I haven't enjoyed FM since 2007, is 2010 any good?

[BenArsenal]

I'm one of the semi-dissenters. FM10 is alright, but it doesn't hold my interest the way FM07 did. FM10 is filled with a remarkable number of speedbumps that slow down the pace of play, which I really detest. Pre-game press conferences, transfer press conferences, backroom meetings, seemingly endless transfer speculation about players you'd never sign in a million years... not to mention the pestilential fans, who don't fathom that fighting back to earn an away draw for Sheff Wed against Chelsea is a good result-- not a bad result. It all detracts from the core gameplay: signing players, tweaking tactics, and, heaven forbid, playing matches!

FM07 was beautiful for its simplicity: you buy players, make a tactic, and play a match. Tweak your tactic. Then you play another match. Then another. And another. No press conferences between matches, no irrelevant backroom advice every two weeks, no fans complaining about good results. Everything you did in that game was geared towards transfers, tactics, or matches. No metagames.

If SI took the training system of CM03/04 and the scouting system of FM10 and inserted those elements in FM07, I'd be a happy man. I always loved actually being able to assign "real" training activities to my players, rather than just using sliders. It was complicated, but more enjoyable. As for scouting, FM10 makes that aspect much easier, especially in terms of star ratings, personality sorting, and the layout of reports for each player.

I'd recommend sticking with FM07 for the next couple of weeks, and then giving the FM11 demo a whirl. Features that might have been a bit rough in FM10 may well have been smoothed over, making for a better experience.

That's a better explaination of what I think.

[Kazza]

FM10 is probably the best of the bunch for me. It has a lot of depth and you really need to think through your tactics! Also there's so much going on which I really enjoy which makes it feel more immersvie a game. For sheer excitment loved cm2, then the anticipation of 3D that was great. I much prefer 3D but that's a different debate.

FM11 - definatley looking forward to this version. Have pre-ordered but there's been so much information re the game that the added excitement of what will be in/out has lost it's resonance for me. Won't stop me playing it on the 5th though has Steam deliver it to my PC!

Wait for this game as it will be FM10 with enhancements and new features so you get the best of FM10 repackaged, rewaxed and renewed.

K

[edgar555]

Pfft I think not.

If you have a problem with my post then try reading one of the several hundred threads discussing it rather than trying to goad me.

Not biting.

I don't think you are being goaded at all, your reaction is way overboard.

10 is generally considered one of, if not the best ever after 10.3 so it would be interesting to hear what you consider is still broken.

Chill dude, not everyone in GD is after a fight (most are but I don't think aussieant falls into that category).

EDIT: it also doesn't do the OP any favours by you saying 'gamebreakers' and then not actually saying what they are.

[crouchaldinho]

FM07 was beautiful for its simplicity: you buy players, make a tactic, and play a match. Tweak your tactic. Then you play another match. Then another. And another. No press conferences between matches, no irrelevant backroom advice every two weeks, no fans complaining about good results. Everything you did in that game was geared towards transfers, tactics, or matches. No metagames.

On the flip side of the coin, FM10 makes a whole bunch of stuff way easier than FM07 did. Little things like the coach reports and assistant manager ratings, the tactics creator and other little things making it an easier gaming experience and less of a chore. However, I do understand the general point you are making and I even agree to an extent. But I couldn't go back to FM07 now because there would be so many positive things missing from my point of view.

[Fabio MVP]

Ya'll can talk whatever you want, but FM10.3 is the best football managment simulation so far ever. Let's hope FM11 will beat that.

[La Furia Roja]

I don't think you are being goaded at all, your reaction is way overboard.

10 is generally considered one of, if not the best ever after 10.3 so it would be interesting to hear what you consider is still broken.

Chill dude, not everyone in GD is after a fight (most are but I don't think aussieant falls into that category).

EDIT: it also doesn't do the OP any favours by you saying 'gamebreakers' and then not actually saying what they are.

Thank you, he probably just misunderstood my tone.

[crouchaldinho]

Ya'll can talk whatever you want, but FM10.3 is the best football managment simulation so far ever. Let's hope FM11 will beat that.

Amen !

[Müller1469564937]

I've found the opposite, I've played more seasons on FM2010 than any other version. The most I'd done before this was with FM2006.

I'm with you on this one. The first FM I bought was FM08, but FM10 is the best version of the game I've played yet. I also thought it was the most addictive game out of the previous two I'd played before.

FM10>FM08>FM09

[crouchaldinho]

I'm with you on this one. The first FM I bought was FM08, but FM10 is the best version of the game I've played yet. I also thought it was the most addictive game out of the previous two I'd played before.

FM10>FM08>FM09

For me, it is:

FM10>FM08=FM07>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FM09

[Brend]

On the flip side of the coin, FM10 makes a whole bunch of stuff way easier than FM07 did. Little things like the coach reports and assistant manager ratings, the tactics creator and other little things making it an easier gaming experience and less of a chore. However, I do understand the general point you are making and I even agree to an extent. But I couldn't go back to FM07 now because there would be so many positive things missing from my point of view.

Coach Reports - Don't use.

Assistant Ratings - Don't use.

Tactics Creator - Don't use, because I use classic tactics.

Basically, much of FM10 doesn't do much for me. None of the reports are at all useful for me, because everything I need to know is easily obtainable by Genie Scout, which I will freely admit to using. Then again, I must admit to being somewhat odd-- I enjoy sifting through Genie Scout and looking at hundreds of potential signings to try and find a bargain. There's something cathartic to sifting data.

[crouchaldinho]

So you cheat instead then.

[Brend]

So you cheat instead then.

The knowledge and tools are out there. I feel no guilt for seeking out the best information available.

[dafuge]

The knowledge and tools are out there. I feel no guilt for seeking out the best information available.

The trouble with looking at the raw data is that it removes the footballing realism built into the game. The scout/coach reports give a 'realistic' view on ability/potential, by using genie scout you are bypassing the realistic view and jumping straight to the truth. You will miss out on all the over-hyped youngsters and late bloomers by playing that way as you are removing all risk involved in signing a young player.

[grade]

You people do know your talking about a game, right? What if he cheats that his perrogative and not yours.

Dudes, we are talking about peace of software that has the intention to promote fun (despite I think has been seriously overlooked, but that is for another thread) and people enjoy it. How about agree that many people play differently then you or I, and go on with life. there is far more important things in life then bickering how you should play a game.

I cheated on Crysis, so what?

[La Furia Roja]

You people do know your talking about a game, right? What if he cheats that his perrogative and not yours.

Dudes, we are talking about peace of software that has the intention to promote fun (despite I think has been seriously overlooked, but that is for another thread) and people enjoy it. How about agree that many people play differently then you or I, and go on with life. there is far more important things in life then bickering how you should play a game.

I cheated on Crysis, so what?

over reaction much? there is hardly bickering going on. The poster was saying that he doesnt like fm10 cause of the features he doesnt use, but the reason he doesnt use them is becasue he uses and external tool instead, gee mate..

[chob]

whilst I believe the game itself is very good I haven't had the chance to get into fm10 properly due to the crash dumps, my best save was on FM09 which I still go back yo every now and then.

[sparkysrovers]

I also thought FM07 was the best version and to be honest - FM10 is up there at the top with it (in 2nd place though), however I think you will like FM10 if you hated 08 and 09!

[Brend]

The trouble with looking at the raw data is that it removes the footballing realism built into the game. The scout/coach reports give a 'realistic' view on ability/potential, by using genie scout you are bypassing the realistic view and jumping straight to the truth. You will miss out on all the over-hyped youngsters and late bloomers by playing that way as you are removing all risk involved in signing a young player.

To be fair, in FM there is no 'realism' in its starkest terms. We're manipulating data, creating data, and removing data-- nothing more. We're not waking up at 5AM, arriving at Anfield at 7AM, and beginning a long day of transfer negotiations, before finally arriving home late in the day, Blackberry attached at the hip, waiting for an agent to call. We're never going to be sitting in an office, talking to one of our physios and debating about what the best course of action is for a young player who tends to over-pronate, making him more prone to ankle injuries. There's no way FM will ever capture anything akin to that. So it remains a game, albeit one that involves more emotional investment than most.

Also, I would debate the use of the term "cheating"-- it's a single-player game, and 'cheating' ascribes some sort of moral and ethical component to simply looking at more data.

[Neji]

To be fair, in FM there is no 'realism' in its starkest terms.

But there is a sense of realism.

[Danielos]

If people like to cheat and use Genie Scout, it´s their problem, but for me it really takes away all the immense challenge and the sense of "fair play". What is the sense of pride and achievement of building a great team and winning if you can never go wrong and never give already AI-limited opponents a fair chance? Baaahhh...

[crouchaldinho]

To be fair, in FM there is no 'realism' in its starkest terms. We're manipulating data, creating data, and removing data-- nothing more. We're not waking up at 5AM, arriving at Anfield at 7AM, and beginning a long day of transfer negotiations, before finally arriving home late in the day, Blackberry attached at the hip, waiting for an agent to call. We're never going to be sitting in an office, talking to one of our physios and debating about what the best course of action is for a young player who tends to over-pronate, making him more prone to ankle injuries. There's no way FM will ever capture anything akin to that. So it remains a game, albeit one that involves more emotional investment than most.

Also, I would debate the use of the term "cheating"-- it's a single-player game, and 'cheating' ascribes some sort of moral and ethical component to simply looking at more data.

I'm sorry but that's just rubbish really, isn't it?

Your argument basically seems to be that FM can never reach a level of perfect realism and so therefore it is fine for you to ruin all illusion of realism by using a third-party tool to reveal all of the hidden data that the gamer is not supposed to see. It's just nonsense.

Ultimately, whatever spin you want to put on it, you are violating the rules of the game to gain an advantage. That's cheating, exploiting and whatever else you want to call it.

Each to their own, of course, and clearly it's your choice how you play the game. Personally, I really don't see the fun in it (or the need to do it in the first place) and I certainly don't think that you defend it in the way that you are attempting to. You are creating an advantage beyond the normal game-play that FM offers and you are doing so in order to make the game easier. That is cheating, whichever way you look at it.

[Brend]

I'm sorry but that's just rubbish really, isn't it?

Your argument basically seems to be that FM can never reach a level of perfect realism and so therefore it is fine for you to ruin all illusion of realism by using a third-party tool to reveal all of the hidden data that the gamer is not supposed to see. It's just nonsense.

I love how you try to make a moral issue out of simply seeing more data. I also love how you put words in my mouth I've never said. Furthermore, from parsing the EULA, you can see that SI explicitly agree with my assertation that it is all just data:

All statistics contained within the Football Data are researched or computer generated and intended to be fair. However they are not intended to be and should not be relied upon or considered a true reflection of the abilities or performances of any individual club or player but a computerised interpretation of data given to it or generated by it. [emphasis mine]

therefore it is fine for you to ruin all illusion of realism

Yet another thing I love: you say later that "to each their own" and yet you try to cast the issue in the most stark terms you can, condemning me for ruining the game. Hypocrit much?

Ultimately, whatever spin you want to put on it, you are violating the rules of the game to gain an advantage. That's cheating, exploiting and whatever else you want to call it.

Where are these so-called "rules" written down? Where, in the program itself, or on the official website of Sports Interactive, does it say that a person is not allowed to view hidden attributes? Where, in the EULA, does it say that I'm not allowed to view Joe Smith's Consistency attribute, or see how injury prone he is?

However, we've gotten rather far afield from the original topic at hand. The features I don't use are of no consequence to my argument that it's really the 'speedbumps' and metagames that make FM10 less enjoyable than FM07.

[crouchaldinho]

Wow Brend, you seem to have completely missed the point as well as totally misrepresenting what I've said. Quite an achievement really.

[Brend]

Wow Brend, you seem to have completely missed the point as well as totally misrepresenting what I've said. Quite an achievement really.

All you did was pontificate about how using an editor violates the "rules" of the game. I pointed out that there are no "rules" to appeal to, in this case.

In order for one to cheat, there need to be rules that can be broken. If there are no rules, ipso facto, there can be no cheating. Again, I challenge you: where does it state that a person is not allowed to view Joe Smith's Consistency attribute, or his injury proneness? That would be a rule. That would make it so that you had a valid, logically consistent point about cheating. So? Please... show me where the rule is written down by SI.

[crouchaldinho]

Dear Brend, I hope this link helps - Wikipedia Article - Cheating in Video Games

Cheating in video games involves a video game player using non-standard methods for creating an advantage beyond normal gameplay, usually to make the game easier

[...]

Cheats may be activated from within the game itself (a cheat code implemented by the original game developers); or be created by third-party software

[La Furia Roja]

i would think that using a tool like genie scout to see what youngsters etc have the best pa and signing them falls under "non-standard methods for creating an advantage beyond normal gameplay, usually to make the game easier" and "Cheats created by third-party software "

i mean it means that you know how the player will probably turn out without using scouts etc?

or am i missing the point?

[roganp]

I loved FM07 and FM08 but I think that FM10 is even better cant wait for FM11

[Brend]

/me yawns.

I like the selective copy-paste from Wikipedia. The rest of the article doesn't list anything else that's even remotely applicable to the subject at hand. It's always nice when you can take things out of context to make a point. Saves so much effort actually coming up with a factual argument.

Genie Scout doesn't... use cheat codes; act as a memory editer; inject code; modify data; forge network traffic; create unusual effects. All of the subcategories of the Wiki article don't apply to how I use the Genie Scout.

Genie Scout does... display a player's CA and PA, as well as his hidden attributes. These things are all mostly knowable through scout reports, player personality, and media handling profile. Genie Scout cuts out the decipherment. As it stands, it takes me 30+ hours per season, while using Genie Scout to help with scouting. Without it, I'd likely indulge my obsessive streak and spend another 30 hours just scouting players by going through every team in every league I have loaded and scouting every young player worth anything.

[La Furia Roja]

"Again, I challenge you: where does it state that a person is not allowed to view Joe Smith's Consistency attribute, or his injury proneness? That would be a rule. That would make it so that you had a valid, logically consistent point about cheating. So? Please... show me where the rule is written down by SI. " - Yes you are right in saying that there is no written rule, but then given that SI do not let you see this in any way is pretty clear that they dont want these stats to be seen. Would you consider someone changing all their players attributes to 20? Or giving themselves 500 million in the transfer kitty using a save game editor cheating? Show me the rule that says you cant?

End of the day there is no right and wrong, it's everyones matter of opinion, mine is that using a scouting tool is cheating as the info you get is not meant to be seen and you find those players every time and the AI won't, but as crouch said, it's your game, do what you want.

I do have a question that I'd like to hear Brend's or anyone else using a scouting tool, response on, let's say you have a scout with jpa of 15, so reasonably reliable but not always accurate, you scout 2 17 year old wingers, one has slightly better stats but they are both pretty similar, he gives both 4 stars and says you should buy them, but you can only afford one. You flick your scouting tool on and one has a pa of 180 and one has 170, who would you buy and why?

[cynet]

FM07 has a much better match engine and less cosmetic nonsense you have in FM10, so in my opinion FM07 is still the best in the series so far.

[Danielos]

Brend, do your AI-opponents in the game use Genie Scout? If not, I think they would call you a cheater if they could...

[Alegeeter]

To me Genie Scout should be used for the beginners of football management games. After a while of doing well you should use it less and less and try and do it all yourself.

[Danielos]

To me Genie Scout should be used for the beginners of football management games. After a while of doing well you should use it less and less and try and do it all yourself.

Not really. The game isn´t that hard even without Genie Scout. You just need to have a little more patience.

[Alegeeter]

Not really. The game isn´t that hard even without Genie Scout. You just need to have a little more patience.

I agree but some people don't think like that. They think the game is far too complicated. As long as they use Genie Scout to learn about the game, I think it's okay.

[shwan]

that is the first year I enjoy FM..and can't wait for FM11

[Neji]

Again, I challenge you: where does it state that a person is not allowed to view Joe Smith's Consistency attribute, or his injury proneness? That would be a rule. That would make it so that you had a valid, logically consistent point about cheating. So? Please... show me where the rule is written down by SI.

IMO if SI wanted you to see them they'd put them in the game. I guess you define what is cheating and what isn't yourself.

I know I've had games where I've used Genie Scout and it just takes out all the sense of achievement, for me I know I'm cheating (and for me, it is cheating) and it ruins the game completely.

[StevoRobbo]

IMO if SI wanted you to see them they'd put them in the game. I guess you define what is cheating and what isn't yourself.

I know I've had games where I've used Genie Scout and it just takes out all the sense of achievement, for me I know I'm cheating (and for me, it is cheating) and it ruins the game completely.

This

Actually the info is in the game, you just need to look properly. You can look at the players injury history and judge for yourself how injury prone he is. Also you can check his ratings for every game (I know its time consuming but its there non the less) to see how consistent he is. You just need to look properly yourself and judge for yourself.

[GioGio85]

I tend to avoid using anything that isnt in the game as it comes boxed (apart from the patches and maybe the odd skin/player image) as although it isnt cheating per say, it doesn tarnish my own sense of personal achievement. Each player to their own though.

[La Furia Roja]

This

Actually the info is in the game, you just need to look properly. You can look at the players injury history and judge for yourself how injury prone he is. Also you can check his ratings for every game (I know its time consuming but its there non the less) to see how consistent he is. You just need to look properly yourself and judge for yourself.

I'll disagree in a certain way, while what you said is correct, if you are looking to find all the new regens and newgens, your not really going to get a form history or injury history on a 16 year old, so you would need to use a tool to find that info.

Older players yu are 100% correct.

[wwfan]

For me, the issue with Genie Scout is that it takes out some interesting decisions for the manager. It is extremely easy for any manager to build a world class side from youngsters he grabs at an early age, trains up and ensures loyalty from. Not a great challenge. It also stops the following type of scenarios happening:

Scenario One: I was looking for a DMC to add some protection in front of a talented but relatively inexperienced back line. I discovered a player who, by the age of 29, had won two caps for France and spent his career playing at French and Italian teams just failing to make Champions League spots. He looked like he'd be available on a free at the end of the season and, with good professionalism and natural fitness, seemed worth offering a contract to in the short-term. Although he took a while adjusting to living in Spain (I was managing Atletico Madrid) and was unhappy for six months, he adjusted to life in the capital and began to become a mainstay of the side and a regular for the national team. He remained a first choice until he was 34 and a rotation player until he was 36. He was still playing for France while being relegated to backup status in his final season at the age of 37.

If I had employed Genie Scout, I'd have either known he still had the opportunity to be a really good player or decided not to buy him because I knew he wouldn't be. As I didn't know either, I had the great satisfaction of watching him bloom late in his career and win a half century of caps. I trusted in my reading of his stats and my decision making, saw it come off, and was justly rewarded by the player fully contributing towards the club winning a number of titles and trophies.

Scenario Two: When the same player began to struggle to produce two high level performances a week, I looked at bringing in younger legs to help him out. Because I was confident he would still perform in the big matches and wanted to focus my spending on bringing in a left winger and a right back, my budget for other rotation players was pretty small. I ended up settling on two players with reasonable looking stats but poor reputations. One was a creative DMC who was good in the air but lacking strength and stamina. The other was short, less good on the ball but stronger and more defensively sound. For the first two years I had them, they rotated into the games my other DMC wasn't fit for. If I was playing a weak side I'd start the creative player. If I was playing a better side, I'd start the more defensively sound player. Both were about 20 and my staff really didn't rate them.

Five years later and they are both mainstays of their national teams (Slovenia for the creative DMC, Argentina for the defensive one). I still use the Slovenian as a rotation player, trusting him to do a good job against the weaker sides, but generally keeping on the bench for the big matches. The Argentinian has become, despite my coaches still telling me he shouldn't be first choice, my starting anchor man in a 4-2-3-1 formation. They do their jobs excellently, win titles and caps, and remain exceedingly loyal to the club and its manager. With Genie Scout, I again wouldn't have bought them or sold them on for better alternatives that I knew would become world class. My decisions for big matches would simply be based on knowing how good they were, rather than reading their stats and deciding who was best suitable for which game. That's not management, but number crunching. These players have done well because I have fitted them into my vision of how I want the team to play, not because I know what their hard-coded CA/PA is. Much more satisfying in my book.

[aderow]

This is kinda the reason I stopped using genie scout and fmrte

[StevoRobbo]

I'll disagree in a certain way, while what you said is correct, if you are looking to find all the new regens and newgens, your not really going to get a form history or injury history on a 16 year old, so you would need to use a tool to find that info.

Older players yu are 100% correct.

Well yes I didnt mean this for newgens that have just appeared. They have no history. I meant for older players that have been around for a few seasons. All the info you need is there.

I use mini FMRTE all the time now as a scout tool purely to view CA/PA. Ive been playing CM/FM since I was 11 years old and obviously as a kid I just wanted to win games and have the best teams to I obviously used Diablo tactics and a tool to find the best players. Now im 25 and I really want to play the game properly and find these new gems for myself and get maximum satisfaction of winning and building a team off my own back but I always end up going back to FMRTE. I dont know why. I just get to a point where I NEED to know how good my new signing really is or how far the have progressed and who are my best players for each position. I still massively enjoy the game but I really wish I'd have never used one of these tools now.

[Neji]

I still massively enjoy the game but I really wish I'd have never used one of these tools now.

I'm with you there, when I was young I was always using cheats or editors. It took me ages to get off them. I sometimes have games where I do just mess around with them but in my proper career games I always resist now because it really does spoil any sense of achievement you would otherwise get.

[BenArsenal]

I have never used an external tool when playing FM. Except for graphical logopacks I play FM as it is.