The Barcelona Style: My Interpretation

[weiguo]

Hi all,

All these years have been lurking in tactics forum to learn. Found a tweaked version of WWfan's tactic very good for FM2015, so decided to register to share it here.

I have tried this tactic with Chelsea and Man Utd and it have worked very good. The attack is stable, player movement is excellent. Sadly the possession % will never reach Fm2013 standards.

The tactic is similar to Wwfan's interpretation in a 4-1-2-3 Wide Formation. Counter / Flexible

1. Sweeper Goalkeeper / Support - PI Distribute to fullback

Pretty standard, not much to comment on. Both De Gea and Courtois are very good in this role.

2. Wing Back Right / Attack

As stated by Wwfan, wingback is the most important position of this tactic to work. They will bomb up the flanks, provide width when the inside forward cuts inside. Antonio Valencia does well in this role for Man Utd, didn't have much chance to use Rafael because he was always injured. Azpilicueta is deadly in this role for my Chelsea save with his long throws providing one extra option for the attack.

3. Wing Back Left / Attack

Similar to the right wing back, very important to this system. At Man Utd, bought Baines on huge contract to tempt him to part with euro cup football to play for me. Baines's corner and set piece abilities is a bonus point. Baines also provide accurate crosses for the False Nine.

5/6. Central Defender / Defend

Used both defenders on Defend due to stupid goals being conceded while on one cover and one stopper duties. Also given how easy through balls split my defense, I chose to play with an offside trap, which would require both defender to be on the same line.

4. Defensive Midfielder / Defend

This role always does not get good rating, but it is very important in keeping goals conceded lower. Previous post have suggested that the new role in Fm2014 - Half Back should be used. I have tried half back, but he does not do anything significant enough for my tactic to work. The defensive midfielder works like a charm. One good ppm i gave the defensive midfielder is "stay back at all times". This ppm is what Busquets is having and while my central defenders push up on the counter, the DM will stand as the last line to head any long ball away. Fellaini / Blind / Matic does this job well. Chose Fellaini against teams with height or play the long ball-target man tactic, he is colossus in the air.

8. Deep Lying Playermaker / Support

The Xavi role. Nothing much else to say =D Carrick is the best player in Man Utd to play in this role. Need to find a replacement for him fast, but it is a big headache when all similar players are so old aka Alonso / Xavi / Pirlo. Usually gets 110+ pass in a game.

10. Advanced Playermaker / Attack

The Iniesta Role, the one that connects the attack. In Fm2015, this role is not very good or outstanding. He gets into the same space as the inside forward and false nine. If i change him to Support role, my attack loses its bite. Can't think of any other role that will do well here too. Herrara scores alot of edge of the pen box shots from this role.

7/11. Inside Forward / Attack

This goal threat in this formation, as mentioned in here, this year the inside forward cuts in very early, and will go to the other wing as if exchange position is selected. It is important to get 2 footed inside forward, and put the stronger left footed on the right, and the stronger right footed on the left. At Man Utd, used Di Maria on the right and Januzaj on the left. Januzaj performs better than Di Maria as an inside forward. Juan Mata is a temporary substitute for both. Ashley Young can be unleashed against weak opponent, he will turn into a cristiano ronaldo imposer suddenly. One of the best inside forward in this game is actually Hazard. In my Chelsea save, Hazard got almost a goal a game and tons of assist. Will buy him for Man Utd in the second season too.

9. False Nine / Support

With counter mentality, he stays very close to midfield, no one does it as good as Rooney. Gets a lot of arrive late in the box goals. Still shoots too many long shot, but long shots are easy to go into the net in this FM. No one will ever replicate Messi though.

Team Instructions:

Shorter Passing - Clear Cut

Pass into space - For turning a boring pass game into one with many CCCs and Half Chances

Work Ball Into Box - Prevent long unnecessary pass

Push Higher Up - Keep opponent space tight and load players forward to break on the counter. I believe it is the key that will trigger the counter attack with many players in the opposition half when you take the ball away from the opposition.

Close down more - Its a barca thing.

Stay on feet - To launch counter attack immediately.

Use offside trap - To prevent through ball goals I concede

Be more disciplined - It allows my team to play real counter attack after regaining the ball, tried ticking be more expressive, and it does not work as the passing in the final third is horrible. Better listen to the manager in me than let those young millionaire decide.

Tweaks from original version:

No Roaming - Don't make sense for roaming now

No Retain Possession - I think this TI is not meant to retain possession in the Barcelona way, but for teams to slack off in the final 20 mins and play a safe game.

Be more disciplined - As above

Use Offside Trap - Improve leaky defence

No Cover/Stopper DC

New role - False Nine

Overall:

Pass per game is around 500-600, possession is 56 - 65%. Lots of CCCs, lots of Half Chance

Screenie below:

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Hi all,

All these years have been lurking in tactics forum to learn. Found a tweaked version of WWfan's tactic very good for FM2015, so decided to register to share it here.

I have tried this tactic with Chelsea and Man Utd and it have worked very good. The attack is stable, player movement is excellent. Sadly the possession % will never reach Fm2013 standards.

]

Looks interesting, the main one being the removal of 'retain possession'.

I don't think Roam from position is doing much in 15 either. Some very good results there, but its not unlike what I originally posted a few topics up above - results and possession wise. Is that to be expected? I would have thought there would be a bit more disparity hmm.

[weiguo]

Looks interesting, the main one being the removal of 'retain possession'.

I don't think Roam from position is doing much in 15 either. Some very good results there, but its not unlike what I originally posted a few topics up above - results and possession wise. Is that to be expected? I would have thought there would be a bit more disparity hmm.

I left that part out, I didn't tick roam from position as it is very redundant. Without roam from position my IFs are out wide to receive that counter attack pass, and also when my DLP / AP switch the side of play. With roam they are all over the place. What I noticed is that AI is more intelligent now, it is harder to achieve 70+% possession like previous FM. It takes out alot of fun about the possession tactics.

However I would like to suggest another benchmark to measure the success of this tactic for us to enjoy the game. It is looking at the number of CCCs and Half Chances and to increase it to as many as possible. And also when comparing to opponent CCCs and Half Chance against you, and by ensuring it to be as low as possible. Seeing very high CCCs like my game against Man city where I had 7 CCCs and 8 Half Chance sent me high without alcohol. One thing to note is that Barcelona tiki taka is famed for its short passing and change of tempo to suddenly create that scoring chance, or passing until the opponent is drag out of position for that scoring chance.

[weiguo]

Hi all,

Not sure where my original post went to.

I have tried this tactic with Chelsea and Man Utd and it have worked very good. The attack is stable, player movement is excellent. Sadly the possession % will never reach Fm2013 standards.

The tactic is similar to Wwfan's interpretation in a 4-1-2-3 Wide Formation. Counter / Flexible

1. Sweeper Goalkeeper / Support - PI Distribute to fullback

Pretty standard, not much to comment on. Both De Gea and Courtois are very good in this role.

2. Wing Back Right / Attack

As stated by Wwfan, wingback is the most important position of this tactic to work. They will bomb up the flanks, provide width when the inside forward cuts inside. Antonio Valencia does well in this role for Man Utd, didn't have much chance to use Rafael because he was always injured. Azpilicueta is deadly in this role for my Chelsea save with his long throws providing one extra option for the attack.

3. Wing Back Left / Attack

Similar to the right wing back, very important to this system. At Man Utd, bought Baines on huge contract to tempt him to part with euro cup football to play for me. Baines's corner and set piece abilities is a bonus point. Baines also provide accurate crosses for the False Nine.

5/6. Central Defender / Defend

Used both defenders on Defend due to stupid goals being conceded while on one cover and one stopper duties. Also given how easy through balls split my defense, I chose to play with an offside trap, which would require both defender to be on the same line.

4. Defensive Midfielder / Defend

This role always does not get good rating, but it is very important in keeping goals conceded lower. Previous post have suggested that the new role in Fm2014 - Half Back should be used. I have tried half back, but he does not do anything significant enough for my tactic to work. The defensive midfielder works like a charm. One good ppm i gave the defensive midfielder is "stay back at all times". This ppm is what Busquets is having and while my central defenders push up on the counter, the DM will stand as the last line to head any long ball away. Fellaini / Blind / Matic does this job well. Chose Fellaini against teams with height or play the long ball-target man tactic, he is colossus in the air.

8. Deep Lying Playermaker / Support

The Xavi role. Nothing much else to say =D Carrick is the best player in Man Utd to play in this role. Need to find a replacement for him fast, but it is a big headache when all similar players are so old aka Alonso / Xavi / Pirlo. Usually gets 110+ pass in a game.

10. Advanced Playermaker / Attack

The Iniesta Role, the one that connects the attack. In Fm2015, this role is not very good or outstanding. He gets into the same space as the inside forward and false nine. If i change him to Support role, my attack loses its bite. Can't think of any other role that will do well here too. Herrara scores alot of edge of the pen box shots from this role.

7/11. Inside Forward / Attack

This goal threat in this formation, as mentioned in here, this year the inside forward cuts in very early, and will go to the other wing as if exchange position is selected. It is important to get 2 footed inside forward, and put the stronger left footed on the right, and the stronger right footed on the left. At Man Utd, used Di Maria on the right and Januzaj on the left. Januzaj performs better than Di Maria as an inside forward. Juan Mata is a temporary substitute for both. Ashley Young can be unleashed against weak opponent, he will turn into a cristiano ronaldo imposer suddenly. One of the best inside forward in this game is actually Hazard. In my Chelsea save, Hazard got almost a goal a game and tons of assist. Will buy him for Man Utd in the second season too.

9. False Nine / Support

With counter mentality, he stays very close to midfield, no one does it as good as Rooney. Gets a lot of arrive late in the box goals. Still shoots too many long shot, but long shots are easy to go into the net in this FM. No one will ever replicate Messi though.

Team Instructions:

Shorter Passing - Clear Cut

Pass into space - For turning a boring pass game into one with many CCCs and Half Chances

Work Ball Into Box - Prevent long unnecessary pass

Push Higher Up - Keep opponent space tight and load players forward to break on the counter. I believe it is the key that will trigger the counter attack with many players in the opposition half when you take the ball away from the opposition.

Close down more - Its a barca thing.

Stay on feet - To launch counter attack immediately.

Use offside trap - To prevent through ball goals I concede

Be more disciplined - It allows my team to play real counter attack after regaining the ball, tried ticking be more expressive, and it does not work as the passing in the final third is horrible. Better listen to the manager in me than let those young millionaire decide.

Tweaks from original version:

No Roaming - No use for it

No Retain Possession - I think this TI is not meant to retain possession in the Barcelona way, but for teams to slack off in the final 20 mins and play a safe game.

Be more disciplined - As above

Use Offside Trap - Improve leaky defence

No Cover/Stopper DC

New role - False Nine

Overall:

Pass per game is around 500-600, possession is 56 - 65%. Lots of CCCs, lots of Half Chance

Screenie below:

[weiguo]

Just won Liverpool away 6 - 1 with 427 passes ONLY! but 7 CCC and 5 Half Chance.

Only 54% possession. This is seriously taking all the fun out of the game. I was dominating in the game and shredding Liverpool to pieces, passing in the Liverpool half and restricting Liverpool to only 1 CCC.

Or maybe the game thinks I am more of a Gerardo Martino? Sacrifice some possession for more scoring chance. Haha.

[Kelvinu]

I just bought fm15 and i got one question for better tacticians than me : as OP said, balanced(flexible) is the main reason for fluidity because the attacking mentality of the wingbacks. Now, from what i saw on fm15, the wingbacks overlap faster because of the inside IF positions, so we dont have a main reason to use balanced(flexible). We may consider a change of fluidity? (I personally find 'fluid' more suitable for this style)

[kingjericho]

I always set fluidity according to player roles. Search for the 12 step guide in the tactics forum for more information on this

[Kelvinu]

I always set fluidity according to player roles. Search for the 12 step guide in the tactics forum for more information on this

i was questioning about this style. rules can be broken, and sort of special tactic like this might do it.

[yonko]

I always set fluidity according to player roles. Search for the 12 step guide in the tactics forum for more information on this

This is a guide, not a law book.:wink

[kingjericho]

This is a guide, not a law book.:wink

I know. I'm just saying I like to create tactics that follow a logical process and this guide helps me do it.

[Kelvinu]

I found this video that reflects the barca attacking movement presented in the OP :

Now I got 2 questions :

1.) With the tactic presented on the OP, my players don't act like in the video, IF(A)'s and WB(A)'s especially. They seem to try to dribble past opponent everytime they receive the pass instead of passing, even if they got support from teammates. How i can tweak this, as long as in the FM15 we can't tick the Dribble Less PI from the IF(A)'s and WB(A)'s?

2.) In which role i should put Busquets in to reflect the trio-roaming presented in the video? Because it seems that in a HB role he will never interchange position with the DLP(S)/RPM Xavi.

[Nørbæk]

Hi all,

All these years have been lurking in tactics forum to learn. Found a tweaked version of WWfan's tactic very good for FM2015, so decided to register to share it here.

I have tried this tactic with Chelsea and Man Utd and it have worked very good. The attack is stable, player movement is excellent. Sadly the possession % will never reach Fm2013 standards.

The tactic is similar to Wwfan's interpretation in a 4-1-2-3 Wide Formation. Counter / Flexible

1. Sweeper Goalkeeper / Support - PI Distribute to fullback

Pretty standard, not much to comment on. Both De Gea and Courtois are very good in this role.

2. Wing Back Right / Attack

As stated by Wwfan, wingback is the most important position of this tactic to work. They will bomb up the flanks, provide width when the inside forward cuts inside. Antonio Valencia does well in this role for Man Utd, didn't have much chance to use Rafael because he was always injured. Azpilicueta is deadly in this role for my Chelsea save with his long throws providing one extra option for the attack.

3. Wing Back Left / Attack

Similar to the right wing back, very important to this system. At Man Utd, bought Baines on huge contract to tempt him to part with euro cup football to play for me. Baines's corner and set piece abilities is a bonus point. Baines also provide accurate crosses for the False Nine.

5/6. Central Defender / Defend

Used both defenders on Defend due to stupid goals being conceded while on one cover and one stopper duties. Also given how easy through balls split my defense, I chose to play with an offside trap, which would require both defender to be on the same line.

4. Defensive Midfielder / Defend

This role always does not get good rating, but it is very important in keeping goals conceded lower. Previous post have suggested that the new role in Fm2014 - Half Back should be used. I have tried half back, but he does not do anything significant enough for my tactic to work. The defensive midfielder works like a charm. One good ppm i gave the defensive midfielder is "stay back at all times". This ppm is what Busquets is having and while my central defenders push up on the counter, the DM will stand as the last line to head any long ball away. Fellaini / Blind / Matic does this job well. Chose Fellaini against teams with height or play the long ball-target man tactic, he is colossus in the air.

8. Deep Lying Playermaker / Support

The Xavi role. Nothing much else to say =D Carrick is the best player in Man Utd to play in this role. Need to find a replacement for him fast, but it is a big headache when all similar players are so old aka Alonso / Xavi / Pirlo. Usually gets 110+ pass in a game.

10. Advanced Playermaker / Attack

The Iniesta Role, the one that connects the attack. In Fm2015, this role is not very good or outstanding. He gets into the same space as the inside forward and false nine. If i change him to Support role, my attack loses its bite. Can't think of any other role that will do well here too. Herrara scores alot of edge of the pen box shots from this role.

7/11. Inside Forward / Attack

This goal threat in this formation, as mentioned in here, this year the inside forward cuts in very early, and will go to the other wing as if exchange position is selected. It is important to get 2 footed inside forward, and put the stronger left footed on the right, and the stronger right footed on the left. At Man Utd, used Di Maria on the right and Januzaj on the left. Januzaj performs better than Di Maria as an inside forward. Juan Mata is a temporary substitute for both. Ashley Young can be unleashed against weak opponent, he will turn into a cristiano ronaldo imposer suddenly. One of the best inside forward in this game is actually Hazard. In my Chelsea save, Hazard got almost a goal a game and tons of assist. Will buy him for Man Utd in the second season too.

9. False Nine / Support

With counter mentality, he stays very close to midfield, no one does it as good as Rooney. Gets a lot of arrive late in the box goals. Still shoots too many long shot, but long shots are easy to go into the net in this FM. No one will ever replicate Messi though.

Team Instructions:

Shorter Passing - Clear Cut

Pass into space - For turning a boring pass game into one with many CCCs and Half Chances

Work Ball Into Box - Prevent long unnecessary pass

Push Higher Up - Keep opponent space tight and load players forward to break on the counter. I believe it is the key that will trigger the counter attack with many players in the opposition half when you take the ball away from the opposition.

Close down more - Its a barca thing.

Stay on feet - To launch counter attack immediately.

Use offside trap - To prevent through ball goals I concede

Be more disciplined - It allows my team to play real counter attack after regaining the ball, tried ticking be more expressive, and it does not work as the passing in the final third is horrible. Better listen to the manager in me than let those young millionaire decide.

Tweaks from original version:

No Roaming - Don't make sense for roaming now

No Retain Possession - I think this TI is not meant to retain possession in the Barcelona way, but for teams to slack off in the final 20 mins and play a safe game.

Be more disciplined - As above

Use Offside Trap - Improve leaky defence

No Cover/Stopper DC

New role - False Nine

Overall:

Pass per game is around 500-600, possession is 56 - 65%. Lots of CCCs, lots of Half Chance

Screenie below:

Tried this with Bayern and I got hammered in all matches

Main issues were:

1) Defensively my players never really closed down despite asking them to. They just stand around and stare at the attackers.

2) Attackingly my players tend to dwell on the ball and stand around until tackled.

3) I am not getting many counter attacks at all.

I have no idea how to change this.

I played an attacking minded tactic before where I won most matches but didn't play very well.

[kingjericho]

Inside forwards on attack duty don't work well this year. They don't defend. It's better to have them on support and maybe a deep lying forward on attack.

Also, the DLP(S)/AP(A) combo doesn't work very well either, becausde none of those attacks the box. The best we get is the AP(A) on the edge of the area.

[JWVG]

Replicating Barca 2011 on FM is, as on previous version, doomed to failure.

The 3 main reasons why:

-you can't tell your players to press like Barca

-you can't tell your players to move like Barca

-you can't tell your players to pass like Barca

Maybe on highlights mode it looks a little bit like Barca, but dare to watch on full mode...

[Falahk]

Replicating Barca 2011 on FM is, as on previous version, doomed to failure.

The 3 main reasons why:

-you can't tell your players to press like Barca

-you can't tell your players to move like Barca

-you can't tell your players to pass like Barca

Maybe on highlights mode it looks a little bit like Barca, but dare to watch on full mode...

you can recreate the movement and passing, I have done it before on earlier fm's, it takes a bit of time (to get the tactical setup working) and squad development (you need players molded to play the sytem) but its possible

the pressing game is much harder to replicate thought

[Jean0987654321]

Have anybody tried the TI "take a brrather". I wonder if it would have an impact on the tactic

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Inside forwards on attack duty don't work well this year. They don't defend. It's better to have them on support and maybe a deep lying forward on attack.

Also, the DLP(S)/AP(A) combo doesn't work very well either, becausde none of those attacks the box. The best we get is the AP(A) on the edge of the area.

Yeah but the outlet is the two wide forwards and the false 9.

Theoretically you could get around the restriction by using PPM's, arrives late in opposition area / get in box / gets forward when possible - That might push the AP up enough.

[adidinamoa]

Hi guys! My team started to play very well, especially at home, but possession is still a problem , I hope easy easy to grow . Here's a picture!

[wwfan]

Remember that FM doesn't always perfectly reflect the way in which stats are measured in the real world, for technical reasons and research differences. Possession in FM is generally closer than it is in the real world, which might be caused by a technical element of the ME or that SI measure possession slightly differently than OPTA.

[all4everdragon]

Remember that FM doesn't always perfectly reflect the way in which stats are measured in the real world, for technical reasons and research differences. Possession in FM is generally closer than it is in the real world, which might be caused by a technical element of the ME or that SI measure possession slightly differently than OPTA.

When you have the opportunity, could you share your view of the current Bayern Munich like you did for Barcelona with this topic ?

[wwfan]

When you have the opportunity, could you share your view of the current Bayern Munich like you did for Barcelona with this topic ?

I'd love to but, due to current life circumstances, I haven't had enough time to watch them to be confident in capturing their system in FM terms.

[all4everdragon]

I'd love to but, due to current life circumstances, I haven't had enough time to watch them to be confident in capturing their system in FM terms.

It's fair. Life, always with its own complexities and still, we can't live without it

[RTHerringbone]

Inside forwards on attack duty don't work well this year. They don't defend. It's better to have them on support and maybe a deep lying forward on attack.

Do you still feel that's the case? I admit I steered clear of them until the last update, but for me that fixed them to the point where they defend as much as you'd expect an Attack Duty player to defend. Since the update, I've been more than happy with using AML/R players.

[all4everdragon]

Do you still feel that's the case? I admit I steered clear of them until the last update, but for me that fixed them to the point where they defend as much as you'd expect an Attack Duty player to defend. Since the update, I've been more than happy with using AML/R players.

yeah, they've been worse in other years. I think it's more like taking too long to react, but suddenly they start chasing the opponent.

[my_heroine]

Remember that FM doesn't always perfectly reflect the way in which stats are measured in the real world, for technical reasons and research differences. Possession in FM is generally closer than it is in the real world, which might be caused by a technical element of the ME or that SI measure possession slightly differently than OPTA.

As far as I know, Opta measures possession by counting the attempted passes from a team in relation to the overall amount of passes in a match.

So if Team A tried 650 passes and Team B 350, then Team A would have 65% possession and the other 35%.

FM counts the actual time on the ball if I'm not mistaken?

[RTHerringbone]

As far as I know, Opta measures possession by counting the attempted passes from a team in relation to the overall amount of passes in a match.

So if Team A tried 650 passes and Team B 350, then Team A would have 65% possession and the other 35%.

FM counts the actual time on the ball if I'm not mistaken?

Yep, and then places like WhoScored might do it one way, StatsZone another way, Squawka another.....

It's generally a pointless exercise trying to compare any stats with each other, as it can be hard to be sure you are comparing like for like.

[Uncle_Sam]

I'm pretty sure Opta measures possession by completed passes rather than passes attempted.

[RTHerringbone]

This is an article about how Opta measure possession:

http://www.optasports.com/news-area/blog-a-ball-possessed.aspx

[yonko]

Inside forwards on attack duty don't work well this year. They don't defend. It's better to have them on support and maybe a deep lying forward on attack.

Do you still feel that's the case? I admit I steered clear of them until the last update, but for me that fixed them to the point where they defend as much as you'd expect an Attack Duty player to defend. Since the update, I've been more than happy with using AML/R players.

yeah, they've been worse in other years. I think it's more like taking too long to react, but suddenly they start chasing the opponent.

AMRL definitely defend since 15.2.1 patch. I'm using RMDs and Very Fluid philosophy and even they do some defending. Inside Forwards even more so.

[all4everdragon]

AMRL definitely defend since 15.2.1 patch. I'm using RMDs and Very Fluid philosophy and even they do some defending. Inside Forwards even more so.

yeah, a lot better, I think it's just a matter of fine tunning the moment of reaction when the team is on defensive transition.

[RTHerringbone]

AMRL definitely defend since 15.2.1 patch. I'm using RMDs and Very Fluid philosophy and even they do some defending. Inside Forwards even more so.

Agreed. I'm using a Raumdeuter and also had an IF (A) in my 4-2-3-1 for a while in a Fluid system and was more than happy with their defensive contribution. I ended up switching the IF to Support, but moreso to striker a better attacking balance than to remedy any defensive issues.

[JWVG]

As far as I know, Opta measures possession by counting the attempted passes from a team in relation to the overall amount of passes in a match.

So if Team A tried 650 passes and Team B 350, then Team A would have 65% possession and the other 35%.

FM counts the actual time on the ball if I'm not mistaken?

Hm, that is interesting, I always thought possession statistics where actual time on the ball...

But, anyway, problem with creating tiki-taka in FM15 is not the way ball possession is measured.

The problem is that the players tend to waste possession far too easy, no matter what instructions you give them.

They hardly can string 5 passes together... and the amount of shots (in comparison to real life football) is also too high.

But I guess we have to live with that, possession isn't everything

[RTHerringbone]

The problem is that the players tend to waste possession far too easy, no matter what instructions you give them.

They hardly can string 5 passes together... and the amount of shots (in comparison to real life football) is also too high.

But I guess we have to live with that, possession isn't everything

I don't agree with this at all. You can create very possession-centric systems generating an average of ~65% quite easily, with the right balance. The question is whether you want possession to massage the FM possession statistic in line with a real life statistic you recognise, or if you want to win football matches. You can do both, but you need to know what your ultimate goal is first.

[THOG]

I don't agree with this at all. You can create very possession-centric systems generating an average of ~65% quite easily, with the right balance. The question is whether you want possession to massage the FM possession statistic in line with a real life statistic you recognise, or if you want to win football matches. You can do both, but you need to know what your ultimate goal is first.

Exactly this. If you combine a tactic like this with a tactic specifically designed to defend with the ball once you've taken the lead, you can get impressive possession stats.

[declanelcocks]

Taking a look at that thread, what exactly does take a breather do? I've never used it as I assumed it would just result in a lack of pressing

[aderow]

It reduces runs from deep, lowers the tempo, and increases time wasting. It's a good thing to use when trying to kill off a match or when trying to conserve your team's energy. I've also used it when my opponent is parking the bus as it gives me the opportunity to slowly probe and hopefully draw the defenders out.

[Kelvinu]

wwfan, what's your opinion regarding the new roles and TI's that have been added in recent versions of the game? Sure, the core of the tactic is still the same, but what do you think about the 'Look for overlap' setting, the HB, RMD and F9 roles? Could them be subtitute for some roles presented in the OP?

I feel that setting Messi as TQ is not coming as deep as he should, and I feel setting him as F9 reduces his impact in the tactic. What's your opinion about the role that would define him now in the OP tactic? Also, what do you think about the new RMD role, is it more suitable for the old Pedro/Villa duo?

[isignedupfornorealreason]

wwfan, what's your opinion regarding the new roles and TI's that have been added in recent versions of the game? Sure, the core of the tactic is still the same, but what do you think about the 'Look for overlap' setting, the HB, RMD and F9 roles? Could them be subtitute for some roles presented in the OP?

I feel that setting Messi as TQ is not coming as deep as he should, and I feel setting him as F9 reduces his impact in the tactic. What's your opinion about the role that would define him now in the OP tactic? Also, what do you think about the new RMD role, is it more suitable for the old Pedro/Villa duo?

He already says in the middle of the topic to switch to a HB and F9.

[kingjericho]

He says you can use the new roles, but personally the OP settings are working fine.

The Raumdeuter might not be a good choice because it's basically a 'wide poacher' role, which means that player will play few through balls and try just simple passes.

[Kelvinu]

I asked because in the system presented in the OP with a F9 role, my Lio seems isolated and no creative at all. He rarely gets past opponents, and rarely/never its in the end of a pass. I dont know why, but it gets tackled every single time he tries to get past an opponent.

Also, my IF(A)'s ( Suarez and Neymar ) are always(!) selfish, as they try to finish even if they're on a tight angle(they have "pass instead of shoot PPM and shoot less often PI)/try to dribble past opponents even that they have better positioned teammates

I'm the only one having this issues or they are a common?

[JimmyGuitarist]

Possession itself isn't the main struggle, the struggle is achieving what you should be trying achieve through the possession. Creating the opportunities to find the third man, the player between the lines, overloading ball-side, underloading the other side, pressing etc.

This quote essentially describes it in short: “The principle idea of Positional Play is that players pass the ball to each other in close spaces to be able to pass to a wide open man.” - Juan Manuel Lillo. There's a really good article on www.spielverlagerung.com which describes it all brilliantly.

Since possession is really the only thing you can really achieve out of all the things involved with the style of play, my Borussia Gladbach side don't do terribly -

74% - away to Magdeburg -- 0-1 win.

70% - at home vs. CSKA (Sofia) -- 4-0 win.

62% - at home vs. Vfl Wolfsburg -- 1-0 win.

70% - away to CSKA (Sofia) -- 1-1 draw.

66% - away to Eintracht Frankfurt -- 0-0 draw.

66% - away to Hannover 96 -- 0-1 win.

66% - away to En Avant de Guingamp -- 0-2 win.

74% - at home vs. SC Paderborn 07 -- 2-0 win.

56% - away to SV Werder Bremen -- 3-1 loss.

69% - at home vs. Bayer Leverkusen -- 0-0 draw.

64% - at home vs. F.C. København -- 1-0 win.

63% - away to FC Schalke 04 -- 1-1 draw.

53% - at home vs. Bayern München -- 3-1 win.

69% - at home vs. Hull -- 2-1 win.

62% - away to 1. FSV Mainz 05 -- 1-2 win.

74% - away to Bielefeld -- 0-1 win.

65% - at home vs. TSG 1899 Hoffenheim -- 4-0 win.

76% - away to Hull -- 1-1.

70% - at home vs. Hertha Berlin -- 1-0 win.

73% - away to FC Augsburg -- 0-0 draw.

Average so far: 67.1%

I've had to adapt loads during games to get control of possession, we can never play a full 90 minutes with the starting tactic. For example, we'll usually dominate the opening 20 minutes, have a dip, then change something and get control again until half time. Then at the start of second halves, we always lose control again & then I'll change something again to try to regain it etc etc. There's definitely no such thing as a plug & play tactic, particularly if you're trying to achieve this style anyway.

[Mercurio.3]

Possession itself isn't the main struggle, the struggle is achieving what you should be trying achieve through the possession. Creating the opportunities to find the third man, the player between the lines, overloading ball-side, underloading the other side, pressing etc.

This quote essentially describes it in short: “The principle idea of Positional Play is that players pass the ball to each other in close spaces to be able to pass to a wide open man.” - Juan Manuel Lillo. There's a really good article on www.spielverlagerung.com which describes it all brilliantly.

Since possession is really the only thing you can really achieve out of all the things involved with the style of play, my Borussia Gladbach side don't do terribly -

74% - away to Magdeburg -- 0-1 win.

70% - at home vs. CSKA (Sofia) -- 4-0 win.

62% - at home vs. Vfl Wolfsburg -- 1-0 win.

70% - away to CSKA (Sofia) -- 1-1 draw.

66% - away to Eintracht Frankfurt -- 0-0 draw.

66% - away to Hannover 96 -- 0-1 win.

66% - away to En Avant de Guingamp -- 0-2 win.

74% - at home vs. SC Paderborn 07 -- 2-0 win.

56% - away to SV Werder Bremen -- 3-1 loss.

69% - at home vs. Bayer Leverkusen -- 0-0 draw.

64% - at home vs. F.C. København -- 1-0 win.

63% - away to FC Schalke 04 -- 1-1 draw.

53% - at home vs. Bayern München -- 3-1 win.

69% - at home vs. Hull -- 2-1 win.

62% - away to 1. FSV Mainz 05 -- 1-2 win.

74% - away to Bielefeld -- 0-1 win.

65% - at home vs. TSG 1899 Hoffenheim -- 4-0 win.

76% - away to Hull -- 1-1.

70% - at home vs. Hertha Berlin -- 1-0 win.

73% - away to FC Augsburg -- 0-0 draw.

Average so far: 67.1%

I've had to adapt loads during games to get control of possession, we can never play a full 90 minutes with the starting tactic. For example, we'll usually dominate the opening 20 minutes, have a dip, then change something and get control again until half time. Then at the start of second halves, we always lose control again & then I'll change something again to try to regain it etc etc. There's definitely no such thing as a plug & play tactic, particularly if you're trying to achieve this style anyway.

Could you explain your starting tactic?

[Mercurio.3]

What do you think?

[video=youtube;e6sYPrlpprs]

[kingjericho]

I asked because in the system presented in the OP with a F9 role, my Lio seems isolated and no creative at all. He rarely gets past opponents, and rarely/never its in the end of a pass. I dont know why, but it gets tackled every single time he tries to get past an opponent.

Also, my IF(A)'s ( Suarez and Neymar ) are always(!) selfish, as they try to finish even if they're on a tight angle(they have "pass instead of shoot PPM and shoot less often PI)/try to dribble past opponents even that they have better positioned teammates

I'm the only one having this issues or they are a common?

I'm using a IF/IF/TQ trio upfront but the IF are on support. They don't score as much but they make the team more balanced. And the TQ is scoring very consistently, so far he has 19 in 24 games.

[all4everdragon]

Possession itself isn't the main struggle, the struggle is achieving what you should be trying achieve through the possession. Creating the opportunities to find the third man, the player between the lines, overloading ball-side, underloading the other side, pressing etc.

This quote essentially describes it in short: “The principle idea of Positional Play is that players pass the ball to each other in close spaces to be able to pass to a wide open man.” - Juan Manuel Lillo. There's a really good article on www.spielverlagerung.com which describes it all brilliantly.

Since possession is really the only thing you can really achieve out of all the things involved with the style of play, my Borussia Gladbach side don't do terribly -

74% - away to Magdeburg -- 0-1 win.

70% - at home vs. CSKA (Sofia) -- 4-0 win.

62% - at home vs. Vfl Wolfsburg -- 1-0 win.

70% - away to CSKA (Sofia) -- 1-1 draw.

66% - away to Eintracht Frankfurt -- 0-0 draw.

66% - away to Hannover 96 -- 0-1 win.

66% - away to En Avant de Guingamp -- 0-2 win.

74% - at home vs. SC Paderborn 07 -- 2-0 win.

56% - away to SV Werder Bremen -- 3-1 loss.

69% - at home vs. Bayer Leverkusen -- 0-0 draw.

64% - at home vs. F.C. København -- 1-0 win.

63% - away to FC Schalke 04 -- 1-1 draw.

53% - at home vs. Bayern München -- 3-1 win.

69% - at home vs. Hull -- 2-1 win.

62% - away to 1. FSV Mainz 05 -- 1-2 win.

74% - away to Bielefeld -- 0-1 win.

65% - at home vs. TSG 1899 Hoffenheim -- 4-0 win.

76% - away to Hull -- 1-1.

70% - at home vs. Hertha Berlin -- 1-0 win.

73% - away to FC Augsburg -- 0-0 draw.

Average so far: 67.1%

I've had to adapt loads during games to get control of possession, we can never play a full 90 minutes with the starting tactic. For example, we'll usually dominate the opening 20 minutes, have a dip, then change something and get control again until half time. Then at the start of second halves, we always lose control again & then I'll change something again to try to regain it etc etc. There's definitely no such thing as a plug & play tactic, particularly if you're trying to achieve this style anyway.

Can you share the direct link to the article ?

Found it :-) it's when I read articles like this one that I look to FM and I think the game has so much missing

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I asked because in the system presented in the OP with a F9 role, my Lio seems isolated and no creative at all. He rarely gets past opponents, and rarely/never its in the end of a pass. I dont know why, but it gets tackled every single time he tries to get past an opponent.

Also, my IF(A)'s ( Suarez and Neymar ) are always(!) selfish, as they try to finish even if they're on a tight angle(they have "pass instead of shoot PPM and shoot less often PI)/try to dribble past opponents even that they have better positioned teammates

I'm the only one having this issues or they are a common?

It wasn't an issue for me when I started using the 4-3-3, but the updates may have changed things. I thought crossing was much better but they got nerfed back down to 'stand around like a moron until you get closed down, then cross' levels with the newer updates.

If you're having issued with the IF's switch them to an IF/S or a raumdeuter.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

To sum up the topic;

Barcelona style of play;

3 defensive players in the DC, DC and DM slots.

3 Creative players in the MC, MC, FWD slots.

Width is gained via the Wing Backs who push up thanks to two Inside Forwards.

Philosophy: Counter, Flexible.

Roles: (Changes or amendments in brackets)

Sweeper Keeper / Support

Centre Back / Defend

Ball Playing CB / Defend * (Cover/Stopper split if you stick to OP, 2xDefend is fine - WWFAN agrees with set ups using either option.)

Wing Back / Attack * (Complete Wing Back / Attack - See post #187 on agreement of changing this role, note WB/A is still fine though.)

Defensive Midfielder / Defend (Half Back / Defend - See posts #187 and 360 - Half back does the 'drop into cb' role. Also note, this is a 'free role' that you, as the manager, are meant to change. The role fluctuated from a Deep Lying Playmaker to Half Back depending on the strength of the opposition.)

Deep Lying Playmaker / Support (Roaming Playmaker / Support - See post #190 and a lot of posts on the first page. There is talk of how Iniesta gets forward more-so IRL than he does under a DLP, sometimes getting into the box. Roaming Playmaker is the role that gets him being the 'heartbeat', your mileage may vary.)

Advanced Playmaker / Attack (No change...)

Inside Forward / Attack (There are some posts about Villa/Pedro role being different, this could be Raumdeuter + IF but nothing definite was agreed.)

Treq / Attack (False 9 / Support - This along with the HB wasn't ideal in FM14 but is working as intended now, provided the long shots bug has been fixed. See post #360)

Team Instructions:

These were 'sliders':

Shorter Passing,

Higher Creative Freedom,

Higher Pressing,

Normal Tackling,

More Roaming.

These were 'shouts' (FM11, old shouts.)

Retain Possession,

Pass into Space,

Work Ball into box,

Push higher up

Hassle Opposition,

Stay on Feet.

This is how it translates into FM15:

Retain Possession,

Shorter Passing (See my post #395 that removing this and only leaving on "Retain possession" can open up the passing routes a bit better leading to better possession)

Work Ball Into Box,

Much Higher Defensive Line (See WWFAN post #311 where he confirms MUCH higher and not the lower setting.)

Close Down More,

Stay On Feet.

Pass into Space

Be More Expressive (Shouts for slider)

Roam from positions (Shouts for slider)

These are the settings WWFAN updated in #311:

Shorter Passing,

Retain Possession,

Play out of Defence, (See also post #71 confirming this back in FM12!)

Much higher defensive line,

Hassle opponents. (Close down more)

What does this mean?

Use the WWFAN "Core settings" from post #311 and consider the other settings 'optional'. - It seems most people followed this route in their adjustments anyway.

That's the topic in a nutshell.

Additional Gems: How to play as their rivals: Real Madrid:

Similar set up, 4-3-3, Ronaldo as the Raumdeuter etc.

Direct Passing,

Higher Tempo,

Lower Defensive line.

#311 for the Real Madrid shouts. Just to show the differences between the two styles of play within the same formational shape.

[all4everdragon]

Pass into space is off ? and no TI for tempo, right ?

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Pass into space is off ? and no TI for tempo, right ?

Pass into space is usually on (but he didn't mention it in post #311, it is in the OP and I use it)

There's no team instructions for Tempo.

[all4everdragon]

Pass into space is usually on (but he didn't mention it in post #311, it is in the OP and I use it)

There's no team instructions for Tempo.

Thanks and great work compiling all that . Forgot to mention about width, I guess there's also no TI right ?

and if playing with a high defense line, shouldn't it make more sense to use the offside trap ?