behaviour of players. I like to pick a player and watch what he does for 5-10 minutes. Where does he go in attack? Where does he get the ball? Where does he pass the ball? What does he do in defence? Etc. Etc. Then I can ask myself if this is what I want him to be doing. If the answer is no, then I will try to make a change, and watch again to see if it has changed (it probably takes less time). You can do this until you are happy with what he does (remembering he will never do exactly what you want all the time, you are looking for trends). I find this particularly useful when I have an idea for a player, but unsure what role/duty is best. In a friendly the result is unimportant, but the behaviour of the players should mirror what you expect to see in competitive fixtures. 

[Robson 07]

When you make changes do them gradually.  Its harder to understand what improved or went wrong if you make wholesale changes.  You will also reap the benefits of familiarity more quickly if you build in that manner.  Good luck. 

[ShirazS]

On 03/10/2018 at 22:17, westy8chimp said:

Have a plan before you start. Something you want to achieve... Write a bullet point or two down on paper. That makes it a lot easier to make decisions about formation, roles, duty, mentality all work together cohesively. 

I refer to it as 'putting a stake in the ground' (something i use on work projects too... Something has to be fixed as a start point otherwise how do you make decisions, how do you judge the success, how do you know when things are going wrong... Etc) 

That stake, in tactic terms, can be a style;possesion vs direct, counter vs domination... Or it could be a particular role you want to use or maybe a star player you want to build around.

Once that decision is made you'll gradually find everything else fits into place fairly easily. 

I really like this suggestion a lot. I have an idea of what I want e.g. I want to build a team around Gotze as an AMC and I want him to be pinging through balls that create scoring chances for the wide/forward players. 
But this is where I kind of get stuck. I know that a short passing possession game would suit the above plan but other than that, I'm not sure where next to go or what is the next question to ask myself.
Do you have any further pointers/suggestions?

[westy8chimp]

2 hours ago, ShirazS said:

I really like this suggestion a lot. I have an idea of what I want e.g. I want to build a team around Gotze as an AMC and I want him to be pinging through balls that create scoring chances for the wide/forward players. 
But this is where I kind of get stuck. I know that a short passing possession game would suit the above plan but other than that, I'm not sure where next to go or what is the next question to ask myself.
Do you have any further pointers/suggestions?

Great he is your stake in the ground and you also have a plan of attack that you actively want him to be chief creator. Next to decide his role. You could at high level immediately decide you want him as playmaker, being a ball magnet, to maximise his involvement...but this comes with other implications... He is likely to be man marked more and closed down more as a playmaker than a general amc. He will play a more static role as playmaker than amc... And importantly it will be vastly differenf in how the rest of the team behave. 

So my first (next) step would be to assess the rest of the squad. Primarily.. Who are the guys closest to him in the wide roles and striker role... What kind of service can he provide them (through balls if they have off the ball, anticipation and speed.... To feet if they have strength, touch and balance). What role/duty combination will best achieve those partnerships? Then... Whats the dna of the whole squad... Can you play a fluid system? Do the cm/dm players have technical skills so you can play fluid possession? Or are they more defensive and you might consider a structured approach? How will you get the ball to gotze and make sure he has options for his through balls? 

Jot down a few formations that work with an amc... Then review the squad... Do you have players ideal for one of those formations? Do you have budget to fill the gaps? 

Personally, knowing a little about Dortmund, id be thinking structured 4231 (2dm) using wiegl as the heartbeat of the defensive unit as dlp-s as a bridge to the attack... Paired with a hard working dm (maybe sign thomas delaney, one of my go to players, for about 19m) then gotze ap-s as the heartbeat of the attacking unit. Reus as rmd-a and pulisic if-s those are through ball options as well as cutting inside to make overloads with the ap... Cf-s would then be my striker option as that player on support will link well, but cf also works channels and looks to score. If you get him tutored early, isak is ideal for that role. 

Kagawa and sancho good subs for the ap and wide roles. Sahin a good sub for dlp. 

[AFCBeer]

Simply being aware of the strengths and weaknesses of a particular tactic. Once you are able to recognise when it’s not working, it’s important to know what simple adjustments to make without deviating too much from the overall philosophy. 

I currently play a possession with system which really stretches play wide. It’s not just my wide players, I also ask central players to get into the half spaces. My weakness is with just one central pivot, if we misplace a pass from a wide area to the middle, then we are wide open. If the AI is setup, or has the quality to exploit this, I very quickly know what I need to change. 

[ShirazS]

18 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

Great he is your stake in the ground and you also have a plan of attack that you actively want him to be chief creator. Next to decide his role. You could at high level immediately decide you want him as playmaker, being a ball magnet, to maximise his involvement...but this comes with other implications... He is likely to be man marked more and closed down more as a playmaker than a general amc. He will play a more static role as playmaker than amc... And importantly it will be vastly differenf in how the rest of the team behave. 

So my first (next) step would be to assess the rest of the squad. Primarily.. Who are the guys closest to him in the wide roles and striker role... What kind of service can he provide them (through balls if they have off the ball, anticipation and speed.... To feet if they have strength, touch and balance). What role/duty combination will best achieve those partnerships? Then... Whats the dna of the whole squad... Can you play a fluid system? Do the cm/dm players have technical skills so you can play fluid possession? Or are they more defensive and you might consider a structured approach? How will you get the ball to gotze and make sure he has options for his through balls? 

Jot down a few formations that work with an amc... Then review the squad... Do you have players ideal for one of those formations? Do you have budget to fill the gaps? 

Personally, knowing a little about Dortmund, id be thinking structured 4231 (2dm) using wiegl as the heartbeat of the defensive unit as dlp-s as a bridge to the attack... Paired with a hard working dm (maybe sign thomas delaney, one of my go to players, for about 19m) then gotze ap-s as the heartbeat of the attacking unit. Reus as rmd-a and pulisic if-s those are through ball options as well as cutting inside to make overloads with the ap... Cf-s would then be my striker option as that player on support will link well, but cf also works channels and looks to score. If you get him tutored early, isak is ideal for that role. 

Kagawa and sancho good subs for the ap and wide roles. Sahin a good sub for dlp. 

Thanks for the help, really appreciate it!



I mostly went with what you suggested but changed Gotze to an AP-A as I also want him to dribble more. When I picture the game being played out in my mind's eye, he's dribbling from deeper or making through balls when higher up and being a goal threat. 

Delaney looks awesome, thanks for the tip! I really do need some strength and height in my midfield.

[Zemahh]

2 hours ago, ShirazS said:

Thanks for the help, really appreciate it!

• Keep an eye on your right flank, looks quite vulnerable. If you find it problematic, you could change your right DM to a BWM, so your WB doesn't get isolated - as it looks now, he won't be getting much defensive help from anyone.
• It looks like you're trying to make Weigl build from the back, so I'm not sure a BPD is the best option - he will often try launching defense-splitting through balls from deep, bypassing the midfield.
• With Gotze on Attack duty, you might struggle bringing balls from the back through your central areas - you have Weigl on Defend, meaning he will almost never step up, so it all comes down to Dahoud. What I would do, is change Weigl to Support - a DLP(S) is still fairly defensive, he keeps his Hold Position PI and it's in a DM slot, which already makes is quite defensive in itself. Your Team Mentality is also fairly conservative, so you shouldn't be worried about him being too adventurous.
• Your AP and IF(S) are both looking to make risky passes (through balls), however, with your CF on Support, I'm not sure they have enough good options ahead of them. Observe your attacking transitions and see how they play out. If you find it hard to create chances, you could try changing your AP to Support and CF to Attack - that way you have Gotze and Schurrle creating for Reus and Aboubakar.

Just my two cents. If your current tactic works as planned, feel free to ignore.

[ShirazS]

On 06/10/2018 at 12:26, Zemahh said:

• Keep an eye on your right flank, looks quite vulnerable. If you find it problematic, you could change your right DM to a BWM, so your WB doesn't get isolated - as it looks now, he won't be getting much defensive help from anyone.
• It looks like you're trying to make Weigl build from the back, so I'm not sure a BPD is the best option - he will often try launching defense-splitting through balls from deep, bypassing the midfield.
• With Gotze on Attack duty, you might struggle bringing balls from the back through your central areas - you have Weigl on Defend, meaning he will almost never step up, so it all comes down to Dahoud. What I would do, is change Weigl to Support - a DLP(S) is still fairly defensive, he keeps his Hold Position PI and it's in a DM slot, which already makes is quite defensive in itself. Your Team Mentality is also fairly conservative, so you shouldn't be worried about him being too adventurous.
• Your AP and IF(S) are both looking to make risky passes (through balls), however, with your CF on Support, I'm not sure they have enough good options ahead of them. Observe your attacking transitions and see how they play out. If you find it hard to create chances, you could try changing your AP to Support and CF to Attack - that way you have Gotze and Schurrle creating for Reus and Aboubakar.

Just my two cents. If your current tactic works as planned, feel free to ignore.

Thanks for the tips, will see how it plays for a bit and look out for the things you've mentioned

[Experienced Defender]

@ShirazS Zemahh is absolutely right if you ask me. And I would just add that in order to mitigate potential defensive vulnerability, you should consider giving your left CB cover duty and if you change your left DM to DLP on support, then your right DM might become anchorman or at least DM on defend duty. Both these suggestions are mostly because your both fullbacks (LFB on attack & RWB on support) are fairly offensive, so your back line will need better protection against opposition counter-attacks.

[herne79]

Do start off simple, using tactical settings you understand.

Don't use the ones you don't understand.

Do realise that telling your players to do something is very different to them having the ability to be able to do it.

Don't forget to look at a player's coach report as well as their visible attributes.

[KUMB]

16 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Don't forget to look at a player's coach report as well as their visible attributes.

What are the major things to look out for here? 

[herne79]

1 minute ago, KUMB said:

What are the major things to look out for here? 

The coach report (or scout report if you don't currently employ a player) will tell you if any of the player's hidden attributes are worth making note of.  So for example a coach may tell you if a player does/doesn't like big matches, or copes well/poorly with pressure, or is/isn't consistent.

Favourable reports of certain attributes will be good for the player.  Unfavourable reports may show you he'll be a pain to manage.  If nothing is mentioned for certain areas, then it's probably just a neutral amount - neither good nor bad.

So, if you see a player and his visible attributes make him look like the next Messi but his coach/scout report tells you he hates big matches, is very inconsistent, he's injury prone, doesn't like pressure and is liable to kick people and get himself sent off, the frequency with which he'll actually be able to apply all of those fantastic visible attributes might be pretty low.

[ShirazS]

In terms of do's and dont's, what are the things that you guys do when analysing whether there is an issue with your new tactic or confirming if things are working well? For example: Use 2d camera, Look at possession % etc.

PS: If this is taking things too much off topic, I can start a separate thread.

[AFCBeer]

1 hour ago, ShirazS said:

In terms of do's and dont's, what are the things that you guys do when analysing whether there is an issue with your new tactic or confirming if things are working well? For example: Use 2d camera, Look at possession % etc.

PS: If this is taking things too much off topic, I can start a separate thread.

I look to see if I have a player isolated and getting few touches. Also is there a position which is constantly getting poor ratings? Does he have enough support and / or passing options?

With a new tactic it’s very easy to convince yourself something is working when it’s not. But it’s important not to overreact too and immediately make changes the first time you see a mistake 

[King Doobs]

Guys. This is fantastic, more suggestions and good ideas than I could have hoped for. Please keep it going, not tried any of them yet as I cant get the motivation to play 18 due to the beta being round the corner. Awesome work