Solid defending - is it possible?

[Kraftwerk]

I'm Spurs and my issue here is my LB (Shaw). His reaction once we give the ball away, he just stands watching their player as 4 players sprint past him down his side of the pitch. Is there anyway that you can get your full backs to get forward (when necessary) but also get back quickly on defence? If they aren't doing what Shaw did in the video then they're rushing out of position and closing down unnecessarily and the ball will get passed into the space they've vacated, crossed in and usually result in a goal.

I want my back four to be solid defensively, no rushing out of defence or letting men run past them. What's the way to go about it?

[Smarf]

If you find out let me know before i put my fist through my laptop!

[RTHerringbone]

That doesn't look so bad. The bottom line is, it's a counter attack.

If you don't commit bodies forward, then you'll be anaemic in attack.

If you do, then you increase the likelihood of being countered.

The sweet spot, of course, is finding the balance, and if you can detail your whole setup, then we may be able to spot if anything fundamental is out of kilter.

[HTC]

Even if he finds balance the AIs Shots/CCCs ratio will be much better than his and he wont be solid.

[RTHerringbone]

Even if he finds balance the AIs Shots/CCCs ratio will be much better than his and he wont be solid.

Which is, of course, nonsense - cheers for that

[Luizinho]

Which is, of course, nonsense - cheers for that

Does 'Play Narrower' help defensively by allowing less space for the opposition to exploit?

[RTHerringbone]

Does 'Play Narrower' help defensively by allowing less space for the opposition to exploit?

Possibly, but as well as narrowing your width, it will also focus passing through the middle, which isn't always a great idea.

[HTC]

Which is, of course, nonsense - cheers for that

Its a Fact but anyway.........

[RTHerringbone]

Its a Fact but anyway.........

It really isn't, but please stop trying to pretend that it is.

[llama3]

Does 'Play Narrower' help defensively by allowing less space for the opposition to exploit?

Possibly, but as well as narrowing your width, it will also focus passing through the middle, which isn't always a great idea.

It can also leave space wide for opponents to swing in the crosses - potentially also a problem.

[HTC]

It really isn't, but please stop trying to pretend that it is.

tons of pics like this one.

My last post on this. You are working it for 15. Appreciate your work, really.

Kraftwerk i am working on something if it continue being that good i will post details (Mourinho type formation and philosophy)

[RTHerringbone]

tons of pics like this one.

Did you ever consider the possibility that your opponents apparent efficiency was actually a consequence of your own inefficiency?

I'm tired of images like these. They are prevalent in the General Discussion thread where people sometimes don't understand the nuances of the game.

It is fine to not understand those subtleties, but something else to paint at as a deficiency of the ME, when in reality it could well be a user deficiency.

FM is not a hard game, but users who struggle tend to build it into a beast that it isn't.

[pezza96]

tons of pics like this one.

My last post on this. You are working it for 15. Appreciate your work, really.

Kraftwerk i am working on something if it continue being that good i will post details (Mourinho type formation and philosophy)

teams win games whilst having less shots than the opposition quite often, if you win a game 1-0 with 1 shot all game, are you going to blame the AI, or pat yourself on the back for a sound tactical set up?

[bleventozturk]

I just won a game 1-0, where I had 4 shots in total where the opposition had 15. Especially towards the end of the game, with me leading 1-0, they started getting desperate and you could tell by the number of hopeless shots they were taking, and that's how they reached 15, whereas 3 of my 4 shots were real goal chances, with my players patiently circling the ball around waiting for an opportunity. It just happens both ways. I criticize FM for many reasons, but this one here is just biased observation when people think such a result happens only to AI's favor. Not true, not at all.

About having a solid defense:

Sometimes small changes in your tactics result in significant improvements, or sometimes the other way around. And that's one of my complaints about ME - it is way too sensitive. And I have the perfect example. In my last season I used the same formation in every match, a symmetric 4-1-3-2. The two side MC's were BBM's (I am not going to talk about the rest because the only change I am going to mention was to the BBM's instructions). I was scoring plenty of goals, but conceding somewhat more than I'd prefer (around 1.1 per game, and I really like it when I concede less than 1.0 per game). Towards the end of the season, I've added 'mark tighter' to my BBM's PI's, and it made a huge difference. This little change 'luckily' coped extremely well with the rest of my defensive setup, and all of a sudden my opponents can't find any opening any more - almost none! I say luckily, because a lot of times the changes I make are experimental, just to see what will happen. In my last 3 matches I've conceded 0 goals all of a sudden, winning all three 1-0, and that's the way I like to win - by completely shutting down the opposition. You may say that 3 matches is not enough sample, which is true. However, it's not just I didn't concede any goals, but the difference is so visible when I watched those games in detail. It gives me further confidence that two of my three opponents in these games are some of the most goal scoring teams in the league.

So my answer is, yes, it is absolutely possible to have solid defense in FM14.

[ajsr1982]

I was going to start a new thread but I think I’ll drop this here instead. I have endured a very frustrating time recently at the number of goals I’ve been conceding, so I’m looking for a few tips from others who may have succeeded where I seem to be failing miserably.

I’m not going to upload a tactic here, as I’ve tried several different things to attempt to combat my defensive inadequacies. Instead, I’m going to highlight problem areas and what I’ve done to try to rectify things. Do I have issues with the current version of the match engine? Well, yes, but let’s put that to one side for now in the name of being civil to one another. I remember Cleon quoting something along the lines of the following a while back:

‘Your tactics should be based on sound footballing decisions. As soon as you start trying to play the match engine, you’re not going to succeed.’

I consider this to be excellent advice and I’ve always tried to adhere to it. I should add that I’ve read the ‘big three’ guides. Whilst I have veered away from them in places, I have always based my tactics upon those principles.

Ok, the back story. I was having a reasonable amount of success with a young Aston Villa side. Promotion from the Championship and an improbable FA Cup win was followed by three years in succession where I finished 10th. I then stumbled upon the following set up and managed a 6th placed finish.

GK – D

WB – A

CD – D

CD – D

FB – S

DM – D

DLP – S (in the CM stratum)

AP – A (in the CM stratum)

IF – A

IF – A

F9 – S

This was using an attacking mentality and a very fluid system.

There are some obvious flaws with this. The right hand side has two players with an attack duty, and my front three are very symmetrical. I was quite happy to let this slide however to begin with, as I was creating a serious amount of very good chances, and scoring plenty of goals. There was the odd 4-3, but there were games where I blew teams out of the water. A 4-0 win at Anfield was probably the highlight.

I was pretty pleased with my 6th placed finish, but there were obvious deficiencies with my tactics that I felt were holding me back. The above tactic would tear through a standard 4-4-2 with consummate ease, but it was next to useless against any formation with players in the AMR/AML positions. A 4-4-2 with high wingers, our old friend 4-2-3-1 Denmark, or indeed a mirror of my own formation all caused me serious problems. On top of that, despite often hammering the weaker teams, I couldn’t buy a win against any team with better players than mine. I should point out that this does not necessarily mean ‘teams above me in the table’. In my game, Chelsea have been struggling in mid-table for a couple of seasons, despite having a pretty good squad. However, I simply cannot beat them. Of course, they have better players (though not by much) but if Norwich, Reading and Watford can regularly see them off, why can’t I?

The above paragraph sums up much of my frustrations. My formation is seemingly utterly incapable of dealing with players in the AML/AMR positions. The number of times I see my full backs (who are amongst the best in the league) standing there idly watching a winger run in behind them as the ball is slotted between CB and FB is nothing short of infuriating. Tottenham, a team of similar ability to my own, are impossible to beat with their 4-2-3-1 Denmark. I can’t remember the last time they didn’t put at least three past me, with the majority of their goals arriving in this fashion.

What can be done about this? I’ve tried various things, replaying certain games over and over to see what works. Switching both full backs to a defensive duty in attempt to keep the back four in line helped somewhat. I noticed that with attack/support duties, the full backs sit a yard or so higher than the centre backs, which allows the wingers to spring the offside trap. However, this completely abandons any prospect of my full backs attacking, which is a fundamental part of my approach. This is, of course, an unsatisfactory solution.

Another approach I tried was to adopt a flat back five, set up as follows.

WB – A

CD – X

CD – C

CD – X

WB – A

Our old enemy, symmetry, is present, but this actually worked quite well. My full backs were able to attack from deep, whilst sitting into a flat back five and restricting the lateral spaces in between my defenders. I used this to good effect against Man Utd, losing only 1-0. However, with the extra man in defence, I was able to offer little or no attacking threat, with my midfield swamped. I think I managed to muster just two shots. I generally restricted United to shooting from distance, but eventually one of them went in. Also, the marked change in formation lead to a loss of tactical familiarity. The question I have is: Should I really have to resort to this sort of measure just to stop the opposition? In my book, this is once again an unsatisfactory solution.

I’ve tried various other things to combat this. Various changes of mentality and fluidity, as well as pulling my AMR/AML players back to the ML/MR positions. None of these approaches worked. The two methods I wrote about in detail seemed to work the best, but at the expense of having no attacking threat whatsoever. The eagle-eyed amongst you will have noticed that I actually play a reasonably similar formation to many of the systems I’m struggling with. Against a 4-4-2 I benefit from the ball between CB and FB quite a lot, but the formations I’ve mentioned seem to be capable of completely nullifying my attacking threat, which I find hard to understand (and if I’m honest, hard to accept).

Fundamentally, I am finding my inability to find a balance between attack and defence very frustrating. If I set up defensively, the match is like the Alamo, where I concede 25 shots, mustering just two of my own, and limp to a 1-0 or 2-0 defeat (if I’m lucky). If I set up more positively, I end up losing 3-1 or worse.

That’s the main issue dealt with, but I’d be interested to see if anyone else has observed the following. I almost always set up with my two central defenders on CD – D. However, I often find that I observe the two following situations.

Situation one – The opposition plays with two up front, or an AM behind a striker. They both sit on the same centre back, effectively overloading him. Despite the shape of my back four looking good, the other CB (or the FB for that matter) simply doesn’t react to the overload, but rather maintains his position. Despite there being two attackers and 4-5 defensive players in the same area of the pitch, none of the defenders think to pick up the ‘other’ forward in this situation. I concede a fair number of goals in this manner and I can’t see a solution.

Situation two – Despite setting up as above, I end up with one CB directly behind the other, like he’s playing as a sweeper. He has no covering duty on. He’s just inexplicably out of position. This of course leaves loads of space to the sides of the two CBs, which is often exploited. Any thoughts?

So there we have it. The cynical side of me wants to point the finger at the match engine, but I’ve been around on here long enough to know that the ‘It’s your tactics’ brigade will sharpen their pitchforks and lynch me at their earliest convenience. I accept that, to a degree, it certainly is my tactics. However, I feel that the AI is perhaps a bit too efficient in exploiting any weaknesses in my approach, which is sort of fine. Or it would be, if I was able to discern the AI doing anything particularly special – I’m sure it probably is, but I can’t see it. Sometimes I feel like I can’t win, on the defensive side. A typical example would be as follows. I usually like my full backs to close down more. This seems to exacerbate the ball inside the FBs, due to them being pulled out of position. The obvious solution is to instruct them to close down less, which works to an extent, but then I concede goals from crosses. I recognise the fact that everything is a compromise when it comes to tactics, I really do, but I’m left banging my head against a brick wall with the defensive side of things.

Sorry, bit of an ME moan in there, but I’m really interested to see if other people are having the same sorts of problems, and how they go about fixing them.

[Luizinho]

Possibly, but as well as narrowing your width, it will also focus passing through the middle, which isn't always a great idea.

Okay

What about 'Stick to Positions', I was always aware that it was an attacking phase shout?

[Flohrinho]

Its a Fact but anyway.........

It's actually not. I done the math on that a while back in FM11 or 12 when I also felt that I had a much harder time converting chances then the AI. Turns out over the entire season it was pretty even with a slight advantage for my team even.

I wish SI would just make stats in the game more detailed so stuff like this could be easily looked up. I had to look at all the CCCs individually and look if they were scored or not which is a lot of work.

The reason imo why the impression arises that the AI can convert chance better are those handful of games where you crush your opponent in every regard but they score with their only two shots on target while you can't find a goal those are the games that you keep remembering because they are so annoying and thus you feel you are at a disadvantage here.

[HTC]

The number of times I see my full backs (who are amongst the best in the league) standing there idly watching a winger run in behind them as the ball is slotted between CB and FB is nothing short of infuriating.

I have exatcly the same problem even with lesser quality teams.

What helped me (at least with lesser quality opps, next year in Europe i will try it with bigger ones) was this :

GK - GKd

DR - FBs - Close down Less, Hold Position, Stay wider

DL - the same

DCR - CDd - Close down More, Ease Off tackles.

DCL - the same.

DMCR - DMs - Close down More.

DMCL - the same

I have the feeling that :

1)in addition to two DWs in AMRL positions that sit Narrow, makes my team solid

2)the close down more to 4 central positions makes players more aggressive when chasing balls behind my (little because of low def line) back.

It is also crucial for your Full Backs to have good Positioning and dont have the Get Forward PI so they lose position too often.

Defensive Line - Set by Mentality (Counter)

Fluidity - Rigid.

Get Stuck In, Stick to Positions, More Disciplined.

In 24 games i played this tactic i conceeded 13. Most of them through set pieces, throw ins etc. And scored 49.

I will post more details if it continues to work.

[ajsr1982]

I have exatcly the same problem even with lesser quality teams.

What helped me (at least with lesser quality opps, next year in Europe i will try it with bigger ones) was this :

GK - GKd

DR - FBs - Close down Less, Hold Position, Stay wider

DL - the same

DCR - CDd - Close down More, Ease Off tackles.

DCL - the same.

DMCR - DMs - Close down More.

DMCL - the same

I have the feeling that :

1)in addition to two DWs in AMRL positions that sit Narrow, makes my team solid

2)the close down more to 4 central positions makes players more aggressive when chasing balls behind my (little because of low def line) back.

It is also crucial for your Full Backs to have good Positioning and dont have the Get Forward PI so they lose position too often.

Defensive Line - Set by Mentality (Counter)

Fluidity - Rigid.

Get Stuck In, Stick to Positions, More Disciplined.

In 24 games i played this tactic i conceeded 13. Most of them through set pieces, throw ins etc. And scored 49.

I will post more details if it continues to work.

Interesting. Your full backs sitting wider should in theory increase the space between them and the CBs I guess. How do they fare going forward? how about your DWs? Do they often get up to support your front man, or get beyond him?

[HTC]

(http://oi60.tinypic.com/otdwd0.jpg - I wont give up )

Actually they work perfect.

My AML for example has 101 Itc in 25 games plus 7 goals 9 assists. And 2.27 tackles/per game when the full back in his side has 2.43.

As for my full backs i had in mind to closs less to decrease times they get battered but not leave to much space to opps AMLRs thats why i chose stay wider (i know i maybe have a completely wrong idea of how this PI works). So far it works, my gollie has 17 clean sheets in 24 games in the league. Sit Narrower set by default by Counter mentality also helps.

[ajsr1982]

(http://oi60.tinypic.com/otdwd0.jpg - I wont give up )

Actually they work perfect.

My AML for example has 101 Itc in 25 games plus 7 goals 9 assists.

As for my full backs i had in mind to closs less to decrease times they get battered but not leave to much space to opps AMLRs thats why i chose stay wider (i know i maybe have a completely wrong idea of how this PI works). So far it works, my gollie has 17 clean sheets in 24 games in the league.

Thanks. I might just give this a try.

[alinp]

I know I'm only 3 league games in & it is League 2, but not conceded a league goal with this... yet

[dan99]

Not read the thread, just addressing the thread title. The answer is yes. This is an below average keeper in the Premier League, with 24 clean sheets.

[jamez_b]

Does anyone find that the left flank is a lot harder to defend than the right against smaller teams yet score most of their goals down the right hand side against bigger teams?

Still struggling to find that tactical sweet spot with Pana, HTC? Thing i'm discovering 5 seasons in to my Pana game is that the Greek league is a lot trickier than people realise as there is a big gap in reputations between Olympiakos, Pana, PAOK and the rest of the league. It has been very easy, as it is in real life, to dominate the league if you are the team with Champions League football and all the money every season. This means the majority of games you are playing are against teams with no intention of attacking you whatsoever and will just wait for that one opportunity to catch you on the break.

The trouble is that it does sometimes seem as though these lesser teams when given the opportunity rarely make a mistake in front of goal. I share the frustration as I can go from beating Real Madrid 4-0 (26 shots, 6 CCC vs 2 shots against 0 CCC) to drawing 2-2 (24 shots 4 CCC vs 2 shots against 2 CCC) with Kavala playing the same tactic and players.

The only option I've found is to vary your defensive line and tempo throughout the game against the poor opposition. High line against good teams, deep line against bad teams.

That and look at when your assistant is saying that your team are looking like they think they can just turn up and win today. Normally means you are in for a frustrating game so adjust your team talk accordingly and up the tempo.

[RTHerringbone]

Okay

What about 'Stick to Positions', I was always aware that it was an attacking phase shout?

It is - it's more about the freedom to Roam that your team has when in possession.

[Luizinho]

It is - it's more about the freedom to Roam that your team has when in possession.

So it has little impact when in defence?

[RTHerringbone]

So it has little impact when in defence?

Not in my opinion.

[ajsr1982]

So it has little impact when in defence?

Reading between the lines, I would say that the only real impact it has defensively is that it makes you harder to counter against, because your team will be less likely to veer away from the structure of your formation. As such, the transition from attack to defence should take place a lot quicker.

[Deego619]

Some of the best advice I've read on how to set up your team, kind of out dated but the principles are still there

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/322668-Scout-and-Team-reports-and-how-I-use-them.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/338410-A-guide-to-minimising-goals-from-crosses

[HTC]

@jamez_b i am still trying mate I found some time to start a September 2013 save i had with the perfect transfers. Some great free young Brazilians.

I ve just finished first season. 34 games, 26 wins, 6 draws, 2 looses, 69 for 21 (8 from Set pieces) ag.

Nice sum but i am still not happy conceeding like hell against better teams (i have a descent squad but they are young and new in the team)

I still experimenting with the tactic i sticked to through season making tiny changes.

Counter - Rigid and some PIs.

I am very happy with attacking. Some lethal quick counter attacks.

My striker (Carlos Adriano de Sousa Cruz) ended up with 25 goals 9 assists in 36 matches.

My AM (Federico Freire) with 5 goals 10 assists in 25 matces.

My AML (Korovesis) with 9 goals 13 assists in 33 games.

My AMR (Fabio Faria de Souza, Fabinho) with 6 goals 9 assists in 23 matches.

The defence seems solid but i have to wait and see in Europe next year.

[RTHerringbone]

I'm intrigued by what people define to be a "solid defence".

HTCs record above compares (defensively, at least) well to the current Greek Superleague table, where Olympiakos conceded 19 in 34.

In 2012/13 they conceded 16 (30 games per season prior to 2013/14), 17 the season before, 15 in 2010/11, Panathinaikos conceded 17 the season before.....

Conceding anything less than about 0.7 goals a game is very good - in my opinion.

I accept that some goals that are conceded can look a bit duff, but given the wider (important) context of the overall season's absolute count of goals conceded, I'm baffled that people get so riled after conceding so few goals :confused:

[ajsr1982]

I'm intrigued by what people define to be a "solid defence".

HTCs record above compares (defensively, at least) well to the current Greek Superleague table, where Olympiakos conceded 19 in 34.

In 2012/13 they conceded 16 (30 games per season prior to 2013/14), 17 the season before, 15 in 2010/11, Panathinaikos conceded 17 the season before.....

Conceding anything less than about 0.7 goals a game is very good - in my opinion.

I accept that some goals that are conceded can look a bit duff, but given the wider (important) context of the overall season's absolute count of goals conceded, I'm baffled that people get so riled after conceding so few goals :confused:

I don't have the numbers to hand, but I can't think of a season where I've conceded fewer than 50 goals in a 38 game season - though it's usually 55-60. Given the stature of my team, which is probably in between Everton and Newcastle in today's money, I'd consider something in the low 40s as success.

Going slightly off-topic, how important is morale in all of this? I have a game going with Genoa, who are a lower mid-table side in Serie A. I started the season well, taking 13 points from a possible 15 and conceding just two goals. I somewhat stupidly thought I was onto a winner, and then I met Juventus away. I tried to set up defensively, but ended up losing 5-0. Morale took a bit of a blow, despite the result not being totally unexpected. I then went on the following run of results.

AC Milan (H) - 2-7

Udinese (A) - 3-5

Napoli (H) - 0-6

Chievo (A) 0-3

I switched the damn thing off in a fit of rage after being utterly destroyed by 19th placed Chievo. I had four tough games in a row which appear to have completely derailed my season. I've set up pretty cautiously in all of those games to no avail. Can my team's morale (which is somewhat predictably rock bottom) really have that much of an impact? I could understand losing those four tough games, but to lose them like that seems a little over the top.

[HTC]

I'm intrigued by what people define to be a "solid defence".

HTCs record above compares (defensively, at least) well to the current Greek Superleague table, where Olympiakos conceded 19 in 34.

In 2012/13 they conceded 16 (30 games per season prior to 2013/14), 17 the season before, 15 in 2010/11, Panathinaikos conceded 17 the season before.....

Conceding anything less than about 0.7 goals a game is very good - in my opinion.

I accept that some goals that are conceded can look a bit duff, but given the wider (important) context of the overall season's absolute count of goals conceded, I'm baffled that people get so riled after conceding so few goals :confused:

Problem is that worst opponents (all of them except two teams, in my league) have created half of my CCCs and almost the same HC, at me.

This means that when i face similar, harder or worst but suspicious of my way of play opponents next year i will have many problems.

Hope i am wrong, we will see.

[daviohallio]

Very impressive stats!! What formation / setup are you using to get this?

[daviohallio]

Not read the thread, just addressing the thread title. The answer is yes. This is an below average keeper in the Premier League, with 24 clean sheets.

Sorry was meant to be in reply to this - not sure what happened there!

[jamez_b]

I'm intrigued by what people define to be a "solid defence".

HTCs record above compares (defensively, at least) well to the current Greek Superleague table, where Olympiakos conceded 19 in 34.

In 2012/13 they conceded 16 (30 games per season prior to 2013/14), 17 the season before, 15 in 2010/11, Panathinaikos conceded 17 the season before.....

Conceding anything less than about 0.7 goals a game is very good - in my opinion.

I accept that some goals that are conceded can look a bit duff, but given the wider (important) context of the overall season's absolute count of goals conceded, I'm baffled that people get so riled after conceding so few goals :confused:

I think it's very much a case of the FM player's endless quest for perfection. Never resting on your laurels and always looking at how to better your team and ensure you always improve. This is what keeps people interested after all.

I think the frustration with conceding the only shot on target comes probably from more watching a team that has been battered for most of the game suddenly fire off about 20 passes before scoring whilst your defenders stand there doing nothing and refusing to tackle.

As someone said earlier in the thread it is definitely swings and roundabouts when it comes to chances converted. Yes it rarely happens in the league because you should be dominating most games in Greece so is very rare for the roles be reversed. This is where HTC probably sees the frustration because the first season Panathinaikos has no European football so the 1 shot 1 goal seems very 1 sided if you are doing well.

However it balances itself out when you start playing European matches as well. This happened last night and it made me smile especially after discussing the 2 shots on target, 2 CCCs 2 goals yesterday. I didn't even play defensive, i went for it with my standard tactics but that is the beauty of FM, one minute you curse it, one minute you love it.

Got a bit of luck in the end but i'd beaten Man Utd (3-2 Aggregate), Real Madrid (5-1 Aggregate) and Atletico Madrid (4-3 aggregate) to get there.

The future wife then proceeded to say i'd better be that happy on our wedding day and didn't understand how winning the Champions League was that exciting......sigh.

[Kawee]

The future wife then proceeded to say i'd better be that happy on our wedding day and didn't understand how winning the Champions League was that exciting......sigh.

If she doesn't understand FM joy, I'd reconsider the wedding...

[jamez_b]

If she doesn't understand FM joy, I'd reconsider the wedding...

The team and their achievements will be getting a mention in my speech. Sadly getting Donis, Leto, Ninis and Villalva over for the wedding might be a little tricky but they'll get an invite all the same after last nights performance.

[HTC]

Congrats jamez_b I tryied to find in the pic in what round of CL you had this result and when i saw Final and that my favorite player (Leto) who you got back scored a big smile was my reaction.

Did you use the same tactic in the road to the final?

[jamez_b]

Cheers mate. Yeah when Leto scored that goal i was going mental especially after having been so close to holding on in normal time and then go 2-1 down early on in Extra time. Thought my luck was up. But then a wonderful through ball from Ninis and then a cool finish from Leto sent it to penalties. Then my young squad kept their nerve and revelation of the season Donis hit the winning penalty.

Below is the formation I've been using this season and in Europe it has been solid defensively having only conceded 8 goals and only twice have i conceded more than 1 goal (Atletico and Benfica):

Benfica though played 4-1-3-2 with 3 CMs and a DM which had the team really didn't cope well with and Trianta was constantly pulled out of position by Cardozo which Vietto exploited for most of their CCC. So need to go back and re-analyse where i was exploited and formulate some ideas of how to avoid it if i come up a similar tactic next season. Think would have been better employing Lagos as a Defensive midfielder/ball winning midfielder rather than anchor man to cover more ground.

Pana Heat Map

Benfica Heat Map

[HTC]

bleventozturk Since you didnt share your setup, i searched your posts in case you shared more info about it.

I came to the conclusion that its something like this.

GK

WB (S) Close down more

CD - i added shorter passing

CD - same

WB (S) Close down more

BWM (D)

BBM Tight Mark, Tackle harder

CM (A) - i added Dribble More, Get Further Forward, Roam, to make him a Central Winger

BBM same as the other.

CF (S) - i added to the right one Move Into Chanells

CF (S) - ...and to the left one Roam from Position.

All players Shoot Less, Fluid - Counter, Shorter Passing and Push Higher.

Now there is a topic here in which topic starter uploaded his FMC save, and his next match is a GODLIKE Manchester United. His team is a Stoke with descent players. I ve played it about 30 times and your tactic faced them better than any other.

With all the other tactics they created tons of CCCs. With yours they were very stricted. And i loved the way my team was defending. I will definitelly try it in my own save.

Considering Mr Roslers succesfull tactics i think this 4-1-3-2 is the most solid tactic to use in this version of FM.

[HTC]

jamez_b very nice setup, although this Much Higher Def Line with Offside has killed me so many times. Maby it takes years of cohesion for the defenders to work right.

[bleventozturk]

bleventozturk Since you didnt share your setup, i searched your posts in case you shared more info about it.

I came to the conclusion that its something like this.

GK

WB (S) Close down more

CD - i added shorter passing

CD - same

WB (S) Close down more

BWM (D)

BBM Tight Mark, Tackle harder

CM (A) - i added Dribble More, Get Further Forward, Roam, to make him a Central Winger

BBM same as the other.

CF (S) - i added to the right one Move Into Chanells

CF (S) - ...and to the left one Roam from Position.

All players Shoot Less, Fluid - Counter, Shorter Passing and Push Higher.

Now there is a topic here in which topic starter uploaded his FMC save, and his next match is a GODLIKE Manchester United. His team is a Stoke with descent players. I ve played it about 30 times and your tactic faced them better than any other.

With all the other tactics they created tons of CCCs. With yours they were very stricted. And i loved the way my team was defending. I will definitelly try it in my own save.

Considering Mr Roslers succesfull tactics i think this 4-1-3-2 is the most solid tactic to use in this version of FM.

HTC, the setup you are using is very similar to mine, you got it right

The formation was working well already for me, but it was after I added 'mark tighter' to my BBM's that my defense got significantly more solid, which is exactly what I wanted to achieve. So I was very happy to see it, BUT... Small experimental changes like that sometimes have huge effects in this ME, which makes me question the sensitivity of the ME.

[HTC]

Your wingbacks have good defensive attributes (positioning, marking etc) also or only attacking?

[bleventozturk]

Your wingbacks have good defensive attributes (positioning, marking etc) also or only attacking?

I make sure that they do have good defensive attributes, especially the positioning and marking. The few hot prospect FB's in my team had low(ish) positioning and marking, but I focused their training on those attributes until they became decent/good.

[jcafcwbb]

After an indifferent start with my AFC Wimbledon I switched to a 4-1-3-2 formation. I have won 4 in a row conceding just one goal whilst scoring six. It is early days but I may have found a tactic which works for my team. I start off with a Balanced/Standard tactic with a Work Ball Into The Box shout.

My team lines up like this: Wing-Backs - Support; Centre Backs - Defend; Def Mid - Defend; Centre Mid - Support, BWM - Support, Centre-Midfield - Support; Target Man - Support, Target Man - Attack.

Depending on the match I change things:

Defending a lead - change to counter mentality.

Not Winning the Midfield - change to a 4-1-3-1-1 with an attacking midfielder support instead of my supporting Target Man.

Too many highlights with the opposition's wingers - change my wing-backs to full-backs - defend.

I am not too sure why it works. But it works. My fourth win was due to an 85th minute header from a corner but it was away.