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The Brazil Thread

masteR+_+

By masteR+_+,
in 2010 World Cup Forum

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PMLF

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is doni a definite? it'd be a real shame if gomes misses out, he's probably been one of the top 3 keepers in england this year. probably his best match of the year against arsenal today, some genuinely unbelievable saves.

I think Doni is 90% certain, Dunga is too loyal to his players and since Doni was the goalie in the Copa América title in 2007...he was also called up for the game against Ireland in March...

I think he should select Júlio César, Victor and Gomes, but only one of the last two will have a chance...

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iamjerome

iamjerome

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i can sort of respect that, i mean after all if doni's performed admirably before for him that must have developed trust plus maybe gomes has a reputation lingering still of his first few months here in england. i've grown to love gomes more than i thought i ever would so i'm just sympathising for him.

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i can sort of respect that, i mean after all if doni's performed admirably before for him that must have developed trust plus maybe gomes has a reputation lingering still of his first few months here in england. i've grown to love gomes more than i thought i ever would so i'm just sympathising for him.

Gomes has a much better rep in Brazil than Doni, as he was great in all his teams while Doni was rubbish here, and Dunga has called him up a couple of times after he went to England (he didn't play though, although before going to England he played a couple of games before Dunga found Doni).

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Yes, I have (I watched the game), and I praised him on the other thread (in the FF) too. I wonder if Dunga watched him though. When Brazil played against Ireland last month, Dunga called up Júlio César and Doni, and left Victor and Gomes out, so Dunga must not rate Gomes as high as most of us do.

Last time Victor (Gomes' main contender for a WC spot) was called up was in October 2009, while Gomes was called up for the last time in August 2009. It's pretty certain that one of these two will take the 3rd spot in the WC squad (I think Dunga will choose Gomes, although I want Victor), but only Dunga knows for sure what will happen...

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You mean this one?

According to that site, the "popular" team would be:

Júlio César

Victor

Rogério Ceni

Daniel Alves

Maicon

Lúcio

Juan

Luisão

Thiago Silva

André Santos

Michel Bastos

Felipe Melo

Gilberto Silva

Ramires

Hernanes

Kaká

Ronaldinho Gaúcho

Diego

Elano

Luís Fabiano

Robinho

Nilmar

Adriano

But I don't think many people have visited that site recently, and most just repeated Dunga's choices (hence why Doni being so high even though you'll struggle to find people who actually like him) as that part of the site was opened just after Dunga had called up the team for some game, so I wouldn't read much into it and a different poll at a different site could give very different results.

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20LEGEND

20LEGEND

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Felipe Melo used to be an attacking midfielder, it's not like he's just some Roy Keane. :D

But yeah, it was a bit of a joke, was trying to illustrate how poor our current midfield selection is. You could argue that Elano provides more flair than FM but he's pretty much just a set piece taker for Brazil.

Quite ignorant using Roy Keane here.

At his best he had more creativity and passing ability than Felipe Melo has in his little finger. Look beyond the reputation.

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You are far, far too critical of him Paulo! :D:p

Sometimes I exaggerate a bit :D, when he is good, he is useful for Brazil, but you can't count on that as he is almost always going to get carded and sometimes being given a red card too. He doesn't have the mental balance to play for Brazil. We need more reliable players than him, like Hernanes. Who is also a smarter, more complete, technically better player.

Luís Fabiano has a similar lack of mental balance but he hasn't caused much trouble in the last couple of years, and since he is a striker, he doesn't need to cut off other players' legs like Felipe Melo thinks DMs should do...

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docklanders

docklanders

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Sometimes I exaggerate a bit :D, when he is good, he is useful for Brazil, but you can't count on that as he is almost always going to get carded and sometimes being given a red card too. He doesn't have the mental balance to play for Brazil. We need more reliable players than him, like Hernanes. Who is also a smarter, more complete, technically better player.

Luís Fabiano has a similar lack of mental balance but he hasn't caused much trouble in the last couple of years, and since he is a striker, he doesn't need to cut off other players' legs like Felipe Melo thinks DMs should do...

You love and agree with me :cool:.

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docklanders

docklanders

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I changed to a different and better pic, both pics are from the Olympics in 2008.

I saw the first one, it didn't show up for me so had to delete my message :(.

hernanes-pela-selecao-olimpica-em-pequim-2008-1264632836849_300x230.jpg

At least you see part of his name on this one :). I'd do anything for Dunga to call him up, but i know he has as much chance as Pele :(.

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brett.spurs

brett.spurs

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http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-23825128-heurelho-gomes-finally-earns-some-respect.do

15-gomessave_415x423.jpg

Much improved: Heurelho Gomes punches clear during Tottenham's win over Arsenal

It’s a joke that Heurelho Gomes has been ridiculed for so long

So no one is laughing and making jokes about Heurelho Gomes now. His four saves in the last 10 minutes of the north London derby not only won him the man-of-the-match award but some respect throughout the country. The only problem is why has it taken so long?

Talk to any Tottenham fan and they will be saying Gomes has been playing like that for more than a year now but, until now, no one took them seriously. The reason? Well as a keeper, it's harder to lose a bad reputation than to be stripped of a good one.

Gomes was ridiculed in the opening months of his Spurs career. He made some high-profile blunders, none more so than when he fumbled a cross from Simon Davies into his own net, which helped gift Fulham a victory.

After a few months, though, he settled down in English football and in the second half of the campaign, seemed to be competing in a save-of-the-season competition all on his own.

Standard Sport revealed Guus Hiddink, who spent three months in charge of Chelsea last term, recommended the Brazil international as a possible purchase for the future.

The denial that followed from the club was predictable and understandable but whether you believed the story or not, it was an insult to Gomes that the suggestion of Chelsea's interest was met with such incredulity elsewhere.

Only weeks before he had kept Chelsea at bay with save after save in the closing minutes of Tottenham's 1-0 victory at White Hart Lane. In the eyes of the nation though he was still seen as a clown and blunder specialist despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

He has maintained those level of performances ever since, yet the credit eluded him until he did it in front of the television cameras during a crucial high-profile London derby the other night. The blinkers finally had to come off.

Contrast what has happened with Gomes to Chelsea's own Petr Cech. Unquestionably the best goalkeeper in the League for his first two seasons at Stamford Bridge but not the same since a knee from Stephen Hunt fractured his skull three years ago.

He is still a very good keeper but makes far more mistakes than he used to and is particularly vulnerable from crosses. Despite this you will still hear experts label him the best in the world.

It seems if you make a strong start people only want to remember the good times; conversely if you make a bad one like Gomes, they struggle to forgive or forget.

Finally, some sense from the ignorant Europeans :p

I know you must find it tedious me posting about your possible 3rd choice keeper so much, but everything there is so true.

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Finally, some sense from the ignorant Europeans

I know you must find it tedious me posting about your possible 3rd choice keeper so much, but everything there is so true.

Victor >>> Gomes :)

I wonder if the big English teams will start doing like the Italian ones and sign lots of Brazilian goalies too. I think is the best position of Brazilians nowadays, while we have only slightly above average strikers, no really brilliant playmakers and left-backs, and lots of average DMs, we have lots of great goalies.

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How Dunga hasn't noticed Julio Sergio is beyond me!

!

That video btw is just from this season...lol

Thankfully he hasn't, Júlio Sérgio is no better than a dozen other goalies we have in Brazil, not to mention some foreign-based ones, and he doesn't belong in the national team. In Brazil he couldn't establish himself in our Série A and always looked like a Série B level goalie.

Sure, he is in great form, but it's impossible to trust him in something like the World Cup or the national team in general.

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gaga_4_parma

gaga_4_parma

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Thankfully he hasn't, Júlio Sérgio is no better than a dozen other goalies we have in Brazil, not to mention some foreign-based ones, and he doesn't belong in the national team. In Brazil he couldn't establish himself in our Série A and always looked like a Série B level goalie.

Sure, he is in great form, but it's impossible to trust him in something like the World Cup or the national team in general.

I didn't mean 1st choice...more 2nd or 3rd choice...

Regardless Brazil has plenty of keepers to go around. :D

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I didn't mean 1st choice...more 2nd or 3rd choice...

Regardless Brazil has plenty of keepers to go around. :D

Even as 3rd choice it would be hard to have him. Of course this is not an excuse to have Doni as the 2nd choice either...

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Yes Doni is not very good tbh...

Yes, he is too average-ish, although at the national team he did well. But he was poor in Brazilian football (as like Júlio Sérgio) and so is hard to trust him.

But who cares really Julio Cesar is a rock...even motor accidents can't keep him away from a football field. :D

Yes, since he became the national team first goalie I think he never missed a match, which is a shame as I would have liked to see Brazil using other goalies as well, as we never know what can happen in the WC (ex: JC getting injured vs North Korea, etc...).

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Crazy_T

Crazy_T

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maybe júlio sérgio improved a lot since he left brazil, and got more experienced. he is doing well for roma and that's what matters, not his career back in brazil.

he shouldn't be in the squad though yeah, same goes for donieber.

I would take victor as #2, and even though I don't really trust gomes fully (despite his form) I'd have him as #3.

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maybe júlio sérgio improved a lot since he left brazil, and got more experienced. he is doing well for roma and that's what matters, not his career back in brazil.

Or maybe the Italian League makes him look better than he is, who knows, not worth risking losing games with a nobody like him.

he shouldn't be in the squad though yeah, same goes for donieber.

I would take victor as #2, and even though I don't really trust gomes fully (despite his form) I'd have him as #3.

A goalie who could be worth taking to the WC besides two out of JC/Victor/Gomes is Diego Alves, as it's likely he will fight for a place in the national team for 2014, so giving him some WC experience would prepare him for that (like it was done with JC in 2006, when he was the 3rd goalie behind Dida and Rogério Ceni).

Santos' goalie Felipe is also in a similar situation.

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Luís Fabiano was the Brazilian top goalscorer in the WC Quals (Suazo from Chile was the overall top goalscorer) and he was also the top goalscorer in the Confederations Cup but Nilmar scored a lot more than him in recent games (the last 10 or so), but since Nilmar will not be a first teamer (as Robinho starts in his position), he (Nilmar) won't have the chance to be Brazil's top goalscorer in the World Cup.

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Don't forget to include Maicon in the Dream Team, he is probably the Brazilian player that has more chances of shining in the WC, with Júlio César and Lúcio coming next. I say that because he is the best right-back alongside Daniel Alves (who is just a bench warmer at Brazil) and so there won't be much competition from rival teams, JC is one of the 3 best goalies and Lúcio has been doing great in recent times.

Kaká is a question mark, as if he is fit he can be important for Brazil, but there is a good chance he plays well below his best condition. And Luís Fabiano has a good record for Brazil, but there will be many other better strikers in this World Cup. Robinho will do well, I think, but not well enough to be included in a dream team.

Out of the others, Ramires and Nilmar have a good potential to surprise everyone, the first because he is very dynamic, and the latter because he is really fast and knows how to score goals and have good technical skills, so is probably the most complete striker the national team have at the moment.

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He is not well-known/rated in Brazil as he did nothing here, and we have other left-backs who are as good as or better than him like Gilberto and Roberto Carlos (both played in 2006), Filipe, Michel Bastos, Juan (the Flamengo one), André Santos, Kléber, and especially Marcelo (who is our best left-back in my opinion, but probably won't make it into the WC).

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Michel Bastos better/as good as Maxwell? André Santos too?

Why the Maxwell hate, because these two players (especially André Santos) aren't better than Maxwell.

They both are very good attacking and both have done relatively well (as no left-back has really done great after the 2006 WC) at the national team (and at their current and former clubs), and there is no Maxwell hate, he is essentially a nobody here.

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doubt gilberto is better than maxwell and marcelo is probably the best but he isn't good enough defensively.

it's also debatable whether most of them are better than maxwell.

there is just no stand out really.

As good as or better than. Some are better (Filipe and Marcelo, for example and probably a couple of others like Roberto Carlos when fit), some are of similar level. And there is Fábio Aurélio too, but he is always injured.

Maxwell is not bad at all, but Brazil don't really need him. And it's too late for him to get called up for the WC anyway.

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Flamengo's Bruno is an even better penalty saving goalie, so if it was to use someone for this purpose, Dunga would better use Bruno (who is a great goalie overall as well). :cool:

But I doubt any Brazilian goalie but Júlio César will play any mins in the WC.

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Standard liege!

Standard liege!

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I would like to see Gomes at the WC just for penalty shoout-outs. Slightly ironic posting this now as Man Utd scored two pens against him today but he is exceptional at saving penalties and could make the difference for Brazil.

Why would it matter though? It would be very unlikely for him to start, and they cant just bring him on in a PK shoot out.

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Gomes, if included in the squad, probably will be only the 3rd goalie, so even if JC gets injured or Dunga's decides to sub him for some reason, it will probably be Doni who will come in, not Gomes.

.
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