I let a player develop his weaker foot in training and...

[Fergy234]

...

after the training was over his foot had not developed at all but in the player traits it said "attempts to develop weaker foot!"

 

 

[Soninho]

It means that it's still in the process.. I don't know why it's like this but after a while it will go away and you'll see a change when checking weaker foot and at should be improved..!

[Fergy234]

28 minutes ago, Soninho said:

It means that it's still in the process.. I don't know why it's like this but after a while it will go away and you'll see a change when checking weaker foot and at should be improved..!

You are right, now his preferred foot is right not right only but it is still in his traits though but it will probably go away like you said

[Fergy234]

1 hour ago, Soninho said:

It means that it's still in the process.. I don't know why it's like this but after a while it will go away and you'll see a change when checking weaker foot and at should be improved..!

but tell me one thing, can I let him develop it further until his preferred foot becomes "either" ?

[lemeuresnew]

2 hours ago, Fergy234 said:

but tell me one thing, can I let him develop it further until his preferred foot becomes "either" ?

may not be possible, depending on a players age, ca - pa ratio etc.

footedness can take up a lot of points, so similar to developing a main attribute like tackling for a defender, it may not be possible to get him full in the same way

hope that helps

[enigmatic]

On 5/15/2017 at 22:21, Fergy234 said:

but tell me one thing, can I let him develop it further until his preferred foot becomes "either" ?

No, you get a small improvement and then it stops developing. Which makes sense really, because if it was that easy to turn y one footed players into magnificently two-footed players, every club would train their midfield and attack to do it

 

[Fergy234]

2 hours ago, enigmatic said:

No, you get a small improvement and then it stops developing. Which makes sense really, because if it was that easy to turn y one footed players into magnificently two-footed players, every club would train their midfield and attack to do it

 

true

[Cougar2010]

2 hours ago, enigmatic said:

No, you get a small improvement and then it stops developing. Which makes sense really, because if it was that easy to turn y one footed players into magnificently two-footed players, every club would train their midfield and attack to do it

 

I doubt there is anything in the coding that stops a player getting to "either" footed.

If you keep training eventually a player will reach it given enough time but it might wreck his other attributes.

[enigmatic]

I was told there was by testers.

(Otherwise it'd be a no-brainer for any high potential young player since you wouldn't have to worry about wrecked attributes. Plus it wouldn't be realistic, because whilst practice can take the rough edges off players' weaker feet, it can't reprogramme their brains to make them ambidextrous)

[Cougar2010]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

I was told there was by testers.

(Otherwise it'd be a no-brainer for any high potential young player since you wouldn't have to worry about wrecked attributes. Plus it wouldn't be realistic, because whilst practice can take the rough edges off players' weaker feet, it can't reprogramme their brains to make them ambidextrous)

Be interesting to get an answer from SI then.

My understanding is that no attribute is hard capped.  Its just a case of manipulating the earned CA points into the right attribute (In this case Weak Foot).  Is it possible to make a weak foot 1 into a weak foot 20 given the training options? I'm not sure but I doubt its because of a hard cap.

[BoxToBox]

I'm sure I've seen guys do it before, I know a few FM's back someone posted a screencap of Eder Alvarez Balanta(back when he was the must buy CB), and they'd made him either footed.

[MagicHat]

Bumping this... 

i trained Pinamonti to develop weaker foot, i checked  his foot attributes on fm scout before hand and it was left foot 9 right foot 20. He finished training and the "attempt to develop weak foot" trait appeared but went after a few weeks, but now he is still on fm scout as left foot 9 right foot 20? He's listed as right footed. he should have gone to about 14 on left foot by now shouldn't he? and be listed as either?

he still has a fair bit of potential too... i'm confused by this

[WorcesterLegend]

afaik you can improve, but not that much, like trying to improve a speed run in videogames, unless something really useful is discovered the improvement will be minimal, like, a 1 to a 3, is like at least the shots normally go on target but with less power.

now, talking about number, is possible to get a either in a only X player, but the amount of time he has to spend will be insane, i mean, why would i train him to shoot with his weaker foot if he can't even get on target with his strong one? you will get a player that can shot with both feet both the shots will be as bad from both feets

[Snorks]

1 hour ago, WorcesterLegend said:

afaik you can improve, but not that much, like trying to improve a speed run in videogames, unless something really useful is discovered the improvement will be minimal, like, a 1 to a 3, is like at least the shots normally go on target but with less power.

now, talking about number, is possible to get a either in a only X player, but the amount of time he has to spend will be insane, i mean, why would i train him to shoot with his weaker foot if he can't even get on target with his strong one? you will get a player that can shot with both feet both the shots will be as bad from both feets

I train some of my players on their weaker foot, but usually as soon as i  get them in the youth intake. Nothing to do with shooting, but more because I think it improves their overall technicals as well, first touch for example.

Plus, I have noticed, in the last few MEs, full backs attempting to pass back to GK using their weaker foot giving away corners easily, and in this ME forwards looking to cross or shoot preferring their strong foot when the weaker foot would have been best option. If they are more confident on their weaker foot, I do think it improves overall ball retention and possession. 

To be fair, I honestly don't know how much of a difference it actually makes, but it is kind of part of my club DNA.

 

[herne79]

There's a lot of confusion about this Trait, so here's what actually happens.

When learning this Trait, the player's weaker foot doesn't actually start to improve.  The weaker foot only starts to improve once the learning of this Trait has successfully finished.  It will then develop over a period of time after the Trait has been learned.  So it may take 6 months (for example) to learn the Trait and then only at that point will the weaker foot start to develop.

It should also be noted that a player's weaker foot cannot be developed past "Reasonable", so if a player already has a "Reasonable" (or better) weaker foot then learning the Trait is pointless.  The only way a player can have a weaker foot better than "Reasonable" is if they are defined by a researcher in the current database, or if a newgen is "born" with it.  Check a player's profile for this before you start him learning the Trait.

@MagicHat @WorcesterLegend @Snorks

[Snorks]

Interesting info thanks herne.

[zlatanera]

Weird that a lot of my coaches always tell me to try develop Houssem Aouar's weak foot when its on reasonable...but then again, I often ask a coach to develop x trait and they say "he can't do that, why not train x trait instead?" as in he can't do what I'm asking but we should train him to do that exact same thing instead. So now I mostly ignore them.

[Snorks]

Just had  player finish the training, I get the message he "is now far more comfortable using his weaker foot" in my inbox.

His preferred foot is still 'Right' as it was before starting, but player trait 'Attempts to develop weaker foot' has appeared.

Backing up what Herne said. WIll keep an eye and see if the Trait disappears or anything else changes

[MagicHat]

I've just started the develop weak foot again on pinamonti, have i messed it up or what? Will it be more beneficial to train him on it again straight after or should i have just left him  a few months to see if it developed. Also he just got a cross assist with his weak foot in the last game which i dont recall him doing before, maybe its working...

[herne79]

13 minutes ago, MagicHat said:

I've just started the develop weak foot again on pinamonti, have i messed it up or what? Will it be more beneficial to train him on it again straight after or should i have just left him  a few months to see if it developed. Also he just got a cross assist with his weak foot in the last game which i dont recall him doing before, maybe its working...

What have you done differently from my post above?

[MagicHat]

16 minutes ago, herne79 said:

What have you done differently from my post above?

I started develop weaker foot on Andrea Pinamonti at the beginning of last season, he completed the training about may the next year and got the attempts to develop weaker foot trait, the trait went by the time the players went on holiday for end of season/euros.

I'm now in pre season for the next season and i started the develop weaker foot training again on Pinamonti.

[herne79]

49 minutes ago, MagicHat said:

I started develop weaker foot on Andrea Pinamonti at the beginning of last season, he completed the training about may the next year and got the attempts to develop weaker foot trait, the trait went by the time the players went on holiday for end of season/euros.

I'm now in pre season for the next season and i started the develop weaker foot training again on Pinamonti.

And in his player profile, what does it say his weaker foot ability is?  (Go into his profile, click on Development and then Tactics to view this).

How does that relate to the second part of my post above?

[MagicHat]

10 minutes ago, herne79 said:

And in his player profile, what does it say his weaker foot ability is?  (Go into his profile, click on Development and then Tactics to view this).

How does that relate to the second part of my post above?

ahhh i never even knew this part existed. It now says reasonable for his left foot and very strong for his right foot. What threw me off is i was looking on the other screen that says "preferred foot: right" because it said that before the training and after the training. He also just scored with his left foot in a friendly vs real madrid and he got an assist the game before against barcelona, so it must be working.

 

The other thing as well is ive loaded fm scout up to check if the attribute for his weak foot has changed but it hasn't, maybe its just a glitch on the fm scout program.

[herne79]

25 minutes ago, MagicHat said:

The other thing as well is ive loaded fm scout up to check if the attribute for his weak foot has changed but it hasn't, maybe its just a glitch on the fm scout program.

Pinamonti starts the game with a "Reasonable" left foot.  As said above:

14 hours ago, herne79 said:

a player's weaker foot cannot be developed past "Reasonable", so if a player already has a "Reasonable" (or better) weaker foot then learning the Trait is pointless.

Why would it be a glitch?  You're trying to teach him something that it's not possible to do.

[MagicHat]

So i'm wasting my time training him to develop his weaker foot? This is all a bit confusing lol. So his weaker foot is reasonable and can never be improved? I would never expect both feet to be very strong but surely a world class player can develop a strong weaker foot?

 

Also like i said, he got an assist with his left foot and scored a goal with his left foot in 2 of my last 3 friendlys, so it must have worked on some level i'd have thought.

[HUNT3R]

20 minutes ago, MagicHat said:

So i'm wasting my time training him to develop his weaker foot? This is all a bit confusing lol. So his weaker foot is reasonable and can never be improved? I would never expect both feet to be very strong but surely a world class player can develop a strong weaker foot?

 

Also like i said, he got an assist with his left foot and scored a goal with his left foot in 2 of my last 3 friendlys, so it must have worked on some level i'd have thought.

You're asking questions that Herne already answered a couple of times. It can't improve beyond Reasonable.

[Spurs08]

2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

You're asking questions that Herne already answered a couple of times. It can't improve beyond Reasonable.

To be fair, surely the game shouldn't let you train the trait if it's entirely pointless for the player, let alone recommend you do so? (Not just from the perspective of helping users although that's definitely important: since it's still advised by coaches it sounds like the AI might be wasting their resources on it too).

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, Spurs08 said:

To be fair, surely the game shouldn't let you train the trait if it's entirely pointless for the player, let alone recommend you do so? (Not just from the perspective of helping users although that's definitely important: since it's still advised by coaches it sounds like the AI might be wasting their resources on it too).

Yeah that's another matter entirely. Whether or not the game should allow you, is probably up for debate. Coaches should not be recommending it, if they are. I think that we can all agree on.

[MagicHat]

Just now, Spurs08 said:

To be fair, surely the game shouldn't let you train the trait if it's entirely pointless for the player, let alone recommend you do so? (Not just from the perspective of helping users although that's definitely important: since it's still advised by coaches it sounds like the AI might be wasting their resources on it too).

i was just going to say this... why has my coach said he'll start him straight on it twice if it's not possible to improve? surely it would be better if the coach just replies that it's not possible to develop his weaker foot any more. I strongly disagree that a world class player can't improve his weak foot too, so maybe it needs altering slightly.

[MagicHat]

Guys having played 4 games in my season after starting training Pinamonti to develop his weak foot for the second time. he has only score 2 goals (1 left footed actually lol) out of 26 shots and last season he was scoring 1/4 shots... i think it's actually been detrimental to his performances... i've just cancelled the trait training. I will post here if his scoring picks back up in the next few games..

[zlatanera]

2 goals in 4 games? That's a tiny sample size and you have to look at where the shots are from as well - are they outside the box? Snapshots when he has no time on the ball?

 

[MagicHat]

20 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

2 goals in 4 games? That's a tiny sample size and you have to look at where the shots are from as well - are they outside the box? Snapshots when he has no time on the ball?

1 left foot goal

1 right foot goal (just outside edge of area)

4 left foot misses (all inside area)

7 right foot misses (3 outside area)

13 headed misses  (all inside area)

 

I've won 3 drawn 1, 0-0 vs man city despite him only scoring 2. What are your thoughts on this? I also noted most of the crosses that he missed headers were from Malcom on the left wing who i've just bought, perhaps he needs to blend in better and is crossing the ball too much from deep positions?

[zlatanera]

12 minutes ago, MagicHat said:

1 left foot goal

1 right foot goal (just outside edge of area)

4 left foot misses (all inside area)

7 right foot misses (3 outside area)

13 headed misses  (all inside area)

 

I've won 3 drawn 1, 0-0 vs man city despite him only scoring 2. What are your thoughts on this? I also noted most of the crosses that he missed headers were from Malcom on the left wing who i've just bought, perhaps he needs to blend in better and is crossing the ball too much from deep positions?

Its hard to judge statistics in isolation from knowing your tactic and players, but what I will say is that I have noticed a lot of missed headers from crosses on this game - do they tend to look like they're a little too high and he's getting under them and heading them over? 

[MagicHat]

33 minutes ago, zlatanera said:

Its hard to judge statistics in isolation from knowing your tactic and players, but what I will say is that I have noticed a lot of missed headers from crosses on this game - do they tend to look like they're a little too high and he's getting under them and heading them over? 

They usually dip between the oppositions central defenders and he either heads it to the keeper or over... he has 15 heading. He's just scored 2 against porto in the CL 1 right foot and 1 header.

[Snorks]

Here's my thoughts having had a player finish the training and still has the trait - taking on board what Herne has said. The player is in my u18s squad and  I don;t watch the games so can;t comment fully on what he does/doesn't do differently but:

Reading the wording of the coach report 'is now more comfortable using his weaker foot' and the trait 'tries to develop weaker foot'  would imply that, while the player may not actually improve in terms of attribute, he is more confident attempting things with that foot.

So, instead of previously, needing an extra touch to get the ball on his right foot for a cross, he would just cross with his left. Or, in a shooting position, attempt to shoot with his left rather than try and control and position himself for a shot with his right.

If he was 'Reasonable' on his weaker foot, he would still be 'Reasonable' but would be more likely to take it first time with is weak foot than before?

[MagicHat]

8 minutes ago, Snorks said:

Here's my thoughts having had a player finish the training and still has the trait - taking on board what Herne has said. The player is in my u18s squad and  I don;t watch the games so can;t comment fully on what he does/doesn't do differently but:

Reading the wording of the coach report 'is now more comfortable using his weaker foot' and the trait 'tries to develop weaker foot'  would imply that, while the player may not actually improve in terms of attribute, he is more confident attempting things with that foot.

So, instead of previously, needing an extra touch to get the ball on his right foot for a cross, he would just cross with his left. Or, in a shooting position, attempt to shoot with his left rather than try and control and position himself for a shot with his right.

If he was 'Reasonable' on his weaker foot, he would still be 'Reasonable' but would be more likely to take it first time with is weak foot than before?

how long has he had the trait? mine only had it for a few weeks... think i'm just gonna stop doing it to be honest

[herne79]

@MagicHat We're going off topic here.

If you'd like tactical help please create a thread in the Tactics & Training forum posting your detailed tactical set up and the issues you've been having.

Rest assured though the issues you have recently been having have nothing to do with the develop weaker foot trait because - as said before - it cannot have any impact.  It's purely coincidental: you're putting two and two together and making five.  It's unrelated.

11 minutes ago, Snorks said:

If he was 'Reasonable' on his weaker foot, he would still be 'Reasonable' but would be more likely to take it first time with is weak foot than before?

The only thing learning the Trait does is to develop the weaker foot up to a maximum of Reasonable.  It doesn't make a player favour a different foot more, it just makes them more proficient when they do use it.  So a right footed player attempting a left footed cross might be a bit more accurate when he kicks the ball (for example).

3 minutes ago, MagicHat said:

think i'm just gonna stop doing it to be honest

You should never have started it in the first place because it has no impact.  You're wasting time and unnecessarily adding to a player's training workload.  In fact you're actually taking time away from your player's training of his attributes by persisting with this pointless Trait learning.  You're trying to make him learn a Trait which cannot have any impact when that time could (should) be spent developing attributes.  I appreciate that's not clear in game, and arguably should be, but that's a different matter.  Stop doing it !  

[MagicHat]

2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

You should never have started it in the first place because it has no impact.  You're wasting time and unnecessarily adding to a player's training workload.  In fact you're actually taking time away from your player's training of his attributes by persisting with this pointless Trait learning.  You're trying to make him learn a Trait which cannot have any impact when that time could (should) be spent developing attributes.  I appreciate that's not clear in game, and arguably should be, but that's a different matter.  Stop doing it !  

With my coach agreeing to train the trait twice i just assumed it would keep developing until eventually the coach would say it wasn't possible any more. I just always thought it'd be nice to have my star striker score an extra few goals a season with his weaker foot.

Going to learn him to try to beat offside trap instead i think

[Snorks]

26 minutes ago, herne79 said:

 You're wasting time and unnecessarily adding to a player's training workload.  In fact you're actually taking time away from your player's training of his attributes by persisting with this pointless Trait learning.  You're trying to make him learn a Trait which cannot have any impact when that time could (should) be spent developing attributes.  I appreciate that's not clear in game, and arguably should be, but that's a different matter.  Stop doing it !  

That's the core of what  I was trying to understand. 

Thank you Herne, very valuable for me.

[fm2020.smith]

arnt there other factors at play as well like personality and determination as to  how well they train and how quick they learn stuff. best bet is get him a good tutor and get his dertmination up. ...... i think lol