srvngrc Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 but it is a simulation not a game. it must be realistic. at least manager's salary should effect his/her popularity. maybe buying cars etc. could be pointless but i think that money must be usable for something else Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave80 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 but it is a simulation not a game. it must be realistic. at least manager's salary should effect his/her popularity. maybe buying cars etc. could be meanless but i think that money must be usable for something else A post above suggests "something else".. In regards to "it's a simulation", I think it's a mixture of both. As far as "buying cars" goes, that'd be a waste of time - what would be the point? It wouldn't benefit you in any way. I'd rather SI spent time improving key areas than adding the ability to buy a car or a house! If salary was used to benefit the player directly in the game, such as Coaching Badges or Language Courses then I'd be 100% behind it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFCAlex Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 IMHO the manager salary is useless, even if it simulates the reality.I prefer to have those money into the cashier box instead, ready to help to buy new players, or to help to pay for debts... Totally agree you could still get the salary for realism but it shouldnt come out of the clubs wage budget as it can limit you financially when playing as a lower club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Totally agree you could still get the salary for realism but it shouldnt come out of the clubs wage budget as it can limit you financially when playing as a lower club. surely thats a contradiction, you want it there for the sake of realism, but not coming out of the clubs finances, where would it come from then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Because clubs never go bankrupt in FM land due to legal reasons. They'll enter administration but eventually climb their way out of it. Yes, I've seen points deductions but never mass releases of players due to funds and wages not being paid. It's weird how people only complain about realism when it suits them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lem Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Are you sure? For the first time last night, in my game in 2029, I had a message in my newsfeedd stating 'The PFA have had to step in to pay West Hams player bill, and imposed transfer restrictions' or words to that effect. I cant wait to see what happens the following month, could be down to what news you subscribe to? (My Truro team are chasing a quadruple at present) I've seen teams sign CVA's and get deductions, but not players being paid by the PFA. I'm subscribed to one team who has a CVA, so I took them over to save them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
srvngrc Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 A post above suggests "something else"..In regards to "it's a simulation", I think it's a mixture of both. As far as "buying cars" goes, that'd be a waste of time - what would be the point? It wouldn't benefit you in any way. I'd rather SI spent time improving key areas than adding the ability to buy a car or a house! If salary was used to benefit the player directly in the game, such as Coaching Badges or Language Courses then I'd be 100% behind it. of course buying car or house would be waste of time. for ex. when a player performed well manager can reward him with a bonus by using own money. that's a simple example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUFCAlex Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Well theres a point. I just dont like taking money out or my clubs wage budget when it could go towards getting better players for my team, even though it is a relatively small amount every little helps when managing a financially less stable club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispypaul Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 but it is a simulation not a game. it must be realistic. at least manager's salary should effect his/her popularity. maybe buying cars etc. could be pointless but i think that money must be usable for something else Shouldn't you be at training Mr Barton? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Welsh Lad Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I wouldn't be interested in buying cars or houses etc. But I would be interested in learning new languages because 1.) it would help in communication with new players that don't speak english. 2.) If your thinking of taking over a foreign club or nation then learning the language first will help in communication. Whether or not you use your wages to pay for it is another matter I would just like the opportuntiy to broaden my language skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Riz Remes Posted September 23, 2011 SI Staff Share Posted September 23, 2011 Well theres a point. I just dont like taking money out or my clubs wage budget when it could go towards getting better players for my team, even though it is a relatively small amount every little helps when managing a financially less stable club. I think the question comes down to this analysis: "How many real life managers at professional clubs are working for free or a significantly reduced salary compared to other managers in their league in order to make more money available for the playing budget ?" If you can make a case for this being common in real life, then you have a case to argue but I would think most managers still have regular living expenses and need to draw a normal salary as they are not just sitting at a computer on their free time for a few hours a day to manage their club Yes, we do not actually simulate living expenses and other things where the salaries paid out in the game can/could go towards in real life. However that isn't limited to managers, but everyone in the gameworld as money is paid out of the clubs to players, but we don't simulate their personal economies either. When it comes to simulating the financial side of the game, I think limiting it to the club finances is pretty sensible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky1989 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I'm not keen on the idea, would be a pointless addition. Plus, I find the idea of my boss sitting on a trunk filled with about a million quid+ that I've earned over years of management, not having been able to buy a house, a car, or even any new clothes in years.....quite hilarious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave80 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 of course buying car or house would be waste of time. for ex. when a player performed well manager can reward him with a bonus by using own money. that's a simple example. What manager do you know that's given a player a bonus out of his own pocket? You argue for realism but what you are suggesting is the complete opposite! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 I think the question comes down to this analysis: "How many real life managers at professional clubs are working for free or a significantly reduced salary compared to other managers in their league in order to make more money available for the playing budget ?"If you can make a case for this being common in real life, then you have a case to argue but I would think most managers still have regular living expenses and need to draw a normal salary as they are not just sitting at a computer on their free time for a few hours a day to manage their club Yes, we do not actually simulate living expenses and other things where the salaries paid out in the game can/could go towards in real life. However that isn't limited to managers, but everyone in the gameworld as money is paid out of the clubs to players, but we don't simulate their personal economies either. When it comes to simulating the financial side of the game, I think limiting it to the club finances is pretty sensible. You are right Riz but in the reality there are also black market bids involved into matches and this of course can't be inserted into FM. So, sometimes, getting 100% stick with the reality can't be valid as a reason, therefore I deploy a question. How about to let the manager wage be moved into the team balance as an option to flag ? Who desire it as it is can leave it as it is and who wants to use it can move the money into the team balance. Of course this is a minor feature, not fundamental at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWaRFeGa Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 You are right Riz but in the reality there are also black market bids involved into matches and this of course can't be inserted into FM.So, sometimes, getting 100% stick with the reality can't be valid as a reason, therefore I deploy a question. How about to let the manager wage be moved into the team balance as an option to flag ? Who desire it as it is can leave it as it is and who wants to use it can use it. Of course this is a minor feature, not fundamental at all. You can't make EVERYTHING an "optional feature" just because a couple of people want it incorporated into the game. Managers get paid wages, players get paid wages. That's pretty much the end of it. What next? The option to disable losing games? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 What next? The option to disable losing games? LOL I consider that a minor feature therefore toggling it on or off I guess it would make no such a difference for purists. Are you really sure you never diverted from the reality road anyway ? I mean, if you are loosing a match and the pc crashes and when reloading the match you win, what do you do for the sake of reality ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWaRFeGa Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Are you really sure you never diverted from the reality road anyway ? I mean, if you are loosing a match and the pc crashes and when reloading the match you win, what do you do for the sake of reality ? It's not the reality that concerns me - it's the unreality. (Is that a word? Hmm...) There is no such case of managers saying "Hey Chairman, don't pay me. Your money is no good here. Spend it on players!" Don't you think that's unfair to the other 17+ teams in the league? Those managers get paid out of the clubs finances. As for PC Crashes, I've never had one during a game. No doubt I would allow the result to be whatever it had to be upon reloading. I wouldn't attempt to reload the game 17 times to gain a matching result. If it's crashed mid-game then the end result could have been anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Very unlikely to happen in any Football Manager game in the foreseeable future and as Ackter correctly said, if you negotiate a tiny wage on your contract to save 'club resources' it means you're much more vulnerable to being sacked as the club will only need to pay a tiny amount in compensation to get rid of you. this +1 why anyone would give their club a cart blanch to sack you is beyond me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 but we don't simulate their personal economies either. When it comes to simulating the financial side of the game, I think limiting it to the club finances is pretty sensible. I think this is one thing missing within football manager. After 100 years, it's still €1m for winning a cup etc. i think if it was scaled up slightly each year. Or scaled down every now and then. So winning the league you might get €20m and the next year you'd get €17m. So it wouldn't be set in stone. But a random multiplier to bring it up and down. This would also mean after 30 years, winning the league you'd get €90m. Don't get me wrong. I also think players wages, and price tags, as well as staff should also go up and down randomly (small percentage multiplier) to try simulate economic fluctuations. These are are all googleable - and you can get a good idea on how the monetary value changes over years, decades and centuries. This would add an air of fun to the game. When Alan Shearer in 1996 signed for Newcastle it was a record fee of £15m stg. Which is very small in todays terms. The way it adds fun is increasing the record bids in signing players. I could go 100 years into the game and still be signing players for €20m. Which in a hundred years people will have €20m notes in their wallets for bus fares lol. All joking aside, I think it should be included. As it would be worthy news items: In the year 2050 "Barcelona break record for signing teenage youngster for €80m" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Also in 2100 my transfer budget does be about a €600m so signing the worlds best is childs play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 The thing is tho Eugeen it would start getting very complicated. As you say the price paid for Shearer is the norm now a days, but we have experience to tell us this. It would get to the point where you would have to work out if the value of your £20m before deciding if its worth spending on a player. We can only use today as our comparison as we have no real idea what the value of a pound will be in 20 years, so how would you work out the value of your £20m? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I got a B+ in honours Economics in 1998. So bear with me lol. http://www.coinnews.net/tools/cpi-inflation-calculator/consumer-price-index-cpi-and-annual-percent-changes-from-1913-to-2008/ You can work out an average rate of inflation there over the decades. The put a +/- for each decade. Then spread it out over the year. It's just an idea. I'd love to spend €500m on a player some day lol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielgear Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I always wonder why people want their earnings to be reusable? Surely the game already gives us enough to do with managing, scouting, balancing the books, watching a certain player play etc that we dont need to decide whether we want a semi or detached 4 bed house in the country and a merc to get us to training and back. My personal opinion is the wage part is there for a reason, the more success you have the more interest other clubs take in you therefore you can command a higher wage if club intends to keep you and so in rough patches your job stays more secure. I always tell the board i want a wage that i think i deserve, Sometimes when i apply for jobs i have been turn't down due to compensation figures but i feel they could put in the option to say board current board accept a lower compensation or ill walk or ill stay for a higher wage. Like people say managers don't take a pay cut so they can get in that Striker the club cant quite afford so that shouldn't be possible in the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grep Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 It's not the reality that concerns me - it's the unreality. (Is that a word? Hmm...)There is no such case of managers saying "Hey Chairman, don't pay me. Your money is no good here. Spend it on players!" Don't you think that's unfair to the other 17+ teams in the league? Those managers get paid out of the clubs finances. As for PC Crashes, I've never had one during a game. No doubt I would allow the result to be whatever it had to be upon reloading. I wouldn't attempt to reload the game 17 times to gain a matching result. If it's crashed mid-game then the end result could have been anything. Hmmm....you should be more flexible speaking about possible options, speaking about " unreality " ... have you ever seen conversations between a manager and one o his player being so " unreal " and self reiterate ? I lough sometimes because before choosing the answer I already know the player will react in 2-3 different ways , like a U.S. Robotics modem of '80 eras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don643 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I can't stress enough how pointless of having career earnings when you can't even use your own money you earn. They should definitely let you able to use your money to (for example) invest in lower league teams and help them out abit. Even real managers do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I can't stress enough how pointless of having career earnings when you can't even use your own money you earn. They should definitely let you able to use your money to (for example) invest in lower league teams and help them out abit. Even real managers do it. Wages have a point - They give you job security with your current club but make it less likely to receive a job offer from other clubs. SI have said spending manager wages will never be an option within FM but should the option ever be considered I presume you mean after the manager has paid income tax, council tax, utility bills, food costs, insurance costs, mortgage etc etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don643 Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Wages have a point - They give you job security with your current club but make it less likely to receive a job offer from other clubs.SI have said spending manager wages will never be an option within FM but should the option ever be considered I presume you mean after the manager has paid income tax, council tax, utility bills, food costs, insurance costs, mortgage etc etc. I mean like after earning so much from a club you've managed then wanting to move on to a different club but using your money to help them out, especially taking over a in-debt club. It would be a useful tool imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankchickens1 Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Its a nonsense idea, and thankfully SI have ruled it out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
askep Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 If you don't think it's unrealistic to not get paid (very well) for the job you do, load up FMRTE and change your salary to a pound per week or something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I got a B+ in honours Economics in 1998. So bear with me lol.http://www.coinnews.net/tools/cpi-inflation-calculator/consumer-price-index-cpi-and-annual-percent-changes-from-1913-to-2008/ You can work out an average rate of inflation there over the decades. The put a +/- for each decade. Then spread it out over the year. It's just an idea. I'd love to spend €500m on a player some day lol. Wouldn't is just be cosmetic though? Value will still be value whatever currency amount we stick on it. If you are saying just from a "kinda cool" standpoint, I don't see why not, but I would hope a feature like that would be an afterthought after SI addresses some of the more pressing concerns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mufctimmyg Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 what i dont understand is why when you are international manager you dont get a salary. that isnt realistic Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 what i dont understand is why when you are international manager you dont get a salary. that isnt realistic Because it won't affect the game world. As you read above, the manager salary is tied to how likely you are to get sacked or poached by a another club. There is nothing in international management that requires a manager salary. It would merely a cosmetic thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 You can be sacked in international management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 You can be sacked in international management. But only based on performance. National teams don't have finances so having a manager salary is not needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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