Dickie Greenleaf Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Has anyone come close or attempted in trying to replicate Simeone's Atletico? seems to be going okayish so far and the pressing looks good etc but I'm struggling with set-pieces, we waste every corner/free kick and defending them also looks like a shambles... has anyone found a solid routine for set pieces? once the next patch comes out and hopefully fullbacks are fixed this should be even better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 yes they had 1 more shot on target than us but at least 6 shots of theirs on target were from outside of the box. after 7 games: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoOSTAR Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 yes they had 1 more shot on target than us but at least 6 shots of theirs on target were from outside of the box. after 7 games: Be prepared for questions about your tactic, what formation/teamshape/instructions you do etc. Would be nice to include them in your post! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der General Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Did you use PIs and OIs? Looking good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mika del siro Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 How many times you used load game in that 7-8 games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Did you use PIs and OIs? Looking good. sometimes I will apply hard tackling to exotic players like messi/ronaldo etc and if a winger is very one footed such as bale i will make them show him onto the weaker foot, i'll just release the tactic when i deem it is good enough, still having some issues How many times you used load game in that 7-8 games? none thank u come again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Interesting thread. I've been tempted to start up with Atletico a few times over the past couple of years but never really have. They have so much young talent, and the new stadium only a couple of years away. How do you find the two forwards contribute? Do they do much defensively or just occupy the two central defenders? Are you getting most of your goals on the counter? I was tempted to try them with a 4-1-4-1 approach but they have too much striker talent to just use one striker. For set-pieces, I've been using Guido's mixed routine posted on Strikerless, which seems to work reasonably. You won't score tons of goals, but some scrappy rebound ones. http://strikerless.com/2015/11/15/set-pieces-various-routines-and-their-merits/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghents Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Oh hell yeah a defensive mentality tactic. I've been thinking about poking around with a defensive or contain tactic. I'll also second Guido's mixed routine. I always use it. I don't remember if it has the defensive routine I'm using too or not, but I rarely concede corners and it's typically just heavily defending near post. Every blue moon I'll concede a far post header, but not often enough to make me change yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'm interested in this, largely because the Duty allocation is pretty aggressive on the flanks and your goals against are zero. What is the source of your goals over the games played so far? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'm interested in this, largely because the Duty allocation is pretty aggressive on the flanks and your goals against are zero. What is the source of your goals over the games played so far? most of my goals come from a through ball/cross from out wide into the strikers but my right midfielder has the instruction to roam and cut inside with the ball like arda turan used to do at atletico so he too is scoring a few, haven't scored a single goal from a corner/free kick so far which is a bit annoying though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 Interesting thread. I've been tempted to start up with Atletico a few times over the past couple of years but never really have. They have so much young talent, and the new stadium only a couple of years away.How do you find the two forwards contribute? Do they do much defensively or just occupy the two central defenders? Are you getting most of your goals on the counter? I was tempted to try them with a 4-1-4-1 approach but they have too much striker talent to just use one striker. For set-pieces, I've been using Guido's mixed routine posted on Strikerless, which seems to work reasonably. You won't score tons of goals, but some scrappy rebound ones. http://strikerless.com/2015/11/15/set-pieces-various-routines-and-their-merits/ so, because the forwards both have move into channels the idea is that one will always be pulled a couple of defenders out of the area and leaving space for the other but on this fm it isn't really working properly also i'm not sure about the roles yet, i need to test some others out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 so, because the forwards both have move into channels the idea is that one will always be pulled a couple of defenders out of the area and leaving space for the other but on this fm it isn't really working properly also i'm not sure about the roles yet, i need to test some others out You could always try one as an AF and one was a DLF-S. Or try the hard worker on as a DF-S. I know its not exactly as Simeone plays it, but moving one player back into a DM and going with a single striker might provide more stability. Drop Griezmann into a WM-A or W-A on the left side, move Koke inside, and one of the two CMs drops behind. If nothing else, might be effective for killing off a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertoNUFC Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 This looks superb, really nice to see a strong defensive tactic. Really do hope you upload it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 also experimenting with this: this is more like diego simeone's atletico of today with carrasco on left, similar to how he set up home vs galatasaray so far it seems decent whilst still keeping the shape i want a little high on the center etc but thats because we're home vs baddies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 For set-pieces, I've been using Guido's mixed routine posted on Strikerless, which seems to work reasonably. You won't score tons of goals, but some scrappy rebound ones. http://strikerless.com/2015/11/15/set-pieces-various-routines-and-their-merits/ thanks for this, we seem to be a bit more of a threat now from corners Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean0987654321 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Interesting, I used almost a similar approach but I used two WPs and a SS partnering a DLF or CF. Might post it later Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCapone Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Sent you a msg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Interesting, I used almost a similar approach but I used two WPs and a SS partnering a DLF or CF. Might post it later any luck with it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuanDewar Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Craziest thing to me about this is that you played one friendly right before the season started and weren't completely knackered on your arse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 Craziest thing to me about this is that you played one friendly right before the season started and weren't completely knackered on your arse might explain why i had like 4 first team injuries straight up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean0987654321 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Alright just as promised, here is my own interpretation of the tactic Defensive For the same reason, OP chose this mentality. Very Fluid Everyone is expected to attack and defend. Especially the strikers. My TIs are More Direct Pass Into Space Much Higher Tempo Play Narrower/Exploit the Middle Close Down Much More/Get Stuck In Be More Disiplined Those were the obvious TIs PIs GK: Throw It Long, Distribute Quickly I expect the goalie to get rid of the ball once he gets it. CWB (a) x 2 Both FBs were expected to provide the width when in attack, so this role makes sense. CD © x 2: Close Down Much Less, Tackle Harder, Pass It Shorter These guys are usually the last line of defense for AM DM(s)/A: Tackle Harder The Gabi and Thiago role. Basically Simeone's own version of the cage. Both men occassionally supporting the attack but their main job is to defend. WP (a) x 2: Get Further Foward, Switch Positions The only playmakers of the side and they are also expected to switch sides like Turan and Koke did. SS (a): Roam From Position The Griezzmann role. When I watch him play, I just saw this role fitting him like a glove. Positioned as an AM at the start but gets aggressively forward like a striker CF (s): Move Into Channels The jury is still out on this one. I'm convinced that a psuedo-TM fits Jackson's role but I'm stuck between DLF, CF, or even F9. Corners Aim at near post FKs Near Post again I tried hard to get even the set pieces that Simeone uses right and I think I'm close As for the games. Sometimes its like a Cold War. I can beat some big teams with this like Bayern. Also when I'm in those types of big games, I get my front 1.5 to mark the CMs to try to emulate how deep they go back in those games. Some results 1-0 win over Bayern http://speedy.sh/DXKmu/Bayern-v-Man-Utd.pkm 1-0 win over Liverpool http://speedy.sh/vcVfQ/Liverpool-v-Man-Utd.pkm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghents Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 You could pair a "mobile target man" as the striker perhaps. A DLF-S with roam, move into channels and dribble less. And interesting playing a 442 deep, essentially. I've been working on that. Some ideas I'll steal for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean0987654321 Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 @Jean0987654321same mentality and team shape ,except the one DM is AP(A) in MC position same roles except WPs ,I use WMs i use F9 instead of CF but i am not happy why u choose WPs ? (also i use shorter passing and lower tempo ,the others T.I the same) Shorter Passing?? Lower Tempo? Not really the Simeone way. Also, I use WPs because I think they emulate the movement of the Interiors of the side. Both Koke and Turan were playmakers and were never pure wingers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 This is really impressive to see. Not the instructions themselves (I just didn't want to quote all your pictures and create a huge post) I really love what you've done. You've taken the basic 4-4-2 and created something that not only defends extremely well, but scores loads of goals. I'm really impressed. Especially because in this current match engine defending has been largely flawed and, at times, horrifying to watch. I don't get to watch Atleti very much, so I have to ask: are they really THAT narrow ? That seems a bit extreme to me but I suppose a 4-4-2 is wide-ish by default anyway so. Yeah. But this is really cool. You've obviously created the idea "counter-attacking" style. And I say "counter-attacking" because your team clearly 1. scores goals 2. defends somewhat aggressively to close down players. 3. plays a fairly direct game on the flanks. and 4. you're making those passes into open spaces for quick players to run on to. Really good stuff here. I'd love to see if you could replicate another RL manager like maybe Pep or LVG? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean0987654321 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 No ,no i didn't want to emulate the Simeone way , just saw your formation and was like mine ,nothing else Oh...okay.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyyakuza78 Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 If you can find rashidi's blog, addictedtofm.com, you'll see he did a really nice enterpretation of Atletico's tactics. Having read Cleons recent post on counter attacking however I would be inclined to remove a lot of the attack duties, in order to have your players fall back a bit more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted December 6, 2015 Share Posted December 6, 2015 If you can find rashidi's blog, addictedtofm.com, you'll see he did a really nice enterpretation of Atletico's tactics.Having read Cleons recent post on counter attacking however I would be inclined to remove a lot of the attack duties, in order to have your players fall back a bit more. Normally I would agree but... the results speak volumes. However I also think there is a big difference between playing "on the counter" and playing "counter-attacking." Think of it like... playing on the counter is hoping to hit them on the break, whereas counter-attacking is actively hitting them with quick attacks. There's a significant difference because counter-attacking doesn't sit back to try and edge a close game. It's a strategy that can impose its will on other teams, rather than one that hopes to just break through at some point for a goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMourinho Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I am thinking of playing with two deep-lying playmakers as a central midfield pairing, one on defend and the other on support. How would you think that would work in a set-up like in the opening post? Anders, Sweden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I am thinking of playing with two deep-lying playmakers as a central midfield pairing, one on defend and the other on support. How would you think that would work in a set-up like in the opening post?Anders, Sweden It risks them both getting very deep and narrow, as they'll look to make themselves available for a pass from the defence. Watch a few minutes of a match to see if that is true. If it happens, you end up leaving a lot of space in the MC area, which can be damaging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababooey Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 It risks them both getting very deep and narrow, as they'll look to make themselves available for a pass from the defence. Watch a few minutes of a match to see if that is true. If it happens, you end up leaving a lot of space in the MC area, which can be damaging. To build off of this: I also think your tactic will cause too much passing to be concentrated in the center of the pitch. When you have a playmaker role, your team will try to find that guy quite often and get him the ball. If you've got two playmaker roles next to one another you need to figure out how to compensate for that, because you've basically stuck a huge magnet for the ball right in the middle of the pitch. That could be a big mistake. But it could work in the right set up, I'm sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rninejr Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 i will honestly replicate this setup exactly like what u've posted above then learning how it works in detail also with atletico madrid (created a new FMT save just for learning more tactics) I admit that i never did great with mentality settings below counter, not to mention never achieved any clear success using 4-4-2 (n its variants) n your results are quite amazing. I always wants to make my own original tactic but this time i think i need to try someone else's tactical knowledge in order to expand my tactical view btw, what match training u're using for this after your team achieved acceptable tactical fluidity? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneRomney Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 From the press conference before the Sporting match a month ago: Playing style: It’s still early to say. We’re competing well. After Real Sociedad we’ve competed well in all our games, beyond our last two draws. For those who don’t know their history or what we’re all about, it’s work, pressure, counter-attack, solid defence... Those who want to change history go against the Atleti way. It’s possible to play well in a lot of different ways. There’s no reason to confuse the fans, Atleti is work, effort, counter-attacking, competing... That’s the way whatever the comments are. Getting the ball to the strikers: We have to get the ammunition to Jackson and Torres from the flanks. When they play with their backs to goal they move away from the box. We never went out to have twenty chances on goal but we're still making four or five clear opportunities. (Spoken like a true FM manager) Regarding their midfield duo when playing 442, I think this gif sums it up pretty nicely: Both Tiago and Gabi have an insane work ethic and they press like madmen from their own box to well above the midfield area of the opposition. Take a look at how they press up the pitch: My point is, it is virtually impossible to recreate this without having intense opposition instructions. Observe Gabi here in the latest gif. He chases his man waaaay up the pitch and finally his partner Tiago Mendes easily takes the ball from him. As we know, having a lot of OI's will break your shape. It will also lead to more cards and injuries. This will be the difficult part in FM 16, IMO. To get that way of play without having an exposed midfield. These gifs are from their strongest performance this season, against Valencia. Still, it is the way Simeone wants them to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyyakuza78 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I think those Gifs show the selective pressing in action. I'm no expert on Atletico at all, but my impression of them, especially in big games is that they sit deep, keep shape, channel opposition into the centre where they can nick the ball and then hit them on the counter. I don't know if this is still their style of play. The first gif sort of shows that style, the two centre mids back off and hold the shape and make the tackle at the correct time. The second gif is more Atletico in a more aggressive stance, pressing higher up the pitch and when the ball is on the flanks, this seems to be a trigger for them to press even harder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fudge for hands Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I know it might not emulate Atletico's style perfectly yet stfumug, but your first couple of posts and instructions has worked a treat on my save. Really impressed by the solid defending and attacking capabilities from the 4-4-2. Holds the big teams and breaks down the small ones at the same time, it seems. I have to also thank Cleon for inspiring me to play defensive football in the first place with his articles, which made me so excited to try the concepts used in this tactic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
breum Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Out of curiousity, how did you determine which striker to set to the support and which to the attack role? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghents Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Anyone done any more with this? I've been playing around with a DF-D and SS pairing up top and going back and forth between 2CM or 2DM. Just not sure of what the best pairing is. It works wonders for a while, but in the second half of the season it's draw/concede late city. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneRomney Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Anyone done any more with this? I've been playing around with a DF-D and SS pairing up top and going back and forth between 2CM or 2DM. Just not sure of what the best pairing is.It works wonders for a while, but in the second half of the season it's draw/concede late city. I have more or less the same experiences. I find it rather difficult to arrange a consistently well performing 4-4-2. It starts off well and then things fall apart. Haven't given up though, but I think one must tinker with the midfield duo and maybe shape it a little differently to provide more defensive coverage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghents Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I ended up finding this thread while poking around: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-15-tactics/275763-diego-simeone-inspired-l-4-4-2-l-counter-attacking-pressing-artisan-15-3-0-a.html I loaded it in FM15 and converted it over to FM16 and so far it's pretty good. I'll upload the 16 version later on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special_One Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I ended up finding this thread while poking around: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-15-tactics/275763-diego-simeone-inspired-l-4-4-2-l-counter-attacking-pressing-artisan-15-3-0-a.htmlI loaded it in FM15 and converted it over to FM16 and so far it's pretty good. I'll upload the 16 version later on. would be great if you could I did use this as one of the only downloaded tactics I used in fm15 and was a really good emulation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 I might revisit this soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneRomney Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I might revisit this soon What happened to the tactic you made for this thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie Greenleaf Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 What happened to the tactic you made for this thread? I stopped working on it but I'll be working on it again soon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneRomney Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I stopped working on it but I'll be working on it again soon Nice. Look forward to seeing how it goes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghents Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 would be great if you could I did use this as one of the only downloaded tactics I used in fm15 and was a really good emulation Here you go: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1kz3cfdglqngkiz/Atletico_F2415BA1-A82E-4A8A-B356-F8362952319A.fmf?dl=0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luka_zg Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 What I created was this: GK/D DR/FB/A CD/D CD/D DL/FB/A MR/W/A MCR/AP/S MCL/DLP/D ML/W/A STR/TREQ/A STL/CF/S mentality: defensive or counter (you can chose which one you like, I had great results with both but tend to stick with counter) TI: pass to space,higher tempo,close down more,prevent gk distribution You can also switch DLP to CM, or you can switch striker roles maybe with DLF instead of Treq. Depends what kind of players you have. Sometimes I had problems against good teams where they would start to dominate in my half way too much because of my deep defenive line so than I had to switch to more attacking 4-2-3-1 but in majority of games, this system worked perfect. I've played this with Real Madrid and really dominated the league. Lost in CL final though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iMan Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I'm 11 points clear in La Liga with AM using. Gk Wb A Cd Cd Wb a Wp a Cm d Cm s Wp a dlf s AF Flexible/Control Much Deeper Much Narrower Pass into space Be more disciplined I have the most goals and least conceded in the league. I find counter to be too slow. The transitions with control are much quicker. Also it's quicker and more direct in general play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamneallyons Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 nice to see a positive from a defensive mentality! sides will still counter when you use defensive, if not more effectively because your side should sit deeper! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghents Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 nice to see a positive from a defensive mentality! sides will still counter when you use defensive, if not more effectively because your side should sit deeper! Honestly, the biggest issue I have are pinball set piece goals, or the far post free kick. And Sergio Aguero. That *******. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakland Stomper Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Honestly, the biggest issue I have are pinball set piece goals, or the far post free kick. And Sergio Aguero. That *******. The Artisan tactic that you posted was my primary in the waining days of FM 2015. Remember that he didn't mimic the Simeone's set pieces which are a key aspect of Atletico's strategy. I haven't had much of a chance to try to replicate this in FM 2016. What I've had has gone into trying to develop a Gasperini 3-4-3 which has been about as effective a Genoa's season to date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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