DVD constantly in drive?

[grade]

Wait, so now you want SI to set three, four or five different DRM systems and let you chose between them? Disk in drive, Steam, Unilock and a fourth option for those who hate the DVD in the drive, dislike Steam and don't trust unilock after last time?

They are already the only company I know of using TWO at a time, and giving you the option.

If you don't like Steam (and don't blame it on resources, if you can play FM then the tiny amount of ram steam takes up won't even register) then yes, you are stuck with the DVD in the drive. However, if I hated Steam I'd be stuck with not even being able to play MW2, AvP or any of Valve's own games. If I dislike Ubisoft's new DRM (and I do, only online games should require me to be online all the time to play... Broadband goes down occasionally!) then I can't play any Ubisoft game that comes out on PC. If I dislike securom I can't play a host of games. If I dislike one of FM's two DRM systems, I still have the option of the second one. That puts it ahead of anyone else running DRM on their games... And as far as I'm aware the only people that go completely DRM free are indie developers or Good Old Games, and they only have classics not modern games anyway.

I just want the no dvd in the driver option being independently from the internet, but don't care what system it uses. It was my favorite feature on FM09, too bad i didn't enjoy it so much.

[Diagoras]

I may be wrong here, but don't the digital download versions of FM2010 (not Steam) allow you to play using an activation code and no CD?

Yes. I downloaded from Gamersgate, and it's great. No disc and no Steam.

[baker.simon]

So let get me straight you paid more for FM via steam then from the box, right? And that you don't actually owned the game, but only license?

Is it me or is this doesn't make any sense? You pay more and never own the game.

Yes I paid more because, for me, it was the most suitable option for me to get the game this year, and it avoided the postal strikes, and I was guaranteed to be playing at midnight on release if I wished. Those last 2 points are irrelavent for me to be honest though. Like I said, it suited me to go through Steam.

Buy any game you wish, on any platform you wish and you still only buy the license to play the game and not the game itself, something Rb alluded to below.

If you buy a boxed copy you still only have the license to use the game. Nothing more

[grade]

Yes I paid more because, for me, it was the most suitable option for me to get the game this year, and it avoided the postal strikes, and I was guaranteed to be playing at midnight on release if I wished. Those last 2 points are irrelavent for me to be honest though. Like I said, it suited me to go through Steam.

Buy any game you wish, on any platform you wish and you still only buy the license to play the game and not the game itself, something Rb alluded to below.

Yes there was a postal strike and when i ordered my game it came a week later. The thing is it wasn't Royal Postal (whatever it is called in england) that was in charge of my package some stupid company called MRW that delayed the delivery whci my package from some stupid idea remain in madrid for five days. Yet, I received the game later then you and i played for while and stopped and decided to wait for patches to put the game to work correctly.

So basically what you and RB defend that even if I buy the box version it is license to play the game?

So why the hell is the cd/dvd for?

[edgar555]

Why does FM2010 need the DVD constantly in the drive (whilst not installing via Steam obviously)?

On previous versions, it just had to be in upon loading up the game, and could then be removed (there was even a prompt telling you this was the case!).

Personally, I have a large monitor and like to play FM in windowed mode, with the DVD playing along side it, but now that's not possible. Was just wondering why this has changed and whether there is the possibility of it being reverted back in the future.

Am I the only one who doesn't remember the prompts talked about here? I'm fairly certain until 09 that the disc was needed at all times you were playing?

[baker.simon]

Yes there was a postal strike and when i ordered my game it came a week later. The thing is it wasn't Royal Postal (whatever it is called in england) that was in charge of my package some stupid company called MRW that delayed the delivery whci my package from some stupid idea remain in madrid for five days. Yet, I received the game later then you and i played for while and stopped and decided to wait for patches to put the game to work correctly.

So basically what you and RB defend that even if I buy the box version it is license to play the game?

So why the hell is the cd/dvd for?

The CD is only an aid to get the game to run. The stuff that is on it (in this case the game) is still the property of SI/SEGA.

[grade]

Am I the only one who doesn't remember the prompts talked about here? I'm fairly certain until 09 that the disc was needed at all times you were playing?

Until FM09 the cd was only necessary to start the game and loading the game (i think) then you could simply remove the cd, even it saved and closed down without one.

Now due to some brilliant decision to avoid piracy, SI made things that you all times you need the dvd on the disk, when you start the game, load the game, play the game, save the game and close the game.

With steam you don't need the dvd, but the thing is it needs to you be log on on the net to work the game. There is a way to play the game offline, but you need to do this when you are online (from what a friend of mine told me and what i have read here) or you end up like last week a friend of mine that was so pro Steam, was out of net at home for little over week. Since then he doesn't want to hear and see the word Steam in front of him. Because he over payed for games and for over week he couldn't play nothing. Funny thing we all say Steam this steam that just to make fun of him.

Note: His computer was a desktop.

[edgar555]

Until FM09 the cd was only necessary to start the game and loading the game (i think) then you could simply remove the cd, even it saved and closed down without one.

Now due to some brilliant decision to avoid piracy, SI made things that you all times you need the dvd on the disk, when you start the game, load the game, play the game, save the game and close the game.

With steam you don't need the dvd, but the thing is it needs to you be log on on the net to work the game. There is a way to play the game offline, but you need to do this when you are online (from what a friend of mine told me and what i have read here) or you end up like last week a friend of mine that was so pro Steam, was out of net at home for little over week. Since then he doesn't want to hear and see the word Steam in front of him. Because he over payed for games and for over week he couldn't play nothing. Funny thing we all say Steam this steam that just to make fun of him.

Note: His computer was a desktop.

I understand the whole Steam thing, had it with FM09 then had the 'offline mode' nonsense, so uninstalled Steam and bought FM10 from Game as a digital download. No disc needed. Play online or offline whenever I want. Considering Steam is made by Valve, who I respect a lot (how can you not respect the makers of Half Life) it is the biggest pile of cack going.

FYI I reinstalled 09 and using the 9.3.1 patch I can now play that disc-less whenever I want to.

I also understand SI/sega's need to avoid piracy so don't have any issue with them requiring a disc/installation thru Steam/digital download with code option. With all those options surely you can all find a happy solution.

And I honestly don't remember ever being able to remove the disc from previous versions. Maybe if I'd known that I wouldn't have knackered my old disc drive.

[grade]

The CD is only an aid to get the game to run. The stuff that is on it (in this case the game) is still the property of SI/SEGA.

No the CD is my property and the game is mine from the moment i buy the game. SI/SEGA has no saying in what i do with it once i bought it. if I put the cd to help furniture of my tv stand right and use it to clean the toilet, then that is my freaking choice. If I want to play the game, when and where I want, and what i do to it and SI and Sega has nothing to I do with it, unless I go against the anti piracy law, since I cannot make money out of it.

[grade]

I understand the whole Steam thing, had it with FM09 then had the 'offline mode' nonsense, so uninstalled Steam and bought FM10 from Game as a digital download. No disc needed. Play online or offline whenever I want. Considering Steam is made by Valve, who I respect a lot (how can you not respect the makers of Half Life) it is the biggest pile of cack going.

FYI I reinstalled 09 and using the 9.3.1 patch I can now play that disc-less whenever I want to.

I also understand SI/sega's need to avoid piracy so don't have any issue with them requiring a disc/installation thru Steam/digital download with code option. With all those options surely you can all find a happy solution.

And I honestly don't remember ever being able to remove the disc from previous versions. Maybe if I'd known that I wouldn't have knackered my old disc drive.

For me i prefer the no disk in drive thing, but since i before Fm09 i had always the cd on the driver and survived it, i don't care either way is fine, but saying that i can only play only when i'm online, it isn't fair.

[edgar555]

For me i prefer the no disk in drive thing, but since i before Fm09 i had always the cd on the driver and survived it, i don't care either way is fine, but saying that i can only play only when i'm online, it isn't fair.

Agreed absolutely, hence the reason I ditched Steam and left them with a raging complaint letter to read and mostly ignore (they acknowledged receipt of it and apologised).

[mrmeee17]

Steam's a nasty piece of business for me, but if people like it it's up to them

As long as my DVD-in-drive option is there I'm happy.

[baker.simon]

No the CD is my property and the game is mine from the moment i buy the game. SI/SEGA has no saying in what i do with it once i bought it. if I put the cd to help furniture of my tv stand right and use it to clean the toilet, then that is my freaking choice. If I want to play the game, when and where I want, and what i do to it and SI and Sega has nothing to I do with it, unless I go against the anti piracy law, since I cannot make money out of it.

No, the game is still the property of SI/SEGA, you only effectively buy permission to play the game. It's the same for any game on any platform and has been for god knows how long.

[edgar555]

No, the game is still the property of SI/SEGA, you only effectively buy permission to play the game. It's the same for any game on any platform and has been for god knows how long.

Its all about interpretation though isn't it. You're both right, from a certain point of view

[solstar]

No the CD is my property and the game is mine from the moment i buy the game. SI/SEGA has no saying in what i do with it once i bought it. if I put the cd to help furniture of my tv stand right and use it to clean the toilet, then that is my freaking choice. If I want to play the game, when and where I want, and what i do to it and SI and Sega has nothing to I do with it, unless I go against the anti piracy law, since I cannot make money out of it.

No, the game is still the property of SI/SEGA, you only effectively buy permission to play the game. It's the same for any game on any platform and has been for god knows how long.

Its all about interpretation though isn't it. You're both right, from a certain point of view

Actually you pay for the CD so whatever is on that disk is whats yours. In this case its a license to play a game, be it a copy as the game itself is not sold. However you dont buy permission, since that would be a rental and not a purchase, like a contract on a phone or FMLive, where you pay for x months and once you stop paying you lose access to the game. Due to this your copy gives you freedom to do with it as you please as long as you dont infringe law of your country, which differs everywhere, so grade is partly correct. Where simon.baker is right is acknowledging that you dont buy the game, since this is only sold if SI were sold as its one of its assets. However your copy is yours and what Steam does, clearly indicated in its T&Cs is take over that copy (license) which you acquired and then should you breach a rule within the rules of Steam you lose access to your copy. Which unless you acquired your copy for free is tantamount to theft since Valve never legally paid for your copy but rather gave you access to its system in exchange for your copy

[Arkim]

I suppose it is down to personal preference and what you find important then.

I don't mind either way. I don't really like having the disc in the drive all the time but at least it meant I knew I could play it on release day this year

Definitely. Quick and simple. I'm one of those who doesn't mind having the disc inside the drive as I don't play any other game anyway and music I listen through youtube/online if need be.

I prefer this method rather then uniloc for obvious reasons.

[SCIAG]

Uniloc was the best system yet, by far. Put a code in once, little hassle, and you're done for the year.

Next to that, the pre-09 option to remove the disk from the drive once the game had loaded.

The current system, to be honest, is very tight compared to previous years. Comparing to other genres of game and saying "they could get tighter" is all well and good, but comparing to the same game, they could get a heck of a lot looser.

Installing the game on STEAM takes over six times the length of installing manually- at least, it took six times the installation time before I got frustrated and aborted the installation! STEAM opens itself up at start, stops responding, and then won't close when you want to shut down. It hogs bandwidth. It makes it very hard to access the data editor. Look at the technical issues experienced for the various methods- STEAM's list is far longer than Unilock's was, and even longer than the classic installation.

I really can't comprehend why STEAM was deemed a better option than Unilock, which was generally brilliant, and forcing the user to wear down their disk drive and not listen to music during the match was deemed a better option than verifying that they owned the game at game start rather than constantly throughout playing.

[Yid Army]

I wish there was research available on how many people have broken the law for FM10 (a complete pirate of it or a no-cd patch) compared to FM09 (required activation), FM08 (Securom) and FM07 and previous (nothing). I am sure that the more the DRM and its visibility, the higher the number of pirates. I reckon FM09 will have the highest full prates to get around activation, but FM10 will have the most no-cd patch users. FM08 will have higher pirates than 07 (those in the know about Securom) but not as many as the newer games. Just my thoughts.

[r0x0r]

I just want the no dvd in the driver option being independently from the internet, but don't care what system it uses. It was my favorite feature on FM09, too bad i didn't enjoy it so much.

Please give me a single DRM method that doesn't rely on the DVD being in the drive OR the pc being online? Other than Steam and it's offline mode of course.

No the CD is my property and the game is mine from the moment i buy the game. SI/SEGA has no saying in what i do with it once i bought it. if I put the cd to help furniture of my tv stand right and use it to clean the toilet, then that is my freaking choice. If I want to play the game, when and where I want, and what i do to it and SI and Sega has nothing to I do with it, unless I go against the anti piracy law, since I cannot make money out of it.

The physical DVD is yours. The game itself is not. You receive a licence to play the game and a physical DVD, yours to do what you will with, which contains an installer for that game. Kind of like when you buy a ticket to the cinema. The ticket is yours forever. The value is in the licence to watch that film once though.

[r0x0r]

You shouldnt have to install this. I really dont see how difficult it can be for SI to let ppl who genuinely bought the game to enjoy it whichever way they like. Steam is not the answer to the possible problems and I say possible because just like those defending Steam there are no numbers that prove ppl like it one way or the other.

As i've said before, most games have a single DRM scheme, and to play the game you have to live with it. SI/SEGA are ahead of the field by offering two seperate methods, and you ask for three? A magical offline no disk in the drive method that won't result in one copy being installed on dozens of mates PCs?

[Edle]

With regard to drm crap etc, Steam is as good as it's going to get in my opinion.

It's not anywhere near as annoying as some people like to make out. It just depends on how you want your games. I'm quite lazy and prefer digital downloads anyway so for me steam is an excellent thing.

Steam is useless.

[SCIAG]

Please give me a single DRM method that doesn't rely on the DVD being in the drive OR the pc being online? Other than Steam and it's offline mode of course.

Uniloc via phone, and Uniloc via internet, which only needs you to be online at the time.

Oh, and then there's the form of DRM that served SI perfectly well for 15 years or more...

[Yid Army]

It is also the best one - Sims 3 has reportedly had a lot less pirates than Spore had after EA dropped the DRM. Seriously, what is the point of this stuff, it doesn't stop pirates, just puts people off, drives down sales and all the pirates have no problem getting past it anyway. They are probably laughing about what Ubisoft are on right now.

[Flukey]

The only argument I see here is that in order not to have the DVD in the drive you have to use steam.

I agree to an extent, in the same way that Microsoft (did) force you to use Internet explorer, coming boxed with windows, without any possible competition - in the same way, I have no way of choosing which software I use to activate / control DRM.

My question is - what alternative is there to steam? There needs to be some way of SI / Sega of always checking if you have (or appear to have) a genuine copy of the game - either by keeping the DVD in the drive or for an external software to constantly check your copy is legit.

Is there any other software out there that does what steam does? If there is, then this is somthing SI could look into. I don't think Unilock is as effective as steam?

[baker.simon]

It is also the best one - Sims 3 has reportedly had a lot less pirates than Spore had after EA dropped the DRM. Seriously, what is the point of this stuff, it doesn't stop pirates, just puts people off, drives down sales and all the pirates have no problem getting past it anyway. They are probably laughing about what Ubisoft are on right now.

I'd argue that putting more barriers in front of pirates riles them even more. It kind of makes them more determined to beat the systems in place of you know what I mean.

[grade]

The only argument I see here is that in order not to have the DVD in the drive you have to use steam.

I agree to an extent, in the same way that Microsoft (did) force you to use Internet explorer, coming boxed with windows, without any possible competition - in the same way, I have no way of choosing which software I use to activate / control DRM.

My question is - what alternative is there to steam? There needs to be some way of SI / Sega of always checking if you have (or appear to have) a genuine copy of the game - either by keeping the DVD in the drive or for an external software to constantly check your copy is legit.

Is there any other software out there that does what steam does? If there is, then this is somthing SI could look into. I don't think Unilock is as effective as steam?

Well i read somewhere that games that offer stuff are the ones that get low numbers of piracy numbers. (i read on another forum, so can't say it is genuine) I mean Mass Effect 2 (the game I'm playing right now aside FM07) if you connect to the Ceberus network, they offer a suit (in case if you pre-order the game), a location that you can land and character. Later they offered another suit and weapon.

I mean I think this is pure marketing, where the creators of the game are giving stuff to their costumers for free that incorporates into the game and costumers would defenetly buy the original game, because the piracy copies don't offer such things because they intend to avoid those kinds of networks. One way to at least lower number of piracy (you cannot stop it) is SI offer stuff like this. Skin to all users and another very specific for Steam. I don't know how what else that SI could offer, but it would bump more the sales.

[solstar]

I seem to remember that apart from achievements, Steam was to offer a unique skin or something yet havent seen it from anyone on the forums.

And r0x0r, SI had a system in place for years and their sales were equally high so why suddenly change and adopt a system that has not had a heatwarming welcome from day one? My only thought would be some sort of revenue or marketing stream that wasnt available without Steam, all of which do nothing for the consumer.

[outtasync]

I bought the box version installed through STEAM but once i finished installing the game Steam started to patch FM and it took bloody ages to even get past 1%. I had no choice but to completely remove FM and Steam and reinstall.

People with poor bandwidth have no choice but not to use Steam, but I have the DVD in my drive all the time and I'm not finding it a problem at all. Actually I hate the idea of having to use a 3rd party program to play a game I bought from the shop, and FM is an OFFLINE game, why do i have to be online to play it just because of Steam?

[crouchaldinho]

Does anyone know if there will eventually be a patch like 9.3.1 for FM10 to remove all need for Steam/having the disc in the drive etc.?

[Riffraff]

I also don't like having the disc in the drive. I did notice however it only needs to be there if you want to save / load / start a new game. Still, juggling discs is just annoying, especially if you play windowed FM and, for instance, watch a movie in the background.

Bring back disc-free play!

[baker.simon]

I seem to remember that apart from achievements, Steam was to offer a unique skin or something yet havent seen it from anyone on the forums.

And r0x0r, SI had a system in place for years and their sales were equally high so why suddenly change and adopt a system that has not had a heatwarming welcome from day one? My only thought would be some sort of revenue or marketing stream that wasnt available without Steam, all of which do nothing for the consumer.

I can vouch that the skin is there.

[TheMister]

I don't think Unilock is as effective as steam?

Maybe not as effective at stopping piracy - maybe; but it was a lot more effective for increasing the end-users experience of having the game. And as has been mentioned, maybe the customers kept happy should be more important than the negligible revenue lost.

I'd argue that putting more barriers in front of pirates riles them even more. It kind of makes them more determined to beat the systems in place of you know what I mean.

Maybe I'm just bloody-minded, but I know I'd be more determined if I was pirating their game.

[baker.simon]

Maybe I'm just bloody-minded, but I know I'd be more determined if I was pirating their game.

Any game, any system. The harder the better. One thing I have read about is how when a new system comes out to stop piracy it just makes them more determined to beat it.

FWIW, thats isn't saying I do it, I bought through Steam

[Neil Brock]

That's the problem, we had Uniloc for the FM09 game and many users had issues activating on release day (as was well publicized afterwards), so a different technique was used for FM10. As you can tell, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[TheMister]

That's the problem, we had Uniloc for the FM09 game and many users had issues activating on release day (as was well publicized afterwards), so a different technique was used for FM10. As you can tell, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Very true Neil.

However, it'd be interesting to compare numbers on the problems people experienced with the two methods - I'm sure you could come up with something easily. In press releases for each iteration of the game it's mentioned how the creators listen to, and adopt, the ideas of the customers. There's no doubt you do! But this could be another chance to do just that - look at feedback on the two methods and act on it.

I'd be surprised if Steam ran out the winner, but if it did then we could have no complaints (some hope! ).

[SCIAG]

That's the problem, we had Uniloc for the FM09 game and many users had issues activating on release day (as was well publicized afterwards), so a different technique was used for FM10. As you can tell, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You had problems on release day, and for maybe two or three days afterwards. With STEAM, the problems are ongoing. It's a choice between short term complete unusability or long term severe difficulty.

Seriously, what is the perceived problem with FM08 and earlier?

[Edle]

I think its rather pertininent to assume that the lovely fellows at SEGA had a massive input into this sudden change.

From nothing to this monstrosity in two years.

[solstar]

A lot of data gathering is also at the heart of using steam. In one main post Miles mentioned how they gather user data to note who is playing where and trigger needed data through that. Steam is probably behind this, especially as you need to go online.

Regarding the unilock problem, most of it was because ppl all tried to install at same time and unless I remember correctly the issued numbers had a zero that was confused for an oh, so that was easily fixed before release if someone had noticed. I preferred unilock as Steam involves installing a separate programme that carries way too much advertising. If ppl play many games it makes sense but for those who mostly play FM its a redundant and extremely annoying feature.

[crouchaldinho]

That's the problem, we had Uniloc for the FM09 game and many users had issues activating on release day (as was well publicized afterwards), so a different technique was used for FM10. As you can tell, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Neil, any chance that you could answer my question:

Does anyone know if there will eventually be a patch like 9.3.1 for FM10 to remove all need for Steam/having the disc in the drive etc.?

Thanks.

[r0x0r]

Uniloc via phone, and Uniloc via internet, which only needs you to be online at the time.

Oh, and then there's the form of DRM that served SI perfectly well for 15 years or more...

So a massively flawed one which caused tons of problems...

Or one that led to people admitting to sharing with their neighbours, running the disk from house to house on the odd occasion they'd let the game close.

The simple fact is that regular disk checks allow deeper rooted (in the game, not in your machine) DRM. The old system was easier to crack because it'd only check when the game actually loaded, rather than regularly.

[FrazT]

Neil, any chance that you could answer my question:

Thanks.

This is not based on any inside knowledge but...

FM 09 had massive activation issues on launch day, but continued to have reactivation issues after the patches. This was still causing problems for the tech forum for many months after and indeed still comes up even now. I think that it was for this reason alone that 9.3.1 was released but only after the 10.0 demo was released so I dont think it will be a priority for FM10 as activation problems have not nearly been as bad as FM09

[r0x0r]

Neil, any chance that you could answer my question:

Thanks.

I'm not an insider, but I'd guess no, because...

With last year's game, the physical disk was useless unless you could connect to a server. Therefore in ten years time it'd be unplayable without that patch.

This years plays with the disk in the drive, so there's no such problem.

[r0x0r]

A lot of data gathering is also at the heart of using steam. In one main post Miles mentioned how they gather user data to note who is playing where and trigger needed data through that. Steam is probably behind this, especially as you need to go online.

Regarding the unilock problem, most of it was because ppl all tried to install at same time and unless I remember correctly the issued numbers had a zero that was confused for an oh, so that was easily fixed before release if someone had noticed. I preferred unilock as Steam involves installing a separate programme that carries way too much advertising. If ppl play many games it makes sense but for those who mostly play FM its a redundant and extremely annoying feature.

On top of that, unilock would randomly decide you no longer had a registered game. I eneded up giving up and going over to Steam last year.

[crouchaldinho]

Thanks for your thoughts FrazT and r0x0r.

[SCIAG]

Could you not still play on various machines using STEAM? So no difference there.

The problems with Uniloc's system were short term and over by the time the vast majority of players purchased the game. The problems with STEAM are ongoing (the installation time, for example, or the delay it gives start up and close down times, or the way it hides the editor away in a place most cannot find).

Frankly, running the game from house to house would be massively impractical, and a tiny number of people will have done it. SI can't have lost any more than 0.01% of their revenue, if that, from this practise. Compare playing on five computers at once effortlessly with STEAM.

The DRM may be more secure, but it has little benefit to anybody. It's a pretty big inconvenience to the customer and has little or no positive impact on game sales (though obviously that's nearly impossible to back up. However, look at Spore- a game like that should have sold far more than it did, and massive amounts of people pirated it).

[baker.simon]

Could you not still play on various machines using STEAM? So no difference there.

The problems with Uniloc's system were short term and over by the time the vast majority of players purchased the game. The problems with STEAM are ongoing (the installation time, for example, or the delay it gives start up and close down times, or the way it hides the editor away in a place most cannot find).

Frankly, running the game from house to house would be massively impractical, and a tiny number of people will have done it. SI can't have lost any more than 0.01% of their revenue, if that, from this practise. Compare playing on five computers at once effortlessly with STEAM.

The DRM may be more secure, but it has little benefit to anybody. It's a pretty big inconvenience to the customer and has little or no positive impact on game sales (though obviously that's nearly impossible to back up. However, look at Spore- a game like that should have sold far more than it did, and massive amounts of people pirated it).

You can only open your Steam account on one computer at a time so it can only be played once at a time.

[grade]

The simple fact is that regular disk checks allow deeper rooted (in the game, not in your machine) DRM. The old system was easier to crack because it'd only check when the game actually loaded, rather than regularly.

I very much doubt that the hacker had sleepless nights to crack the new system.

It is pointless to compare to compare the old system and the new system, because they both where hacked, the only different it probably took longer to hack the new system then the old one.

[SCIAG]

You can only open your Steam account on one computer at a time so it can only be played once at a time.

Surely not if you use Offline mode?

[baker.simon]

Surely not if you use Offline mode?

But you still have to login to use the account in the first place, or set it to auto log-in and to remember your sign in details.

[Aim_Less]

you can use a small trick to play on several computers but only one of them can be in online mode

the part of on going issues with steam is a load of bs if that was true , people would steam forums and this ones with issues .

also hiding the editor? seriously ?