Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted December 13, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted December 13, 2012 Bamford and Feruz are not ready for the level of competition at which Chelsea play. Lukaku probably isn't either. We have zero strikers suitable for our level of competition. (Sturridge has never been given enough of a chance there for me to suggest he is) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Rather surprised that Marin didn't feature at all today, especially as the game was over in about 50 minutes. Routine win today and from the 50th minute onwards it had a feel of an exhibition game from our point of view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyosullivan Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Bamford and Feruz are not ready for the level of competition at which Chelsea play. Lukaku probably isn't either.We have zero strikers suitable for our level of competition. (Sturridge has never been given enough of a chance there for me to suggest he is) Imo Lukaku is more ready than Sturridge. Think there's a chance he could really challenge for the line up place next year in the 2013/14 season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Even with his attitude problems Sturridge >>> Lukaku, tbqh. Lukaku's had like 2/3 good appearances at WBA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whirlwind Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Four, today's was an own goal. One was a penalty. One was an absolute gimme. All came against seriously sub-standard opposition.I'm not gonna give him any credit until he gives me good reason to. In any event, we need a new striker since we're low on numbers there. Let's not split hairs here. We can disregard all his contributions, not just goals, until he stops bonking your girlfriend (which, if it's actually happening, means I'm really on your side). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted December 13, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted December 13, 2012 I liked his cross for the second own goal if it helps? Better in recent games than the 10 before it, still hopelessly below standard. I've relented on bothering to criticise him since people know how I feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 We're not really low on numbers, youth team/ reserve team has plenty but Chelsea refuse to use them You cannot be serious. People still falling for the old Torres "boom-bust cycle" like that Liverpool one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Mata scores in his first game in yet another competition Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoleman1 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thought we looked good today. Monterrey aren't great obviously but we did tear them apart at times and their goal only really came when we seemingly couldn't be bothered. Corinthians will obviously be harder to play against but if we put in a good performance we should beat them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 As Man City fans will find out, once you get rich the reserve team and youngsters fall by the way side. Why risk developing an unproven youngster such as Bamford when you can go and spend £40+ million on Falcao? The last youngster Chelsea promoted to their first team was John Terry wasn't it (probably missing someone really obvious!)? Who knows how players such as Bridcutt may have turned out if they'd been given the opportunities in the 1st team? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted December 13, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted December 13, 2012 Ryan Bertrand has made the step up now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sned Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Rolfe, I know you are responsible for the ChelseaYouth twitter page, but does it disappoint you at all that you put in all this effort for players that will (aside from very rare exceptions) make little or no impact in the first team of the club you support? Has your enthusiasm ever waned at the thought of most of your work being a reference point for other clubs supporters when they sign your players? This genuinely isn't a troll post btw, I'm just interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man11 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I get the impression these days he just supports the Reserves/Youth and really doesn't care about the 1st team anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 He is 'ambivalent' to the first team iirc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted December 13, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted December 13, 2012 I get the impression these days he just supports the Reserves/Youth and really doesn't care about the 1st team anymore. More and more with every passing week. Not even exaggerating either; it genuinely annoyed me last season when a first team home game clashed with a youth game (12.45 kickoffs suck for this season) and I felt obliged to go to the first team game because I had a ST and had therefore already paid for it. Didn't renew last summer (for many reasons), problem averted. I'm still a Chelsea fan first and foremost and that'll never ever go away, and I've still gone to a good number of games this season, but it's not as important to me as it was 5 years ago say, and that's just part of me as a person changing as much as it is Chelsea. Rolfe, I know you are responsible for the ChelseaYouth twitter page, but does it disappoint you at all that you put in all this effort for players that will (aside from very rare exceptions) make little or no impact in the first team of the club you support? Has your enthusiasm ever waned at the thought of most of your work being a reference point for other clubs supporters when they sign your players?This genuinely isn't a troll post btw, I'm just interested. My frustrations at the lack of opportunity at Chelsea (hell, anywhere, I'd like to see every club use their academy) don't really impact my enjoyment of youth football or youth development. I learned quite a while ago to separate the two because realistically, it's never going to happen. The real enjoyment and charm I get from it is learning how and why players progress (or don't), the different techniques that go into coaching youngsters and what helps and aids them on their path to professional football. Loads of people (I can't say everyone) end up finding a niche element of their favourite pasttimes; in football that can be the social aspect of a day at football, it can be tactics, photography, anything. Mine has ended up being development of talent and it's extended across all of my major sporting interests too (which in turn helps me have even more perspectives on things). Enthusiasm has never waned; I think it continues to grow instead. A major part of it as well is the lack of ******** around the younger game. It's just football, played largely with enthusiasm and a fair amount of honest naivety even at elite development levels. No controversy, no drama. Quite appealing to me tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sned Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thanks for the reply. Although it's a massively simplistic viewpoint which I'm about to use (as I don't have the time to expand it any further), a lot of people would be in agreement that the excessive money has ultimately poisoned a lot of elements in the game and led to a larger number of fans feeling this ambivalence. With teams spending (relative) fortunes now on assembling better and better youth sides, have you seen much of the negativity that you feel towards first team, Premier League football seeping down to the youth level? Basically, you mention the 'lack of ********' surrounding youth football, but is that changing with younger players being paid more than ever before etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted December 13, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted December 13, 2012 I haven't really seen that. I've only been going/really interested in youth football since 2006 so things had already started to change dramatically before then but apart from the way some clubs now act to try and 'protect' their youngsters (I can see both sides of the issue on this) it's still a world away from top flight football. Interest/coverage in it has boomed a bit in that time, for better and for worse. Plenty of good souls out there who know their stuff and are engaging, interesting and have their heads screwed on, but just as many (if not more) who see Islam Feruz score a coupla goals and hail him as ready to become a 50 goal scorer in the first team. The latter can be educated over time though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man11 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 My frustrations at the lack of opportunity at Chelsea (hell, anywhere, I'd like to see every club use their academy) don't really impact my enjoyment of youth football or youth development. I learned quite a while ago to separate the two because realistically, it's never going to happen. The real enjoyment and charm I get from it is learning how and why players progress (or don't), the different techniques that go into coaching youngsters and what helps and aids them on their path to professional football. Loads of people (I can't say everyone) end up finding a niche element of their favourite pasttimes; in football that can be the social aspect of a day at football, it can be tactics, photography, anything. Mine has ended up being development of talent and it's extended across all of my major sporting interests too (which in turn helps me have even more perspectives on things).Enthusiasm has never waned; I think it continues to grow instead. A major part of it as well is the lack of ******** around the younger game. It's just football, played largely with enthusiasm and a fair amount of honest naivety even at elite development levels. No controversy, no drama. Quite appealing to me tbh. One of the advantages of watching a lot of lower league football is that you get to see far more youngsters given a go and chucked in at the deep end because teams can't afford to keep a large squad and/or the talent gap between the youngsters and the level they're playing at is far lower. The downside to this of course being that you sometimes see youngsters who are forced into the 1st team when they clearly aren't ready and being put into sink or swim situations than can ruin them just as well as it can make them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robokid87 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 One of the advantages of watching a lot of lower league football is that you get to see far more youngsters given a go and chucked in at the deep end because teams can't afford to keep a large squad and/or the talent gap between the youngsters and the level they're playing at is far lower. The downside to this of course being that you sometimes see youngsters who are forced into the 1st team when they clearly aren't ready and being put into sink or swim situations than can ruin them just as well as it can make them. First part of that is why I've taken a bigger and bigger interest in Bournemouth over the past few years, there was a period where the academy was churning out strikers making instant impacts (Vokes, Pitman, McQuoid, Ings) and it was great fun seeing them improve week on week (not that I watched them anywhere near every week mind, but I can remember seeing McQuoid make a few sub appearances, then a few decent starts and then when he really came to life). The other side of that though is when they start getting recognition from outside and inevitably end up leaving, which isn't awful in itself but is a bit dispiriting when they never play - though in the cases of McQuoid and Pitman that's lead to them returning which is nice to see. Found myself being bored by the first team this season too, I was pleased when we beat Arsenal and Spurs and angry when di Matteo went but haven't really cared otherwise. The Juve draw being a prime example I guess, most years I'd be furious at letting in a late equaliser but I found that I didn't really care. I think it's probably caused by the same ******** as Rolfe mentioned, everyone seems to take themselves so seriously in the top flight especially and I find it very tiresome, probably explains why I've got more into the Football League and Internationals this season as people don't seem to get so angry about them as they do the PL; though I guess my relative neutrality to both (don't have a 'team' so to speak outside of League One in the FL and don't really support England) probably helps. Anyway, irrelevant and dull but I felt like venting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubos Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 That's why Alex Ferguson is amazing. Not afraid to go out and spend big money on players, and yet still bloods in youngsters and bring through a substantial number of them. Not afraid to play them in big matches either. It's like how we would rather play Paulo Ferreira than Jeffrey Bruma in centre back, whereas Ferguson would do probably do the opposite in the same situation. But that's because Ferguson knows he's there for the long term. We change managers every season so they can't do that. So unless we stop being an idiotic club, we are just going to rely on Roman throwing his money at players for us. If young players had any decency, they should stop joining us, we're just ruining their careers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 TIf young players had any decency, they should stop joining us, we're just ruining their careers. Most young players that joined you, or in the past couple of seasons Man City, are either blinded by the £ signs or a badly advised, possibly by an agent or parent blinded by the £ signs. Much more sensible to stay at your own club to get first team football or move to a side that you're likely to get game time for. It's all very well boasting about your big money move to Man City or Chelsea, but what's the point if you're not going to play? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robokid87 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 More than the football it's guaranteed financial security isn't it. £10k/week at City/Chelsea as an 18 year old may be more than you'd ever earn if you stayed at your other club and turned out to be not that good or got a serious injury. Don't know how many young footballers think like that though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 In fairness, whilst I am most certainly for the blooding of youth and would love to see more younger players/academy players make the first team (or the first team squad) at the club, or in fact, broaden it to the majority of top end clubs in the league (or even further to the whole league), there are two sides to the whole story as how many youth players are actually good enough to cut it at the level, let alone become first teamers or squad members? When you take a step back and look at it, in today's game you have to be an exceptional talent to even get a look in. If we're using Chelsea as an example, I feel that we had really strong squads (apart from the 10/11 season, arguably) - and by that I mean the strength in depth of the squads, along with the actual quality - that meant that it was incredibly hard for younger players to get a glimpse of first team action even in Carling Cup ties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted December 13, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted December 13, 2012 You have to be exceptional to start and be a key contributor. You don't have to be exceptional to contribute over the course of 60 game seasons. £5m on Oriol Romeu vs keeping Jack Cork around, that encapsulates much of it. There's also the wider point of trusting a youngster enough to give him a chance to show that he will step his game up as he steps up the levels. Tom Cleverley is a really good example of this; he was nothing special as an Under-18 and nearly didn't get his pro deal. Now he starts (when fit) for club and country and is very effective in doing so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I agree on the whole and I was pretty gutted we let Cork go as looking at the 'crisis' we've got at CM, he could well have been able to contribute now (although Romeu does have the potential to be a very good midfielder). Cleverley case more of an example of how effective the loan system can be as it was the loan spells at Watford and (more importantly) Wigan that really propelled him to where he is now as he showed whilst playing at Wigan that he could be play well enough at Premierleague leve as opposed to being chucked in the deep end and playing for United. Using that example, you'd hope the same will happen with Josh for us as he's having a successful spell at Boro and hopefully he can play a part next season amongst the first team squad or at the very least to go out on loan to a Prem club where he'll play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 More and more with every passing week. Not even exaggerating either; it genuinely annoyed me last season when a first team home game clashed with a youth game (12.45 kickoffs suck for this season) and I felt obliged to go to the first team game because I had a ST and had therefore already paid for it. Didn't renew last summer (for many reasons), problem averted. I'm still a Chelsea fan first and foremost and that'll never ever go away, and I've still gone to a good number of games this season, but it's not as important to me as it was 5 years ago say, and that's just part of me as a person changing as much as it is Chelsea.My frustrations at the lack of opportunity at Chelsea (hell, anywhere, I'd like to see every club use their academy) don't really impact my enjoyment of youth football or youth development. I learned quite a while ago to separate the two because realistically, it's never going to happen. The real enjoyment and charm I get from it is learning how and why players progress (or don't), the different techniques that go into coaching youngsters and what helps and aids them on their path to professional football. Loads of people (I can't say everyone) end up finding a niche element of their favourite pasttimes; in football that can be the social aspect of a day at football, it can be tactics, photography, anything. Mine has ended up being development of talent and it's extended across all of my major sporting interests too (which in turn helps me have even more perspectives on things). Enthusiasm has never waned; I think it continues to grow instead. A major part of it as well is the lack of ******** around the younger game. It's just football, played largely with enthusiasm and a fair amount of honest naivety even at elite development levels. No controversy, no drama. Quite appealing to me tbh. Just to make sure I am on the wavelength as you are you saying that you are losing interest in the first team due to ignoring the youth players? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted December 13, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted December 13, 2012 Nope, you've misinterpreted that post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Why did my post get deleted? You said I misinterpreted the post but did not explain why :confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyosullivan Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I'm also really interested in youth football and I guess its because Northern Ireland have a youth tournament every year called the Milk Cup, where lots of teams across the globe sides their youth sides to enter and I watch it basically every year and have seen youngsters from these teams go on and play at a good level of football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted December 14, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted December 14, 2012 Why did my post get deleted? You said I misinterpreted the post but did not explain why :confused:Nobody deleted your post? Also, it's pretty clear what I've said if you read it back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
football_master_94 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Chalobah Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Torres vs a good team is BACK...to being ****. That "boom-bust cycle" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Torres vs a good team is BACK...to being ****. That "boom-bust cycle" Indeed... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Wow, was just about to post 'what a major jinx by me again' thank you ref/linesman. *relieved* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robokid87 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Hey look at that, decent team and Torres goes to ****, what a ****ing surprise. **** off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bracken Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Maybe the worst game I've seen Torres have for us, absolutely pathetic. Moses was pretty **** too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robokid87 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Yeah Moses crap, and why was Mikel not starting? It's a final ffs pick the best team you clown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcoleman1 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Torres is just terrible. We didn't really look like we were too bothered about winning it, I really wanted us to add it to the cabinet as we haven't won it before. Still we just weren't good enough, Corinthians played well but if we had turned up we could have beaten them pretty easily tbh. At least I had a laugh watching some of the pathetic diving and rolling they were doing. Emerson for them was the worst, he was involved with the Cahill incident so I wouldn't be surprised if he dived then as well. Also the goal was so avoidable, if someone just jumps with Guerrero he isn't scoring or at least make it twice as hard. We played badly and still could have won if Torres had been able to shoot anywhere but the middle of the goal. We need a striker in Jan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Dumb to not play Mikel (unless he's injured?) since he has that ban coming up now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robokid87 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Cannot believe the subs were a change at right back and bringing off Hazard ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Also the defending for the goal was ridiculous. David Luiz was in a perfect position to attack that ball and atleast put the striker off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubos Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Hazard was terrible and pretty much invisible for almost the whole game, besides winning a free kick near the box in the first half. Moses was utter ****, and Mata was far below his usual standard. Basically the team kept giving possession away. We missed Mikel terribly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubos Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 What did Cahill get sent off for anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoolblowsme Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 It actually makes me nauseous to think how much Torres gets paid to run around and lose the ball and then miss chances that are handed to him on a plate. I truly, honest to god believe any one of us in here could play better than he does. He looks like that kid on your team who everyone knows sucks but he is the only one open so you pass him the ball out of pity, but he runs around a lot to make it seem like he is trying hard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robokid87 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Actually didn't think Hazard was that bad, seemed the most dangerous (not saying much though) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 What did Cahill get sent off for anyway? For a foul on Emerson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 It wasn't the foul, but something that happened off the ball, except we will never know because they don't seem to have replays for this tournament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skoolblowsme Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 For a foul on Emerson. Is Emerson always such a diving **** like that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamPook Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Thought the new right back did much better when he came on actually Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Is Emerson always such a diving **** like that? Yes, he was poor today (not because of his diving), but he is the kind of player that does everything to win games. He is the 4th most popular player among Brazilians, according to a survey, as people here like this kind of player. I like him too as he played for Flamengo and was great there. Very smart player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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