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Oakland Stomper

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  1. I'm just starting to delve into FM20. Is there any discernible difference between the IF role and the new IW role when assigned to the AM strata? If so, what are they?
  2. No doubt that your tactic is working well for you but is doesn't really bear much resemblance to the way that Norway played under Drillo. His first consideration was have a secure defense, so until late in his career he always used a 451, 4141 template. Within that. like all good managers, he made adjustments based upon the opposition. That's why the "Flo pass" was used sporadically and for a very short time (1992-94). It not only required a dominant wide player, but also a left back, in this case Stig Bjornebye, who deliver pinpoint passes from deep. Drillo admitted that it was actually a very easy tactic to defend. If you want to recreate what Drillo did while Norway manager you really need to use the 41221 formation. The mentality can be adjusted to the opponent and the venue. You may want to read this thread from a few years ago. -OS
  3. I do feel you on this and hopefully SI addresses the issue in FM20. Specifically, the use of the narrow 433, a totally unrealistic tactic IRL because of it's inherent vulnerabilities, has been a cheat when used either by human players or by the AI.
  4. I really suggest that you do take the time to read through paragraphs, if not more on how to set up tactics. It won't suck the life out of you when you have the satisfaction of building an effective tactic or tactics. I also suggest that you read through Rashidi's posts and watch a few of his video (as time allows because they can be long and involved) because he has more "stick time" with FM than anyone else who I can think of who posts here. Successful tactics require an understanding of team and player instructions instructions, along with player roles and how they interact with a given match engine. Since I haven't had the time to play FM19 even though I own it, I'm not a person who should be outlining specifics here but there is an example from FM2013 (or was in FM12 or FM14, I forget). A fellow from Norway created two tactics, one attacking and the other controlling (now positive). Both had balanced team shapes and neither had a single player in an attacking role, yet both were great counterattacking tactics because of the underlying mentality and individual player instructions. In the following version of FM they wouldn't work because the key role of defensive winger had been removed from the AM strata and match engine had changed.
  5. Simoene's tactics are not about formations, nor are they formationally rigid, though he does require complete adherence to the plan. He had spent the bulk of his playing career in Italy and that influenced his initial style of play. When he arrived at Atleti he found a team of disparate parts that was playing far below it's potential. That was in fact the recent history of the club. His first task was the stabilize the situation and impose (that cannot be emphasized enough) his ideas on the club. If a player wasn't capable or willing to abide by this they were benched and eventually jettisoned. So if you want your team to play like Simeone's, the first thing that you need to do is get the correct players AND get rid of those who aren't right. If a player is anything less than 15 in determination, work-rate and teamwork, they won't play for Simeone. Of course one might need to compromise at lower levels, but certainly don't go below 13 in any of these traits. Also, look very carefully at the professionalism of the player. If it's dodgy, get rid of them. The club is a reflection of who Simeone was as a player. It was a Spanish side playing like and Italian one. As for the actual tactics, yes, Simeone has used a 442/4411/4222/42211 in the bulk of his matches in charge. I think that was his comfort zone. All the same, he's used a very aggressive 433 in matches against clearly inferior clubs, and 451/4141 in tough Champions League matches. The things that are unwavering are the core concepts. 1.) Never let the other side attack down the middle. 2.) Use the touchline as your friend; push the opposition wide and trap once they're there. 3.) Win the ball in the middle 3rd and attack very directly from there, hopefully getting in behind the opponent quickly. 4.) If the ball is won in the defending 3rd, never boot it aimlessly, play out of the back. 5.) Outside backs, not midfielders provide the width and will cross often and sometimes early. Use this advise to set up a Simeone tactic and you should be most of the way there. Simeone's sides never played cautiously or on the counter except for on occasion in the Champions League or maybe in his 1-2 years in La Liga. Rather, they were usually balanced or sometimes even positive, with a lower line of engagement. At least thus far in 2019-20, Simeone has evolved. Atleti are no longer inferior to Barca and Real. In fact it's pretty clear that they've surpassed their Madrid rivals in terms of the quality of the first 11. They have a beautiful new stadium that they fill and they have had Champions League money coming in for 7 years, so there's no point in sitting back any longer. They are an elite side and their style of play reflects it.
  6. jc, I'm very well aware of how formations work in FM. I just went back and watched the match up until the two red cards and both Jean and I are incorrect. Simeone lined his side up in a VERY unique 4312/433 which likely cannot be replicated in FM. The central defenders are bog standard with short passing. Outside of them there were two complete wingbacks on attack (very!). The midfield was where it became interesting as all three players were in the DM strata. Partey appears to have been a halfback, while Koke and Saul moved wide in possession to cover for the space left by the outside backs. They also acted as deep playmakers and the central defenders seemed partnered with them in building out of the back. Neither ventured too far forward. I'm not sure what their role would be in FM. Up top is also a bit challenging to replicate. Out of possession Lemar stayed central and slightly deeper than Morata and Felix, but not always. In attack there was lots of movement and position changes. He might be a Support Striker, but I fear that role might drop him too deep. False 9? Morata dropped deeper than slightly deeper than Felix, but not much as both stayed pretty high up the pitch. Maybe Pressing Forward on support for him. Felix was more advanced and less involved in defending, so Advanced Forward seems right for him. This is the same shape as Simeone used for part of the pre-season match against Real. We'll see if he sticks with it.
  7. Nope, I watched the match. It was a 433 from the outset. Simeone has done something similar in low key cup matches against side that bunker and by rep that's what he expected from Getafe. Simeone was trying to flood the midfield but Bordales, who's a brilliant manager, simply tucked and dropped. From a tactical standpoint it was a brilliant match.
  8. That screenshot was from the season opener last weekend. I think that the point is that Atletico appear to be playing a very different formation, very much a 433. Simone is flexible and apparently evolutionary.
  9. Thanks for the input. I was not only basing the use of Gosling on his greater number of starts, but more so on what is written in this article. https://www.football365.com/news/tactics-teaching-and-talent-bournemouths-transformation
  10. I've watched a ton of Atleti matches since Simeone became manager, and while there are general principles such as narrow/vertically compressed defending and quick, often direct movement in possession, the actual match day instructions tend to be quite specific to the opponent. There are certain players, Koke, Saul and to a degree Partey who are positioned to either counter specific opponents or exploit weaknesses. Another really critical aspect would be the use of the opposition instructions as this is something that Simeone would spend countless hours on if FM and reality were the same. Getting the traps right is intricate. I think that this something that Experienced Defender is alluding to. mp_87 is certainly correct when he says that only a certain personality will succeed under Simeone, and I will also assert that he is quick to part ways with a player if he doesn't see a full commitment. Lastly, while Atleti line up in 4-4-2 the vast majority of the time, Simeone is willing to change it up to a 4-5-1/4-3-3 if he thinks that there's a need. A few years back in a cup match against a lower division side they played what was very close to a narrow 4-3-3 and pressed and trapped relatively high up the pitch.
  11. I think that we might be correcting some of the "tactical nonsense" to which AFC referred to. I'm going to keep tinkering with the concepts discussed in two parallel leagues and see how it goes. - OS
  12. I made a similar point earlier in the thread regarding King. This might line-up a bit with AFC's interpretation as he may well be better suited to being a SS. My motivation for starting this discussion wasn't purely to replicate Bournemouth. I also wanted to create a framework for fast paced counterattacking style that wasn't purely reliant on direct passing. Thanks to you and AFC I think that we've gotten almost all of the way there for both. -OS
  13. Thanks once again. The issue of the player maker was addressed in my previous response. I think that AF is the way to with Wilson based upon what both of you are saying. Mobility is really the key to his game and he often stays to the left half space looking for the ball. I will post an update of the tactic shortly.
  14. Thanks for your input. My concern with the Shadow Striker are the changes which have been made how he behaves in FM19 (ie: reduced penetration). That's why I went with the F9 as King strength is at making runs from deep both with and without the ball. I would have considered going with a Pressing Forward, but they tend to be more static in attack from what I have heard. Whatever role King is in, he biases to the right with Wilson to the left. I understand that the counterattack in FM19 is different than it has been in the past, but I also think that Bournemouth try to be quite quick with the ball in the final third under any circumstance. One observation which I have made is that while attacks generally narrow in the final third, they begin wide in the middle third with balls played to Fraser, Brooks or one of the forwards dropping into a half space. I know that you said that Brooks sits narrower, but I don't think that I'd agree with that asI've seen him hug the touchline and once he gets the ball dribble directly across and into the open space as neither central midfielder seems in a hurry to get there. So IW(s) seems right for him. For me, Fraser goes down the touchline too often to be an IW, so I'll stick with WM(a) there. Yes, I can see where Cook would in fact be a DLP. Per Football365, that's why he starts less often than Gosling, who is mores of tackler/runner (I'm being kind here), and less of a passer. Based upon the feedback that I have gotten, the only two remaining in possession instructions are "work the ball into the box" and "slightly higher tempo." I am tempted to add "Play Wider" but I'm going to leave it as is for now. A question that I have is regarding the Transition instructions. Should I keep "Distribute Quickly?" I'm not sure if this is accurate.
  15. - King generally seems to be the F9, though his attributes don't fit the role. You're likely right on the other (Wilson) role. I was considering going with CF so that he would hold up the ball when the situation dictates. Wilson seems well suited to that role. AF or Poacher would seem to make him a little too one-dimensional. - I chose Gosling because per Whoscored, he's started more matches in the CM position than Cook. I also think that he fits what Howe wants a bit better at this stage. My concern with any kind of playmaker in midfield is that he would attract the ball a bit too much and hence would slow the attacks. You would know better on this that I do though. - Agreed on Fraser and Brooks. Both start wide, but Fraser's movement is varied, though always forward, while Brooks always cuts inside. - Agreed on Bournemouth generally being more Balanced than Cautious. On the lower mentality they seem to play more of a 4-2-2-1-1. That's how they flummoxed Chelsea. - Based on what I've read, I think that you're right about "Run at Defense." All of the primary attackers have in hard wired as you stated and none of the other positions due so IRL. Same for "Be More Disciplined." I'm going to drop both and post the update soon. -OS
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