Erimus1876 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Finally someone gets the point of the thread. The problem is 99% of people have it engrained within them that being a big club = easy level, without actually thinking about the problem in any depth. They regurgitate the same old lines over and over again about don't manage so and so if you want a tougher game. Its probably one of the reasons why that part of the game never seems to be improved upon, its a cop-out that papers over the real problem most people are unaware of. This debate has been going on for at least two years now, the problem is the AI just can't put up a decent challenge no matter who you are, either tactically or team building-wise. It doesn't matter if someone manages Man Utd or Macclesfield Town, its only a matter of time before (human) player domination sets in because your club will be the only one that adapts to the gameworld and consistantly improves itself while the rest (all AI managed) stagnate or become progressively weaker. So yes, the challenge should be there whoever you manage, big club, or minnow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 On previous FM's i've never had games where i've won 15 out of 15 with big clubs, it has never felt really possible either unless i've been Barca or Madrid. I hate to think how many games i could go unbeaten with those two now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuSS Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I agree with the OP, this is the easiest version to date by quite some distance. I'm undefeated with the default Norwich City squad half way through the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erimus1876 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I agree with the OP, this is the easiest version to date by quite some distance. I'm undefeated with the default Norwich City squad half way through the season. I haven't started my game yet so haven't checked, but I'm wondering if you're using the team talks and motivation options to get the desired results? Have you tried avoiding all team talks and given the role to your assistant manager instead? because I have a feeling this is where the inbalance may be occuring, maybe TT's have far too much influence on how your team performs on the pitch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yeah, if there really is a problem with FM12 it has got to be something to do with the motivational tools. The ME hasn't changed from 11.3 so tactics can't be an issue, otherwise we would have had the same complaints about FM11. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakers Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I would really like to see what formation / tactics these people are using who can win every game they play by three goals. I'm using my own tactics (specifically avoiding the corner exploit) and it really isn't easy. Especially taking over a club bottom of the league halfway through a season! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erimus1876 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yeah' date=' if there really is a problem with FM12 it has got to be something to do with the motivational tools. The ME hasn't changed from 11.3 so tactics can't be an issue, otherwise we would have had the same complaints about FM11.[/quote']This is what I'm thinking. The only big change really is the team talks / motivation aspect, like you said the ME is practically identical to 11.3, as are the AI tactics. Maybe worth running a game without messing with team talks and see how the season pans out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeman Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I think there are plenty of simple ways in which different difficulty levels could be introduced. For instance, on higher difficulty levels it could take longer for a team to learn new tactics and to adjust to a new manager's approach, new signings could take longer to gel with their teammates, the accuracy of scout reports could be lower which would increase the number of scout reports needed to judge a player's quality, scouting nations and regions could add fewer players at a time to the player search screen. None of this would have to involve the AI cheating or change anything in the ME, but it would make it slightly more challenging especially at the beginning of a career or when starting at a new club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flohrinho Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Actually the "game is too easy with top teams" problem has been around for quite some while. Once I had build and they played my tactics for a 1 or 2 season I was usually unstoppable. I managed to win the league with 130+ goals and 36 to 38 won league games in FM10 and 11 quite regularly. So I'm not sure why this is coming up now when it has been around at least 2 years now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loversleaper Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yeah' date=' if there really is a problem with FM12 it has got to be something to do with the motivational tools. The ME hasn't changed from 11.3 so tactics can't be an issue, otherwise we would have had the same complaints about FM11.[/quote']It was already discussed in FM11... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherlover Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 The problem is 99% of people have it engrained within them that being a big club = easy level, without actually thinking about the problem in any depth. They regurgitate the same old lines over and over again about don't manage so and so if you want a tougher game. Its probably one of the reasons why that part of the game never seems to be improved upon, its a cop-out that papers over the real problem most people are unaware of. This debate has been going on for at least two years now, the problem is the AI just can't put up a decent challenge no matter who you are, either tactically or team building-wise. It doesn't matter if someone manages Man Utd or Macclesfield Town, its only a matter of time before (human) player domination sets in because your club will be the only one that adapts to the gameworld and consistantly improves itself while the rest (all AI managed) stagnate or become progressively weaker.So yes, the challenge should be there whoever you manage, big club, or minnow. Couldn't agree more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Riccardo Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 picks best team in france, wins all games, declares game is too easy... mfw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phnompenhandy Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Toffee Viola, I strongly DISagree. RR above puts it succinctly, but I can expand. I play according to my own Lower League manager rules and in the last 6 years of playing FM have never won more than 2 promotions. If you pop into the LLM forum you'll see loads of careers where many gamers have distinctly unsuccessful careers. Simply, there are many ways FM allows you to exploit features such as player search, or you can go to good player guide, or unrealistically create your own managerial persona as an ex-international footballer and take over a famous club. I don't think a gamer has ground to complain about the lack of challenge if they choose to play that way. If a gamer wants a challenge, they can restrict themselves to realistic self-imposed rules such as choosing to be an ex-Sunday League clogger, manage a part-time club with no finances, use useless scouts to find players and so on. Even in the lower leagues, it IS a heck of a challenge if you play the game that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 picks best team in france, wins all games, declares game is too easy...mfw they are not the best team in france ffs that's not what this is about anyway, congrats for missing the point of this thread like 95% of other posters in this thread have though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBanana Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I play in France, ligue 1 with Stade Malherbe Caen team. media prediction: 15eme. My position: 2nd! behind Lyon! + reach the final of Coupe de la ligue. I have the best attack of the championship. I bought nobody, and I play in a basic 4-4-2. and yes, I think the game is too easy. And once again, the french teams/players are totally over rated. but i'm not for a difficulty levels options... no way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Toffee Viola, I strongly DISagree. RR above puts it succinctly, but I can expand. I play according to my own Lower League manager rules and in the last 6 years of playing FM have never won more than 2 promotions. If you pop into the LLM forum you'll see loads of careers where many gamers have distinctly unsuccessful careers.Simply, there are many ways FM allows you to exploit features such as player search, or you can go to good player guide, or unrealistically create your own managerial persona as an ex-international footballer and take over a famous club. I don't think a gamer has ground to complain about the lack of challenge if they choose to play that way. If a gamer wants a challenge, they can restrict themselves to realistic self-imposed rules such as choosing to be an ex-Sunday League clogger, manage a part-time club with no finances, use useless scouts to find players and so on. Even in the lower leagues, it IS a heck of a challenge if you play the game that way. Why should we have to handicap ourselves for the game to be challenging? Why couldn't it offer the challenge more naturally without the need to play the game blindfolded, so to speak? picks best team in france, wins all games, declares game is too easy... That's a ridiculously silly argument. Does the best team in France win all games in reality? Or are there perhaps other teams who are at a similar level, competing for the same trophies? And teams not quite at the level but playing out of their skins to beat the best teams? Why should picking a good team in FM equate to instant success without requiring much effort? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuddBudda Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 No easier than 11, get over yourselves FM2011: in the months before christmas in our second season in the Prem as Saints we won hlaf our games, losing maybe one in five. At Xmas we lost want-away schelotto to CSKA (for 40 mil, even though he was 27 [schelotto was the best piece of buisness I ever did in any FM - a free transfer when we were still in the championshit and he just turned up on the 6-months expiring player search <3 and won us everything, much love my son]) and from a comfy 5th or 6th in Jan we finished the season in 14th. remember guys, it's a football sim you know how football is the sport where nearly anything can happen, and often does? well that 15 win streak is anything happening I notice the guys claiming to have topped the Prem with wolves and the rest haven't posted any screens And no, difficulty levels would stop the sim being a sim the idea of an artificially unbalanced 'harder' is obscene: either you'd sign messi but be forced to watch him play with clogs on kicking a medicine ball, or you'd have to hit the sweet spot with the tactical sliders every time, which would remove the personality from the football, because the game, and not your personal assessment, would be demanding that you park the mourinho bus or flourish the the wenger rapier, denying you any influence on the proceedings @SI put difficulty levels in an FM game and you'll lose me and half your fan base in one swoop Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYMYK Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I agree with the OP, kinda. I am aware that I'm playing Chelsea but I have 7/7 Friendly wins, 8/10 Premier League wins and 2/10 draws, 4/4 Champions League wins including a 6-0 win over Zenit (Home), and a 5-2 over Man. City and 4-0 over Reading in League Cup. Total: 19/21 wins and 2 draws. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I agree with the OP, kinda. I am aware that I'm playing Chelsea but I have 7/7 Friendly wins, 8/10 Premier League wins and 2/10 draws, 4/4 Champions League wins including a 6-0 win over Zenit (Home), and a 5-2 over Man. City and 4-0 over Reading in League Cup. Total: 19/21 wins and 2 draws. Use less individual team talks see if that makes it more realistic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 they are not the best team in france ffs that's not what this is about anyway, congrats for missing the point of this thread like 95% of other posters in this thread have though. The thread title states what the thread is about so I doubt the point has been missed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 The thread title states what the thread is about so I doubt the point has been missed Read the thread in more detail eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYMYK Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Use less individual team talks see if that makes it more realistic. I'm playing the demo at the moment, so I'm not even bothering winning these matches, yet here I am 19/21 and 2 draws. I rarely ever use individual talk, I ask the Ass Man to talk to the press and I follow his advice what to tell my players in almost every match. My team has been over performing with a classic winged 4-4-2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1dave Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Portstewart FC, Northern Irish 2nd Division, playing LLM rules: no search screen access, no tactics other than my own, etc etc. I've only lost 2 league games all season, 15 games in, have knocked several Premier League teams out of the League cup, and do feel that it is a little easier than previous incarnations. Now it hasn't ruined my experience of the game... yet... but if it gets easier as time goes on this will be a concern. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Well this is concerning. Having doubts whether to bother. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Read the thread in more detail eh? I have - Its unfair to state 95% of people are missing the point I also think there is a lot of stated "fact" but little to support it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I have - Its unfair to state 95% of people are missing the pointI also think there is a lot of stated "fact" but little to support it It isn't unfair whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEERHAUNTER Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I bet, if people who are unbeaten so far, play another season and I'd doubt you'd be unbeaten. (I have not got FM12 yet so I'm just basing this on my personal experiences with the previous FM's) But I'm fairly sure Second Season syndrome will take over, as now the AI are used to your tactics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 SeanNUFC-You state 95% of people are missing the point - I say its wrong. I also say 87.76% of statistics are made up I think the problem is that you just aren't prepared to listen to debate. Afterall that is what opinion is based on. Anyway I'll guve my opinion and experience so far The Match Engine for FM12 is the same as (FM11 Patch 3) with extremely minor change. Therefore the match engine is no easier or harder What influences on pitch performance.......it appears one factor is morale and how this is inflluencing results Statements like the game is easier really need a bit more qualification If you re-read the OP he says its too easy and he wants 3 difficulty settings put in. Most people are debating if it is too easy and giving an opinion on whether they want a difficulty slider. I really suggest you re-read the first postas you are just looking a bit daft with comments like that too be honest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 oops fogot my experinces to date I'm 5 games in and have won them all playing as Portsmouth. This included 1 game where I want 3-0 and had to hang on at the end to 3-2 when Reading had a comeback. Team morale is high as you would expect. I'd say it to soon for me to have an affects supporting its too easy or too hard...at the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigyboy4 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 im lincoln in the blue square and its far from easy lol cant buy a goal at the moment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 SeanNUFC-You state 95% of people are missing the point - I say its wrong. I also say 87.76% of statistics are made up I think the problem is that you just aren't prepared to listen to debate. Afterall that is what opinion is based on. Anyway I'll guve my opinion and experience so far The Match Engine for FM12 is the same as (FM11 Patch 3) with extremely minor change. Therefore the match engine is no easier or harder What influences on pitch performance.......it appears one factor is morale and how this is inflluencing results Statements like the game is easier really need a bit more qualification If you re-read the OP he says its too easy and he wants 3 difficulty settings put in. Most people are debating if it is too easy and giving an opinion on whether they want a difficulty slider. I really suggest you re-read the first postas you are just looking a bit daft with comments like that too be honest I'm prepared to listen to a debate aslong as it isn't with people who haven't been reading the thread and just look at the title/team he took over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuddBudda Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 the only screenie in this thread so far has been someone winning about one game in eight, those claiming to be winning 90%+ need to post screens of your fixture history or it's meaningless Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sando123 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 why do people have to mention they played all the cm and fm it dosnt make you a expert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Lol - I've read the thread Currently I've seen two potential game exploits. They aren't new. My point is that I'd like to see more evidence to define the OP's post around the game being too easy. With regard to his 2nd statement about and diffulty selector I disagree and in my opinion I don't think it will be implemented. Difficuly can be found selecting teams from the lower leagues and trying to progress them to glory. In terms of the OP's team I dont think that after half a season his success is simply down to the game being too easy. I'd personally like to see end of season stats Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Lol - I've read the thread Yeah i know you have now, wasn't meaning you. I can't really put forward evidence until i get the game myself but things don't look too promising just now based on what's been said and my brief experience with the demo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loversleaper Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Difficuly can be found selecting teams from the lower leagues and trying to progress them to glory. I've read this several times but I think you are not looking at something that makes this statement false. First of all, in the lower leagues there is not much value difference (attributes) between the bottom teams and the top teams. Second, it is fairly easy to find players that are too strong for your league, especially when all those players start getting free transfers. Mark my words, Lower League is a lot easier... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I think what needs to happen is some evidence needs to be put together, on both sides (easy / not easy). This way fact can substantiate opinion and it will, if required, give something for SI to consider I've noticed I've scored 3 goals from corners in 6 matches. I thought this high so I looked at the league team stats and saw Bristol have also achoeved this and many teams have scored at least 1 goal from a corner so far. In this case I could have said "oooh its easy to score from corners" but when I check the facts I note an AI team has the same stats. This is what I mean about gather facts to substantiate opinion Overall in terms of easy we know that many game managers over a number of years have progressed lower league teams to Champions League success which we know in reality is unlikely. It will be interesting over the next few weeks as people progress the game to see what the trends appear to be. It will be interesting to see what you and I find also and see how this may impact our views Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1dave Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I've read this several times but I think you are not looking at something that makes this statement false. First of all, in the lower leagues there is not much value difference (attributes) between the bottom teams and the top teams. Second, it is fairly easy to find players that are too strong for your league, especially when all those players start getting free transfers. Mark my words, Lower League is a lot easier... If you play the same way as you would the upper leagues. If you play 'the LLM way' I can assure you it should be a lot harder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonBlade Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 No way it is easier. I started playing at 11am yesterday and at 2.20am this morning (match 31) I finally got my Mjallby team to keep a clean sheet. Although my not-winning streak is still at 18 games. As the tactics and stuff don't seem to have changed that much, it's probably just due to the tones thing not giving obvious results and the usual huge influence morale has. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morten Grejs Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Fm 2012 seems to be very easy when you do the team talk yourself. so i decided to try having my ass. manager do it. hired a man with 19 in motivation and other high stats. after one full season he has yet to inspire more then 2 ppl in the same game. when i did it myself it worked alot better. so im gonna leave it up to him, or it will be to easy. my first full season was with spurs, i finished 1 (90 points) with 8 points down to utd and city. won the fa cup and lost the finals of the league cup and uefa cup. over the season i had alot of great games, but like allways i had a few meltdowns, like losing 0-4 at home to wolves. adebayor scored just over 1 goal pr. game. btw i played a 4-2-3-1 this might seem like it was very easy, but compared to the demo, it did seem harder. i got atleast 20% less for my players and players like tevez cost me around 9 mill £ more. now that my second summer is over, im finding the transfer market more spot on with the price players get sold for. and the new negotaion system rocks. All in all, if been pleased with the full version so far, alltho i do feel like alot of other long time fans of the game ( been playing since 96/97) that it's easy if you use all the toools. so my goal for spurs is to play only with english players after 5 years and only players from my own youth team after 10. and ofc get them to name the stadium after me yet again off topic how do i disable the spam of achievments that pop up. allways hated crap like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPompey Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Achievements - Once you've got all the easy ones then you may not get many more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morten Grejs Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 well after looking them over im pretty sure ill get them all but the tutorial ones and the one with keeping a cleansheet in 30 games in a row. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loversleaper Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 If you play the same way as you would the upper leagues. If you play 'the LLM way' I can assure you it should be a lot harder. What manager would not buy that potential 30 goal striker, or a goal keeper that looks like spiderman compared to what you have...? Maybe not everyone plays like me, but I spend some time in the transfers windows looking to better my squad. I don't think there is a manager on earth that wouldn't want a better player in their squad, ambition is generally hard to get around for most people... No way it is easier. I started playing at 11am yesterday and at 2.20am this morning (match 31) I finally got my Mjallby team to keep a clean sheet. Although my not-winning streak is still at 18 games. As the tactics and stuff don't seem to have changed that much, it's probably just due to the tones thing not giving obvious results and the usual huge influence morale has. You might have a point here. Morale could cause those type of scenarios where you either go on a fantastic run or have poor form over a periode of time. Poor form usually last longer when you don't know what to change... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest El Payaso Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 SI should make the tactical side of the game more complicated and harder in order to make it harder to succeed with bigger clubs. I haven't tried FM12 yet but in FM11 I almost won Premierleague in first season with Aston Villa. Didn't buy anyone and certainly didn't put too much effort in my tactics. IMO it's too easy to get "the best out of your team", especially in attacking play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1dave Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 What manager would not buy that potential 30 goal striker, or a goal keeper that looks like spiderman compared to what you have...? Maybe not everyone plays like me, but I spend some time in the transfers windows looking to better my squad. I don't think there is a manager on earth that wouldn't want a better player in their squad, ambition is generally hard to get around for most people... There's many reasons why you wouldn't get that striker. He could be a premier division striker for whom it's unrealistic for you to sign. He could live in the north of England and you're playing in the BSS. It's entirely up to the rules you play by in LLM as to how realistic a signing is. I agree with what people are saying re: it's as easy or as hard as you make it in that respect. But like I said before, from what I've seen so far I've found it a bit easier than previous incarnations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoopy05 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Playing as York City i dont find the game easy one bit, i like a challenge thats why i picked a team like York. People saying its too easy should try and take a team like York up the divisions instead of going a team that has money. Think the game is excellant the way it is, if it where to get alot harder than it is it would put me and i think alot of others of buying/playing future versions of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo14 Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 I did a season with Marseille in Fm2011 38 match, 36 wins, 126 goals scored and 12 goals against 29 consecutive wins 102 games unbeaten But not the game is not too easy!! I regret that FM2012 is so easy, even if I am an experienced player An adjustable level of difficulty would be nice I think Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 lol 112 goals scored 12 against is just stupid. Marseille are not Barcelona. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 lol 112 goals scored 12 against is just stupid. Marseille are not Barcelona. In 19 years anything is possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Ah right, yeh,lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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