9.3.0 - has made a terrible game, even worse!

[gonzdons]

I have no objection to you 'airing your views'. I do, however, have an objection to blanket statements that have no basis in reality and in your face rudeness.

I made no blanket statements, and any that you consider as such, were quite clearly my own opinion, and cannot therefore be considered as such. It is a real shame that, you do not understand the English language better. And as for rudeness, you need to grow up mate, the fact is I have criticized, what is in my opinion, a poorly constructed game, and you don't like that fact - so get over it.

[pdbravo]

The obvious answer is levels of difficulty, some people want to focus on building their lower league team up into a world class side while others want to have the option of what diet their players should be on. With a little thought this isn't that hard to implement even with the current engine, and would also kill a few birds with one stone and help solve the press conference/team talk debacle.

[Ricky Riccardo]

To the OP, while you have an opinion its always best to think about what you are going to type before you do. The game might not be perfect for you and others, but its almost perfect for me (and others).

The people involved put alot of effort into it and atleast when they say "patch will be released on this date" it happens. Buy an EA game and see what good support they give, none. They are the real cancer of the gaming industry, SI are ok in my books and GODS when compared to EA.

[gonzdons]

The obvious answer is levels of difficulty, some people want to focus on building their lower league team up into a world class side while others want to have the option of what diet their players should be on. With a little thought this isn't that hard to implement even with the current engine, and would also kill a few birds with one stone and help solve the press conference/team talk debacle.

Indeed, it's clear to me at least, that you understand better how people want to play the game, than SI does!

[gonzdons]

To the OP, while you have an opinion its always best to think about what you are going to type before you do. The game might not be perfect for you and others, but its almost perfect for me (and others).

The people involved put alot of effort into it and atleast when they say "patch will be released on this date" it happens. Buy an EA game and see what good support they give, none. They are the real cancer of the gaming industry, SI are ok in my books and GODS when compared to EA.

I totally agree that there is no comparison between SI and EA - EA are a bit of a joke after all! But therein lies the crux of my argument, that SI have stagnated, whilst other game developers have moved things on - it's not exactly as if SI came up with the whole 3D pitch idea is it - even if they did implement it better. In my opinion, SI have not bothered to make the game better, and have instead concentrated on making it more realistic, which is absolutely not the same thing.

[Ricky Riccardo]

I totally agree that there is no comparison between SI and EA - EA are a bit of a joke after all! But therein lies the crux of my argument, that SI have stagnated, whilst other game developers have moved things on - it's not exactly as if SI came up with the whole 3D pitch idea is it - even if they did implement it better. In my opinion, SI have not bothered to make the game better, and have instead concentrated on making it more realistic, which is absolutely not the same thing.

I disagree, EA are the biggest joke, not a bit, the biggest.

Whats not to like about the 3d Match Engine, its great and even better with the new patch.

I agree with you on the realism, but then again I prefer it that way, so do many others, thats why we all come back. If I wanted an arcadey type football management game I'd go and buy one of the other generic ones available, but they never compare to FM.

One idea that could solve the problem, is in FM10 having 'Easy/Medium/Hard/Realistic' Modes to select from, this could help?

[La Furia Roja]

i guess the obvious questions are why are you playing it and why are you here, you obviously hate the game, its not easy enough for you and nothing anyone can provide can be good enough for you. If all the extra information was given to us in a nice little package how many pages should it be so you can be happy?

[gonzdons]

I disagree, EA are the biggest joke, not a bit, the biggest.

Whats not to like about the 3d Match Engine, its great and even better with the new patch.

I agree with you on the realism, but then again I prefer it that way, so do many others, thats why we all come back. If I wanted an arcadey type football management game I'd go and buy one of the other generic ones available, but they never compare to FM.

One idea that could solve the problem, is in FM10 having 'Easy/Medium/Hard/Realistic' Modes to select from, this could help?

I think that's not a bad idea at all, but I would like to see it being a bit more integrated than that. My idea, and it is only my idea, is that there should be a certain amount of scalability in the game. IE, if you want to define and refine everything to the nth detail, then you shpuld be able to do so, but if you're not so bothered, then there are certain things you should be able to turn off - eg, team talks, press conferences, etc.

Even then, there should be options for feedback from your staff on how your tactics are performing. The current guidance tells you absolutely nothing about if you are playing the wrong game for the team in question, and instead concentrates on the specifics, eg mark kerr is more used to closing down, than he is currently instructed to do so. I feel, that such minor detail should be within the intelligence of the manager, and it is these finite details that should ultimately make the difference. Therefore, these instructions should go, and instead be replaced with information regarding the teams style of play, etc. I find it annoying, for example, that I can find success with a particular team, playing either:

1) Quick, direct, defensive, counter attack football, or;

2) Slow, short, attacking, expansive football; and get know clues as to how I am going wrong, when results are bad.

Basically, you have no clue what football to play, as any is equally effective, or equally poor.

[La Furia Roja]

do watch the matches or just highlights? I find that you can generllay see where teams are making breaks, or where you are constantly losing the ball etc then you can see how to rectify it. Eg. if your defenders are constantly having intercepts on there passes near your box, set them to play it long more often etc etc

[gonzdons]

i guess the obvious questions are why are you playing it and why are you here, you obviously hate the game, its not easy enough for you and nothing anyone can provide can be good enough for you. If all the extra information was given to us in a nice little package how many pages should it be so you can be happy?

Yeah thanks for your gormless input - you are about as useful as my ASSMAN! If you don't like what I have to say, then get lost - no-one will miss what you have to say.. especially as it is so banal and pointless.. again very much like my ASSMAN.. are you an ASSMAN??

[PaulC]

Bottom line, Mr "gonzdons", if you dont like the game now you may never do.

But then the point made by many about the tactical interface is I think a valid one and one we have definitely taken on board.

What we wont do is dumb the game down, or add difficulty levels. For me the choice of team is your difficulty level.

[Wayne\'o]

i dont think all people will enjoy the game, i think we just have to make the best of whats on offer, lets face it, its not that bad really is it!

And to the main topic rant, IRL winger do all the running and will tire quicker so they are always replaced as are most strikers.

[whale]

There is no need to be so offensive - to pick out some words at random - 'gormless', 'pathetic', the latter being aimed at one of the authors of the TT&F guide, which is supposed to be extremely helpful to people like yourself struggling with the game.

The game is now more realistic, but sales figures and this forum would indicate that the vast majority of players are happy with this direction. As to your original points, there is nothing wrong with closing down from my perspective with the latest patch, just take into account fitness etc as other posters have commented.

The game is not easy. However, using nothing more than logic, observation and a modicum of real football knowledge from watching and playing - I have managed to come up with a tactical approach which has led to success and enjoyment with teams from both ends of the spectrum.

But clearly the game cannot be all things to all people - perhaps you need to let go, and accept that FM is not something you enjoy any more?

[Ricky Riccardo]

I think that's not a bad idea at all, but I would like to see it being a bit more integrated than that. My idea, and it is only my idea, is that there should be a certain amount of scalability in the game. IE, if you want to define and refine everything to the nth detail, then you shpuld be able to do so, but if you're not so bothered, then there are certain things you should be able to turn off - eg, team talks, press conferences, etc.

Yeah thats how Id see it if they did implement something like that, for example a 'level of detail' on difficulty, I was just giving a basic idea.

However, we both don't know how hard this would be to implement and what effect it would have on the game.

Even then, there should be options for feedback from your staff on how your tactics are performing. The current guidance tells you absolutely nothing about if you are playing the wrong game for the team in question, and instead concentrates on the specifics, eg mark kerr is more used to closing down, than he is currently instructed to do so. I feel, that such minor detail should be within the intelligence of the manager, and it is these finite details that should ultimately make the difference. Therefore, these instructions should go, and instead be replaced with information regarding the teams style of play, etc. I find it annoying, for example, that I can find success with a particular team, playing either:.

1) Quick, direct, defensive, counter attack football, or;

2) Slow, short, attacking, expansive football; and get know clues as to how I am going wrong, when results are bad.

Basically, you have no clue what football to play, as any is equally effective, or equally poor

The thing is, I don't think you should look at what your Assistant says and follow it to a T. I don't ever listen to my assistant, he is there for training basically. He will tell you more about how he wants the team to play and his style of coaching, not yours. So sack him and find an assistant that is more your style. For starters, I could care less if player A isnt used to working his arse off in the game, he will adapt eventually and if he doesn't there is no point keeping him because he does not fit in your tactic.

But there could be more feedback, it would be nice, but then again it would make it too easy.

[La Furia Roja]

Yeah thanks for your gormless input - you are about as useful as my ASSMAN! If you don't like what I have to say, then get lost - no-one will miss what you have to say.. especially as it is so banal and pointless.. again very much like my ASSMAN.. are you an ASSMAN??

Ha ASSMAN, lol made me chuckle.

Back to the point, what have you actually done about fixing your tactics before you had your rant?

[lukegjpotter]

Dude take a chill pill.

FM is about the pursuit of perfection.

Its about taking a team you love to the top.

[backpackant]

Wow, these posts are getting boring. Can't possibly read every post in here, so I'll just address the main concern that most people seem to be having with FM09.

Namely, the thinking that you have to be a tactical genius is just plain ridiculous.

After struggling to create a decent tactic for a few seasons (as Newcastle) I have now played seasons 2011 - 2014 with a slightly tweaked 4-4-2 from the default menu, having signed appropriate players for those positions. EG, in the "default 4-4-2 attack" the centre-right midfielder has a free role, dribble often, forward runs often. The tactic also uses a playmaker. Therefore, I have two CM or AMCs that have high passing, creativity, dribbling, anticipation and stamina. To me this is just plain intuitive (Axel Witsel has just taken over from van der Vaart on my game). The only time you need to download others' tactics is if you want to win the league every season using using ME exploits and demand that your team - whether it is Harrogate Town, Burnley, Cork City or Man United - win everything every season.

I haven't won the league yet with Newcastle but came within 4 points last season and have been in the CL places 4 years running - an achievement that the Newcastle fans and board would realistically be delighted with.

9.2.0 had its problems, but was more than playable. 9.3.0 is so much better and actually looks like proper football. When you have a lot of players set to "often" forward runs they tire more quickly. I won't go into too much detail with my tactics, but essentially I have a lot of forward runs in the first half, then start the second half more conservatively. Unless I STARTED conservatively, in which case I'll knock it up a notch - all depends on who I'm playing. But the principle remains the same: 4-4-2, slightly tweaked.

[elsgouro]

From a casual player's point of view, someone who cannot spend more than an hour or so every day, the game is not so difficult nor time consuming. I mean, with just a few advice from the "experts", within less than an hour you can create a descent tactic (and one or two slightly tweaked versions of it) and have some success. I'm not talking about 100% domination, but enough to make you enjoy the game and progress to the next level.

Personaly I found the "simplicity tactical guide" (or something like this) to be both helpfull and time-saving, but at the same time allowing you to add your own ideas in the tactics you use. If someone has more time to spend on the game, I'm sure that can do much better.

[Lobaeux]

Sorry, but you're on crack! Not only was 9.2 a great game, 9.3 is even better!

[Suttface]

FM is after all, supposed to be fun and enjoyable, but for the vast majority of users, this game has now become and absolute pain in the arse to play!

I love comments like this- "the vast majority of users". On what scientific study do you base that assumption? For the record, I think 9.3.0 has been a triumph but I guess that would make me a "fanboy". Yawn.

[backpackant]

I love comments like this- "the vast majority of users". On what scientific study do you base that assumption? For the record, I think 9.3.0 has been a triumph but I guess that would make me a "fanboy". Yawn.

The "vast majority" is the small vocal number of people on here that a handful of gamers listen to. Anyone with a different view is a fanboy. If you offer advice on how to get better results, you are a "fanboy" because certain people want to play the game the way they want to play the game. Unfortunately they can't do that - a bit like "wanting" to play COD4 with a machete and saying the game is broken because you can't win by doing so.

[Suttface]

The "vast majority" is the small vocal number of people on here that a handful of gamers listen to. Anyone with a different view is a fanboy. If you offer advice on how to get better results, you are a "fanboy" because certain people want to play the game the way they want to play the game. Unfortunately they can't do that - a bit like "wanting" to play COD4 with a machete and saying the game is broken because you can't win by doing so.

I agree. If people don't like FM 2009 as it is now (post patch 9.3.0) then it simply is not the game for them.

[Misodoctakleidist]

A lot people seem to be saying that you should be able to have success without having to spend hours reading the tactics forum. Well I've never set foot in the tactics forum, and I'm doing just fine.

I can sort of understand the people who want to buy eleven awesome players and see them rip teams apart without having to worry about tactics. Perhaps a better solution than difficulty levels would be to allow people to hire an assistant manager who takes care of tactics and training. There would be a tick box in Team Settings saying something like "let assistant take care of tactics." When it's ticked it would present the user with a simplified tactics screen.

So for example, you could tell him the basic shape you want to play (4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1 etc.) and maybe some basic aspects of playing style (possession or counter-attack, attacking or defensive etc.) then he does the rest. The effectiveness of the tactic he devises would depend on his ability, and how closely it matches his preferred style.

[russ the womble]

I think that's not a bad idea at all, but I would like to see it being a bit more integrated than that. My idea, and it is only my idea, is that there should be a certain amount of scalability in the game. IE, if you want to define and refine everything to the nth detail, then you shpuld be able to do so, but if you're not so bothered, then there are certain things you should be able to turn off - eg, team talks, press conferences, etc.

You can already tell your assistant manager to take charge of press conferences and team talks. Just find a decent Assistant Manager.

Even then, there should be options for feedback from your staff on how your tactics are performing. The current guidance tells you absolutely nothing about if you are playing the wrong game for the team in question, and instead concentrates on the specifics, eg mark kerr is more used to closing down, than he is currently instructed to do so. I feel, that such minor detail should be within the intelligence of the manager, and it is these finite details that should ultimately make the difference. Therefore, these instructions should go, and instead be replaced with information regarding the teams style of play, etc. I find it annoying, for example, that I can find success with a particular team, playing either:

The Assistant gives feed back on tactics, ie The team should play more direct. The rest can be worked out by watching matches or trying/testing.

As a lot have said, you can do equally well using the default formations. I read T&TF and then devised my own formation. My mate had not read it and was using a slightly tweaked 4-4-2 and was beating me in the league, so you cna be perfectly successful using the defaults.

Just to be clear - NO USER SHOULD HAVE TO RESULT TO EXTERNAL SOURCES TO BE ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME, AND CURRENTLY NEARLY EVERY USER IN THE KNOW ALREADY DOES (TT&F, etc) AND THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW, HAVE GIVEN UP PLAYING THE GAME, ALREADY.

How do you know if nearly every user 'in the know' (I assume you mean those that have worked out how to make successful tactics) has read the TT&F forum or manual? The majority of FM gamers have probably not even registered on the forum and many are probably totally unaware of it. Maybe a lot of these have worked out the tactics in their spare time and see no need to read up elsewhere? What yuo are suggesting is only those that have read through TT&F are the only ones left playing, which is obviously not the case. Only 80,000 views for the TT&F thread which suggests that less than (probably) 1% have felt the need to resort to it.

[aiston]

It has made a great game even better in my opinion, never has an FM/CM game have I went past 10 seasons before getting bored, I am STILL in my first career game. I am in my 22nd season and still having fun and wondering what I can win next.

"And to all you "fanboy" idiots out there, FM is supposed to be fun - which it is not, unless you have no actual life to lead of course" - You show yourself up as a fool there. Dont tell people it is not fun, they have their own opinions and well calling people fanboys because they like the game, realy is there any need??

"I feel that I shouldn't have to spend hours/days/weeks" - You clearly are not very good, I spent 10 minutes making my tactic and have not needed to change it in 22 seasons.

[Peter G]

It's a game and these moments happen in real life. Look at Paul Scholes, hadn't scored since August then scored a 30-yarder against Barcelona.

[Rupal]

You can already tell your assistant manager to take charge of press conferences and team talks. Just find a decent Assistant Manager.

Unfortunately, even a relatively good assman can mess it up. And there have been threads which suggest that it is a mistake to use the same team talk more than twice in a row. They tend to keep using 'You can win tonight'. So it's not a totally safe option to let the assman do them.

Team talks and press conferences need some work to make them less of a chore and more logical.

[Loversleaper]

The "vast majority" is the small vocal number of people on here that a handful of gamers listen to. Anyone with a different view is a fanboy. If you offer advice on how to get better results, you are a "fanboy" because certain people want to play the game the way they want to play the game. Unfortunately they can't do that - a bit like "wanting" to play COD4 with a machete and saying the game is broken because you can't win by doing so.

Imagine one of the 'fan-boys' turn the tables just for once and make a post/thread like so:

"to all the boo-boys, it sounds like reading 20 pages is going to take years and your village elders should get together and discuss the shocking level of schooling in this present time. If you hate the game for years then why do you even play? Are you here just to make confrontations with the first person you meet perposely? Games on the market have a 'new' audience and they are not designed for specific people so cry me a river. You want us all to sit and watch a two colored line move back and forth in front of our eyes? How selfish of the 'fan-boys' so lets make the game how you want to have it..."

Now that wouldn't be fair now would it...

[russ the womble]

Unfortunately, even a relatively good assman can mess it up. And there have been threads which suggest that it is a mistake to use the same team talk more than twice in a row. They tend to keep using 'You can win tonight'. So it's not a totally safe option to let the assman do them.

Team talks and press conferences need some work to make them less of a chore and more logical.

I've only used the Ass Man to carry out Press Conferences - to be fair he does a fair job (as long as your assistant manager is decent). I normally seek his advice on team talks but change it half the time. I don't know how he works out if you take his advice all the time.

However both options are there if people don't want to take part in such antics.

[armann99]

I disagree, EA are the biggest joke, not a bit, the biggest.

Whats not to like about the 3d Match Engine, its great and even better with the new patch.

I agree with you on the realism, but then again I prefer it that way, so do many others, thats why we all come back. If I wanted an arcadey type football management game I'd go and buy one of the other generic ones available, but they never compare to FM.

One idea that could solve the problem, is in FM10 having 'Easy/Medium/Hard/Realistic' Modes to select from, this could help?

The day Si implement a "Easy/Medium/Hard/Realistic' Modes thats the day I will stop playing the game, sound really bad in my ears. I really enjoy playing the game as it is today and with the latest patch i love it.

I have had my tactics ruined everytime there has been a new patch but I have always been able to make a new tactic.

But what I do agree with is the you should not have to come to these forums and read 50 pages in the T&TF to make a decent/good tactic. And it should be a little more user friendly.

[meomao]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I want just to say one thing about the OP position. I do agree that the game is not improved since the CM/FM split or at least since FM 07. And I do agree that with every iteration of the franchise, the game looks more and more like a sim and less like a proper management game.

In my opinion the problem is not difficulty. A game like that should be difficult. The problem is that in the pursuit of realism, the creator of the game seems to forget playability from time to time. So, it's not a problem of difficulty. A game like that should reward planning, thinking and good strategy. But realism and complexity obviously isn't difficulty or depth. Quite, the opposite imho.

The problem is that the game have become too complex (not too difficult) and has completely lost what make it great at first, simplicity.

Imho, all those problem could be resolved with a complete rework of the user interface that should become more informative, more responsive, easier to navigate and easier to use. The gameplay should be smoother while now it has become a pain in the arse imho.

For example, the fact that so many people used the scout tools like genie scout, offers a clear indication that the scout tools within the game weren't informative and easy enough to use and navigate.

My two cents, I just would like to have a simpler game, not an easier one.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

I've read TT&F and although some of it is relevent I find it mainly describing the World of real-life football and not necessarily the game. There is a difference and a big one.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

Sorry forgot to add that biggest complaint about the game is that it is becoming more and more un-user friendly. A lot could be done to improve this.

In fact if SI pay me minimum wage for a week I'll pop into SI towers and give them a hand.

[wwfan]

Only 80,000 views for the TT&F thread which suggests that less than (probably) 1% have felt the need to resort to it.

Closer to 1/4 of a million if you look through all the sites hosting it, but still a point well made.

[Wakers]

I find it stupid that gonz got a red card after hershie called him an idiot for making a valid post. Good moderating that.

[Matt ex SEGA]

He didn't get a red card, he got an infraction for the language he used.

Your further opinion on the moderation is not required.

[Wakers]

Look at Hershie's first post in this thread. I've gotten red cards for much less than that.

This place is just..

This game is turning into an EA franchise and another SEGA failure - and now the boards are going down the pan too because you can't express valid dislikes about the game without the moderators being bias against those who do.

[aiston]

Look at Hershie's first post in this thread. I've gotten red cards for much less than that.

This place is just..

This game is turning into an EA franchise and another SEGA failure - and now the boards are going down the pan too because you can't express valid dislikes about the game without the moderators being bias against those who do.

If you express dislikes by swearing etc, you deserve to be warned.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Valid dislike of the game is more than acceptable - there are many, many constructively critical threads which are fine.

There are also forum rules to be followed - swearing and abuse are not acceptable. gonzdons got a warning - he's still here and able to post.

[wwfan]

The only reason I haven't carded him more than once myself is because Matt intervened and he apologised.

He's called people fanboy idiots, morons, pathetic, gormless, notwithstanding the foul language. We don't hand out cards if people criticise the game. We do for obnoxious behaviour.

As Matt said, openly questioning moderation won't do you any good whatsoever, so I suggest you desist.

[Nebu]

Stop failing and coming here whining about how you fail.

The game is awesome, has always been and the latest patch has made some nice improvements to the engine. Sure it is a work in progress, but it'll get there.

[Wakers]

Stop failing and coming here whining about how you fail.

The game is awesome, has always been and the latest patch has made some nice improvements to the engine. Sure it is a work in progress, but it'll get there.

so this post doesn't deserve a card? Are there no forum rules about incitement?

[Nebu]

Im quite sure however, that continuing to discuss moderation, which btw this thread now seems to be about(?), is a no no, as stated by the moderator just in the post above me, mr. forum-policeman-wakers.

[Wakers]

Look Nebu, if people get carded for calling someone else fanboys and what not, then surely cards need to be handed out for trying to incite others as well. I would pm a mod about this but there's 0 chance they would respond.

[drunkpunk]

I personally like the in depth direction the game takes although a couple of years ago I really struggled with FM07. I recently went back to trying CM 01/02 and I just found it so unplayable (I'd like to try CM2 again at some point). All the things I have taken for granted in FM (especially 08 and 09) just weren't there. I can understand why a number of users can give up on games because the game does take a lot longer to get started. I have just started my career game with Arsenal in 9.3.0 after playing around with a few clubs and it took me at least 3 hours to get through pre-season (I'm managing 1st, reserve and u18 so that adds more time) and that probably is a little on the long time, but in the end I know the effort I put into setting up the game will be rewarding in the long run.

The game should be difficult and have no "this always works" solutions like I found older CM's to have. Again, personally I want the game to challenge me but not drive me to the point of insanity (yes I've thrown my mouse about in the past). However, I don't believe difficulty settings/levels are a way to go at all. What their should be (and to a small extent is) is aids to help you, especially at the beginning. We already have this with Assistant Manager feedback in games. This is by no means perfect but is a step in what I believe to be the right direction. More of these kinds of aids could be put into the game so that you can use it if you want or need it. For instance something like the "Add New Manager" wizard to help with say setting up tactics, more to help with setting up the style of play than anything else. With a few progress on the 3D styles of play will become more important (who wants boring long-ball, keeper lumping it to the striker style of play, lol). Certainly a more user friendly tactics screen would be welcome.

[backpackant]

so this post doesn't deserve a card? Are there no forum rules about incitement?

Doesn't look abusive to me. Where's the abuse/swearing?

[Wakers]

Doesn't look abusive to me. Where's the abuse/swearing?

Where did i say there was?

His post was clearly looking to incite people, particularly the OP.

[DanGLiverpool]

I don't get what the big deal is about tactics. I failed with loads of tactics designed by forumers, then I went to the standard 4-3-3 attacking, and am getting good success out of it. The preloaded tactics are better than you think.

[backpackant]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I want just to say one thing about the OP position. I do agree that the game is not improved since the CM/FM split or at least since FM 07. And I do agree that with every iteration of the franchise, the game looks more and more like a sim and less like a proper management game.

In my opinion the problem is not difficulty. A game like that should be difficult. The problem is that in the pursuit of realism, the creator of the game seems to forget playability from time to time. So, it's not a problem of difficulty. A game like that should reward planning, thinking and good strategy. But realism and complexity obviously isn't difficulty or depth. Quite, the opposite imho.

The problem is that the game have become too complex (not too difficult) and has completely lost what make it great at first, simplicity.

Imho, all those problem could be resolved with a complete rework of the user interface that should become more informative, more responsive, easier to navigate and easier to use. The gameplay should be smoother while now it has become a pain in the arse imho.

For example, the fact that so many people used the scout tools like genie scout, offers a clear indication that the scout tools within the game weren't informative and easy enough to use and navigate.

My two cents, I just would like to have a simpler game, not an easier one.

Now why can't more people discuss the game in this manner?

Although I personally find the game fairly simple, I can concede that if I were a first-time user then it would take a long, long time to get used to the game. As someone who has bought the game every year, it's more of a plug-and-play-and-experiment experience for me. Basically, checking out the new features, then fiddling with tactics, and then I'm away. I'll report bugs and upload examples, and watch the game improve as the patches arrive.

But that's what the T&TF is for. As the game gets more complex, the more instructions are needed. And the fans who have been with the game for a long time are largely satisfied - otherwise you'd have a lot more complaints on the forums.

If the game doesn't evolve it'll die. 3D was a huge advance, and this itteration was always going to take a while to bed in. 9.3.0 is a huge step up in quality IMO, and I expect FM10 will be too.

[backpackant]

Where did i say there was?

His post was clearly looking to incite people, particularly the OP.

You said it deserves a card. I don't think it was incitement either - the OP can't win and he's whining about it being the game's fault, or some such implication.

Plenty of people do well with simple tactics, using intuitive common sense (as I detailed in an earlier post in this thread).

Too many posts on this forum reflect today's society - "It's not my fault I've failed; someone else is to blame."

I said it was getting boring, although I suppose that is directed at all posts of this nature rather than the OP specifically, and I stand by that.