David Pagi Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 433 PRO England’s 1st choice defence all play 433 at club level and know it inside-out England’s 3 best attacking players Rooney, Lampard and Gerrard have excelled while playing within a 433 at club level as opposed to 442 433 would allow an extra man in midfield thus better passing and more options when in possession leading to a potential for more pronounced and precise build-up play and less kick and rush long balls! 433 allows Gerrard and Lampard to both operate centrally, while giving them licence to attack with Barry shielding Less pressure and reliance on Rooney for goals as the wingers and Gerrard/Lampard would be encouraged to get in positions to score more No Heskey CON Would take some adapting so may mean short term pain for long term gain Capello may be completely out of his 442 comfort zone using it I’ve had this thought for awhile now and I was going to post this right after the USA match, unfortunately since then ITV/BBC etc have stolen my thunder alittle by hopping on the 433 bandwagon after the Algeria game. Oh well I think we can bring some new points to the table none the less. As I stated within the bullet points above 7 of England’s starting 11 have excelled using 433 at club level, surely this statistic alone means it’s a no-brainer as it seems completely logical to me that is the formation we should be using. Otherwise you are completely compromising the player’s abilities and roles performed at club level by picking them based on club form but then asking them to perform within a differing tactic and role for England. It’s counter-productive, surely you build the team/tactics around the key players, it would be like going to Zidane yeah I’m aware you are a great attacking midfielder but you are playing right midfield for France as we’ve got Petit and Deschamps to play central so you will have to play right midfield OK? Gerrard and Lampard I know you are 2 of the World’s best goal scoring/attacking midfielders within a 433 but can you sort of completely go against everything that makes you good and instead play left midfield just as the equally talented Scholes had to and instead **** about meandering in the centre of the park not really showing any clear intent to attack and completely compromising and stifling both your attacking abilities that are so evident at club level. Rooney I know you have been tearing it up in a 433 at United as a lone striker but we want to shoehorn you in with 1 goal a year Heskey who can’t even get into his club side! In-fact after 60 caps for England Heskey has provided just 7 goals and 11 assists, 7 of those assists coming in 2004 or earlier. 443 will allow better buildup passing play which England have been sorely lacking for years, even vastly inferior teams play the better more fluid football against us, Belarus, Mexico, Algeria to name three recent opponents that immediately spring to mind. Is’nt it about time England broke free from the stereotypical can’t change for anyone rigid 442 where everyone has to toe the line and conform and compromise for the good of the team, battle for the three lions on their shirt and show passion and emotion for the cause. Where’s the room for self expression, creativity, subtlety and invention that are all pivotal to succeed? What about when 442 clearly isn’t working? Or the passion and work-rate aren’t cutting it? i.e every ****ing tournament since 1966! We have to adapt and be open to change especially when things aren’t working, yet England in particular seem more hesitant to do this than most.England are the biggest underachievers of the football World, I assume that as fact but to be honest I can’t be bothered to check the actual stats to back it up. Beckenbauer came out and said France are the 2010 World Cup’s underachievers (after drawing to Uruguay and losing to Mexico) well that was before he had time to properly assess England, those two teams are far better than England’s conquerers and France can at least take comfort from the fact they were good just a few years ago having won World Cup 98 and Euro 2000 and were finalists in World Cup 2006. What have England got to show for themselves? We need to assess the reasons why England are chronic bottlers! Well this is the pivotal stat right here, England (Ranked 8th in the World) have won just two of their last 18 matches against the teams in the current top 9 of FIFA’s World Rankings. How can we expect to compete in major tournaments with a record like that? When will the naive fans/media learn despite the fact we have a handful of quality individuals we aren’t as good a team as Brazil, Spain, Argentina, Holland, Germany, France, Portugal, Italy, and maybe even Russia, Croatia, Ivory Coast, Ghana etc.. The only major national team that have a case for being as big a historical underachievers is Holland yet they can at least take some consolation from the fact they are playing better football than England and are easier on the eye. Won the 1988 Euros, finished World Cup runner-up in 74 and 78, while giving Cruyff and Total football to the World. In comparison England have 1966, a few **** penalties, tears, red cards, Beckham’s hair cuts and not alot else. Obviously the media and fans dont help our cause by proclaiming we will win the cup every 2 years, and bigging the players up despite the fact they have never translated their club form with any regularity to England. The pressure on Rooney right now especially is immense as it is literally all up to him as he and everyone else knows no-one else will score regularly so he HAS to. I think it’s really getting to him as shown by Rooney’s complete lack of control and awareness v The USA but even more so v Algeria where his control, awareness, movement everything were missing I would go as far as to say he was the worst England player v Algeria and that’s quite an accolade as he had alot of competition for that award! It was the worst performance I’ve ever seen from him right at the point where we needed him most, although I don’t completely blame him as I would feel dejected playing alongside Heskey aswell. I'd play GK James LB Cole CB Dawson CB Terry RB Johnson RW Lennon LW Cole DMC/CM Barry MC/AMC Lampard MC Gerrard ST Rooney Thoughts on changing to 433? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Who would you be playing where? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nistelrooy_uk_10 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Yes they should, said it before the world cup too. Don't think fabio will change the formation for the slovenia game though. I think 4-4-2 is a dated formation and isn't really succesful at club level or international level anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Too long to read, but basically yes! I could understand using 4-4-2 the last two games as it had been successful for us, but not anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I'd actually only play Lennon as a winger and go asymmetric probably. Something like Johnson Dawson Terry A.Cole Barry Lampard J.Cole Lennon Gerrard Rooney Whatever formation that is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pagi Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 Too long to read, but basically yes!I could understand using 4-4-2 the last two games as it had been successful for us, but not anymore. How do you define successful though? Yeah we beat vastly inferior teams during qualification but what about when we play teams who aren't complete horse-****? As I said in the opening post England have only won 2 out of the last 18 games v the teams in top 9 of the World rankings. That's beyond poor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomma Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I'd actually only play Lennon as a winger and go asymmetric probably. Something like Johnson Dawson Terry A.Cole Barry Lampard J.Cole Lennon Gerrard Rooney Whatever formation that is 4-1-4-1, with the wingers slightly up the field, at a guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pagi Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 I'd actually only play Lennon as a winger and go asymmetric probably. Something like Johnson Dawson Terry A.Cole Barry Lampard J.Cole Lennon Gerrard Rooney Whatever formation that is Yeah that's pretty much what I would do, it just frustrates me so much as it's so obvious that is the formation most of our players are comfortable with and play at their best yet we have NEVER gave it a real chance. Oh no not England we're 442 all the way! As Desailly was saying England open your minds ffs! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
why? Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 No. We don't have the players for this formation and it would be totally unbalanced on the left hand side. All our play would go down the right, the opposition would be able to predict that and make defensive arrangements to counter it quite easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I think it's a little naive to think that changing formation will suddenly make the current bunch of players perform any better. We need changes in personnel and mentality first of all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pouncer Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I think the last thing we need at this stage is any kind of drastic change. We've spent best part of two years getting ready for this tournament - any sort of significant change now would be a gamble, a step into the dark. As Brett says, to assume that a formation change will solve any sort of problems is a little naive. It's clear that the problems we're encountering are nearly all coming from areas off the pitch, off the training ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMagpies Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 It doesnt matter what FORMATION they play they are **** they are useless they are not good enough they are NEVER going to win a trophy They do NOT play as a team, until that changes nothing else will. Over rated, over hyped, over payed are all good definations for English EPL stars. They may excel in League games, but that is because they are supported by foreign talent, talent that out-plays them in international competions. The changes that need making all start with the 'Selection Policy' Select ambitious players Select players that CAN play as team Drop the current bunch of unworthy, incompetant muppets ASAP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomma Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Confidence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Oh my Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Hmm, and from nottingham, I wonder if you're that stupid middle aged woman i had to listen to yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 He's right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pagi Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 I agree they aren't playing as a team, can't do the basics etc but I also believe the formation and the crowbarring in of Heskey, Gerrard and Lampard are the main problems. If you change to 433 and drop Heskey these issues are potentially resolved as Rooney gets to play as a lone striker and Lampard/Gerrard are free to do what they do best at club level. I think it would drastically improve our passing and possession play also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMagpies Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Hmm, and from nottingham, I wonder if you're that stupid middle aged woman i had to listen to yesterday. I could be from Kazakhstan, and I'd still recognise the fact that English players are not as good as thier fans believe them to be. If you want to blame anyone for that, blame the English Media, blame the EPL Football Club leaderships for over-relying on foreign talent to achieve success, Blame the English FA for not enforcing domestic player policies earlier, blame the Team Manager for not being braver with his selection choices. As I have absolutely no say in any of those actions, the lack of ability/talent and ambition in English Players is not my fault, nor is it yours. You are merely at fault for listening to the lies printed in "The Sun", or more probably "The Daily Star" and believing them to be the truth. I feel sorry for the woman for having to endure your presence ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutontown1991 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 England should have their best formation worked out by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 We don't need the English media to inform us how good or bad the players are, we watch them week in, week out, we can see how they perform and it's pretty good for the most part. Translating this to the national scene is the problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I could be from Kazakhstan, and I'd still recognise the fact that English players are not as good as thier fans believe them to be. If you want to blame anyone for that, blame the English Media, blame the EPL Football Club leaderships for over-relying on foreign talent to achieve success, Blame the English FA for not enforcing domestic player policies earlier, blame the Team Manager for not being braver with his selection choices. As I have absolutely no say in any of those actions, the lack of ability/talent and ambition in English Players is not my fault, nor is it yours. You are merely at fault for listening to the lies printed in "The Sun", or more probably "The Daily Star" and believing them to be the truth. I feel sorry for the woman for having to endure your presence ...... Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Lennon and Barry have all been great for their domestic teams and to suggest they can only do so when supported by better international talent is nonsense. If they were playing week in week out in a club together do you think they'd be awful? It's one thing saying they don't play well as a team for England (they don't), it's quite another to suggest they are only good at club level because of the players around them. This over reactionary nonsense is as annoying and ridiculous as those who think anyone in an England shirt is a god. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pagi Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 England should have their best formation worked out by now. Yeah I guess that's my point they should have been playing 433 right after Capello first assessed the players and seen how they play at club level. Although I also feel they should be able to adapt to 433 even now as 7/8 of the starting 11 play it week in week out for their clubs anyway. There's alot of truth in the saying nothing changes from staying the same. You can't expect to play 442 with the players who played v USA and Algeria and expect different results, we need MAJOR changes to get a different outcome, a win! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I think it's a little naive to think that changing formation will suddenly make the current bunch of players perform any better. We need changes in personnel and mentality first of all. I'm not so sure about this, if you were one of them and thought the formation was wrong, and maybe that Heskey shouldn't be playing and that it wasn't working, wouldn't you get a boost from the formation being changed to what you wanted, with players playing in their best positions? I think I would Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georginho_juventusygr Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 What is wrong with Heskey? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pires777 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 If England play 4-3-3, they are going home. At least if Rooney is the main striker.. The guy is a massive choker, and incredibly easy for an organized defense to mark out a game....we have seen this time and time again. Not to mention his "desire" and "passion" which means he will roam all about the pitch playing every position he possibly can...but....you know...striker? Also, England are not Man Utd. Just because Rooney scored 20 tap ins and headers playing 4-3-3 doesnt mean he'll do it for England. It seems to me that England ALWAYS play the ball forward whenever they are in the opponents half....Even if the pass isnt on. They just dont have that sensible midfielder that will always show for the ball and make space for himself, keeping the play ticking and assuring possession. At the moment I would go with 4-4-2 with Rooney and Heskey dropping to the bench. James Johnson Dawson Terry Cole Gerrard Barry Lampard J.Cole Crouchinho Defoe I am baffled that Crouch has only had something like 20 minutes of playing time so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I'm sure you called me an idiot for suggesting Defoe and Crouch should start Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Must admit I'd rather see Defoe and Crouch upfront than Heskey and Rooney Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbyrneno.4 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Does anyone actually think that Gerrard and Lampard can play in the same team?? They simply don't work, playing the two of them in any formation is unlikely to work unless your going to play gerrard on the left of a 5 man midfield. Neither play has any interest in involving themselves in the build up play for England. At their respective clubs both are given license to get ahead of the play and have players around them that allow them that freedom. Ball retention from England is terrible, this is down to a lack of options in the middle of the park as both gerrard and lampard go ahead of the ball too often and this results in a long/direct pass up the pitch and then complaints when this doesn't work!! Playing a 433 would be my solution to this problem, but it'd line it up similar to the way that chelsea play. 3 changes to personel that lined up yesterday with Carrick for heskey, cole for Lennon and anyone for carragher! (his lack of pace means that England will be violated by a decent team! Plus Johnson doesn't have the positional sense to cover jaime and terry hasn't got the pace to cover him either) gk James dr Johnson dl cole dc anyone but carragher dc terry dm carrick cm lampard cm Barry wing cole wing gerrard cf Rooney Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbyrneno.4 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Does anyone actually think that Gerrard and Lampard can play in the same team?? They simply don't work, playing the two of them in any formation is unlikely to work unless your going to play gerrard on the left of a 5 man midfield. Neither play has any interest in involving themselves in the build up play for England. At their respective clubs both are given license to get ahead of the play and have players around them that allow them that freedom. Ball retention from England is terrible, this is down to a lack of options in the middle of the park as both gerrard and lampard go ahead of the ball too often and this results in a long/direct pass up the pitch and then complaints when this doesn't work!! Playing a 433 would be my solution to this problem, but it'd line it up similar to the way that chelsea play. 3 changes to personel that lined up yesterday with Carrick for heskey, cole for Lennon and anyone for carragher! (his lack of pace means that England will be violated by a decent team! Plus Johnson doesn't have the positional sense to cover jaime and terry hasn't got the pace to cover him either) gk James dr Johnson dl cole dc anyone but carragher dc terry dm carrick cm lampard cm Barry wing cole wing gerrard cf Rooney Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pires777 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I'm sure you called me an idiot for suggesting Defoe and Crouch should start I was only teasing you My main gripe was with you bringing Dawson in for Carragher for no apparent reason (before I realized he had been suspended ofc :o ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pagi Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 Rooney can play as a lone striker that is fact as shown last season so you're wrong there Pires and i'm not impressed with your line-up, Gerrard at right mid err no he's a central midfielder one of the World's best, play him there ffs. I see no reason why Lampard and Gerrard can't play together in a 3 man midfield if given differing roles. Lampard can get more advanced and get into the box while Gerrard can stay further back taking advantage of his defensive ability, dictating play and lurking outside the box taking advantage of his long shots. Gerrard was excellent at this more reserved deeper playmaker role for Liverpool in a 442 when they had Heskey and Owen upfront. Gerrard's through balls to Owen were almost telepathic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 The only 433 we should be playing is with Rooney, Crouch, And Defoe up front. Gerrard, Barry, and Lampard in Midfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Pires' team is actually pretty decent. Gerrard is pretty good as a right winger and it is a way to put Lampard and Gerrard in together, if we don't go for 433 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pires777 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Its a fantasy world Pagi...that formation. United play a totally different way than England do, different managers...different mentality, different tempo...different everything. 4-3-3 would be an ideal formation if you had decent wingers clever central midfielders and Heskey type (oh no) competent striker. It is also absolutely pointless to debate on where to play Gerrard....as he almost never plays where you tell him to play anyway. Only reason I have put him on the right is because he is usually a decent crosser of the ball...and doesnt need to always beat his man. I honestly think it would be a mistake to play 4-3-3 against SLV without proper wide forwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 James Johnson Upson Terry A.Cole Lampard Barry Gerrard Defoe Crouch Rooney Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscillate Wildly Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 It is also absolutely pointless to debate on where to play Gerrard....as he almost never plays where you tell him to play anyway. Only reason I have put him on the right is because he is usually a decent crosser of the ball...and doesnt need to always beat his man. Same. I'd go 4-2-3-1: Barry, Lampard/Carrick; Gerrard (right), Joe Cole (middle), Lennon/Milner (left); Rooney Gerrard could drop back alongside Barry if need be, with Lampard/Carrick subbed off, and Wright-Phillips could go on the right if we needed more pace. I'm a big fan of Joe Cole in the hole behind Rooney, personally. He's got more about him creatively than Gerrard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Gordon Hutton Caldwell McManus Naysmith Fletcher Brown Thomson McCormack McFadden Miller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomma Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Rhino . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbyrneno.4 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 You guys don't get it! Even if you play 3 in midfield with both gerrard and lampard as part of that 3, you still have all the same problems. Both their natural instincts are to get ahead of the ball and as a result the defence will still have the same problems distributing the ball from the back! Still only one option of Barry! That's why England struggle to retain possesion and the ball constantly goes direct! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahno6 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I think a 4-2-3-1 with Barry and Carrick would probably work best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pagi Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 You guys don't get it! Even if you play 3 in midfield with both gerrard and lampard as part of that 3, you still have all the same problems. Both their natural instincts are to get ahead of the ball and as a result the defence will still have the same problems distributing the ball from the back! Still only one option of Barry! That's why England struggle to retain possesion and the ball constantly goes direct! Even if that were the case, drop Lampard for Carrick sorted as Barry and Carrick are usually very composed on the ball and are very positionally aware ok they won't do anything spectacular but they are very good at retaining possession and picking a pass. Then have Cole and Lennon feeding Rooney upfront with Gerrard just behind. 433 is still the tactic we should be using no matter what players start purely because our best players play at their peak within it, simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeekoHFC Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 IMO England's problem isn't the formation, its the fact they are just actually pretty average as a team. Changing the formation won't stop that. Replacing World Class players like Lampard/Gerrard with Carrick and Barry isn't either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boltman Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Rooney is burst. Been saying it to all my mates for weeks, everyone put it down to my usual drunken ramblings, Hansen finally hinted at it in the aftermath today. In essence, he's too bloody knackered to be Rooney. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 We need an Argentinian style 'defenders don't cross the half way line' tactic. That was there's always at least 4 back and a holding midfielder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Rooney is burst. Been saying it to all my mates for weeks, everyone put it down to my usual drunken ramblings, Hansen finally hinted at it in the aftermath today.In essence, he's too bloody knackered to be Rooney. Carlos Tevez had a pretty energetic season and he seems more than fine tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Presuming Rooney isn't fully fit because of his injury in the CL, hasn't scored since his injury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I want to like Carrick, I really do, I want us to have a player that does what he does from time to time but consistently. If he's in the squad and he's playing for a top, top team he may as well get on the pitch at some point, ditto obviously Joe Cole. I'd be amazed if Joe Cole doesn't get on the pitch on wednesday, most likely starting, I think Heskey will be dropped, we need more goal threat just whether it's Gerrard pushed forward or Defoe starting. Cole may start right, I guess of we're playing a front 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Presuming Rooney isn't fully fit because of his injury in the CL, hasn't scored since his injury. Yeah, I don't think he's right, he was supposed to be out a few weeks but was back within about 10 days or less IIRC and then didn't look right then. According to Capello he's 'fine' and 'perfect' in training though. I really thought he was gonna be brought off the other day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boltman Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Yeah, I don't think he's right, he was supposed to be out a few weeks but was back within about 10 days or less IIRC and then didn't look right then.According to Capello he's 'fine' and 'perfect' in training though. I really thought he was gonna be brought off the other day Not fit/Broken/Tired/Whatever I told my better half during the league cup final when he came on as a subby that in all likelyhood he'd be played or burned out of the form he was in for a majority of the season for Man U by the time the WC came around. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing but respect and appreciation for Rooney's ability as a footballer, I always thought as far back as when he was a teenager that if anyone bothered to play him as an out and out striker he'd score for fun, i.e. the season just gone, but there's only so much a player who thrives on energy, enthusiasm, workrate, passion, and endevour can give before it runs out. He needs a rest quite frankly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I think as soon as he did his ankle we all thought he's done for the World Cup ... we were probably right. I await him sitting out England qualifiers next season with injury Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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