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The Let us Laugh at England thread

Pires777

By Pires777,
in 2010 World Cup Forum

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Euros have been expanded to 24 teams hasn't it. Should be more chance of Scotland, Wales, N.Ireland, Ireland qualifying. Which can only be a good thing. :thup:

Definitely looking forward to seeing this Wales team come to fruition. Scotland, less so.

Scotland are going to be a decent, tough side for the next few years at least.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Tbf I am basing my impression of him almost entirely from that ad. I've not read any of his columns in years. But I am surprised to hear that he's almost sensible.

We do sometimes get pundits being a little different over here as they won't be seen back home where they maybe have to be a little more positive, it's the same for Premier League pundits, sometimes open up a little more and be a bit more critical on TV here.

He's talked at length about us not being able to effect games and control them in the way Spain and the like do, we defend well, have always produced good defenders so that will always go some way towards getting us results and a few players further up that can do damage so this will win us games but never totally dominate opposition in a tournament.

You can sense his frustration with things as someone that has been on the other side and has some insight into things.

... Peter Reid just says the same things as Tel but in a different order to make himself sound intelligent :D

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CrowBar

CrowBar

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It's quite obvious Mr. Capello is totally unsuitable for the job, he can hardly speak English, he is an Italian coach and bullies his assistant-trainers. Fair enough that you hire a foreign coach, but seriously this guy really isn't suited for English tactics. Why the f*** would you place Gerrard and Lampard as a defensive midfielder? (at least it looks like they were doing their usual jobs @ there club wrong @ their national team)

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Rhino

Rhino

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So we can laugh at you when you don't qualify yeah?

No, cos we're at least moderately realistic about our chances, whereas you guys always ridiculously over-estimate yours. I mean, a few days ago, tons of English people actually thought that they could win the World Cup ffs.

We know that scraping into second place is just about the best we can realistically hope for.

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Boltman

Boltman

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So we can laugh at you when you don't qualify yeah?

Of course!, just bear in mind that a good proportion of us don't expect us to qualify ourselves. I'm still convinced we'll get nowhere near 2nd place, and the meaningless friendly victory over the Czechs did nothing to convince me otherwise. They're not what they were but they're still miles better than us and over a qualifying campaign it'll show.

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Boltman

Boltman

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Right now I'd say 11-12 points, but it's difficult to say considering the Czechs are in rebuild mode and Lithuania could either pump us or get pumped. Don't see us getting much off Spain, and I don't think we'll just turn up in Lichtenstein and crash eight past them either, that's just not how we do things :D

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Razzler

Razzler

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You want us to be dour and miserable as you Jocks about our chances then and you'll be happy? ;) Who cares whether English fans get all excited and think we'll win, does it really, really matter? When we get knocked out in the 1/4 finals or earlier in this case then we'll be the ones feeling bad and having massive discussions about 'woe is us, whatever will be do' ... it happens all the time.

It's the hope that kills, it's hoping we'll win rather than expecting to win no matter what you may read in the paper. Not quite sure how this bothers everyone as much as it does. Just cause you're forced to read the newspapers as we're all British? We can't do anything about that, I am afraid.

The tabloids are the ones that are like that and maybe some casual England fans, there are stupid fans everywhere. Sensible newspapers have actually gone out of their way to show how much they don't think we're a good side if anything.

Tabloids will sell papers, what sells papers is informing everyone what a chav John Terry is, no matter how unsettling it may be to the players, it's serialising an ex-player's autobiography no matter how unsettling it is. When the tournament starts the public mood is back to 'we want to win' so "get behind our boys" is the flavour of the day ... then when we get knocked out everyone is annoyed so "this guy out, that guy out, he's rubbish" are the headlines.

I don't read anything into them but and neither to most normal people so I have no idea why it bothers everyone so much.

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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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No, cos we're at least moderately realistic about our chances, whereas you guys always ridiculously over-estimate yours. I mean, a few days ago, tons of English people actually thought that they could win the World Cup ffs.

That's rubbish. The average England fan knows we're a quarter-final team at best.

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Opto John

Opto John

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What is always amusing in these threads is the pedestal people put themselves upon based upon the perceived mentality of "England fans" which is basically extrapolating what they read in the gutter press and using this to judge an entire population. In my mind, it makes people look as ridiculous as those who resort to jokes about Sheep etc.

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Rhino

Rhino

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That's rubbish. The average England fan knows we're a quarter-final team at best.

How the hell is it rubbish? Look back at what I said, and actually read its contents rather than get your heckles up over misinterpretation.

I said that "tons of English people actually thought that they could win the World Cup" and I'd back that up by pointing to my poll about England's chances and the 14% of people who thought that England could win, and also the statements from people like Lampard and Capello after the Slovenia match.

Never did I say that everybody in England thought that way, nor that even the average England fan did, but that "tons of English people" did and I think that's not an unfair, or "rubbish" point at all.

FWIW, more than 25% percent of the people that responded to my poll reckoned that England would get beyond the quarter finals, and that's armed with the knowledge of who their immediate and potential future opponents would be!

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Rhino

Rhino

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I can and I will. If you don't think that it's fair to say that "tons of English people" thought that England could win the World Cup then please provide evidence to support it.

The poll itself is at least moderately indicative, and if anything is skewed in opposition to my argument given that a lot of non-English people will have voted for the first two options.

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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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Haha, you can't use an OTF poll to gauge peoples opinions :D Half of the people who voted probably weren't English, half were probably joke votes.

Exactly this.

And as for Lampard's and Capello's comments, they are hardly going to say: 'no, we don't have any chance of winning this. There is actually no point in us being here'. It was a rallying call. There is no point in being in the competition if you aren't going to try to talk up your chances and have a go at going as far as you can.

The fact is that even in your poll, which isn't the best judge of anything by the way, the overwhelming majority (75%) believed England would get to the Quarter-finals at best. Less than 15% believed England could win it.

Any England fan, unless they are utterly deluded or perhaps a child, knows that England are at best a Quarter-final team. Anything more would be a bonus.

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Cilldara_2000

Cilldara_2000

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Exactly this.

And as for Lampard's and Capello's comments, they are hardly going to say: 'no, we don't have any chance of winning this. There is actually no point in us being here'. It was a rallying call. There is no point in being in the competition if you aren't going to try to talk up your chances and have a go at going as far as you can.

The fact is that even in your poll, which isn't the best judge of anything by the way, the overwhelming majority (75%) believed England would get to the Quarter-finals at best. Less than 15% believed England could win it.

Any England fan, unless they are utterly deluded or perhaps a child, knows that England are at best a Quarter-final team. Anything more would be a bonus.

There were some such fans. Rhino is correct to say that tons of English fans thought they would win the world cup. Even 5% makes tons considering how many England fans there are.

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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Of course people, maybe trying to be patriotic, a little optimistic, will say England can win it. That's what fans do. They are hardly going to give up before they are officially out. Even if your club is 7 points off safety in the EPL, with 3 games left. You still cling to hope that you can turn it around.

Out of the people who's opinions are important (ish), opinions which mean something, like football pundits, ex pros, broadsheet football journalists, England fans that actually watches games which aren't just at the WC and European cups etc. Most of these have been in line with what Crouchaldinho and Razzler say.

And there is a difference in thinking we CAN win the WC to thinking we WILL win the WC.

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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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There were some such fans. Rhino is correct to say that tons of English fans thought they would win the world cup. Even 5% makes tons considering how many England fans there are.

What, based on his poll here at the SI forums in which 33 people (possibly of dubious intentions) voted that England would win the World Cup? :rolleyes:

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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There were some such fans. Rhino is correct to say that tons of English fans thought they would win the world cup. Even 5% makes tons considering how many England fans there are.

But most of these people are probably just fair weather WC England fans. That don't pay attention to a lot of Football apart from the WC or big 4 games. Heck I reckon my Mum thought we'd win the WC, doesn't mean it means anything. As her opinion on this subject means squat.

I bet there was tons of Mexican fans who thought they'd win the WC, or Ivory Coast fans or French fans.

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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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I think you're confusing people that think England can win with their heart, and believe England will win with their head. I'm sure most Irish/Scots/Welsh would be the same.

Exactly this.

It's a totally flawed argument to say that just England fans 'always ridiculously over-estimate' their chances. What rubbish! I'm an England fan and I thought quarter-finals at best. Every other England fan I know said pretty much the same.

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Cilldara_2000

Cilldara_2000

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But most of these people are probably just fair weather WC England fans. That don't pay attention to a lot of Football apart from the WC or big 4 games. Heck I reckon my Mum thought we'd win the WC, doesn't mean it means anything. As her opinion on this subject means squat.

I bet there was tons of Mexican fans who thought they'd win the WC, or Ivory Coast fans or French fans.

So you honestly think that every single, reasonably knowledgeable English fan thought that England would absolutely not win the World Cup, bar none? Really?

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Cilldara_2000

Cilldara_2000

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Would you define 33 people plus Lampard and Capello (that's 35 in case you can't keep up) as 'tons' of people?

Does this represent the majority of England fans? Simply put, no.

It's just a totally flawed argument.

The simple fact of the matter is that plenty of England fans thought they would win the world cup. There's denying it and if you seriously don't believe it then you are as delusional as they are.

Where have I mentioned a majority?

Clutching at straws now. :D

Why not answer the question?

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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So you honestly think that every single, reasonably knowledgeable English fan thought that England would absolutely not win the World Cup, bar none? Really?

Don't know. But I pretty sure most didn't think we 'absolutely would win the WC'. Which is what you are saying.

Again fans saying we can win the WC doesn't mean fans saying we absolutely will win the WC. Which what England fans get accused of every tournement when it simply isn't true.

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Cilldara_2000

Cilldara_2000

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Don't know. But I pretty sure most didn't think we 'absolutely would win the WC'. Which is what you are saying.

Again fans saying we can win the WC doesn't mean fans saying we absolutely will win the WC. Which what England fans get accused of every tournement when it simply isn't true.

That is completely not what I am saying. See my 5% comment for example.

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Woodmansee

Woodmansee

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The simple fact of the matter is that plenty of England fans thought they would win the world cup. There's denying it and if you seriously don't believe it then you are as delusional as they are.

Where have I mentioned a majority?

I think it is. You have a problem with England fans thinking they can win the world cup. Why?

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Guest roberto922

Guest roberto922

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The media is the crux of the problem though, they hype England up beyond all belief, and too many of their gullible readers (and like it or not the Sun, Mirror, Star etc make up a very big chunk of the nations newspaper sales, iirc the Sun is the most popular paper in the UK) take in the ******** and start to believe it.

EDIT: http://www.mediauk.com/article/32696/the-most-popular-newspapers-in-the-uk

That's a majority reading red tops, a decent chunk of them are gullible enough to believe them

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crouchaldinho

crouchaldinho

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The simple fact of the matter is that plenty of England fans thought they would win the world cup. There's denying it and if you seriously don't believe it then you are as delusional as they are.

Where is the evidence of this? Do you even live in England and speak to England fans on a regular basis?

Why not answer the question?

Because it is entirely irrelevant to the discussion we are having. By asking me that question, you are misrepresenting my position.

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Guest roberto922

Guest roberto922

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So you don't have a problem with England fans thinking they can win the world cup?

I'm guessing the point he's trying to put across is 'no I don't have a problem with that, just expect to be laughed at when it doesn't happen.'

Nothing malicious here, some England fans are building this in to something more than it is, a nation right next to you having a laugh at your expense.

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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The media is the crux of the problem though, they hype England up beyond all belief, and too many of their gullible readers (and like it or not the Sun, Mirror, Star etc make up a very big chunk of the nations newspaper sales, iirc the Sun is the most popular paper in the UK) take in the ******** and start to believe it.

EDIT: http://www.mediauk.com/article/32696/the-most-popular-newspapers-in-the-uk

That's a majority reading red tops, a decent chunk of them are gullible enough to believe them

The Sun is probably the biggest selling newspaper in Wales, so do all the gullible Welsh also buy into the hype and believe England are world beaters?

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