Football Manager to get in-game ads

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by phnompenhandy:

I'd be interested to see if there is a break-down in age between those in favour of and against any form if in-game advertising for FM. My hunch is that most kids won't have any critical nous since they've never known anything different.

I think that's a bit unfair, to suggest that people for are young and against are more mature. I hate intrusive advertising. Anything that gets in the way of the experience (banner ads and especially interstitial ads on the internet, ad breaks on the commercial TV channels, the unskippable bits at the start of DVDs, junk mail, spam, most adverts in magazines e.t.c.) I am very much against.

Hell, even most ads that don't improve the situation and exist only to make money for the relevant parties I am against. An example would be product placement in films set in the future, like The Island or I, Robot.

But as has been said before, don't you agree that it would enhance the realism of the game if you could get your stadium sponsored, or have a shirt sponsor in the non-licensed leagues, like pretty much every team in England does, would add to the realism.

Of course, this could all be done with fictional companies ("The board announce that they have struck a deal with Acme Corporation to become the new shirt sponsor from 08/09 until 12/13"), but A, this would detract slightly from realism. B, it would arguably take more time from the development side of the team than arranging real-life sponsors would. And C, if this extra money allows SI to bring on extra developers or whatever, then why not?

I mean, it's not like SI are big fat cat developers like EA, who will get away with as much advertising as they can to increase their annual revenue to the next billion dollars, you know? If the majority of the community detests what they do with end up doing with it, then I'm sure they'll reconsider it for the next version.

But until we know more about what specifically this will entail, it's a bit premature to denounce it as our favourite developer turning to capitalism.

[Pangaea]

Originally posted by Ter:

Is that not a bit of an extreme reaction? It's not like the game is going to be plastered with adverts everywhere. Maybe give it a chance to see how it is going to be implemented before writing it off.

Like Miles pointed out, they would appear in situations where you would expect to see them in real life. The way it's planned I actually think it will add a lot to the game but we'll be talking about that sort of stuff more when we reveal more details about the next Football Manager title.

No. It's not. There are commercials and almost no matter where you turn these days. You simply can't get away from the ****. I absolutely hate it from the bottom of my soul. I am muting or changing channels on the TV when it's on. I use Firefox so I can tune out the ****. If needed I'm facing a freakin' wall on the tube to get away from the stuff!

So this is not a minor issue. Even if the price was lowered due to the extra income from ads (which won't happen in a million years btw!), I probably wouldn't buy it because of the frustration.

Unless it's possible to turn this completely off I will not buy FM2009. It's that simple.

[Synergy6]

Originally posted by DarthInsinuate:

Seems like a worthy bit of business for the FML user, since it'll be a subscription service and keep the price down.

Err, no, it won't. It may help Sega's bottom line, but the subscription price won't change one iota.

[therubberducky]

I dont particularly want FM to be downloading ads onto my gameby stealth. Will there be an option to turn this off?

[DS]

OK ads in the game, fair enough. So I assume FM09 will be free then?

[turn it upto 11]

the league and tournemant sponsership would have to be fm live wouldnt it, as in made up leagues, surely a couple of seasons in it couldnt become the league cup couldnt be cup the tesco cup, some sort of legal issues surely. if it was shirt sponsership, and all the brands had a certain rep. and the bigger the team becomes the bigger sponser you get this would be decent.

as long as it is a secondry feature, something in the backgroun thats adds more deth i say

[Miles Jacobson]

For those who say that they won't buy the game if it has advertising in it, there has been advertising in our games for years.

If you play in the English league, for example, many of the news items are branded with local and national newspapers, with hyperlinks.

Manager man's jacket has been branded in the past in different countries.

Sponsors names have been used on shirts for teams where we have licenses, and the licensor has requested it.

The same for tournaments too, such as the Coca Cola Championship.

Synergy6 - that's not true. All revenues and potential revenues were taken into account when working out the pricing on FML.

[Nomis07]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

But, from an FM level, it won't slow the game down,

That's all i'm interested in and don't really see what all the fuss is about.

Advertising wouldn't make me want to buy anything unless Miles intends to include an advert for an automatic undresser that will undress my wife at the flick of a switch. Actually is there any chance of ignoring the prospect of a 3d match representation forever and creating an automatic undresser?

[Synergy6]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

Synergy6 - that's not true. All revenues and potential revenues were taken into account when working out the pricing on FML.

Which means one of two things.

1) This "addition" has already been implemented and fixed, making this pussyfooting around with "we'll reveal more" rather sneaky, and this thread rather pointless. We're getting more ads, like it or lump it.

2) The FML (and FM09) prices have been set, but the final decision on adverts hasn't. In which case, I was correct...

[Miles Jacobson]

Synergy6 - you are confusing FM for FML. The user spoke about FML, and how it would save money for the user, which it does.

I've also stated clearly that this is more of an FML thing than an FM thing, and that we're not talking about FM until August. Those on the beta of FML already know how some of it will work, as it's there in the beta.

As for point 2) what adverts go into the game doesn't shape the financial model at all. There is only a certain amount of inventory to sell, and the price of said inventory is set. Business models and business planning are based on a guarenteed percentage of revenues, based on said models. So you're not correct at all - unless, of course, you know more than me about the business planning and P&L's for FML, which I've been heavily involved for the last 4 years +

[Mike7077]

Personally, all I'm concerned about is whether these adverts will impact on gameplay at all. I know Ter explained that we won't be subjected to videos of kids drinking Coke before each match, but will these adverts affect loading times and can we expect flashing logos and bright banners from varous companies hawking their wares while we play the game?

I sincerely hope not...

[turn it upto 11]

Originally posted by Mike7077:

Personally, all I'm concerned about is whether these adverts will impact on gameplay at all. I know Ter explained that we won't be subjected to videos of kids drinking Coke before each match, but will these adverts affect loading times and can we expect flashing logos and bright banners from varous companies hawking their wares while we play the game?

I sincerely hope not...

i cant think of any gae that is really blatanty hawking thier wares, billboards in fifa and pro evo but it is only fitting in and making it realsitic. can you provide me with an example?

[Mike7077]

Nope, I can't. FM is the only game I play of any description, so I wouldn't know.

But all I was saying is that I hope it won't affect the speed at which the game loads and processes.

[Nomis07]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

But, from an FM level, it won't slow the game down,

I'm the same Mike7077, I couldn't care less as long as it doesn't affect the actual gaming and according to Miles it won't. This thread seems like a storm in a teacup to me.

[Synergy6]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

Synergy6 - you are confusing FM for FML. The user spoke about FML, and how it would save money for the user, which it does.

I disagree. As you've pointed out, the FML price is set. If, for example, the ads were found to be buggy and so removed, the FML price would not increase. As Sega is not selling a raw resource, there is no reason why it couldn't absorb a small income fall without passing on the change to customers.

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

As for point 2) what adverts go into the game doesn't shape the financial model at all. There is only a certain amount of inventory to sell, and the price of said inventory is set. Business models and business planning are based on a guarenteed percentage of revenues, based on said models. So you're not correct at all - unless, of course, you know more than me about the business planning and P&L's for FML, which I've been heavily involved for the last 4 years +

I am aware that the details of FM make it, compared to most games at least, an economically relatively inelastic good; due in large part to high brand loyalty. But my knowledge of your exact business model is rather irrelevant here, and I think you misunderstood my overall point. I don't care if you choose to advertise cars, washing up powder, or short shorts with pink polka-dots. I was merely pointing out that: a) I would not purchase such a product, b) the decisions were obviously far more concrete than had been inferred, and c) to say this will save people money rests on nebulous data, if not downright fantasy. Good day to you, and thank you for the information provided.

[pain-giver]

Im sorry, but that comment of alot of poo from Synergy, if the ads were removed, then Sega would have to think about the price they charge, maybe if the game is popular enough then they wouldnt need to do anything, but if the product fails to meet expectations saleswise then they would perhaps need to inrease the price

"Industry figures suggest that such advertisement could increase profits for publishers by an extra $1 to $2 per game unit sold - a significant increase over the current $5 to $6 profit per unit. Publishers see this revenue stream as a way to offset growing game development costs, which are estimated to rise up to $20 million per title for a 7th generation console."

[T-Bag]

If they are dynamic in FM and using an internet connection we should be able to block them. I certainly wont be allowing FM access to the internet if it's going to be to download new adverts !

I'd put up with it on FML but certainly not on FM. Maybe if we got some proper stadium graphics with advertising boards it would be okay but what are the odds on a significant graphical update like that?

[dudester]

Originally posted by T-Bag:

If they are dynamic in FM and using an internet connection we should be able to block them. I certainly wont be allowing FM access to the internet if it's going to be to download new adverts !

I'd put up with it on FML but certainly not on FM. Maybe if we got some proper stadium graphics with advertising boards it would be okay but what are the odds on a significant graphical update like that?

Odds I would give you are very short FML has advertising boards so the ways and means to do it already exist.

[Spagbol]

FM08's opening week sales were down on 07 which was down on 06, if only by a thousand or two.

The other issue is that the game shift's about 100,000 copies in it's opening seven days in the UK alone.

And what would you think was Sega's fastest selling title ever? Sonic 1? Sonic 2? Football Manager 2005? Yup, the latter. In it's opening week FM gets about 40% of all PC sales.

On the other hand though, I don't think people realise that SI spend sven figure sums on advertising and such.

SI's ins and outgoings are not small, but because they're not they can't think small either. They've come a long way from the early days, but as we all know they're not EA or Wunderluft and don't put out twenty games a year.

On another interesting note: The deal SI signed with Sega was originally due to expire in 2009. I think people forget that things change, I remember people being angsty when SI signed up with Sega. No one posting on here who doesn't work for SI knows what's going to happen in the future (and I bet even those working for SI don't know beyond a certain date), but if the sponsorship was in any way related with the expiration of said deal, I don't think anyone would hold it against SI.

I don't want to get into speculation about such things on message boards, because it will just go round in circles. But as much as I'd hate sponsorship in the game and hate talk of it enhancing the game itself, as long as it doesn't slow it up or effect gameplay, I'd put up with it to know we'd get a FM12 and that those working on the game could still pay their mortgages.

[T-Bag]

Been having a bit google about IGA and i'm not liking the sound of it at all.

Electronic Arts launched Battlefield 2142 yesterday and not too many people were happy to find spyware incorporated into the game. EA is confused why players have an issue with the sheet describing advertising spyware in their copy of Battlefield 2142 ... afterall, it's not like they didn't announce they were doing this months ago.

Joystiq asked EA to clarify this technology as there still seems to be some confusion (announcement be damned). An EA spokesperson stated, "It does not capture personal data such as cookies, account login detail, or surfing history." EA's statement to Joystiq can be found after the break.

In case you didn't read EA's letter in our post yesterday morning, please allow us to quote it to emphasize their clarification:

"IF YOU DO NOT WANT IGA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE OR TRANSMIT THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, DO NOT INSTALL OR PLAY THE SOFTWARE ON ANY PLATFORM THAT IS USED TO CONNECT TO THE INTERNET."

If you want to play Battlefield 2142 or Need for Speed: Carbon, you'll just have to accept the consequences. IGA Worldwide -- the company taking your IP address and placing the ads in the game -- states on their website that "70% of gamers [are] saying that advertisements inside computer and video games help improve the realism of the gaming experience."

Will we get a disclaimer like this with the game ?

http://www.joystiq.com/media/2006/10/bf2142-spyware-full.jpg

They did the adverts in Test Drive unlimited where you could unlock achievements be doing such wonderful tasks as buying Ben Sherman clothes. I liked that game a lot and it was totally out of place and pretty bloody stupid.

After the debacle of FM08 I would have hoped there would be more focus on releasing the game to a more acceptable standard than things like this.

[Manumoss]

I dont see why everyones complaining when you aint even seen this new feature yet. all si are trying to do is raise a bit more money and make the game more realistic. I for one would be happy to see something like this in the game especially if it meant everytime you got a new sponsor then it would change on your kit

I also think it would be a good touch to recommend a sponser to the board in a similar way to feeder clubs

[Miles Jacobson]

Synergy6 - the price for FML (which is still to be confirmed) is based on a profit and loss balance sheet which includes the monies from the in game advertising deal, so your point is moot. Your scenario doesn't exist. The monies raised from having ingame advertising have directly affected the profit levels, and therefore the price that we are able to release to the consumer has been directly affected. If you don't want to believe that, that's up to you - but I was sitting in all of the meetings when it was discussed, so think I know the facts of the matter.

You miss my overall point too - we've had advertising in our game, and around our game, for years. We now have an agnecy looking after it for us, and are able to use some of their technology to make it easier. So I don't see why your purchasing decision would change by us using an agency.

Spagbol - FM05 is not Sega's fastest selling title. It was, at the time, but is now either FM06 or 07 (I can't remember which). Our titles are 4 out of their top 5 though I think, but then we also have 3 in the top 5 fastest sellers of all time on PC, not just for Sega.

The deal we signed that would have run out in 2009 was superceeded when Sega bought SI in 2006, so the deal won't be expiring...

T-Bag - IGA did NOT "do" the adverts in Test Drive Unlimited. The developers did. IGA will not be "doing" the adverts in FM or FML. We will be. They are there to provide the technology, and sell the space that we make available.

A rhetorical question and my right to reply, so please don't answer (I, or any other user, can look through any of your posts to find out what you didnt' like about 08), but the "debacle" that you claim FM08 has been has so far been no.1 in the UK PC charts for 18 weeks. Disappointingly, it's recently dropped to no.2, being replaced by Age of Conan. If the release is such a debacle, I would doubt very much that word of mouth about it's quality would have helped it be globally our biggest selling game ever, and our highest weeks at no.1 with a FM title. Hardly a debacle in my opinion.

I don't like Big Macs, but I wouldn't describe them as a debacle. Millions of people love them.

[T-Bag]

Apologies then, I must have misunderstood.

http://www.igaworldwide.com/advertisers/casestudies/bensherman/

This implies they 'did' the adverts for it, but if it's just a case of technology then obviously that is a bit different.

[small Mac]

Anyone who has played a recent version of Pro Ev knows that advertising can easily be placed within a game without it being intrusive or affecting enjoyment (in fact, if done properly, it improves it imo). Why don't people wait to see how its implemented before they start complaining?

[Miles Jacobson]

T-Bag - as with any advertising company, we expect IGA to come to us with "opportunities", but it's our decision whether we do take them or not.

We will not do anything that would denegrate the game or appear out of situation, and IGA are well aware of that. I have no idea how they persuaded Atari to do that, but, like everything else with our games, we have final say on everything.

What I don't think everyone on here realises is that those of us who work on our games are also massive fans of our games, the majority of us from before we were involved at SI. We're not going to do anything that would ruin the game experience for ourselves!

[pouncer]

Surely the added money from adverts will give SI more freedom to spend on the game?

All good as long as it doesn't effect the game play, which I can't see how it will.

[furney89]

I cannot belive FM will have advertising.... they are just exploting large sales, and using it to make more money

its really a shame that there will be adverts, intrusive or not

the whole argument of "it already has adverts in with the kits and names of the leagues" is wrong, as it is not directed at the customer, and is part of the realism of the game

these adverts will be directed at the demographic that play the game, will obvious be sports related with possible skysports adverts, clothing, JJB etc etc

FM obviously is a huge seller, and creates profit (or SI wouldnt make the game e.g EHM, OOTP etc) so it will make more money by creating extra revenue through discrete adverts while the game loads, or is processing

thing is, we wont see a difference in the price, or get anything for being targetted

you'd like to think the money generated will go back into the game, making it a higher quality product, we'll have to see

i know it wont be intrusive,and it probebly won't be in your face all the time...but thats not the point....im dissapointed

[n0va]

furney i agree mate.

Hopefully the money generated will go back into the game in a positive way and maybe they will then be able to include a better soundpack so we dont have to pickup the pieces. .

I would like to see the ad's in fm09 aswell as fmlive. I worry that fmlive will get more concentration compared to fm09. The ads should be like billboards or something around the pitch. That members of FM Fansites can 'create' modifications to show other style of ads.

It is a step in the right direction. By 2010 i hope we see a BIG improvement in FM.

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

i cant think of any gae that is really blatanty hawking thier wares, billboards in fifa and pro evo but it is only fitting in and making it realsitic. can you provide me with an example?

I provided some earlier in the thread.

Skate has one or two entire missions sponsored by Adidas. For these missions, the regular in-game interface for mission-related messages is plastered with Adidas ads and changed to the Adidas colours, and upon completing those missions you, as a player, are actually encouraged (in text. In the mission debriefing) to go and buy specific Adidas shoes in real-life.

In Fight Night Round 3, the best trainer you can get for your boxer is the Burger King, who, ironically enough, increases your "heart" statistic every time you train with him.

And if you're merely looking for things that don't improve the game (as a common line used by in-game advertising agencies is that all in-game advertising improves the experience for a player), there's the Battlefield 2142 example that I mentioned, which has been brought up again recently. This game also includes code that records the way you look at any specific advertisement (for example the angle and distance you look at it from, the length of time you look at it for, e.t.c.), hence why they had to include the spyware notice.

All three of those are EA games, and I'm sure we can all guess at what convinced EA to include such obnoxious advertising.

I'm sure Atari were persuaded similarly.

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by furney89:

the whole argument of "it already has adverts in with the kits and names of the leagues" is wrong, as it is not directed at the customer, and is part of the realism of the game

The idea is, of course, that these new ads will also increase the realism of the game.

As has been stated repeatedly, we don't know anything about what the ads will actually be yet, other than that they will supposedly be in situ. Until we actually see these ads with our own eyes, we should trust that they will be implemented sensitively, just as the current ones are.

Let us not forget that unlike companies like EA and Atari, SI are well-known for having such a loyal fanbase, and I doubt they will screw their fanbase for the sake of a quick buck. It's not like their games sell poorly or anything, as Miles says.

[Miles Jacobson]

furney89 - you are missing a key word (or is it two) in the orignal quote from me.

"In situ".

For those who don't know what that means, it's a kind of abbreviation I guess for in situation. No adverts will appear (apart from the kind of things we already do with manager man branding, logos on the box etc) unless they would appear in that way in real life.

The money generated DOES go back into the games development. Just like profit has done historically - we're a pretty big team at SI now (around 45 full time, plus testers, researchers, translators, mods and all the other people who help make our games great) not including a lot of people working on the IT and customer service side of FML, who work for Sega, but many of whom are based in our offices.

Dreaded Walrus - all of those examples, as with the Atari one, sound horrible to me as a gamer, and that wouldn't be fitting for FM at all.

Your second post is absolutely spot on too. Nail-on-head and all that. We also wouldn't screw ourselves for a quick buck being fans of our own games....

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

Dreaded Walrus - all of those examples, as with the Atari one, sound horrible to me as a gamer, and that wouldn't be fitting for FM at all.

Exactly. They really are. It's a shame, as Skate is actually a brilliant game, but things like that leave a sour taste in the mouth.

Actually, a little bit of Googling just now brought up a thread on Neogaf regarding the ads. Read This post (which contains a copy of one of the "mission debriefing" screens I was talking about earlier.) and scroll down for images of the kind of billboards that are in the game, too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/cr_blah_blah/simpsonskate.jpg

[Themistofelis]

"Super goalie beats you once again? fear no more now you can buy viagra on 50% discount"

"12 players were called by the Olympic squad and you have to play the 4 opening season games without them? enlarge you know what and ease the frustration"

Ads suck on games.

[phnompenhandy]

Originally posted by Themistofelis:

"Super goalie beats you once again? fear no more now you can buy viagra on 50% discount"

"12 players were called by the Olympic squad and you have to play the 4 opening season games without them? enlarge you know what and ease the frustration"

Ads suck on games.

Unfortunately this post goes right off the point.

With one or two exceptions, I'm finding a lot of thoughtful, sensible discussion on what I feel to be a very important development.

I thank Miles for getting so involved in the thread despite him not yet assuaging my concerns. However, in time we'll all get to see what FML looks like and will have some substance to comment on re. FM09.

[turn it upto 11]

Originally posted by Dreaded Walrus:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

Dreaded Walrus - all of those examples, as with the Atari one, sound horrible to me as a gamer, and that wouldn't be fitting for FM at all.

Exactly. They really are. It's a shame, as Skate is actually a brilliant game, but things like that leave a sour taste in the mouth.

Actually, a little bit of Googling just now brought up a thread on Neogaf regarding the ads. Read This post (which contains a copy of one of the "mission debriefing" screens I was talking about earlier.) and scroll down for images of the kind of billboards that are in the game, too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/cr_blah_blah/simpsonskate.jpg

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that picture is awful. but EA have no soul.

[Ched]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

A rhetorical question and my right to reply, so please don't answer (I, or any other user, can look through any of your posts to find out what you didnt' like about 08), but the "debacle" that you claim FM08 has been has so far been no.1 in the UK PC charts for 18 weeks. Disappointingly, it's recently dropped to no.2, being replaced by Age of Conan. If the release is such a debacle, I would doubt very much that word of mouth about it's quality would have helped it be globally our biggest selling game ever, and our highest weeks at no.1 with a FM title. Hardly a debacle in my opinion.

I know you didn't ask for (no doubt didn't want) a reply to this point you made, but i just can't let it slide.

"it's sold well therefore it's not a debacle" is an argument so void of any logic that i can't believe you actually believe it yourself.

I'm sure anybody referring to the FM08 debacle is merely referring to 8.0.0 which if you consider it an acceptable release does make me mildly concerned. Obviously if 8.0.2 had come out of the box none of this would have happened - obviously there would still be negative posters, but i firmly believe the volume would have been significantly less.

If miles feels like responding, my final point on this (i don't want ot drag this thread OT) is a question to miles "Do you truly believe that FM08 was an acceptable release?" - if you can avoid referring to sales i would be a much ahppier person After all, bob the builder had a number one "hit" so sales is in no way a reflection of quality...

Anyway...On topic. If SI avoid whoreing themselves out like EA do (which from the posts of SI staff i firmly believe they will avoid) then this really won't be that much of an issue. No doubt like a new skin i'll initially dislike having ads wherever they are, but no doubt like a new skin i'll soon become engrossed in the rest of the game.

[Ched]

Please excuse typos and generally horrendous grammar "sales is" for god's sake!

[Fire Bracelet]

As highly editable as this game is concerning skins or such, shouldn't people be wondering if the ads can be edited out? Maybe someone already brought this up, I haven't read every post.

[chopper99]

There really are some right drama queens on these forums.

Firstly people need to understand that any decent company knows exactly what their target audience are and know exactly how to make the most money out of them. In the case of EA they churn out game after game and fork out money on licenses galore to make their games look fancy. I'm sure they have every intention of simply churning out as many games as possible while at the same time utilising advertising as much as possible, both by intensively advertising their own games to create a houshold brand name, and by selling advertising space to other companies. They know that if they do things in games that people really don't like it doesn't matter because they have so many different games to sell that one game flopping will not be a massive problem for them.

In the same way SI knows that they are a much smaller company who rely on a much smaller number of titles to generate their income. Because of this they will be well aware that good relations and support for their customers is very important. At the same time I'm sure they understand that doing something that a lot of their hardcore fanbase will hate is not a good move for them. Unlike EA, if thier flagship game flops it will hit them hard.

So that's why people should chill out and just see what happens. SI can't please everyone but they do take into account what their target customers do and do not like in games. So give them the benifit and just see what happens, why everyone suddenly assumes they'll just stick some horrible, intrusive adverts in the game I don't know.

And Ched, can I ask you something? Do you think that if these forums were not here people would notice as many 'problems' as they do with the game?

I genuinely believe that many of the 'problems' in the game are only seen by the masses once they've been noticed by someone else first. Before FM05 I didn't even bother patching the games. I'd never been to these forums so I never noticed all the so called bugs that people seem to find. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of areas where I'd like to see the game improve, but to call FM08 a debacle is just silly for me, especially after working in the games industry myself.

[Nomis07]

Originally posted by chopper99:

I genuinely believe that many of the 'problems' in the game are only seen by the masses once they've been noticed by someone else first. Before FM05 I didn't even bother patching the games. I'd never been to these forums so I never noticed all the so called bugs that people seem to find.

Exactly!!

I hadn't ever patched a game until FM08 and i'd sat oblivious to most problems for years. I even sat through 3 months of 8.0.0 thinking it was fine until I joined these forums, now I notice things and think they aren't right, but is that just because i've read it's not right

[jedclough]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

This is more something for FML for FM really.

But, from an FM level, it won't slow the game down, the ads will be able to be dynamic (as in changeable if someone is online) or static (if you aren't online when you play), and will be fully in-situ (as in, would only appear in situations where you would expect them to in real life).

We'll reveal more when we start talking about the new FM, but that won't be til August time.

Does this mean that regen facepaks will be shown eating a 'delicious' subway and the 2d pitch will be flanked by ads for London Pride. You could have penalty missers hitting the Hut as news items.

I'm not happy but I guess it's inevitable and I'm sure we'll get used to it

[Ched]

Originally posted by chopper99:

There really are some right drama queens on these forums.

Firstly people need to understand that any decent company knows exactly what their target audience are and know exactly how to make the most money out of them. In the case of EA they churn out game after game and fork out money on licenses galore to make their games look fancy. I'm sure they have every intention of simply churning out as many games as possible while at the same time utilising advertising as much as possible, both by intensively advertising their own games to create a houshold brand name, and by selling advertising space to other companies. They know that if they do things in games that people really don't like it doesn't matter because they have so many different games to sell that one game flopping will not be a massive problem for them.

In the same way SI knows that they are a much smaller company who rely on a much smaller number of titles to generate their income. Because of this they will be well aware that good relations and support for their customers is very important. At the same time I'm sure they understand that doing something that a lot of their hardcore fanbase will hate is not a good move for them. Unlike EA, if thier flagship game flops it will hit them hard.

So that's why people should chill out and just see what happens. SI can't please everyone but they do take into account what their target customers do and do not like in games. So give them the benifit and just see what happens, why everyone suddenly assumes they'll just stick some horrible, intrusive adverts in the game I don't know.

And Ched, can I ask you something? Do you think that if these forums were not here people would notice as many 'problems' as they do with the game?

I genuinely believe that many of the 'problems' in the game are only seen by the masses once they've been noticed by someone else first. Before FM05 I didn't even bother patching the games. I'd never been to these forums so I never noticed all the so called bugs that people seem to find. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of areas where I'd like to see the game improve, but to call FM08 a debacle is just silly for me, especially after working in the games industry myself.

With regard to the ads, i pretty much agree with you.

Regardless of the forum, i suspect getting sacked for over acheiving would have been noticed...

I know many problems would have been blown out of proportion by the forum, and while debacle may be a bit strong, FM08 was the first FM i couldn't play until the patch was released, and even then i didn't enjoy it until 8.0.2 - which is pretty much all the evidence i need to say that i felt it wasn't an acceptable release.

Anyway, i don't want to drag this further off topic - i just wanted to comment on miles' post, there are already a number of threads dedicated to extreme slagging of FM lol.

[chopper99]

Originally posted by Ched:

Regardless of the forum, i suspect getting sacked for over acheiving would have been noticed...

I know many problems would have been blown out of proportion by the forum, and while debacle may be a bit strong, FM08 was the first FM i couldn't play until the patch was released, and even then i didn't enjoy it until 8.0.2 - which is pretty much all the evidence i need to say that i felt it wasn't an acceptable release.

Fair point. Like you I don't want to drag this off topic so will agree to slightly disagree

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by jedclough:

Does this mean that regen facepaks will be shown eating a 'delicious' subway and the 2d pitch will be flanked by ads for London Pride. You could have penalty missers hitting the Hut as news items.

Of course not. As has been stated before, it is in situ ads. As has also been stated already, ads have been in the game for more than one iteration now, but because they are so well implemented, noone really complains about having a hyperlink to BBC Sport or Fourfourtwo in news items.

Likewise, noone would really complain if these new ads allow the likes of kit and stadium sponsorship.

Until we see the product for ourselves, we should trust that the developers are not outight lying to us when they say they handled it sensitively, you know?

Also, FWIW Chopper99, I agree with absolutely everything you say, apart from the bit about bugs. Just because a game has bugs that are not noticed by most until one person spots them does not mean those bugs are excusable. Indeed, as I'm sure you're aware, it is exactly that kind of bug that tends to get past dedicated QA testers at both developer and publisher (and Microsoft, on the 360). I too didn't patch my SI management games up until FM05, as before then I didn't even have the net, and you're right, I didn't spot the inadequacies, but I was likely still affected by them (as you say, when these things are pointed out, people often say "oh yeah I get that" and the like).

I would also agree with a few other users that 8.0.0 had lots of major issues affecting it, and the subsequent patches fixed many of those, as well as quite a few issues that had annoyed me for quite a few iterations of the game. Indeed, 8.0.2 was one of the most enjoyable versions of FM I've played, personally.

But now I'm just going off on a tangent.

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by Dreaded Walrus:

Until we see the product for ourselves, we should trust that the developers are not outright lying to us when they say they handled it sensitively, you know?

Can we have an edit post button in FM09, plz?

[fabioke]

I don't see the problem as long as it is realistic. Like shirtsponsors or friendly tournaments sponsored by a real company...

[Dreaded Walrus]

Originally posted by fabioke:

friendly tournaments sponsored by a real company...

That's actually something noone's mentioned yet, and would be pretty excellent.

I'm not sure how these things work in real life, but I imagine such a thing would be great in the game.

You might have arranged an upcoming tournament with some of the big names of European football, and Adidas might want to put their name to the tournament.

Or maybe your board could announce that they have arranged a friendly tournament to be sponsored by a company (as I imagine that this is something that is handled more by the board than the manager in real life).

[Miles Jacobson]

Ched - to answer your "was it an acceptable release" question - yes, albeit it one with a few issues that affected some users. As do the vast majority of people who are playing the game quite happily, not even knowing that a patch exists. And you've also admitted that the word "debacle" was a bit strong - that is the word that offended me.

Anyway - that subject is not for this thread, and the debate needs to stop, or else the thread will close.

[Ched]

Originally posted by Miles Jacobson:

Ched - to answer your "was it an acceptable release" question - yes, albeit it one with a few issues that affected some users. As do the vast majority of people who are playing the game quite happily, not even knowing that a patch exists. And you've also admitted that the word "debacle" was a bit strong - that is the word that offended me.

Anyway - that subject is not for this thread, and the debate needs to stop, or else the thread will close.

Ok, fair enough. I'll behave

[Dreaded Walrus]

While it is not strictly FM-related, this is related to things mentioned in this thread, and particularly pertinent.

IGA takes charge of PS3 in-game ads.

The quote of choice from the article though (which also focusses on how EA uses IGA), is this bit, which quite contradicts more than a couple of earlier posts in this thread.

"In order to combat that stigma [against in-game ads], EA and IGA promise to keep everything appropriate and in character, so as not to clash with the game environment or interfere with your immersion."

They said the exact same thing a couple of years ago, but look at Skate, BF2142, Fight Night Round 3, and so on...

In a way it is related to this thread, as Miles earlier made a comment that could suggest that IGA were interested in doing similar things with SI, but SI didn't share the same enthusiasm. (I'd like to say that Miles didn't explicitly say that, so it's just my interpretation and guesswork, and I could be entirely wrong, and IGA may have made no such suggestions to SI)