The 2012-2013 Manchester United Thread: Thank you, Sir Alex

[roseboy64]

I must say when you guys signed him I thought you had the most complete squad, all bases covered. Of course at the time didn't expect Hargreaves to be finished off, if someone could post that squad with ages (or any other stats), it really was great.

Goalkeepers:

1. Edwin Van Der Sar

12. Ben Foster

29. Tomasz Kusaczak

Defenders:

2. Gary Neville (captain)

3. Patrice Evra

5. Rio Ferdinand

6. Wes Brown

15. Nemanja Vidic

20. Fabio Da Silva

21. Rafael Da Silva

22. John O'Shea

23. Jonny Evans

27. Mikael Silvestre

Midfielders:

4. Owen Hargreaves

7. Cristiano Ronaldo

8. Anderson

11. Ryan Giggs (vice-captain)

13. Park Ji-Sung

14. Zoran Tosic

16. Michael Carrick

17. Nani

18. Paul Scholes

24. Darren Fletcher

28. Darron Gibson

Forwards:

9. Dimitar Berbatov

10. Wayne Rooney

19. Danny Welbeck

26. Manucho

32. Carlos Tevez

41. Federico Macheda

Too lazy to do the ages.

[Leppard]

I hadn't really skimmed, just probably misread what Dion said

I have done it loads of times in the past with Nani tbf, if only our Evertonian Red Devil would admit to doing the same.

Even if I had skimmed, after reading that, I wouldn't admit it.

[Coldberg]

Not sure how Hargreaves could ever be considered a flop. Was absolutely brilliant when he was fit. Was also amazing in Moscow. He was worth the money on that performance alone.

[Sheps.]

He also had a brilliant chant.

[McMaster#28]

And his hair.

[Deltaroad]

Hargreaves wasn't a flop. When he played he was brilliant. When Berbatov plays he brilliant in 1 on 5 games. That's the difference.

[Vince Bartram]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18922208

smokescreen? trying to swell the price for city? OR GENUINE OFFER TO BUY ROBIN VAN PERSIE OMG?

[ddidiodion]

Wouldn't say Hargreaves was brilliant, he was really good a lot of the time but he was never an integral cog in the center of midfield.

And if we sign RvP there is a good chance with our medical staff he will be dead before Christmas.

[7Bestie7]

There's nowhere for RVP to play in our system without pushing established/promising/new players out. IF there is a bid, it's going to be a lot lower than everyone else's.

Although I love how the Sun runs with the headline about not selling to us as we're rivals yet they're happy to flog to City time and time again.

[Icondacarver]

We also do not need another striker at present. We must be playing the spoiler role, City & Juve will blow us away in terms of offer.

[ham_aka_stam]

He should go to Juve. Best for RVP, best for football (RVP won't get enough game time at City), best for City (they don't need him) and best for Arsenal.

[ddidiodion]

Juve don't have the cash flow to blow anyone away at the moment, it's pretty much a 1 horse race.

[Icondacarver]

Juve don't have the cash flow to blow anyone away at the moment, it's pretty much a 1 horse race.

They blew us away for Pogba, seem to be after quite a few names and Exor seem to have found some cash lying about.

[ddidiodion]

They blew us away for Pogba, seem to be after quite a few names and Exor seem to have found some cash lying about.

I don't think cash flow was the limiting factor in the Pogba deal tbh. Paying £200k for RvP is a bit different to offering £20k a week to Pogba.

[Zaitsev]

Juve don't have the cash flow to blow anyone away at the moment, it's pretty much a 1 horse race.

Er, yes they do. They're minted. And have been saving up all summer for the one big name to replace Del Piero.

[Icondacarver]

I don't think cash flow was the limiting factor in the Pogba deal tbh. Paying £200k for RvP is a bit different to offering £20k a week to Pogba.

If Juventus have accountants which i am sure they do, then wages are relative. If Pogba at £20k fits into their financial model, then RVP can happen.

Still a 1 horse race but basically Man City >>> Juventus >>>>>>>>>>>Man Utd.

[ddidiodion]

If Juventus have accountants which i am sure they do, then wages are relative. If Pogba at £20k fits into their financial model, then RVP can happen.

Still a 1 horse race but basically Man City >>> Juventus >>>>>>>>>>>Man Utd.

Arsenal's wage struture allows them to out bid us on young players, it's not always directly relative. If you take 3/4 of them > and put them between Man City and Juventus instead of between Juventus and Man Utd you might be right.

And regardless of how "minted" Juventus are, City always have more.

[scott MUFC]

City can't offload thier players as they won't take wage cuts so RVP wont fit in there at all.

[RSB]

Sao Paulo also confirming today that we had a €35m bid for Lucas Moura knocked back. The great Glazer summer lowballing spree begins! Can the thread title be changed to 'The 2012-2013 Manchester United Thread - We Were Genuinely In For Them, Honest'?

[Icelander83]

Yes, €35m is a great example of lowballing

[RSB]

If they're not going to accept anything below €50m, then yeah, it's a terrific example if the idea is to give the impression you've got more money to splash (and the intent to do so) than you do. The higher the bid you have a reasonable level of certainty will be rejected the better. Could not have a pot to **** in and bid €100m so long as you know there's never going to be the opportunity for that cheque to bounce.

Apparently we've given up and are now in for Sahin Expect a downbeat Sir Alex to confirm our £7m bid has been rejected in the next tour presser.

[Icelander83]

So we should just wade in with €50m straight away? That's sheer lunacy. Put pressure on, see if they buckle. Especially if it's true that their cut goes down if they don't sell by the end of July.

Sure, we are probably odds on trying to look like we mean business to make excuses at the end of summer but to call that offer lowballing is nonsense

[moon_goat]

Would love to get Sahin, was one of my favourite players for a long time, and i was upset when he went to Real - he was never gonna play much, and he went for a decent price too

Although it probably won't happen anyway

[RSB]

So we should just wade in with €50m straight away? That's sheer lunacy. Put pressure on, see if they buckle. Especially if it's true that their cut goes down if they don't sell by the end of July.

Sure, we are probably odds on trying to look like we mean business to make excuses at the end of summer but to call that offer lowballing is nonsense

By all accounts it's lower than what Chelsea have already bid. How on earth do you make it that the pressure is on them that Moura's % goes up at the end of the month - they just put it on the top - the pressure's on us to meet them halfway + in that time. Clearly aren't gagging for the cash and have multiple bidders on the table. It was a token, throwaway bid for us to say that we were 'in', and now we appear to be out. Not that I'm overly bothered as there's more pressing areas of the team that require (fictional) investment

Milk Cup squad has been announced:

Pierluigi Gollini, Kieran O'Hara

Ryan McConnell, Louis Rowley, Liam Grimshaw, Nicholas Ioannou

Ben Pearson, James Weir, Joe Rothwell, Andreas Pereira, Matthew Willock, Paddy McNair, Sean Goss, Josh Harrop, Devonte Redmond

Sam Byrne, James Wilson, Ashley Fletcher

Can't find a decent answer anywhere as to what degree of coverage (if any) there is on the beeb this year - would love to see how Pearson, Rothwell and Wilson in particular get on. First match is tomorrow at 5.

Also I noticed from a piece on Brady today that the fishal site have confirmed Fryers departure.

[7Bestie7]

So according to BBC Arsenal have turned down the three bids from United, City and Juventus. I have to ask, £25m for a player in the last year of his contract who has only really played one full season in his entire Arsenal career with well known injury issues? Seriously? Am I the only one here who thinks he isn't even worth £20m given his track record/situation?

[G-Man11]

So what position does Reece Brown play? Our OS just describing him as a 'defender' and our Manager also saying he can play in midfield.

[Icelander83]

By all accounts it's lower than what Chelsea have already bid. How on earth do you make it that the pressure is on them that Moura's % goes up at the end of the month - they just put it on the top - the pressure's on us to meet them halfway + in that time. Clearly aren't gagging for the cash and have multiple bidders on the table. It was a token, throwaway bid for us to say that we were 'in', and now we appear to be out. Not that I'm overly bothered as there's more pressing areas of the team that require (fictional) investment

He's not worth €35m, never mind €50m. They'll be as aware of this as anyone else. If they don't sell him before end of July and then try and up the price after that they'll be left with nothing as they simply won't sell him. And if you think having him is worth more than the €40m they'd get from a €50m transfer then I don't think we need to take this any further

[7Bestie7]

In regards to Moura, both club and player needs to be aware of what has happened with Ganso's reputation falling as far as it has since it was him and Neymar being the "big things". Better to get 20-30m now than 10m later.

[RSB]

So what position does Reece Brown play? Our OS just describing him as a 'defender' and our Manager also saying he can play in midfield.

Center half, right back, centre mid. In that order probably.

He's not worth €35m, never mind €50m. They'll be as aware of this as anyone else. If they don't sell him before end of July and then try and up the price after that they'll be left with nothing as they simply won't sell him. And if you think having him is worth more than the €40m they'd get from a €50m transfer then I don't think we need to take this any further

I think they've got multiple bidders flush with cash and he's about to play at a widely covered international tournament he's been tipped to star at. They evidently value him at higher than the €35/40m they've knocked back already - what I value at him is irrelevant. Oscar seems to be perceived as being in the next bracket down and by all accounts has gone for some £4m less than our bid. Not sure how much the marketing revolution in Brazil would make him more valuable (relatively speaking) to them if they kept him on and developed him as one of the best players in the league and ultimately for the national team, as Santos have with Neymar. Particularly with the World Cup on the way.

In regards to Moura, both club and player needs to be aware of what has happened with Ganso's reputation falling as far as it has since it was him and Neymar being the "big things". Better to get 20-30m now than 10m later.

Ganso's been linked with a €60m move to PSG. Reckon Neymar is a better comparison as an example of a top Brazilian player whose club is willing to turn down big money for with the new TV deal and the World Cup on the way.

[Icondacarver]

So we should just wade in with €50m straight away? That's sheer lunacy. Put pressure on, see if they buckle. Especially if it's true that their cut goes down if they don't sell by the end of July.

Sure, we are probably odds on trying to look like we mean business to make excuses at the end of summer but to call that offer lowballing is nonsense

Your logic would be right if we had the euro figure being bandied about. We do not have much to spend and bearing in mind that we also put an offer in for Van Persie, we are definitely just bidding on players for publicity purposes rather than actually wanting or being able to afford them.

[Icelander83]

Your logic would be right if we had the euro figure being bandied about. We do not have much to spend and bearing in mind that we also put an offer in for Van Persie, we are definitely just bidding on players for publicity purposes rather than actually wanting or being able to afford them.

My logic holds up whether we have 10p or 10 billion in the bank. There's not a chance in hell City/Madrid/whoever go to them and say "here's a blank check, write what you want on it". They'll go in with offers a lot lower than the insane valuation the club puts on the player

[RSB]

Yes, but there's a difference between a club's insane valuation and an acceptable amount. Particularly after higher bids have been rejected.

[Icondacarver]

My logic holds up whether we have 10p or 10 billion in the bank. There's not a chance in hell City/Madrid/whoever go to them and say "here's a blank check, write what you want on it". They'll go in with offers a lot lower than the insane valuation the club puts on the player

No your logic applies to only those with the money, Real / City etc go in with a lower offer first to induce pressure etc (Lowballing).

A team with NO money goes in low to ensure that the bid is not accepted, but at least they can "claim" they made an attempt hence why RSB said lowballing.

I never said anyone goes in with a high or exact amount, i am just saying that we are definitely "faux lowballing" because we will never follow it up with a better bid when the low one fails.

As RSB said, we went in with a bid that was lower than others already rejected.

[7Bestie7]

Ganso's been linked with a €60m move to PSG. Reckon Neymar is a better comparison as an example of a top Brazilian player whose club is willing to turn down big money for with the new TV deal and the World Cup on the way.

Yes, but PSG are idiots. Ganso's reputation has seriously dipped over the last 6-12months because of form and injury with Neymar being cemented as Santos' #1 star. You can't use anything PSG are doing as an argument for someone's reputation, they're worse than City and the old Madrid teams combined.

[jonahno6]

Fergie has COMFIRMED we want RVP. Actually really shocked by that. (not that I believe we'll get him)

[roseboy64]

Ferguson: [AFC] have given it out we've made a bid for van Persie. We've tried to keep it as close to a moment that we could conclude a deal.

[SJ234]

How much do you reckon you could bid for him?

[roseboy64]

"Obviously Arsenal have given out the fact that we've made a bid for him," the manager told MUTV.

"We try to keep business as close as possible to us until the moment we conclude a deal. There's no point talking about something that might not happen.

"There are other clubs interested in the player. We've shown an interest and that's where we're at at the moment."

[Rb]

Can't understand why he has come out on this one when he didn't have to. He either really wants him or is using it as a smokescreen for something else. Strange.

I can only think we're using it to force another big players hand into pushing forward and signing him. Freeing us up to sign our genuine target.

[SJ234]

Is this not enough for you to think you're genuinely interested? Or at least could be

[SJ234]

Not for me no, not unless we are selling Rooney. Why else would we want RVP AND Lucas Moura? Something isn't normal with it all.

Tbh the Moura thing was a bit odd to me seemed a bit pricey. Both seem a bit expensive but at least Moura has the potential. They play in different positions so the smokescreen doesn't quite fit.

RVP is just like Rooney which is what makes it nuts. I expect he'll go to City as they'll be the first to jump over £20mill

[Icondacarver]

I think this has to do with 2 things, 1) A smokescreen while we chase our Glazernomic option and 2) We have an IPO launching in weeks, nothing helps a share issue like looking as though you have cash to spend (not that we will ACTUALLY spend it).

A lot of the people investing will not know much about the club, they will only know the brand and have heard about it a lot. They will first research all the financial information they can find, but the final piece is the kind of news that stands out when they google the name.

Seeing the club linked with multi-million pound signings will make a potential American investor confident that the club has money to spend. "That Manchester Soccer franchise seems to be involved in a lot of high profile trades, they might just win the Premier League Superbowl" :o

[Icondacarver]

Is this not enough for you to think you're genuinely interested? Or at least could be

We are just doing our usual "we made a bid but failed as we were trumped by silly money" routine. We have been doing it for a while and this summers Van Persie was last summers Nasri, who in turn was the summer befores Ozil who was preceeded by the summer of Benzema.

[7Bestie7]

Obviously a bid has been made so now the question is what's the idea behind it, especially if you consider all the reports about how much we're trying to get Moura and yet the club hasn't confirmed that one at all. So it's either a smokescreen, one of our main strikers (Hernandez, Rooney or Welbeck) are leaving or the plan is to put someone on the left wing and alternate Valencia/Nani on the right with van Persie on the left covered by Young.

[McMaster#28]

Are you still after Modric too?

[Leppard]

Apparently we've given up and are now in for Sahin Expect a downbeat Sir Alex to confirm our £7m bid has been rejected in the next tour presser.

Sahin, eh? I suppose you'll be going for Lewandowski, Hummels, and/or Götze next.

Will be quite surprised if one of RVP or Lucas Moura actually end up at OT.

[Bren24]

It's possible we make Rooney play even deeper, permanently. Central Midfield. Could be seen as plugging a gap, and buying RvP (proven goalscorer) for £20m is cheaper than signing Moura.

I can't decide on what my stance would be there, but there is no hiding the fact RvP is a fine striker and probably still has 4-5 years left in him.

I'll just see where we end up by the start of the season and not contribute to all this conspiracy about us smoke screening everyone. Boring.

[RSB]

Yes, but PSG are idiots. Ganso's reputation has seriously dipped over the last 6-12months because of form and injury with Neymar being cemented as Santos' #1 star. You can't use anything PSG are doing as an argument for someone's reputation, they're worse than City and the old Madrid teams combined.

Don't disagree as to the sanity of PSG, but we're talking about market rates, and PSG have (further) distorted the market, so it's valid. The 'reputation' of a player or how much they 'should' be worth, both being highly subjective at any rate, are irrelevant in context of what a club will be willing to pay for them, which in itself determines how much a club can expect to get for them. Just as Icelander doesn't rate Moura as being worth €35m, there are at least three top clubs who value him around that level; just as if PSG are willing to spend €60m on Ganso, then Santos aren't mugs for not taking €20m earlier as you suggested.

Clean forgot about the IPO factor. Little doubt that RvP and Moura are the 2012 incarnation of Benzema/Ozil/Villa/Sneijder/Nasri - the IPO just yet another reason to try and look Billy Big Wallets.

[SJ234]

We are just doing our usual "we made a bid but failed as we were trumped by silly money" routine. We have been doing it for a while and this summers Van Persie was last summers Nasri, who in turn was the summer befores Ozil who was preceeded by the summer of Benzema.

We are quite good at that. Mata, Ozil, Cazorla amongst others

I think your bid being the only one properly rejected says it all about our stance towards you signing him and the size of it

[7Bestie7]

Don't disagree as to the sanity of PSG, but we're talking about market rates, and PSG have (further) distorted the market, so it's valid. The 'reputation' of a player or how much they 'should' be worth, both being highly subjective at any rate, are irrelevant in context of what a club will be willing to pay for them, which in itself determines how much a club can expect to get for them. Just as Icelander doesn't rate Moura as being worth €35m, there are at least three top clubs who value him around that level; just as if PSG are willing to spend €60m on Ganso, then Santos aren't mugs for not taking €20m earlier as you suggested.

Clean forgot about the IPO factor. Little doubt that RvP and Moura are the 2012 incarnation of Benzema/Ozil/Villa/Sneijder/Nasri - the IPO just yet another reason to try and look Billy Big Wallets.

I have to disagree about PSG distorting the market. I actually think everyone is treating them like a novelty, charging far more just for them than they are for other clubs. Of course if they really are in for Ganso then he'll go for a huge amount and Santos are going to be happy but they won't be getting a massive fee from any of the bigger clubs for him considering how he has been lately and if that happens then Santos need to count their lucky stars as well as the bills because they really dodged a financial bullet.