Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion

[EuanMarneyW]

It's because the DLP/AP don't get onto the end of the final product so the ratings don't reflect all the hard work done before a goal/assist. As long as you know they are doing the task you gave them though all is fine

Yep, thats exactly what I was trying to say, except rather less succinctly !

[SJ234]

Goals are such an issue for my team at the moment. Play well in all aspects apart from the scoreline and therefore probably chance creation

[Rashidi]

This is where everyone view of SHOUTS differ. For me, they are 'tweakers', strong ones, but still tweakers. This way if you play a direct game and you get the feedback that your missing easy passes or your shorter passes are working better, then my first reaction would be to use the possession shout rather than lowering passing or messing with tempo.

There are only a few shouts that fully push sliders to the end and that is "hassle" and "stand off". Some others might look like they do, but this normally depends on your starting position of the initial sliders.

Thats the reason why I never ever use the Hassle Shout, it can be a game loser

[JulianBarth]

How do you keep your shape when encouraging players to press and roam a lot?

[lam]

How do you keep your shape when encouraging players to press and roam a lot?

Well.... it can be very tough. Though with this tactic, not sure what you're using, but only the front three roam, so it's not so much of an issue. However, the theory is that with ZONAL marking, the players return to their positions when the ball moves out of their zone.

The shape of my team is crystal clear at the end of the game. I did switch to manual ZONAL marking this time around and maybe that is why. I can'#t quite recall what it looked like before.......

[PES-Dude]

I need help with formation, tactics, player roles, philosophy etc.

I have the following players at my disposal:

Mignolet

Bardsley

O'Shea

Cuellar

Rose

Cattermole

Kara

Vaughan

Larsson

Gardner

Colback

Wellington Nem

Sessegnon

Adryan

McClean

Fletcher

Ji Dong Won

Wickham

I'm Sunderland if you can't tell. I was thinking a 4-2-3-1 but not sure how I'd set it up. I want to play a short passing game and try to play attractive, possession based football. Any ideas?

[SJ234]

I am genuinely lost to why my team can't create chances

[Ron_Burgundy]

Cleon - over the space of about a week I have spent AGES catching up on this thread. It is absolutely superb and I want to thank you for your efforts. I imagine you get some satisfaction from seeing other people take on your ideas and do well but it is still a great gesture from yourself.

However, I do have a question to all thread posters - I hope this isn't an inappropriate question. If it is, my apologies.

It is a quick one - a few people on here have said they are going to use this thread to create a tactic for Arsenal. But, no one seems to have come back to say how they did.

May I ask if anyone has had success, (mainly thinking league title) with similar system to Cleon's?

I am about to start second season with Arsenal and will be moving from my deep 4231 to this 4-1-2-2-1 set up but I wondered if anyone using Arsenal had found any little tiny tweaks, that kind of thing, which may be useful to me?

Cheers all - and Cleon I hope you don't feel as though I am hijacking your thread. If I have missed similar in previous posts, my apologies.

Cheers!

[Cleon]

I need help with formation, tactics, player roles, philosophy etc.

I have the following players at my disposal:

Mignolet

Bardsley

O'Shea

Cuellar

Rose

Cattermole

Kara

Vaughan

Larsson

Gardner

Colback

Wellington Nem

Sessegnon

Adryan

McClean

Fletcher

Ji Dong Won

Wickham

I'm Sunderland if you can't tell. I was thinking a 4-2-3-1 but not sure how I'd set it up. I want to play a short passing game and try to play attractive, possession based football. Any ideas?

Read the thread and see if the way I play suits the team you have. If not then try applying the logic behind why the tactic works for me into your own save.

Not to be rude or anything but from what you've posted there how is anyone supposed to help you or give you ideas? Not everyone will be familiar with those players so we can't advise.

[Cleon]

I am genuinely lost to why my team can't create chances

Have you watched games back? How does the analysis page look? What kind of areas are you having possession? What are are you having shots from? What have you done to try and improve the chances? What does the support look like? blah blah blah

I'm not been funny but I'm not sure how you think anyone can help you when you post just a sentence like you did.

[Cleon]

Cleon - over the space of about a week I have spent AGES catching up on this thread. It is absolutely superb and I want to thank you for your efforts. I imagine you get some satisfaction from seeing other people take on your ideas and do well but it is still a great gesture from yourself.

However, I do have a question to all thread posters - I hope this isn't an inappropriate question. If it is, my apologies.

It is a quick one - a few people on here have said they are going to use this thread to create a tactic for Arsenal. But, no one seems to have come back to say how they did.

May I ask if anyone has had success, (mainly thinking league title) with similar system to Cleon's?

I am about to start second season with Arsenal and will be moving from my deep 4231 to this 4-1-2-2-1 set up but I wondered if anyone using Arsenal had found any little tiny tweaks, that kind of thing, which may be useful to me?

Cheers all - and Cleon I hope you don't feel as though I am hijacking your thread. If I have missed similar in previous posts, my apologies.

Cheers!

Its great when I know I've helped someone improve their own game. Even if I get abused by 500 members and only 1 person takes the advice given in this thread and can apply it into their own game. It makes it all worth the while

I don't feel you are hijacking the thread either

[Cleon]

I'll try and update this thread in the next week

[Seagullfan]

I would also like to say that although I am struggling to get this to work properly it has given me a much better understanding of how tactics work. With all the advice in this thread I now understand how to slowly identify things that are wrong and why they are wrong. This then allows me to consider the options to put it right. I don't expect to get a similar tactic working straight away but I know that as I understand more going forward I can actually adapt things to gradually get to where I need to be with it

So a great big thanks to Cleon from me too. I know you have struggled to find the desire to continue putting together these kind of threads but please don't give up because for the odd person who doesn't actually get it there are a lot of us that do and really appreciate the work you put in to help us

[Sleepydude]

I'm still having some problems with my midfield three (Anchorman/CM(a)/DLP(d)). I did untick HUB for all of them which has stopped them getting tackled and losing possession in the midfield.

They still bunch up too much, however. Especially the Anchorman and DLP. I wonder if anybody has had any success with switching the roles like Cleon mentioned he would earlier in the thread, moving the DLP to the DM position and making one of the CMs a Ball winning midfielder or CM(d)?

CM(a) BWM

DLP

[lam]

Well.... in relation to my midfield trio I have kind of settled on the following, but this is subject to who I am play, their formation and who I have selected to play..... so quite how much use it is to you I don't know, but I'll try and explain my reasoning.

If there is an AMC in the opposition setup and he has a history of being difficult (see scouting reports and opposition stats), then I will highly likely play an Anchor. The same applies if there is a very deep striker that gets lots of assits and can't jump.

If however their AMC isn't noted for doing much or drops deep in the game then I tend to edged towards a DM(D) as he is more creatived and allowed more options, but doesn't get forward. If there is no AMC and I don't consider their attackers a major threat then I will consider a DM(S). THough, when this happens you do need to ensure he has SPACE to move forwards into.

My Midfield duo are now normally a CM(D) and a CM(A). This gives me my (as Rashidi refers to it) Pivot (CM(D)) and my attacker CM(A). The CM(A) has RFD often, thus you need to ensure he has space to run into OR he will be on top of your winger or his RFD's will be strangled. So, I tend to play this option when I am using a winger on his side as the winger will normaly stay wide.

If I am using an Inside forward on the same side as the CM(A) then I'll likely change him to a AP(A) as this gives more through balls, mixed RFD and generally works better with the IF(A).

One thing I am enjoying that I tested a while back but after watching Toure yesterday tested it again, and that is to have RWB often on the CM(D). For Spurs fans, Dembele excels at this. My AML tends to always be a IF(A/S) and with the CML-CM(D) with WRB often, he supplies the AML incredibly well. Much like Toure, by the time of the opposition realise someone is charging at them with the ball, he is at full pace and will draw a foul, draw them in to release a throughball or just keep ploughing all the way to the goal.

Just be careful with the RWB and the CM(A) option as it can leave you a little short if they counter, so it's works quite nicely with the DM staying back, who becomes the PIVOT as the others move forwards.

It needs to be set up well, as you need to make sure you can mark the relevant players, don't clash with your own, and still manage to attack.

LAM

[liamgriffiths85]

I concede goals far too easily, i often in matches get nearly double the chances the opposition get but still end up losing!

Here's some highlights of my last game, I score first

[lam]

Your defensive players are being dragged out of position hence making throughballs an easy option for the opposition.

Highly aggressive closing down does not suit all teams nor all opposition. In my last save, second season, I almost stopped using "press more" shout entirely as my team had lost all their pace (through selling players) thus I become highly ineffective at closing down and just left massive gaps everywhere.

Interestingly though, this is something that can be quite dangerous against teams that have wingers that can pass rather than cross. I used to think these teams weak and offered very little threat, however when you try and close down a winger that can pass well and you leave a gap behind you.... they will score. ...... WEST BROM are my nemesis team at the moment. We've played 7 or so game and the goal tally is something like 32. They can't stop me scoring and I can't stop them.......... damned Shane Long (or whatever his name is).

LAM

*EDIT*

Are you playing OFFSIDE?

[liamgriffiths85]

No i'm not

[Cleon]

I concede goals far too easily, i often in matches get nearly double the chances the opposition get but still end up losing!

Here's some highlights of my last game, I score first

Lam's advice is good.

But I'd like to ask you;

Have you watched games back? How does the analysis page look? How are the opposition scoring most of their goals?

Without you giving details I won't even attempt to help you because its pointless and would be all guess work. And I'd rather work with facts than guess so I can actually offer you some advice that will help you.

So if you want help (and this goes for everyone) please be detailed in your posts so someone can offer you actual advice

I know you might think I'm a **** but honestly without the details how can I help? I've tried to help everyone who has posted and been detailed with specific issues and provided stats, screenshots and general analysis. But people need to put a little effort in to get advice back.

[liamgriffiths85]

Those highlights i posted are typically how teams score against me, My defence never seem to react or close down a player quick enough or the opposition find it so easy to thread through balls

I don't watch games back it is very time consuming but i do watch every video of the goals the opposition scores against me

[Cleon]

Those highlights i posted are typically how teams score against me, My defence never seem to react or close down a player quick enough or the opposition find it so easy to thread through balls

I don't watch games back it is very time consuming but i do watch every video of the goals the opposition scores against me

I'm sorry but sometimes you have to help yourself by watching games back. Do you not think it's time consuming me trying to help?

If you don't watch them every so often then you'll not know how your team are really playing. You can watch all the goals or key highlights in the world and you'll still not get an idea of how the team actually plays. They can be quite misleading as they only focus on errors that create chances.

Also I know nothing about how you play and the settings you use..........I can't tell you what to try without knowing.

[liamgriffiths85]

I'm using the same formation and settings that you have for your tottenham team except my strikers is an AFWD and may players are encouraged not to try long shots even though they still do

Like i said i get loads of chances mostly from right outside the box

the opposition only need 1 or 2 chances and usually score and win the game, it's so frustrating

Take my last game for example, a 1-0 loss to Salisbury at home, i have 9 shots, 3 on target 62% possession, They get 4 shots 1 on target which they score from

The goal was so easy for them as well, Their midfielder just picked it up inbetween my defence and midfield and slotted it inbetween my LB and CB who just both watch the bball pass inbetween them for the striker to get on the edge of the box and score my DM is set to tight man marking so i don't understand how their CM managed to pick the ball and thread it through so easily, and why did my defenders do nothing?

Here's a still of when their CM recieves the ball just before passing

[SJ234]

Have you watched games back? How does the analysis page look? What kind of areas are you having possession? What are are you having shots from? What have you done to try and improve the chances? What does the support look like? blah blah blah

I'm not been funny but I'm not sure how you think anyone can help you when you post just a sentence like you did.

Sorry I was in a rush and intended to come back and add the details.

I play with balanced, shorter, more expressive, press more, drilled, zonal, more roaming. I play either with standard or counter depending on the opposition.

I play:

SK (D)

FB(A)

CB©

BDP(x)

WB (A)

DM (D)

DLP(s)-hold up ball turned off

AP(A)

W (s)

IF (A)- through ball is turned up if Gotze if playing

DLF(A/S)- fiddling with this doesn't seem to have made much difference!

Have tried trequartista however the few matches I have tried it in.

I'll try and get some pictures and analysis of the analysis page later today or tomorrow

[llama3]

A lot of people are trying their lone forward as a Trequartista - not a lot of people have considered using a Trequartista in the AMC role - particular note towards Arsenal here, Giroud, Podolski and Walcott are not trequartista's, you would be lucky to get a consistently well performing Treq out of them (although not impossible), whereas Cazorla and Ramsey are excellent shouts for Trequartista just behind them, and can feed a good finisher like the aforementioned 3 are!

[SJ234]

A lot of people are trying their lone forward as a Trequartista - not a lot of people have considered using a Trequartista in the AMC role - particular note towards Arsenal here, Giroud, Podolski and Walcott are not trequartista's, you would be lucky to get a consistently well performing Treq out of them (although not impossible), whereas Cazorla and Ramsey are excellent shouts for Trequartista just behind them, and can feed a good finisher like the aforementioned 3 are!

Wilshere also. I have had issues with that formation with the opposition just marking out my AMC. It also led to my play becoming predictable at times and I ended up just passing it round their box again and again. Partially due to how I was set up. I intend to recreate that formation at the end of the season.

[lam]

the opposition only need 1 or 2 chances and usually score and win the game, it's so frustrating

So frustrating you don't want to watch a game? Would you rather play the whole season being frustrated taking tons of time and not know why it's failing to work, or would you rather watch a couple of games and start to understsand it.

Take my last game for example, a 1-0 loss to Salisbury at home, i have 9 shots, 3 on target 62% possession, They get 4 shots 1 on target which they score from

I fail to see why you think this should result in a win for you. Why do you think more shots on target should equal a win?

The goal was so easy for them as well, Their midfielder just picked it up inbetween my defence and midfield and slotted it inbetween my LB and CB who just both watch the bball pass inbetween them for the striker to get on the edge of the box and score my DM is set to tight man marking so i don't understand how their CM managed to pick the ball and thread it through so easily, and why did my defenders do nothing?

Last time I replied I mentioned something about closing down. What have you done about my reply?

LAM

[Cleon]

I'm using the same formation and settings that you have for your tottenham team except my strikers is an AFWD and may players are encouraged not to try long shots even though they still do

Like i said i get loads of chances mostly from right outside the box

the opposition only need 1 or 2 chances and usually score and win the game, it's so frustrating

Take my last game for example, a 1-0 loss to Salisbury at home, i have 9 shots, 3 on target 62% possession, They get 4 shots 1 on target which they score from

The goal was so easy for them as well, Their midfielder just picked it up inbetween my defence and midfield and slotted it inbetween my LB and CB who just both watch the bball pass inbetween them for the striker to get on the edge of the box and score my DM is set to tight man marking so i don't understand how their CM managed to pick the ball and thread it through so easily, and why did my defenders do nothing?

Here's a still of when their CM recieves the ball just before passing

Lam addressed this earlier in the thread...

[Cleon]

A lot of people are trying their lone forward as a Trequartista - not a lot of people have considered using a Trequartista in the AMC role - particular note towards Arsenal here, Giroud, Podolski and Walcott are not trequartista's, you would be lucky to get a consistently well performing Treq out of them (although not impossible), whereas Cazorla and Ramsey are excellent shouts for Trequartista just behind them, and can feed a good finisher like the aforementioned 3 are!

I think a lot of the Arsenal fans who posted in here are looking to use the 41221 which doesn't use a AMC. I think that's the main reason people haven't considered it.

I do think Arsenal are more suited to a 4231 though. I think a AP support would work great behind a natural poacher and should score bucket loads like in my Newcastle save from FM12 that is in the SI Sports thread.

[Kamil-S]

I think a lot of the Arsenal fans who posted in here are looking to use the 41221 which doesn't use a AMC. I think that's the main reason people haven't considered it.

I do think Arsenal are more suited to a 4231 though. I think a AP support would work great behind a natural poacher and should score bucket loads like in my Newcastle save from FM12 that is in the SI Sports thread.

So is it possible to use lone poacher with success this year? I've tried various configurations and after all even high-off the ball players have problems with getting past defenders when their forward runs are set to often. Default TC poacher role simply doesn't work for me this year in lone forward formations. In 4-2-3-1 I've tried CF/support + AMC treq combo and it looked like lasts year AP/support + poacher configuration (in terms of effectiveness)...

[Cleon]

So is it possible to use lone poacher with success this year? I've tried various configurations and after all even high-off the ball players have problems with getting past defenders when their forward runs are set to often. Default TC poacher role simply doesn't work for me this year in lone forward formations. In 4-2-3-1 I've tried CF/support + AMC treq combo and it looked like lasts year AP/support + poacher configuration (in terms of effectiveness)...

Works fine for me and did last year too. I only use the default poacher settings. The key to getting it to work is the AMC and how you set him up, he has to supply the balls and have the creativity to see all his options available.

[Ron_Burgundy]

Cleon - quick question.

You have mentioned a couple of times that you slightly changed things and went for two IF both set to attack in your second season at Spurs...but I cannot find a detailed write up for that setup...

Am I being blind or have you not managed to do that yet?

[Cleon]

Cleon - quick question.

You have mentioned a couple of times that you slightly changed things and went for two IF both set to attack in your second season at Spurs...but I cannot find a detailed write up for that setup...

Am I being blind or have you not managed to do that yet?

Not done it yet but its exact same set up just with two IF's.

[PES-Dude]

Read the thread and see if the way I play suits the team you have. If not then try applying the logic behind why the tactic works for me into your own save.

Not to be rude or anything but from what you've posted there how is anyone supposed to help you or give you ideas? Not everyone will be familiar with those players so we can't advise.

I decided to play a 4-2-3-1 with two DMs and playing attacking, fluid football with more creative freedom, shorter passing, zonal marking and more pressing. Having very impressive results since I switched, such as:

QPR (A) - Won 8-2

Man City (A) - Won 2-1

Reading (A) - Won 6-2

Only bad results I've had is getting beat off Spurs 3-0 at WHL and losing to Liverpool 3-2 at Anfield. Adebayor completely tore me apart but Liverpool were really fortunate. Steven Fletcher is absolutely on fire. I signed Martin Olsson for the left back role, just need a decent right back that will come to Sunderland.

[Brunzig]

I'm new to making or trying my own tactics out and i am wondering if you can play fluid and control at the same time with shorter passing, would you retain possession just as good as say rigid control?

[Cleon]

I'm new to making or trying my own tactics out and i am wondering if you can play fluid and control at the same time with shorter passing, would you retain possession just as good as say rigid control?

It sounds like you are unsure of what style actually does so I'll quote what I wrote a bit further up this page

wwfan put it best when he said this;

The philosophies are mentality and creative freedom structures. They range from being very structured with low creative freedom, to being very unstructured with lots of creative freedom. A useful interpretation would be as follows:

Very Rigid: Each player is given a job and is supposed to stick to it (usually 5+ different roles across a team)

Rigid: Players are assigned a responsibility that contributes to a specific element of play (Defence, defence & transition, transition & attack, attack)

Balanced: Players focus on their duty (Defend, Support, Attack)

Fluid: Players are given instructions to focus on defence or attack

Very Fluid: Players contribute to all aspects of play

As you can see, each step reduces the level of specialisation. At Very Rigid, you have five different roles, Rigid four responsibilities, Balanced three duties, Fluid two focuses, Very Fluid one method. In Very Rigid philosophies, you expect players to stick to their role, so can assign multiple specialist roles. In Very Fluid philosophies, you expect everybody to do a bit of everything, which means specialist roles are redundant.

So as you can see any can work. The key is choosing the player roles/duties to compliment the style of play you are trying to create

[Brunzig]

It sounds like you are unsure of what style actually does so I'll quote what I wrote a bit further up this page

So as you can see any can work. The key is choosing the player roles/duties to compliment the style of play you are trying to create

right ok, well i want to control possession and dictate the game but i also when i attack i want fluid movement. I like the way Denmark play 4-2-3-1 they try and control the game with young Eriksen the AP position and making use of the wingers.

They play similar to Holland. Ill keep trying to master the art of creating a decent tactic. I'm thinking balanced and control maybe the best way to go about getting this desired tactic. In

[lpcinder]

I think a lot of the Arsenal fans who posted in here are looking to use the 41221 which doesn't use a AMC. I think that's the main reason people haven't considered it.

I do think Arsenal are more suited to a 4231 though. I think a AP support would work great behind a natural poacher and should score bucket loads like in my Newcastle save from FM12 that is in the SI Sports thread.

That's what I'm trying as we speak. I'm using Wilshere and Isco for those roles when I play "easier" games. Though I'm still trying to figure what's best for my central midfield positions, maybe a BBM would be nice as well, someone with good stamina like Ramsey of Sissoko.

The strength of your setup for me Cleon, is the fact that I don't take goals. Last season I conceded only 17 goals, which I think is insane. So when I'm playing tougher games I go back to the 4-1-2-2-1 setup.

[Cleon]

For those of you who might be interested in seeing my approach for developing players, you might enjoy this link;

http://pushthemwide.wordpress.com/2012/12/14/the-comprehensive-guide-to-fm13-training/

My examples are the individual attribute focus ones, Adryan, Butland and Ademilson

[mikcheck]

Cleon a striker with rare/medium trough balls will play more advanced than a striker with often trough balls? Can trough balls influence a striker positioning?

[Cleon]

Cleon a striker with rare/medium trough balls will play more advanced than a striker with often trough balls? Can trough balls influence a striker positioning?

Not really.

Throughballs only really work on a striker if he has players getting ahead of him or if he is dropping deep. If the striker is almost always the furthest forward then they are wasted on him.

[Ron_Burgundy]

Started my preseason with this set up and it is looking quite nice.

Granted, they are much weaker teams than me but the players are still learning the system and fitness isn't great so hopefully this is a good sign of things to come!

Hopefully...

[Ron_Burgundy]

Not done it yet but its exact same set up just with two IF's.

Ah, cheers.

Just wondering.

[mikcheck]

Not really.

Throughballs only really work on a striker if he has players getting ahead of him or if he is dropping deep. If the striker is almost always the furthest forward then they are wasted on him.

Thank you once again

[Gee_Simpson]

Works fine for me and did last year too. I only use the default poacher settings. The key to getting it to work is the AMC and how you set him up, he has to supply the balls and have the creativity to see all his options available.

I remember wwfan saying that a lone poacher shouldn't work in this years version due to collision avoidance. Your post has given me hope though.

[Cleon]

I remember wwfan saying that a lone poacher shouldn't work in this years version due to collision avoidance. Your post has given me hope though.

That statement alone can be misleading though. Even with the collision avoidance if the player gets the right kind of supply a poacher can still work. But he needs supply and support

[The Dandy Dons]

I'm now playing that at the start of the new season. I switch the DLP onto support when playing poorer teams. I gave the supporting full backs a go, but the attacking wing backs give more of an outlet so I'm sticking with them for just now. The AML is still too wide and not really coming inside and the AMC is a bit pointless just now. In my last match Welbeck got a hat trick as a DLF(A), so a move from the trequartista forward might be on the cards. I want to stick with it, but with an AMC and an inside forward, it is proving a bit problematic to get a fluid front-line. I might move the forward to a CF(A) meaning there can be dropping off and going in behind and moving the AMC onto trequartista duty. Any opinions? Just trial and error for me just now.

[Sleepydude]

I'm now playing that at the start of the new season. I switch the DLP onto support when playing poorer teams. I gave the supporting full backs a go, but the attacking wing backs give more of an outlet so I'm sticking with them for just now. The AML is still too wide and not really coming inside and the AMC is a bit pointless just now. In my last match Welbeck got a hat trick as a DLF(A), so a move from the trequartista forward might be on the cards. I want to stick with it, but with an AMC and an inside forward, it is proving a bit problematic to get a fluid front-line. I might move the forward to a CF(A) meaning there can be dropping off and going in behind and moving the AMC onto trequartista duty. Any opinions? Just trial and error for me just now.

I've been having some success with my own 4-2-3-1 lately, I'd advise you to change your two CMs to DLP(s) and CM(d). You really want them to hold position and form a defensive block, and a BWM has such high closing down that he'll be all over the place leaving you vulnerable through the middle.

I also use a CF(a) up front, behind him I have W(s) - AP(s) - IF(s). It works well enough (you need a very good striker for the CF role though). The only problem is that sometimes when the opposition has a good DM they can mark my AMC out of the game. Maybe a Trequartista would work in that case because he will have more freedom to roam and look for space.

[wwfan]

I remember wwfan saying that a lone poacher shouldn't work in this years version due to collision avoidance. Your post has given me hope though.

The lone poacher won't work when he's the only target and everything is funnelled through him. It will be fine if other players are getting opportunities as well. I'm using a lone AF in a 4-2-3-1 at the moment, and it's working fine. My AML is my top scorer though, which illustrates that my lone striker is not the only target.

[Gee_Simpson]

That statement alone can be misleading though. Even with the collision avoidance if the player gets the right kind of supply a poacher can still work. But he needs supply and support

The lone poacher won't work when he's the only target and everything is funnelled through him. It will be fine if other players are getting opportunities as well. I'm using a lone AF in a 4-2-3-1 at the moment, and it's working fine. My AML is my top scorer though, which illustrates that my lone striker is not the only target.

Alright, cheers.

4-2-3-1 is my favourite formation and my favourite type of striker are the Javier Hernandez types which is obviously the poacher role. I couldn't see him being successful in any other role but maybe I'm wrong.

[Cleon]

I'm now playing that at the start of the new season. I switch the DLP onto support when playing poorer teams. I gave the supporting full backs a go, but the attacking wing backs give more of an outlet so I'm sticking with them for just now. The AML is still too wide and not really coming inside and the AMC is a bit pointless just now. In my last match Welbeck got a hat trick as a DLF(A), so a move from the trequartista forward might be on the cards. I want to stick with it, but with an AMC and an inside forward, it is proving a bit problematic to get a fluid front-line. I might move the forward to a CF(A) meaning there can be dropping off and going in behind and moving the AMC onto trequartista duty. Any opinions? Just trial and error for me just now.

It looks like you know what you've got to do, so it really is just a case of trial and error now