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lonestar190

Sick and tired of ongoing bug inthe ME

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This bug/flaw whatever you want to call it has been in the match engine for years and has never been addressed or fixed.

Every single goal kick, for any team, the defensive line for the kicking team , and specifically the central defenders, start with a nice buffer between them and the opposing strikers. As the ball soars over the defenders' heads and towards an offensive player, the defensive line, for no good reason, always moves 15-20 yards forwards and, by the time the ball comes down for the challanged header, is even with teh opposing striker and moving away from goal.

The result: a good header by the opposing defenders sends the striker clean through on goal.

As the opposing team's defender wins the ball, my defenders are moving away from goal and their striker is standing still, even and thus perfectly onside with my defenders. Because the defenders aremoving away, the striker gets a 6-7 yard lead the second every player reacts.

There is nothing tactically that can be done to prevent this. I play in a lower league, and have two slower central defenders. i play a deep defensive line, make the defenders stand off the opposing strikers, and during open play my tactic works great. But in this one area of the game, for some inexplicable reason, the defenders are moving the wrong direction and completely out of place.

Defenders of the kicking team dont move a lot while a goal kick is inthe air, and definitely dont run 15-20 yards from where they were initially barring a horrible kick that brings them into play. This is extremely poor coding and has been in the game for years and years. Stop adding agents and other fluff and fix this kind of thing that ruins my hard fought tactical game.

If, by chance, I am wrong in this and somehow my tactical work over the last several years has missed the solution, I am all ears and apologize. But check your game and see if during a goal kick the defensive line doesn't completely expose itself to a quick through ball pretty much every single time. AI temas as well.

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I've had it too and the only thing you can do is telling your goalie to pass the ball to DR/DL.

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It is a highlight at least once, and usually more, in every game I play right now.

Unacceptable.

From my last game: Here is the defensive line position when the kick is taken. Notice the nice buffer between the slow CBs and the quick Strikers as per my instructions of having a fairly deep defensive line. I do not play an offside trap.

meflaw1.png

Here is the position when the yellow team midfielder heads the ball from the kick. Not a huge difference, but notice that the yellow strikers HAVE NOT MOVED!! Thus my team is moving the wrong direction and the strikers get a huge advantage.

meflaw2.png

And the result.

meflaw3.png

My slow defender gets a nice red card for a professional foul. Thanks SI. This has been happening for years. This is not a new problem! FIX IT!

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I've noticed that this is happening a lot since the last patch, i'm actually getting a lot of chances this way but it's quite unrealistic, every other game you see at least one chance from this situation.

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So, you kick the ball into central midfield for your strong CMs to win it in the air. Meanwhile, your defence pushes up to catch the opposition off-side.

It isn't working.

How many times do you get stung before you stop poking the wasp nest?

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This happens to me more than I would like.

In fact that exactly sturridge scored against me tonight....

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if you feel it is a bug issue thet needs to be addressed then post it in the bug forum. give as much information as possible, bearing in mind the next patch is almost certainly the last

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So, you kick the ball into central midfield for your strong CMs to win it in the air. Meanwhile, your defence pushes up to catch the opposition off-side.

It isn't working.

How many times do you get stung before you stop poking the wasp nest?

How many goals in this manner have you seen in RL?

Maybe we should push to fix the ME instead of working around it all the time?

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must admit i never really see this at all, my keeper always throws it out short and when he does kick it i never get caught out, cant really think of me scoring many if any like this either but then i always play with a deep defensive line and play quick counter attacking football.

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I have never noticed this before FM11, but now it happens several times a match. It is particularly stupid when it becomes obvious the ball will be coming back but the defender just charge forwards regardless.

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This problem drives me crazy! I guess we will just have to force our keepers to throw the ball to the fullbacks until SI fix this stupid problem.

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if you feel it is a bug issue thet needs to be addressed then post it in the bug forum. give as much information as possible, bearing in mind the next patch is almost certainly the last

This. Anyone who complains without raising a bug in the bug forum (or providing further examples to an existing one) has no right to complain.

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The whole match engine is pretty shaky, in my opinion.

Players pretty much do what they want, no matter how much you pander to what they know, or what they are good at.

You can do as much consistent match preparation & tactical mucking about as you like, it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference.

Little rhyme or reason in results.

I've been playing this game for years, so I know how the whole tactics side of the game works:

-Got players all in their preferred positions

-Tactics they are playing to are their preferred, as stated in the editor e.g. Leeds - quite direct, wide, quick - traditional wing-based 442

-Match preparation says they team are 'Accomplished' in every area

-Morale is great, fitness excellent

-Tweaked my reputation at the beginning of the game so they'd listen to me a bit more!

-Gave it 20 matches on 'Team Blend' to let them gel, but I didn't buy any new players anyway, so this is probably overkill

-Team listed as 'blending well together'

-Coaches up to between 3 and half and 4 stars for everything - pushing them a bit in training

-I know how team talks and the media work - I'm pretty good with that

Still getting totally inconsistent results that make no sense whatsoever.

I've tried using 'cheats' like FMRTE just to test, and set each player in each position to 'Pro', so they are all absolutely consistent, but no real effect.

They still wander about doing pretty much whatever they like!

Other past versions have felt like the user really is having a defined effect on a team.

I don't get that feeling from this version - there's just too much weird stuff going on that makes no sense...

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then you must be doing something wrong, seriously, i just walked through the spanish league, scored 137 league goals, conceded 16. lost one game in the league to Real and lost the champs league final to Real, no stuttering, tactics working exactly as i set them up, leave ass man to press conferences, standard training, good coaches but not the best in the world and a very standard 4-4-2 tactic with the wingers playing higher up the pitch and one as an inside winger.

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I've seen it a few times, but seriously, every goal kick?? Doubtful. If this was true we would see loads more goals.

In fact, I will change my tactics to encourage my team to take lots of long shots and give away goal kicks to see how many I can score from!

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then you must be doing something wrong, seriously]

Honestly, with the greatest of respect I really don't think I am.

I know everyone says this, but I've been playing this game for so long! I know how it works!

Everything from tactical, to training, to media - I've been ridiculously successful in other releases!

I've tried Newcastle, Leeds and Grimsby so far, with pretty much the same result.

No consistency of performance - amazing against a good team away with my standard tactic, then capitulate at home with the exact same tactic.

Players constantly do stuff they haven't been asked to do, or have specifically been asked NOT to do!!

Difficult to get really gripped by the game when results differ wildly even with a settled team playing settled tactics...

Kenco - I've got that problem too. It isn't EVERY time...but it does happen way too often.

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well as i say i have not seen those issues at all so it must be to do with your tactics and the way you are setting things up. If you know how it works then you should know how to avoid the situations you are describing, and im really not meaning to sound condescending here but i have also played FM games for years and i dont struggle as i have shown. You have to remember that sometimes for no reason your team will play badly, its up to you as the manager to pull it together and get it working, players have their own mind, even if you ask them to do things they will ignore you thats football, a manager does not control every single aspect of a game of football. Not having a go but it seems that people expect once they have found a single way of winning that this will continue indefinitely without any problems but again football does not work that way.

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Just wanted to reply to a few people and try to keep the conversation on point:

First off, thanks for the replies, good to see the issue getting dome attention:

Second, yes, it happens in every game. And it most likely happens in your game. By "it" I mean the poor defensive line positioning. The reason you are not seeing it, is that you have speedy, quality defenders. Had my defender been faster than the striker in the above posted pictures, it probably wouldn't have even been a highlight. This is probably the situation in your game. However, your defensive line is still starting at one point, and pushing forward on goal kicks for no reason, while the opposing strikers don't really move. I have seen several goal kicks where there is no CC created, but the defensive line is still doing the same poor positioning.

I have slow defenders and do not play the offside trap. However, my lone striker and 2 of my CM's are really good in the air. Thus, having to distribute to my full backs hurts me. While I have started doing this, it is a poor solution when the fix should really be a way of getting my defenders to hold like they do during open play.

Also, this does not seem to be an issue when the keeper clears the ball or kicks it otherwise. It seems to be isolated to goal kicks and free kicks in the same area.

If anyone can post screenshots of this not happening (i.e. the defensive line not moving on a goal kick) I would be most interested.

Remember: the fact that you are not seeing this regularly may mean your defenders are quick enough to prevent the one on one. Essentially, it hides the issue from you. It is still an issue though.

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if you cannot adjust your tactics to suit your defence then its your problem not the problem with the ME. Just because your centre mids are good in the air doesnt mean you should punt balls at them all day long, the fact you are conceding like you describe tells me it doesnt work and you need to look at that rather than blame the game. Remember we ALL play off the same code if updated to the newest patches so if one of us has a bug then we are all effected and clearly thats not the case in this instance.

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This. Anyone who complains without raising a bug in the bug forum (or providing further examples to an existing one) has no right to complain.

Wait, so some one has no right to complain about such a flaw that he feels has been in game for years? That said the OP is clearly exaggerating how often this happens, I see it every now and then for and against me, which may not be all that unrealistic, it certainly happens from time to time irl.

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if you cannot adjust your tactics to suit your defence then its your problem not the problem with the ME. Just because your centre mids are good in the air doesnt mean you should punt balls at them all day long, the fact you are conceding like you describe tells me it doesnt work and you need to look at that rather than blame the game. Remember we ALL play off the same code if updated to the newest patches so if one of us has a bug then we are all effected and clearly thats not the case in this instance.

Did you even read my post before responding? I think your personal view of your own awesomeness in running the Spanish league is preventing you from properly analyzing this situation. Did you move your ego out of the way, start of FM and see see if your defensive line moves as detailed in the pictures above? I dout it.

Stop punting the ball? It is goal kicks, not punts that are the issue. Calm down, try playing with a couple of slow CBs, and then get back to me. At the very least, open up FM and see what is happening with your defensive line on goal kicks. If it is moving as above, it is incorrect from a basic football point of view.

The fact that you are not conceding from an issue (as stated clearly above) does not mean it is not an issue. And the solution of not kicking the ball from goal kicks is just stupid. Its a fix for now, but in real life you would be able to properly position your defenders, not have to work around them.

Open the game, check out the issue, post screenshots. Or just post about how awesome you are. The latter makes you look good, I promise.

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i never said i was awesome infact you appear to be the one claiming that, anyway ill leave you to it, your more interested in finding a fault with the game than admitting it could be your tactics.

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Guest

I've seen this happen hundreds of times in my save, but I've been playing as Liverpool so it affects the (generally weaker) opposition much more than me, creating tonnes of clear cut chances for my nippy strikers to screw wide or hit straight at the keeper. If you've got a tall player in the anchor position, and quick strikers, that seems to be the best way to benefit from this bug.

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I posted about this a while ago on the match engine feedback thread

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/231054-Official-FM2011-Match-Engine-Feedback-Thread?p=6315348&viewfull=1#post6315348

Please don't play the "it's your tactics" card people.. i benefit from this a lot without doing anything in particular(except having a pacey forward upfront) there are way too many chances created this way, i've only noticed this happening a lot since the last patch.

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i never said i was awesome infact you appear to be the one claiming that, anyway ill leave you to it, your more interested in finding a fault with the game than admitting it could be your tactics.

I think you opened your game and noticed it happening....or you were to lazy to do so. Either way, thanks for the contribution.

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saw this happen to the opposition a fair few times in my first season, they were laying a high line against me, and i have rooney and hernandez up front. Not seen it happen second season, assume because teams fear me and thus play more defensive and therefore a deeper line. never had the issue against me though.

If its happening to you, play a deeper line

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saw this happen to the opposition a fair few times in my first season, they were laying a high line against me, and i have rooney and hernandez up front. Not seen it happen second season, assume because teams fear me and thus play more defensive and therefore a deeper line. never had the issue against me though.

If its happening to you, play a deeper line

But....I play a deep line (as stated several times). 3-4 clicks up from the lowest option. Playing any deeper makes the rest of my tactic go to heck and still doesn't fix the issue. Goal kicks seem to mostly ignore the defensive line settings.

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if you cannot adjust your tactics to suit your defence then its your problem not the problem with the ME. Just because your centre mids are good in the air doesnt mean you should punt balls at them all day long, the fact you are conceding like you describe tells me it doesnt work and you need to look at that rather than blame the game. Remember we ALL play off the same code if updated to the newest patches so if one of us has a bug then we are all effected and clearly thats not the case in this instance.

Different issues in the code affect different users in different ways. Depends on much more than just having the latest update.

This is one of the reasons that SI are having trouble, for example, in isolating the problems SOME (not all) users are having with the tactics / set piece creator.

I am perfectly capable of adjusting my tactics, but there is still way too much inconsistency.

For example - you can play the exact same game, with a completely homogenised, standardised team, and use exactly the same tactics, teams talks and media interaction, and get a crazy set of results back!

I am not the only one to complain of this.

I am glad you are having no trouble and are enjoying the game, but that isn't the case for everyone.

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well as i say i have not seen those issues at all so it must be to do with your tactics and the way you are setting things up. If you know how it works then you should know how to avoid the situations you are describing, and im really not meaning to sound condescending here but i have also played FM games for years and i dont struggle as i have shown. You have to remember that sometimes for no reason your team will play badly, its up to you as the manager to pull it together and get it working, players have their own mind, even if you ask them to do things they will ignore you thats football, a manager does not control every single aspect of a game of football. Not having a go but it seems that people expect once they have found a single way of winning that this will continue indefinitely without any problems but again football does not work that way.

I'm pretty well aware of how football works, as I also am about software development and the isolation of 'bugs'.

Again - I'm really glad you aren't struggling, but a lot of people genuinely are...

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I'm also pretty well aware of how football works, as I also am about software development and the isolation of 'bugs'.

Again - I'm really glad you aren't struggling, but a lot of people genuinely are...

im delighted for you but what was the point you were trying to make?

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im delighted for you but what was the point you were trying to make?

That just because the game is all fine for you, that doesn't mean that other people aren't having real problems.

Telling people they are doing something wrong just because you happen to be having a wonderful time managing in Spain isn't terribly helpful...

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That just because the game is all fine for you, that doesn't mean that other people aren't having real problems.

Telling people they are doing something wrong just because you happen to be having a wonderful time managing in Spain isn't terribly helpful...

christ it was one example to show that consistancy is possible in the game despite what some people say, i am in no way showing off or bragging, it was just to show it is possible to have a team consistantly play well. If one person can achieve this in the game then everyone can do it with the right tactics and formations.

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christ it was one example to show that consistancy is possible in the game despite what some people say, i am in no way showing off or bragging, it was just to show it is possible to have a team consistantly play well. If one person can achieve this in the game then everyone can do it with the right tactics and formations.

You are also in no way opening up your game and seeing if there is an issue. And your earlier post sounded a lot like bragging.

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christ it was one example to show that consistancy is possible in the game despite what some people say, i am in no way showing off or bragging, it was just to show it is possible to have a team consistantly play well. If one person can achieve this in the game then everyone can do it with the right tactics and formations.

I don't think I personally accused you of bragging, or anything else for that matter. I've been perfectly friendly.

And your contention that because the game is OK for one person, it's OK for us all is incorrect.

There are legion examples all over these forums where some people are affected by certain issues, and other aren't.

It was the same with FM09 and FM10.

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You are also in no way opening up your game and seeing if there is an issue. And your earlier post sounded a lot like bragging.

i could run tests if you really wanted, i have saves with AC Milan, Barcelona, Aberdeen, Cambridge and Luton, i have not had this issue with any of them, but then i dont try and aim all goal kicks down the middle of the pitch, centre backs will usually always be better in the air than my midfield or strikers so i dont see the point wasting posession like that.

Its hardly bragging saying you have dominated with the best team and best players in the world!! I'm no genius at this game but there are somethings that are simple to sort, this for me is one of them.

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i could run tests if you really wanted....

I did a bit of testing, just for the hell of it. Played the same match over and over.

Leeds vs Cardiff

Exactly the same team

Exactly the same tactics

Exactly the same set pieces

Exactly the same player interactions

Exactly the same media interactions

No changes at half time.

Same half time team talk.

Exact same subs at same time.

Leeds 4 - 0 Cardiff

Leeds 1 - 3 Cardiff

Leeds 2 - 2 Cardiff

Leeds 2 - 0 Cardiff

Leeds 0 - 3 Cardiff

Leeds 0 - 2 Cardiff

Leeds 2 - 2 Cardiff

Leeds 2 - 4 Cardiff

Results all over the shop, and I watched a fair few games in Extended or Full.

Players I'd asked not to take long shots pinging them in from 30 yards all the time.

Players I'd asked to mark a small player marking a tall.

Players I'd asked to play short balls banging old school Wimbledon route one "'ave it" balls down the pitch

Target man who I'd asked to stay central running down the wings to cross for a tiny poacher

Goalkeeper completely refusing to pass short

and on, and on, and on...

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i could run tests if you really wanted, i have saves with AC Milan, Barcelona, Aberdeen, Cambridge and Luton, i have not had this issue with any of them, but then i dont try and aim all goal kicks down the middle of the pitch, centre backs will usually always be better in the air than my midfield or strikers so i dont see the point wasting posession like that.

Its hardly bragging saying you have dominated with the best team and best players in the world!! I'm no genius at this game but there are somethings that are simple to sort, this for me is one of them.

Open. Up. Your. Game.

Watch a goal kick. Watch what the defensive line does. If it moves as shown in the pictures posted, it is an flaw in the match engine. If not, it is a flaw in my tactics. Post your results. Go ahead, prove me wrong. Or keep spouting off like a 12 year old that you dont see it and therefore it doesnt exist.

Oh yeah, try playing with slow CBs.

And posting your results from paying with the best team in the world is hardly evidence of tactical issues.

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i dont get it, did you expect the results to be exactly the same everytime? Do you expect your players to follow everything you say exactly?

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None of this is quite as irritating as the inability of FM2010 to retain set piece instructions when changes are made to tactics.

That's the real killer for me, and is still hasn't been solved...

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i dont get it, did you expect the results to be exactly the same everytime? Do you expect your players to follow everything you say exactly?

No, but you'd expect some level of consistency, or at least the results to be skewed one way or another, otherwise what are the tactics doing?

4 wins for Cardiff, 2 for Leeds, 2 draws.

Maybe a better example would be to try this on two teams who a bit less equally matched, actually.

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I think the major problem here is that the defense doesn't seam to react to opposition players at all as long as the opposition doesn't have the ball.

A point where you can totally see this is if you play zonal marking and one of your fullbacks gets drawn out of the back 4, then you might see with some teams that their striker moves into the space offered through the FB moving forward but none of the CB will even slightly react to that until this player gets the ball and makes a run forward.

In reality you would see the CB that is closest to that striker close in on him to avoid him having all the space in the world and the DM would start covering the center but none of this happens as long as the player doesn't have the ball which imo is a problem that the match engine doesn't react to the position of certain players as long as they don't have the ball.

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I think you guys have gone off topic anyway, I thought this thread was about the goal kick problem, but you two seem to be having your own argument about the game in general. We've got enough of those threads!

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Open. Up. Your. Game.

Watch a goal kick. Watch what the defensive line does. If it moves as shown in the pictures posted, it is an flaw in the match engine. If not, it is a flaw in my tactics. Post your results. Go ahead, prove me wrong. Or keep spouting off like a 12 year old that you dont see it and therefore it doesnt exist.

Oh yeah, try playing with slow CBs.

And posting your results from paying with the best team in the world is hardly evidence of tactical issues.

defensive lines push up after a goal kick, thats the way it works, they do not sit deep from that situation, there is alot more than just the pace of the defender to think about, what should actually bother you is why your midfielder who you say is great in the air has been beaten from his own goal kick and why your keeper has only reached the half way line with his kick, i would look at that before blaming the defensive position, if your defenders are slow they would lose out in that situation anyway.

Name calling, great way to get your point across in a grown up mannor, well done.

I wasnt trying to show any tactical issues, you were.

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And why do players insist on defying the instructions they are given?

What are the tactics doing if:

-You have told a player to only pass short

-You have taken his creative freedom down to close to zero

-He is playing within a defensive framework

-He is playing in a team who have been asked to pass short

Then you sit and watch him bang balls numerous 40 yard balls down this wing

-You have specifically instructed NO players to take long shots

-Low creative freedom across team

-Again, defensive set up across whole team

Long shot, after long shot, after long shot.

Some inconsistency in results between equal teams is fine, but being blatantly ignored???

Kind of makes the whole process of defining tactics a bit futile.

May as well just buy the best players you can, whack a generic 4-4-2 on them and let them them get on with it...

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I think the major problem here is that the defense doesn't seam to react to opposition players at all as long as the opposition doesn't have the ball.

A point where you can totally see this is if you play zonal marking and one of your fullbacks gets drawn out of the back 4, then you might see with some teams that their striker moves into the space offered through the FB moving forward but none of the CB will even slightly react to that until this player gets the ball and makes a run forward.

In reality you would see the CB that is closest to that striker close in on him to avoid him having all the space in the world and the DM would start covering the center but none of this happens as long as the player doesn't have the ball which imo is a problem that the match engine doesn't react to the position of certain players as long as they don't have the ball.

I believe this is the core of the issue as well. The defensive line is based on the location of the ball, and ignores the opposition players. Becasue the opposition do not have the ball, their players do not react to the position of the ball. Thus the result as seen above.

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