Individual Player Mentality

[Pompey_Dan]

Unaccustomed as I am to starting to threads, I thought I’d post a little bit about individual player mentality; specifically about how I think the game assigns this value.  I’m not sure I’m saying anything here that hasn’t been covered already - and probably better! - but if understanding how I look at player mentality when setting up tactics helps even one person then that’s pretty cool.  I am in no way an expert so please feel free to add comment/correct me where I am wrong.

Firstly, where does one find a players individual mentality?  Well, it's a crime but SI have hidden player mentality away on the player instructions pop-up; if I had my way it would be an option available in custom views.

 

I believe that paying attention to individual player mentality greatly improves your understanding of a system and the chance it will work as you intended.  Are you wondering why your full-back over commits?  Why your winger never tracks back?  Okay, so individual player mentality isn't the whole story but it is a fairly significant chapter.

As far as I can tell there are four key factors which together determine a player's individual mentality: player position, player duty, team mentality and team shape.

The notable absence from that list is the player’s role which, so far as I can tell, influences how a player acts but does not affect his individual mentality.

FM2018 gathers player mentalities into six groups.   Players in each group share mentalities based on their individual duties, team mentality and shape.  Here's a visual representation of those six groups…

Because FM groups individual player mentality in this way an AMR with an attack duty will be assigned the same mentality as an AMC on an attack duty (in the same team); similarly a DR on a support duty will have the same individual mentality as a DMC with a support duty.

Team shape then determines how significant the difference is in mentality between a ‘support’ player in one group and a ‘support’ player in a different group.  If a team is assigned a highly structured team shape then these differences will be significant, on a very fluid team shape the differences are almost non-existent.

The diagram below helps illustrates how team shape influences the variance between ‘support’ players in four of the six groupings…

...see how the variance between groups is greater in the highly structured set-up.

 

A player's position determines which group they will draw their individual mentality from and, last but no least, duty assigns the player a mentality from one of typically three sub-groups (e.g. defend, support or attack).

 

Knowing how the game assigns individual player mentalities helps me find balance when I am creating a tactic.  I will generally have an idea how I want the team to play and which team mentality I am likely to use, next comes team shape.  If I have chosen one of the more 'extreme’ team mentalities (contain, defensive, attacking or overload) then I will more than likely avoid fluid and very fluid shapes.  For me, these team shapes tend to exaggerate team mentality at either end of the pitch - an attacking mentality combined with a very fluid shape has the defenders and defensive midfielders be too aggressive for my liking, leaving the team exposed to quick counter-attacks; whereas a defensive mentality coupled with a very fluid shape leads to the attacking midfielders and forwards becoming overly cautious and a bit toothless.

My choice of team mentality also influences which duties I select.  By selecting a defensive team mentality I am setting the base value for individual player mentality quite low.  I might want to consider balancing that by assigning certain key players an attack duty - not too many, but where I want penetration - I will also need to limit the number of players on a defence duty otherwise the team will be too risk averse.  Conversely, an attacking team mentality sets the base value for player mentality quite high so I might want to reduce the number of players with attack duties and increase those on ‘support’ - especially if I want a more considered build up to my attacks.

 

In my current save I am aiming for an attacking, possession-based style; I want my team to see plenty of the ball but I also want us to create good, high percentage chances.  This was inspired by @herne79's thread entitled "Attacking and Possession"

This is my 4-4-1-1 tactic...

 

I have employed an attacking team mentality but only have two players assigned to an attack duty… why?  My choice of team mentality sets the base value for individual player mentality high, this means I get enough attacking impetus from players on a support (or even a defend) duty.  To illustrate this point take a look at my left back, he is an IWB (defend) yet his individual player mentality is still higher than an IWB (support) playing in a team with a counter mentality.  With this in mind, he provides all the support and drive I need from him without compromising the team's defensive stability.

 IWB (defend) with an attacking team mentality

IWB (support) with a counter team mentality

I have been mostly using a structured team shape (flexible on occasion) but, as mentioned above, I will be avoiding those more fluid shapes as I fear they will draw the individual mentalities closer together and over commit my defence.

Well, it's late and I am just about out of steam, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on this subject... do you consider the impact of individual player mentalities when setting up tactics?  If so how do you go about this?  Or do you completely ignore them, think they are irrelevant?

 

[alanschu14]

3 minutes ago, Pompey_Dan said:

I have been mostly using a structured team shape (flexible on occasion) but, as mentioned above, I will be avoiding those more fluid shapes as I fear they will draw the individual mentalities closer together and over commit my defence.

It's a tool in the tool box too though. I do agree though, I tend to increase my fluidity when I have defensive mentalities set in an effort to coordinate my defensive efforts.

That said, I overwhelmingly play on Flexible since I get results

[FMunderachiever]

i tend to think if im countering, i want fluidity. In that situation id tell players to roam from their positions too.

If intending to be dominant, i think its better to play with structure.

 

 

[NabsKebabs]

2 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

i tend to think if im countering, i want fluidity. In that situation id tell players to roam from their positions too.

If intending to be dominant, i think its better to play with structure.

 

 

Actually, structured shapes are more suited for counter attacks/fast transitions. As attackers are more likely to bomb forward earlier and do their own thing. And you almost certainly wouldn't roam from positions. Roam from positions is more suited to breaking down a defensive team.

If you want to camp, fluid is generally more suitable as it allows for more players to be involved in transitions. That said, you can still camp playing on structured if you don't wan't to over commit numbers into attack. That is infact an ideal situation to play "roam from positions" - if you are trying to camp on structured.

[Rashidi]

3 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

That said, you can still camp playing on structured if you don't wan't to over commit numbers into attack.

You just need to make sure the attacking duties are good enough to hold the ball up, find roles that do that, and make sure again that he has the right attributes.

Only a few things I will add to the OP's post. There are some roles that are hard coded to behave in a certain way. Eg. Segundo Volante, Carrilero, the values of these players get modded under the hood by locked in behaviour to ensure they play the way the devs wanted.  The higher a position the player takes on the pitch the more his mentality gets affected by a change in Mentality/Duty if he is playing on a lower shape, if shape is increased then he drops more inline with the rest of the team. The analogy of everyone singing Kumbaya still holds. 

The best way to play the game is to think of mentality/shape roles and duties as one big concept. When you want to choose what a player does think of your overall strategy, then think about how you want to achieve that. Are there players you want specifically attacking space? Do you want other players to make space for him. Do you have players who can do that kind of a job? Can they hold the ball up under pressure? These are questions you need to ask yourself.

Once you have a clear vision on what you want, ask yourself how much risk are you willing to take. Can your boys defend? How well can they defend. Do they defend crosses well? This determines whether you should go in with a narrow or wide defence. And it also helps you decide if you want a static or non static defence (DM or non DM). Ultimately, how the roles and duties interact will define how your team moves the ball up the pitch.

In my book, the concept of mentality, shape and roles and duties takes up a good 20-30 pages, and yeah its a similar approach to what's been described by the OP. However, I have found that over the years, the best way to udnerstand it is to remember that there are aggressive and non aggressive roles. A WB and a FB are fundamentally different, in fact while under certain circumstances they could share the same mentality, one role is hard coded to be more aggressive than another. So you need to understand the roles too.

[Jyuan83]

Great post @Pompey_Dan This happens to be how i play my games as i set the team mentality for how i want the team to behave then choose the roles and formation to moderate the mentality. The duties are usually support and defend with just one or two attack duties.

[Robson 07]

Only just found this thread.  An outstanding OP from the author, @Pompey_Dan.  Just felt I should say as much.  More of these please.

[hyrule_king]

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Great explanation 

[yau]

players mentalities

Idk who posted this, but I found it on this forum.

[peter_b]

Great post.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how player mentality affects player traits?

For example, if I have a player with the 'Tries killer balls often' trait, will a lower mentality reduce the number of 'killer balls' this player will attempt? And a higher mentality increase it?

Or do those traits work independently of mentality?

[Cleon]

2 minutes ago, peter_b said:

Great post.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how player mentality affects player traits?

For example, if I have a player with the 'Tries killer balls often' trait, will a lower mentality reduce the number of 'killer balls' this player will attempt? And a higher mentality increase it?

Or do those traits work independently of mentality?

They'll do it regardless and how often is linked to the players attributes and not any team setting.

[Rashidi]

Just now, Cleon said:

They'll do it regardless and how often is linked to the players attributes and not any team setting.

 Agreed, cos it would look very strange if a team is playing on overload and someone with killer balls is pinging them ALL the time.

[peter_b]

9 minutes ago, Cleon said:

They'll do it regardless and how often is linked to the players attributes and not any team setting.

At the risk of sounding stupid: which attributes would that be? Or are they hidden ones?

[Cleon]

22 minutes ago, peter_b said:

At the risk of sounding stupid: which attributes would that be? Or are they hidden ones?

Well in short lots of them. But decisions will be the biggest factor.

[NabsKebabs]

2 hours ago, peter_b said:

At the risk of sounding stupid: which attributes would that be? Or are they hidden ones?

I would think visions, decisions and teamwork. Flair may play a part. Passing and technique to actually pull it off would be required. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by NabsKebabs

[zgiorgos10]

With team shape not existing anymore i have a question. We have the description on our tactics screen on the bottom left. Fluid, structured etc. Also when this description change the creative freedom bar changes too. So is just visual or still team shape has impact on our tactics?

Edited November 22, 2019 by zgiorgos10

[frukox]

As far as I know it is only visual and the more support duties you have in your team the more fluid your team fluidity becomes. Just get the tactic right as well as having the right players for the roles/duties in your team.

Edited November 22, 2019 by frukox