Neil Brock

Football Manager 12.1.1 update *OFFICIAL* Feedback Thread

1,369 posts in this topic

I think we are gonna have this kind of discussion everytime SI release a new patch!

@James9: SI and Steam dont force the update on you! If you change your default setting in your steam acount, then you only update the game when you want! Actually... the exact same way with the windows default setting, and i think with almost every piece of software around the world!

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[quote name='Keyzer Soze']I think we are gonna have this kind of discussion everytime SI release a new patch!

@James9: SI and Steam dont force the update on you! If you change your default setting in your steam acount, then you only update the game when you want! Actually... the exact same way with the windows default setting, and i think with almost every piece of software around the world![/QUOTE]

You are right they didnot force the update on me it was my choice to update. But it does that mean that i loose my right to decide if i want the changes are not. Why did they not give you a warning stating that when you patch you cannot go back. If they made that clear then many would not download the patch if they knew the risk and implications. SI are telling me accept the changes and there is nothing I can do because they do not care anymore about customers and they own the game rights. This is not fair and I will keep on saying it. SI can choose to ban me from this forum because I will keep going until they answer my questions

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[quote name='milnerpoint']Its not your game! You buy a license to use software, you do not own the game or anything about the game, you own a license to use SI software, nothing more.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry I do not agree with you. It was my money that bought the game. I own the right to decide if I am not happy about something in the game. So if I choose to go back to a previous patch that is my right and not SI. They have no rights to decide how I play the game

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Actually, they said that a long time ago.
SI and Steam stated that when you update the game via steam (and this year steam is the only way to do that), you must always update with the last version available.
So i would think that would be very clear to everyone that, when you update the game, there is no way to go back.

What you may argue is, the old system was better. Last year we could apply a patch, test it, and if we didn't like it, we could uninstall the game, and install it again with the patch that we choose. (for example last year there were 3 patches, but many people decided that patch 11.2 after testing patch 11.3)

This year we dont have this choice, because SI... the owner of the game... decided like this! It's their right!

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doesnt matter if you agree with me or not, thats the way it is, you dont own FM, you own a license to play FM, that is all.

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I do not know if it's been mentioned, but I have a much bigger issue when it comes to employe the staff than I had prior to 12.1.0. Previously I could have up to four coaches, in addition to the GK Coach, Fitness Coach, and Ass Manager, for a team in the Championship. After 12.1.0, I cant have more then two coaches, and it's pointless to ask the Board for more.

Is there have been some changes in relation to this with 12.1.0?

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Was there a change to the ME? Couldn't see it when I was looking through the changelist. All three of my tactics have stopped working after the update and they were bloody brilliant before it. Might just be a coinsidense but i've hardly been able to score since the update, my strikers, central defenders and fullbacks have all, and I mean ALL (key players, first team, rotation, backup, youth) been averaging around 6.0 now but were all averaging between 6.9-7.6 before the patch (most in the range of 7.3-7.5). Is this just a coinsidense or do I need to make new tactics, or is this maybe because of the change to the moral settings or what is going on???

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[quote name='jascko']I do not know if it's been mentioned, but I have a much bigger issue when it comes to employe the staff than I had prior to 12.1.0. Previously I could have up to four coaches, in addition to the GK Coach, Fitness Coach, and Ass Manager, for a team in the Championship. After 12.1.0, I cant have more then two coaches, and it's pointless to ask the Board for more.

Is there have been some changes in relation to this with 12.1.0?[/QUOTE]

I know they made a change so that you have to stick with the build of coaches the board gives you. That is if the Board allows 2 coaches, 2 First team coaches, 2 Youth Coaches and so forth you can't change that. So even if you only have 1 youth coach you can't sign 3 First team coaches. The max there is still 2. :P Bummer, I know.

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I think that prior to patch 12.1, you could have as much staff as the total.
for example, yur board allow 4 coaches, 3 first team coaches and 3 youth coaches.
In the previous patch you could contract 10 coaches, but with this patch you can only contract 4 coaches. If you want more you must decide if you are gonna contract them as first team coaches or youth coaches.

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[quote name='Keyzer Soze']I think we are gonna have this kind of discussion everytime SI release a new patch!

@James9: SI and [B]Steam dont force the update on you! If you change your default setting in your steam acount, then you only update the game when you want! [/B]Actually... the exact same way with the windows default setting, and i think with almost every piece of software around the world![/QUOTE]

Incorrect, for me anyway. I have set to "do not auto update" on various games including the last three Total War games and FM12. Only to find that Steam decided to change that setting so it forces me to update.

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[quote name='aiston']Incorrect, for me anyway. I have set to "do not auto update" on various games including the last three Total War games and FM12. Only to find that Steam decided to change that setting so it forces me to update.[/QUOTE]

I trust you've added your complaint to the thread in the Steam forums? If this happens it's a bug and they need nagging about it.

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[quote name='Stefanius']I know they made a change so that you have to stick with the build of coaches the board gives you. That is if the Board allows 2 coaches, 2 First team coaches, 2 Youth Coaches and so forth you can't change that. So even if you only have 1 youth coach you can't sign 3 First team coaches. The max there is still 2. :P Bummer, I know.[/QUOTE]

Hm, strange. Before I took over Derby they had 4 youth coaches, 2 coaches, 1 fitness coach, 1 ass manager, and 1 gk coach. Having fired all together, they let me now no more than 2 coaches, 1 gk coach, 1 fitness coach, and ass manager. In addition to that I get no more than 1 scout, in contrast to 2 which was at the club before I took over. What is the reason for this irrational change?

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[quote name='Keyzer Soze']Actually, they said that a long time ago.
SI and Steam stated that when you update the game via steam (and this year steam is the only way to do that), you must always update with the last version available.
So i would think that would be very clear to everyone that, when you update the game, there is no way to go back.

What you may argue is, the old system was better. Last year we could apply a patch, test it, and if we didn't like it, we could uninstall the game, and install it again with the patch that we choose. (for example last year there were 3 patches, but many people decided that patch 11.2 after testing patch 11.3)

This year we dont have this choice, because SI... the owner of the game... decided like this! It's their right![/QUOTE]

That is the problem they go and change something that was not broken they gave us the choice in last year's game but now they decide that they want to let the customers down. I am not disagreeing that it is their game and they own licence and whatever else they claim to own about the game. What I am disagreeing is they have no right to tell us that we have to play the game how they want us to play it. If I do not like something I should retain the right to change. If I go out to eat and order a steak and it comes to my table uncooked then I send it back and ask for it the way I like the chef does not tell me that I have to accept it. It is simple customers have the right to choose and SI have taken that away

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AI teams often have more coaches then the board allows, so what they had when you took over might not be what you can get when you start hiring new once. If you go to the boardroom you will see how many of which they allow you.

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[quote name='Keyzer Soze']Actually, they said that a long time ago.
SI and Steam stated that when you update the game via steam (and this year steam is the only way to do that), you must always update with the last version available.
So i would think that would be very clear to everyone that, when you update the game, there is no way to go back.

What you may argue is, the old system was better. Last year we could apply a patch, test it, and if we didn't like it, we could uninstall the game, and install it again with the patch that we choose. (for example last year there were 3 patches, but many people decided that patch 11.2 after testing patch 11.3)

This year we dont have this choice, because SI... the owner of the game... decided like this! It's their right![/QUOTE]

It still does tell you the risk. If they made clear that if you update the new patch you are not allowed to go back then that would be better than telling us afterwards when we have already update the patch

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[quote name='Kriss']I trust you've added your complaint to the thread in the Steam forums? If this happens it's a bug and they need nagging about it.[/QUOTE]

Did awhile ago, didn't get a reply for 3 weeks. So give up with Steam forums. Will try find out my pw again and give it another shot though.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']doesnt matter if you agree with me or not, thats the way it is, you dont own FM, you own a license to play FM, that is all.[/QUOTE]

You have stated that it doesnot matter if I agree with you are not. So that gives me the right to choose what I agree with. so why should i have to accept that SI can now take the right away from me to choose how I play the game

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I've not played FM 12, so I can't comment on the various patches specifically. But the idea that you can't pick and choose which patch to play on is ridiculous. If SI are going to continue along with this steam thing, then I really think they should offer a way to manually 'rollback' to which patch you want to play on.

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[quote name='aiston']Did awhile ago, didn't get a reply for 3 weeks. So give up with Steam forums. Will try find out my pw again and give it another shot though.[/QUOTE]

I've had a dig as well although it hasn't happened to me, there's definitely something out of kilter, don't give up though, I've found they're pretty good at addressing problems but a bit slow as you say.

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you've mistaken me, im not dismissing your point because it does not agree with mine, im stating what happens when you buy a PC game, you do not own the game, you own a license for the game, nothing more im afraid. You have no real rights over the software, you play with what SI decide, it is their game, they own everything about it, and can change exactly what they want, when they want, thankfully SI are good to us, unlike a lot of software companies.

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[quote name='Kriss']SI are just the latest in a long line of developers to adopt this model, if you want optional patches you need to make that known on the Steam forums because it's their system that prevents it.[/QUOTE]

As you said SI adopted this model, they also make the game that you pay for, so they are the people to approach if you want optional patches.

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[quote name='Stefanius']AI teams often have more coaches then the board allows, so what they had when you took over might not be what you can get when you start hiring new once. If you go to the boardroom you will see how many of which they allow you.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I notice that. I dont know if you have experienced after 12.1.0 but many of the staff that I m trying to sign pull them self out of the contract after the agreement. What is that all about?

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[quote name='James9']You have stated that it doesnot matter if I agree with you are not. So that gives me the right to choose what I agree with. so why should i have to accept that SI can now take the right away from me to choose how I play the game[/QUOTE]

You need to accept it because that's the way it now is, only the most recent version is avaialble.
If you want the option to revert to older versions you'll need to take it up with Steam, unfortunately most of their 30 million plus users don't so I doubt you'll have much luck.

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[quote name='pigfacemonkeyman']As you said SI adopted this model, they also make the game that you pay for, so they are the people to approach if you want optional patches.[/QUOTE]

Nope, they signed up to the Steam methodology, one reason being they'll only have to support one version, it's that methodology which makes rolling back impossible so Steam are the people to approach.
That's not to say that SI can't support a request for such a feature but somehow I doubt they will.

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I would imagine everyone working off 1 version and one delivery method makes their lives much easier when it comes to finding problems in the game.

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[quote name='Stefanius']Was there a change to the ME? Couldn't see it when I was looking through the changelist. All three of my tactics have stopped working after the update and they were bloody brilliant before it. Might just be a coinsidense but i've hardly been able to score since the update, my strikers, central defenders and fullbacks have all, and I mean ALL (key players, first team, rotation, backup, youth) been averaging around 6.0 now but were all averaging between 6.9-7.6 before the patch (most in the range of 7.3-7.5). Is this just a coinsidense or do I need to make new tactics, or is this maybe because of the change to the moral settings or what is going on???[/QUOTE]

Am I not going to get a respond to this? Just want to know what is going on and how I should react. This happend immediately after the update, which is why I'm connecting this issue with the update. Like I said, it might just be a coincidense and the moral is just dropping, or that I just need 7 points to secure win in the league and the players aren't handeling the pressure. So I'm just looking for an answer to the first question. Was there a change to the ME that might explain all my tactics stopped working or is this due to moral and or pressure?

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[quote name='Stefanius']Am I not going to get a respond to this? Just want to know what is going on and how I should react. This happend immediately after the update, which is why I'm connecting this issue with the update. Like I said, it might just be a coincidense and the moral is just dropping, or that I just need 7 points to secure win in the league and the players aren't handeling the pressure. So I'm just looking for an answer to the first question. Was there a change to the ME that might explain all my tactics stopped working or is this due to moral and or pressure?[/QUOTE]

The changes to the morale system made my friend's tactic obsolete immidiately. My tactic which was very similar worked fine, no changes to the performances or the style of play. So I proposed upping the Closing Down instructions from 16-17 to 20 on all the midfielders and forwards (just like they are in my tactic) and problem was solved equally quick.

Most likely, his tactic with Napoli thrived on superb morale to such a degree that even though he pushed up high there was no need to tell them to put pressure on the opposition defense as they did so more than enough just by being fired up. When the eternal state of superb-morale-induced semi-godhood dissipated, the tactic fell apart.

The AI is also better at defending themselves now.

So yes, you either need to tweak the tactic or build a new one from scratch.

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[quote name='BiggusD']The changes to the morale system made my friend's tactic obsolete immidiately. My tactic which was very similar worked fine, no changes to the performances or the style of play. So I proposed upping the Closing Down instructions from 16-17 to 20 on all the midfielders and forwards (just like they are in my tactic) and problem was solved equally quick.

Most likely, his tactic with Napoli thrived on superb morale to such a degree that even though he pushed up high there was no need to tell them to put pressure on the opposition defense as they did so more than enough just by being fired up. When the eternal state of superb-morale-induced semi-godhood dissipated, the tactic fell apart.

The AI is also better at defending themselves now.

So yes, you either need to tweak the tactic or build a new one from scratch.[/QUOTE]

Alright, thanks for the response. I will look into tweeking the tactics then, although I am a bit wary of doing that right now, as there are four games left off the season and I need 6 points to secure a victory. Might have to do it though as I had 8 games left before the update and was unbeaten in the league and had a 15 point lead. :S

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How can I uninstall the 12.1 patch please ?
I would like to continue playing with the 12.04 version.

I installed the last patch because I hoped the transfer system would have been improved but I don't notice any difference.

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it seems that the new patch has done more harm than good and this isn't me saying that because it has got harder but there are several issues being discussed which shouldn't happen on the release of an update to make the game better!!

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[quote name='milnerpoint']you cannot unfortunately.[/QUOTE]

I have the boxed CD version so I gues I can install the game without any patches from the CD right ?

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Again no you cannot, you will have to activate the game through Steam, as soon as you do this it will update the game to the newest version. There is no way for you to go back to the previous version of the game now you have updated.

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[quote name='jimmyt86']it seems that the new patch has done more harm than good and this isn't me saying that because it has got harder but there are several issues being discussed which shouldn't happen on the release of an update to make the game better!![/QUOTE]

Have you never been on the GD on a patch/game release week? Its the exact same every time, not everyone likes the changes, they spam 30 threads with the same stuff over and over and it eventually dies down, just in time for SI to release another change and we start all over again.

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[quote name='milnerpoint']Have you never been on the GD on a patch/game release week? Its the exact same every time, not everyone likes the changes, [B]they spam 30 threads with the same stuff over and over [/B]and it eventually dies down, just in time for SI to release another change and we start all over again.[/QUOTE]

With a little help from your good self, and cohorts. ;)

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pigfacemonkeyman - Enough of the trolling it's getting tiresome,

Thanks.

If you have nothing constructive to post then I suggest not posting as you are just going to get yourself into trouble.

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[quote name='Kravitz']I have the boxed CD version so I gues I can install the game without any patches from the CD right ?[/QUOTE]
Nope, once your authenticate the game via Steam it will automatically update it to the latest version.

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I hope you are happy SI you have taken away our rights to decide what version of the game we play and you cannot give a valid reason why you have done this. I have spent my money with others and now we are being told that it is your game, your product nd you can do what you like. I might as well give you my bank details so that you can steal my money because that is what you have done with this new patch. You are denying my right to choose because you have more power than the little customer and know one can touch you because we are small and you guys are the corporate power. Everyone should have the right to decide it feels like Miles and SI are dictators

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James. If they had taken money for the patch, then you would've had a point but they don't.
The only right you have is basically to play the game the way SI intended it to.
Not having a go at you, mate. I'm just saying.

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[quote name='James9']You are right they didnot force the update on me it was my choice to update. But it does that mean that i loose my right to decide if i want the changes are not. Why did they not give you a warning stating that when you patch you cannot go back. If they made that clear then many would not download the patch if they knew the risk and implications. SI are telling me accept the changes and there is nothing I can do because they do not care anymore about customers and they own the game rights. This is not fair and I will keep on saying it. SI can choose to ban me from this forum because I will keep going until they answer my questions[/QUOTE]

Your problem is with Steam, not SI.

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[quote name='Stefanius']Am I not going to get a respond to this? Just want to know what is going on and how I should react. This happend immediately after the update, which is why I'm connecting this issue with the update. Like I said, it might just be a coincidense and the moral is just dropping, or that I just need 7 points to secure win in the league and the players aren't handeling the pressure. So I'm just looking for an answer to the first question. Was there a change to the ME that might explain all my tactics stopped working or is this due to moral and or pressure?[/QUOTE]

There were some minor changes, which would affect you if you were heavily relying on set pieces to score. Accuracy of delivery has been reduced and AI teams have better instructions, which levels the playing field. To check, look at your goals / shot ratio is the stats screen. If it is lower than 1 goal in 7 shots, it is likely you were overachieving at set pieces. To double check, see if any of your defenders has scored 10 pus goals. If you see both, then you were probably doing well largely through set piece dominance, which might mean you now have to rethink your tactical approach.

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[quote name='wwfan']There were some minor changes, which would affect you if you were heavily relying on set pieces to score. Accuracy of delivery has been reduced and AI teams have better instructions, which levels the playing field. To check, look at your goals / shot ratio is the stats screen. If it is lower than 1 goal in 7 shots, it is likely you were overachieving at set pieces. To double check, see if any of your defenders has scored 10 pus goals. If you see both, then you were probably doing well largely through set piece dominance, which might mean you now have to rethink your tactical approach.[/QUOTE]

actually it has led to Villa not being able to sign scouts and youth coaches!!

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[quote name='Neil Brock']I'm sorry but you're not in a position to know what we do and how we do it, judging from your comments you are not familiar with how our coding team, how Sports Interactive or I would suggest any computer games company works. We really should not be encouraging hacking of our products - anyone that does so is actually in breach of the licensing agreement.

It's so vastly different between 'not announcing a feature' which is coded into the game, and something else which has to be hacked to become operational. We can't spend time adding 'warnings' and other such things to something which I'm afraid we have never wanted to, nor ever have supported. It was not created for outside use and should not be used as such.

All the things you suggest we do to support the advanced editor (something which we've made clear we don't want to do) such as adding a warning message or marking it as dirty, would take up valuable coding time which could be used on other areas of the game. I'm sorry, the final word on this we've made our decision regarding the advanced editor and that, as said, is final.[/QUOTE]

I can understand your point about the advanced rules, Neil. I don't agree with them, but that is another discussion. The thing that makes me wonder then is why ain't the basic editor made with more features. As it is now you can't create half the real life comps that exists. The thing is that the basic editor ain't good enough as it is now, and you really should up your work improving it. If it is so that you really won't to make the users happy, well then it is about time the basic editor is improved with a dozen times..

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Hasn't been mentioned but I'd be surprised if they do one before the January window ends, so yeh Feb/March is a fairly safe bet.

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[quote name='Aytumious']Your problem is with Steam, not SI.[/QUOTE]

His problem is taking something he [b]wants[/b] and calling it a 'right'.

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Just noticed I'm able to ask for a parent team with SPURS??? I've got continental reputation and won the league 3 times on the trott and Champs League last season, surely a bug

I was never ever able to that before as reputation wise we're second behind Man Utd in England and in the top 10 worldwide - befpre the patch it was always greyed out and said 'We're already in the top division' assuming that it's against the rules to have a parent club in the Premier League

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