anagain Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Considering very few spectators, there may not be no need for research, possible give them a pre set PA, and possibly make regens just for the sake of havig that team playable... bit of a long shot like.... FMs overriding quality and what has attracted people time and time again is that it has the best database of any football management sim. Putting that research a step backwards just for the sake of a lower league would be pointless. I'd like to see these leagues as much as anyone, but Si BHA's comments have made me realise the reality is that it just won't work at the moment. Sacrificing the depth of the database for a little more doesn't keep with the great name that FM has made for itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campbell1892 Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Yeah thats what i was thinking about highlands! No promotion... pointless... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jase19 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 i absolutely love bringing the most obscure team possible up. it's always my main game in FM and i love the challenge. granted there are many people who prefer to play with the big clubs and just run that until they're blue in the face... but there are just as many people who like to play the tiny clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeLikeFM Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 as i have said earlier CM are doing it and i bet there researsh will be a bit pantsish it would be a good addition to the game if done properly but its hard the A Championship in ireland should be in it more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATW Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 The no promotion issue might also be why Ter broke the game. Go Ter!! Ah but who need promotion. Stand alone league As for Ter, well I hear he can break the unbreakable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon07 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 personally I would love it to start in the Ryman league! Same! Ryman League Division One South With my beloved Sittingbourne! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campbell1892 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 Its nice to see there is a demand, i new it...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Its nice to see there is a demand, i new it...! A handful of people on the forum hardly constitutes a demand. I've seen just as many people asking for more leagues in Africa. I've seen just as many people asking for the Highland League in Scotland. I've seen just as many people asking for the Cypriot league. I've seen just as many people asking for leagues from the Middle East. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campbell1892 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 whats your point? its all in demand, im talking about england as i live here, and someone mentioned 57% of customers are english, that was a pointless post if you dont have anything useful to say dont say it please what you said has already been said thanks This website is a feedback station amongst other things, this is a discussion. They are seperate discussions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 How the hell can you miss the point I'm making? You said "it's nice to see there is a demand". My response was demonstrating that a few people posting to say they like the idea of adding your leagues does not constitute demand. I also provided examples of other leagues that people have demanded in at least equal numbers, plenty of whom will have been from the UK. There is my point. Sorry if you can't understand it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atonement Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 how do SI currently decide what leagues theyre going to add? if they introduced african leagues, would the sales of the game increase in africa? im guessing its based on hitting the target fanbase, maybe they should include a link on the game each year that takes the user (if they wanted to) to a monthly poll where questions like this could be asked but basically, the overwhelming majority of people who currently play british lower league management would be in favour of an another tier i reckon anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlo116 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Before they add more british leagues they need to add more asian leagues such as the j-league and the Uzbek league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalimyr Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Yeah thats what i was thinking about highlands! No promotion... pointless...Oh no, a team from the Highland league will never be in the Champions League, so there can't possibly be any good in adding it Just because you can't take a team from the Highland league or the East of Scotland league or whatever up into the SPL doesn't make it pointless at all. Personally I'd consider it better and more realistic for me to start at a club in one of these leagues, then success in the league and cup can provide opportunities to move on and get a job at a 'better' club. In older FMs I had all the UK leagues active for this very reason - I'd start off unemployed and usually end up getting an offer to manage a team in the lowest Northern Irish league. I'd take them as far as I could (and wanted), then I'd probably get an offer to manage a side in England or Scotland and could cross the Irish Sea and continue climbing the ladder in a new country. The Northern Irish league is hardly the pinnacle of footballing brilliance, but it can still quite easily provide some form of challenge and obviously provides a stepping stone to leagues/clubs with better reputations, and the same can be said of the Highland league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny!! Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 That would be fantastic for personal reasons. I have been dying to play as Sheffield FC for many years now, and if the Northern Premier League is added, then Sheffield FC can be promoted into the game ala Dafuge's challenge!! That would be the best! I have chosen to have a look at Championship Manager 09 this year just because of the added leagues in the English system. I don't know if they have promotion/relegation from these leagues though, I hope so. Playing as Sheffield FC would just be the most awesome FM experience in history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crpls Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I can't imagine they'd add the leagues and not put in promotion to the leagues above them. Why not just use a swap file and put Sheffield in the Blue Square N/S? Before they add more british leagues they need to add more asian leagues such as the j-league They can't add the J-League back unless Konami lose the exclusive license. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanchflower1 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I'd love to be able to play lower down, would be great to be able to take a local team to the dizzy heights I also love to play lower divisions. The challenge is great!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanchflower1 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 That would be fantastic for personal reasons. I have been dying to play as Sheffield FC for many years now, and if the Northern Premier League is added, then Sheffield FC can be promoted into the game ala Dafuge's challenge!! That would be the best!I have chosen to have a look at Championship Manager 09 this year just because of the added leagues in the English system. I don't know if they have promotion/relegation from these leagues though, I hope so. Playing as Sheffield FC would just be the most awesome FM experience in history. I agree with you on this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SucksAtFM Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 would be better expanding other countries imo. there are enough in england already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny!! Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Why not just use a swap file and put Sheffield in the Blue Square N/S? I have done this in personal games, but if I go into the Dafuge's Challenge with them I wouldn't be accepted because I'm a "cheating database editor" haha. I really want to do Dafuge's challenge with Sheffield FC! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathxxx Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I'm sure that any additional leagues will come with time. After all, it's not long ago SI said they were'nt going to go down the 3D route, yet here we are not that long after, with a 3D match engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I'm sure that any additional leagues will come with time. After all, it's not long ago SI said they were'nt going to go down the 3D route, yet here we are not that long after, with a 3D match engine. Maybe. But SI have stated not only that there won't be any new leagues or countries in the forseeable future, but also that they consider the current amount to be sufficient. On a personal level, I'd like the next tier in England to be added, as well as several other nations. But I don't think the demand has been so high that it's going to change SI's minds and make them commit to a pooloads more research any time soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atonement Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Maybe. But SI have stated not only that there won't be any new leagues or countries in the forseeable future, but also that they consider the current amount to be sufficient. On a personal level, I'd like the next tier in England to be added, as well as several other nations. But I don't think the demand has been so high that it's going to change SI's minds and make them commit to a pooloads more research any time soon. would the research really need to extend much beyond emailing/phoning each club and asking for a squad list of names and details - im sure every club would jump at the chance to provide details to SI if it meant theyd be in football manager as for players ability, this could just be done to reflect the standings of each team as opposed to meticulously watching players Xs jumping ability or what not i doubt many people who currently play LLM really watch much of it or would know whether a players stats is realistic or not Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 What you've just proposed is a Championship Manager level of lower league research. I could be wrong, but I suspect most FM players, especially serious LLMers, would want SI to research things thoroughly. What you're proposing is a half-hearted effort at research in order to add one extra tier in England on the basis of a few people saying they'd quite like it on the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Havok Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I really don't think that any more leagues need to be added to England. This is because a) other leagues that have a better quality of play should be added first e.g. Egypt, Middle Eastern Leagues and b) my local team is already in the game in the BSN (Vauxhall) but only just Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atonement Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 What you've just proposed is a Championship Manager level of lower league research. I could be wrong, but I suspect most FM players, especially serious LLMers, would want SI to research things thoroughly. What you're proposing is a half-hearted effort at research in order to add one extra tier in England on the basis of a few people saying they'd quite like it on the forum. like i say, i bet the vast majority of people who play LLM do not actually follow it in real life also, players stats in the games are pretty much based on team reputation - ive read that its done to keep the league table realistic at the end of the season an average player that plays for a big club in real life (someone like fletcher or bendtner) will always get marked up by SI, where as a good player who plays for a lesser team will always get marked down (shay given off the top of my head) so i dont think they need to be too prissy about this apparent research Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Just because people don't follow it in real life doesn't mean they wouldn't demand a strong, thorough level of research. It wouldn't be hard to find out that SI had cut corners in their research in order to deliver an extra tier of English football, for which a large demand hasn't even been proven. Football Manager strives to be the most realistic management experience out there. It does not strive to be a game that takes advantage of customers' ignorance of a certain aspects in order to be able to cut corners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 like i say, i bet the vast majority of people who play LLM do not actually follow it in real lifealso, players stats in the games are pretty much based on team reputation - ive read that its done to keep the league table realistic at the end of the season an average player that plays for a big club in real life (someone like fletcher or bendtner) will always get marked up by SI, where as a good player who plays for a lesser team will always get marked down (shay given off the top of my head) so i dont think they need to be too prissy about this apparent research It doesn't work like that at all. Back up players at the top four clubs are rated as starters for the relegation battlers iirc, unless they don't deserve such a rating. Every researcher thinks that they're rating their players realistically. SI very rarely change a player's attributes from what a researcher suggests. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campbell1892 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 If you dont like the idea thats fine just dont keep knocking everyone elses opinions i guess you dont play lower league management much and would it really hurt you to see a lower tier, would u refuse to buy the game just because of that, because SI "cut-corners" at the 7th or 8th tier of football... if you dont want it anyways why would you care, there is an option to start this game with no real players at all if you didnt notice.... And i agree they should have other countries tiers aswell but thats not this discussion thats not my interest. Someone else can discuss that on another thread. Keep this discussion calm, thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Why do people always do this? Somebody disagrees with their opinion, so they start criticising them for knocking it. There's a debate going on. I'm well within my rights to argue with points I don't agree with. I shall continue to do so. Also, you are not a moderator. It is not for you to tell people to "keep this discussion calm". And anyway, the discussion is perfectly calm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campbell1892 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Share Posted February 21, 2009 forget it i guess im being to defensive... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atonement Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 And anyway, the discussion is perfectly calm. its not, im literally seething Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike7077 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 its not, im literally seething Then you should probably heed Campbell1892's request and keep it calm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby_McDonald Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 What you've just proposed is a Championship Manager level of lower league research. I could be wrong, but I suspect most FM players, especially serious LLMers, would want SI to research things thoroughly. What you're proposing is a half-hearted effort at research in order to add one extra tier in England on the basis of a few people saying they'd quite like it on the forum. Mike speaks the truth. While LLMers would love extra leagues, it's not at the expense of realism. SI wouldn't include extra leagues if they aren't fully researched anyway, which is a big reason why their database is better than all their competitors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby_McDonald Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 like i say, i bet the vast majority of people who play LLM do not actually follow it in real life You lose your bet. Here are four examples of LLMers who have a level of interest in their local lower league team. Myself - Newcastle Town mkus - Weston-super-Mare iamthequinn - Tiverton Town iajafer - Haddington Athletic I could dig out more if I wanted to... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby_McDonald Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Keep this discussion calm, thanks You seem to be the one that isn't staying calm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkerman Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hmm I have stated I would like the leagues added - but I already buy the game and it would not be a deal breaker. However I have to say I would expect it to be done correctly - as a Sutton supporter I would be really annoyed if our best player was rated lower than a fringe player. One problem would be many of the players at this level don't have contracts and move about a bit or even more annoying dual registrations......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campbell1892 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 well considering i said forget it im being to defensive i think thats calm.... back to the discussion thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atonement Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 when people say that its only a vocal minority on this forum that is disatisfied with the game, everyone says thats not a wide enough a cross section to form any sort of evaluation so i hardly think listing four people that follow the lower leagues on this forum is anything like conclusive if the players stats arent doctored to keep teams finishing where they should do at the end of the season (eg. shay given apparently worse than the likes of almunia and gomes and whats the betting emile heskeys stats rocket up in the next patch now that hes a villa player) then maybe new researchers are required personally im sympathetic to SI having to alter players stats to make sure the clubs all end up where they should do come the end of the season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobby_McDonald Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 so i hardly think listing four people that follow the lower leagues on this forum is anything like conclusive That was just four people who have an active interest in their local lower league team. No LLMer would be playing LLM at all if they did not possess some level of interest in the lower leagues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atonement Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 No LLMer would be playing LLM at all if they did not possess some level of interest in the lower leagues. oh, rite you are then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlp071 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I would rather like to see Spanish D liga (it's divided to 15 leagues), and Italian Serie D and Russian 2nd(or 3rd), before going down any further in England. Not all of us prefer to play in England as our main careers in FM (i only use it for testing purposes). Turkish 3rd league would be great to , but that's really asking impossible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dexta200 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I'd love to be able to play lower down, would be great to be able to take a local team to the dizzy heights I'm the same! Would be great to see! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancer890 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 If SI have plans to go below BSN/BSS, I hope they consider adding the United Soccer Leagues. In the informal poll done a while back determining the general population of Football Managers on the forums, the UK won in a landslide, followed by North America, and beat out the likes of Central and Eastern Europe (well the last check in the thread anyways). There are supporters towards soccer in Canada and the US, and relatively bug-free second tier would be nice. SI even has a game specified titled for the market I live in! And I think the USL was in the game before... I will, of course, respect whatever decision SI take in terms of addition of leagues, or none at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ the womble Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I can see a point for it, as even though other countries are under-represented, I'd have thought a lot of FM users would be in Britain and have a reasonable knowledge of the leagues. I like playing from the lowest league and working my way up, but would it not be difficult to arrange Geography-wise.By this I mean that the botttom three BSS/BSN go down, but say all three were from the midlands, then the teams coming up from the lower leagues would not directly replace those teams going down, which I'd have thought may provide an unnecessary amount of work to accomodate in the game. The teams changing between the Conference and Conference North/South already have to be allocated Geographically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB68 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I feel that, while it would be a good thing, if researched properly. It would be better to expand some of the other leagues first. The English leagues, for me anyway, are the least enjoyable leagues to play in. I'd like to see the German leagues come on-board (wishful thinking??) and more depth in Eastern Europe. Also love to see some of the African Leagues included, i.e.- Egypt, Morocco, Nigeria, etc.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualitystreet Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 BSN/BSS is "Step 2" of the English football non league system. Taking Fm down to Step 3 would constitute another 3 leagues: Ryman Premier League (Isthmanian), British Gas Business Premier League (Southern) and Unibond Premier League (Northern). This is another 66 teams, some of which have FM researchers but mostly that don't.Following on from si BHA's point, the research would then need to go as far as Step 4. This is a further 6 leagues (Ryman/BGB/Unibond sponsored leagues - 2 from North/South/Isthmanian) which is due next season to include 136 teams. Most of whom will have an average gate struggling to break 3 fugures. Finding researchers for these teams would be problematic at best. I must admit, as a researcher of one of the teams at Step 3 i would love FM to allow management at that next level down, but realistically its not worth the effort required and i'll have to hope that my team simply get promoted to the BSN for my work to be important to the game instead! If anyone is interested in the English non-league to this level then this is an excellent site (with which i have no allegance other than i use it to help my research): http://www.tonykempster.co.uk/ Hope people find this post useful Shandiar I want to see the Carlsburg South West Peninsular Division One East and if I don't get get it I am going to uninstall the whole game and take it back to the shop On a Serious note, I would like to see the Lithuanian A Lyga and perhaps the Highland league. I have never played leagues like Singapore (and am unlikely to either) It would be good to be able to get rid of this league when you install the game and save space on my my already under pressure hard drive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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