Critique of FM08 transfer mechanism - will it ever change?

[Mygel]

I agree. I think the flaws in the transfer systems is probably well-known to SI games as it has been like this for years. As some one said further up, if you do not see the unrealism in the system then I doubt that the person is playing FM and/or have any idea how transfers and negotations work IRL.

Let us just hope that they one day sit down and realise that maybe we should spend some hours to go through the basic elements of the game to see if they work.

[Flash Funk]

Spot on!

I've been searching for an existing thread to rant in about these topics but you've hit every nail in the head so there isn't much I can say on the topic.

I do think that the transfer mechanism is better this year than in FM07, where it was fantastically flawed. (My worst example being Newcastle rejecting a £15m bid for Shay Given from User Man Utd, only to accept £2.5m from AI EVerton a day or two later, and rejecting my subsenquent £2.5m bid because "there are other interested teams and they dont want to be rushed into any decisions". Bollox to that.

So far in FM08 the worst instances I have noticed are User Atletico being offered Cesar Delgado for £1.7m by Barcelona, only to have the bid rejected as 5 other teams have £1.7m bids accepted, he subsequently moved to Real Madrid.

More annoying however is my good yet no longer needed players languishing in my reserves for 2 years while teams continually refuse to meet their asking price of £0. This can be put down to them not playing for a while but as Requelme has recently proved, their is no substitute for talent. As such, you would imagine the likes of Hargreaves, Ottl & Bolzoni would be good enough to receive bids of £0.

[aenariel]

Excellent post.

May I add to this discussion a small comment:

- Why do those players who retire at the age of 21/22/23 just won't ever accept any deal, and why on earth don't clubs from their home nation try to get him? I mean, players who are on free transfer and are excellent national prospects but can't get a foreign deal normally go back to where they came from intil they can attract some offers. In FM the opposite happens: they leave the national clubs, don't accpet any offer from any national teams and then simply retire...

[munk]

Good Post.

[endtime]

May I add to this discussion a small comment:

- Why do those players who retire at the age of 21/22/23 just won't ever accept any deal, and why on earth don't clubs from their home nation try to get him? I mean, players who are on free transfer and are excellent national prospects but can't get a foreign deal normally go back to where they came from intil they can attract some offers. In FM the opposite happens: they leave the national clubs, don't accpet any offer from any national teams and then simply retire...

They don't actually reject contract offers, there's just no interest whatsoever. Admittedly, I think this particular issue has improved a bit in FM2008, although it's still not good enough.

[T-Bag]

I haven't seen this one mentioned yet but I think it is FM08 specific.

Several times I have been offered a player by a club for £0. Often a very good player so of course I accept, then they reject the bid or ask for money! Or sometimes they offer the player for say £100k, you snap their hands off and accept. Then they come back and say they want £500k. um why bother offering him to me in the first place?

[Offside]

Something similar keeps happening to me. I get offered a player at a certain price and make my bid. This gets knocked back as they say other clubs are interested and they won't be pressured into a decision, yet every other clubs bid is accepted.

[PhroX]

Originally posted by T-Bag:

I haven't seen this one mentioned yet but I think it is FM08 specific.

Several times I have been offered a player by a club for £0. Often a very good player so of course I accept, then they reject the bid or ask for money! Or sometimes they offer the player for say £100k, you snap their hands off and accept. Then they come back and say they want £500k. um why bother offering him to me in the first place?

They're probably using the trick many players did in the past - offer a player for free in order to get intrest, then reject the bids and offer him again, this time for money. Guess the AI's leaning

[Trillkott]

Great post!

[atonement]

totally with you

i would much rather they nailed down the fundamentals of the game (match engine, transfer system) rather than waste time on superficial innovations like club captain etc

[Drunk Beware]

Originally posted by atonement:

totally with you

i would much rather they nailed down the fundamentals of the game (match engine, transfer system) rather than waste time on superficial innovations like club captain etc

Personally i agree with that although there are alot of people who will say there are no new features etc.. i run an esms(electronic soccer management simulation) site, and prefer to enhance the features that are already in the game than to add new features.

[SL42]

If you played lower leagues (or leagues in some low reputation countries), problem 5 is really a great problem, and NEVER FIXED FOR SEVERAL VERSIONS!

Some players just simply will not join the lower leagues clubs after they've been released by their original higher league clubs, then they retire after a season at age of 21. NONSENSE!

Some, though involved in the first team in seasons before, and had some steady performance (e.g. 7 goals in 30 matches in 5 consecutive seasons for a striker, 6.80 average ratings for defenders/midfielders), is released by me after promotion, because I think his ability is not enough for higher league. Surprisingly, no clubs from that league even attempted to sign the players (may be their CA and PA are too low), subsequently they again retired at age of 25 or sth. With the ability and experience to play at that level, why no clubs come for them?

The transfer system should be improved for next version to make it more realistic...(though I can't see it happen)

[Guest]

Agreed totally!

It's really rubbish. I've stop played my FM already. It's getting to annoying being ask for post match comments. It's been no comments for whole season but the AI just don't get it! Asking and asking!!!!

[JAStewart]

I fully agree with the original post. I have experienced all that you mention-every single point, and its frustrating.

One related transfer problem is this:

Start as a new user with Chelsea (make yourself experienced international user)

Declare interest in C.Ronaldo

What what happens.

What happens is he will be "flattered" by your interest! WRONG! That would never happen in real life.

[chopper99]

Good post.

I also feel the transfer system could do with an overhaul. While usable at the moment it could definitely be a lot, lot better. There have been some interesting ideas thrown up in this thread.

At this point can I just point something out. To all the people who rant on that no-one ever wants to bother with posts that criticise the game please read this one as it is proof that if a criticism is constructive and well thought it it will not only be accepted, but will hopefully generate some good discussion and in turn ideas to help improve whatever aspect of the game is being discussed.

[smudger18]

ok 1st season i bought aairatilo (sp) for 375 k ok i played him just 4 games entire season then i started the second season spurs enquired and i ask 19.5 mill they accepted !!!!! yes i know on 07 you couldnt sell a player but this is stupid 19.5 mill for a player who only played 4 games ???

[sgw]

One minor quibble/suggesiton to add...

I'd like a different set of options when selecting a reason for accepting a loan bid. Something like "player will benefit from first team football", "player is not needed at club", "player is unsettled at club", "player is not ready for the first team".

[Ched]

Originally posted by Drunk Beware:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by atonement:

totally with you

i would much rather they nailed down the fundamentals of the game (match engine, transfer system) rather than waste time on superficial innovations like club captain etc

Personally i agree with that although there are alot of people who will say there are no new features etc.. i run an esms(electronic soccer management simulation) site, and prefer to enhance the features that are already in the game than to add new features. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

a pity SI don't apply this line of thought to their work.

Althogh is suppose having "x y and z now fixed!" doesn't sell quite as well as having "new features!" slapped on the side of the box.

I hope i'm just being cynical, but i just get the impression that they care more about what sells rather than what actually works, i would be delighted to be proven wrong.

[George Graham]

Originally posted by Ched:

3) AI valuation of players. User is chelsea, AI as AC makes a bid for cech of 12.5m, truly comical, the player is happy, being used regularly and is "indespensible to the club", similarly the club is in no sort of financial trouble, so why does the AI think this is in any way acceptable? So as to test this, i changed it so the user was AC, i made a bid of 12.5m for cech, no prizes for guessing what happened, bid rejected, which leads me to my point, why does the AI appear to think the user has a lower valuation of players than the AI?

Great post, but 3) is the one that shouldve been fixed this year- as imo its the most blatent and annoying flaw in the transfer system.

[cabello]

Good post, OP!!! I tend to ignore these as part of the quirks of playing FM but it would be excellent if we could have a reply from SI.

The post has already been alive for 4 days. Let's keep this thread alive till we get a reply.

[alutac13]

Originally posted by Flash Funk:

Spot on!

I've been searching for an existing thread to rant in about these topics but you've hit every nail in the head so there isn't much I can say on the topic.

I do think that the transfer mechanism is better this year than in FM07, where it was fantastically flawed. (My worst example being Newcastle rejecting a £15m bid for Shay Given from User Man Utd, only to accept £2.5m from AI EVerton a day or two later, and rejecting my subsenquent £2.5m bid because "there are other interested teams and they dont want to be rushed into any decisions". Bollox to that.

So far in FM08 the worst instances I have noticed are User Atletico being offered Cesar Delgado for £1.7m by Barcelona, only to have the bid rejected as 5 other teams have £1.7m bids accepted, he subsequently moved to Real Madrid.

More annoying however is my good yet no longer needed players languishing in my reserves for 2 years while teams continually refuse to meet their asking price of £0. This can be put down to them not playing for a while but as Requelme has recently proved, their is no substitute for talent. As such, you would imagine the likes of Hargreaves, Ottl & Bolzoni would be good enough to receive bids of £0.

i think this is down to the problem with players not being interested in going to lower clubs as opposed to no other clubs thinking they good enough.

[rossoneri6]

also what abt the case where to buy someone you need to offer 70-80% of it upfront and minimal amt in installments. In FM07 too i had it otherway. Palacio was available for 16 mil euro..and upfront i needed to give 4-5 mill...now he is avbl for 14 mill but 12 mill must be given upfront. IRL i think majority is always paid in installments. And if i have to pay 80% upfront..then i can as well pay the whole load upfront....20% in installments doesnt make sense

[T-Bag]

Just a little story from my game.

I'm quite a few seasons in now (2014 I think) and I noticed Kaka wasn't being played, he was 31, unhappy, wanted to leave the club and had started 2 matches in 6 months. He also had 6 sub appearances so he wasn't even making the bench most of the time.

His value was 6.5m so I made a perfectly reasonable bid of 12m. They come back and say they want 24m ! 24m for a 31 year old who they don't play, is unhappy and wants to leave and they want 3x his value ? I made a counter bid of 14m and they rejected it on the basis of him being an important first team player!

[Tigr]

2) AI enquiries

Speaking about that point I'd like to say the reverse situation - same player is being constantly offered to human manager several times a row, despite rejecting that offers every time. I've had it recently, when I was offered 5 times in about a week of the game time the same player. Adding to the lack of AI brains, I was playing in the league where a limit of zero non-eu players (and he was a Brazilian without second nationality yet) in squad is enforced.

Another thing which was introduced in FM08, IMHO, is a high asking price of players, transfer listed by request. In FM07 they was usually valued lower that their computed value, sometimes the asking price was the same (usually when he was very good player for the team). But in my FM08 game (created after patched), I've seen a young player (hot prospect) valued 1k pounds with asking price 65k pounds (and after I've added him on my shortlist his price went to 150k).

[kslee5]

i agree with the TS

but....lets put it this way

you guys can argue whatever you all want

but what can be guarantee is, SI wont do a thing to fix it

they wont fix it in a coming patch, and nor it will be fixed in fm08

so live with it

why did i say so?

coz this issue already been discuss since fm06....but till now? what had hapend....you guys see it with your eyes

[Phippsy]

I quite like it to be fair

[Mravac Kid]

Originally posted by bterz:

Excellent post

One more that's been bothering me for years:

You offer a contract to a youngster. He asks for $1000 wage plus $200K signing on fee. You offer him the $1000 he wants but you can now only offer him 50K signing on fee. He rejects you. In order to be able to give him 200K you must offer him $4000 in wages. It doesn't matter if you're Real Madrid and have billions in the bank. It's always the same. I was forced to offer higher wages than requested hundreds of times in order to be able to offer players the requested signing on fees. I just don't see the logic in making signing on fee amounts be relative to the wage you're offering and it's been like this since the CM days.

Hmm, I never noticed this as a problem... not if my club can afford the wages asked. And if I raise the wages, I can lower the sign-on fee. Of course, the bonuses are still a pain.

And I've noticed another weird thing regarding that... I'm trying to sign a player, and I accept all his requests, just raise the duration. He rejects (because of wage too low!), but is willing to negotiate. When I click the negotiate button, he asks for the same exact deal, and doesn't indicate what he'd like to sign a year longer.

Anyway, here's my take on #4:

The board have set an amount they're willing to pay for any single player's wage, and in regular conditions refuse to go above that (though it varies with the player's reputation). However, if the player is unwilling to move to your club, and the board think he'd be a good one to sign, they will offer more wages to him, hoping it will change his mind.

It's true it should be more flexible in comparison to the club's finances, though.

[The_Ultimate_Red_Devil]

Definitely needs some tweaking.

You can offer x amount of money for a player and the other team will ask for a much higher amount. You offer a compromise and they want an even higher amount?!

That's not really negotiating. Also when you search for unattached players, find one who was released recently and offer him a contract only to have him turn it down and retire 2 weeks later. At 19-ish.

I could understand if they'd been horribly injured during a match and were going to be out a year or two and needing a bunch of surgeries that they might think "wait a minute..." but when they had an ok career at another club and were let go?

[bterz]

Originally posted by Mravac Kid:

Hmm, I never noticed this as a problem... not if my club can afford the wages asked. And if I raise the wages, I can lower the sign-on fee. Of course, the bonuses are still a pain.

What's bothering me is the dependance of the signing on fee to the wages offered. Example:I want to offer $100 wage and $300K signing on fee because my wage structure needs to be kept down but I don't have problems with my balance. The game won't allow me to do that though. In order to be able to offer $300K sign on fee I would need to give the player $6K in wages. I find this part of the game illogical at least.

[cliff7197]

Re: Original Post.

Just wanted to say that apart from point 7, which I've never experienced myself, I agree with every single point you've made.

Some of these things (Like the transfer negotiation problem where the AI just keeps raising the price) have been going on for years now.

[Phippsy]

i like it

[bterz]

Originally posted by Phippsy:

i like it

What? The game? We all like it. Otherwise we wouldn't bother posting in here in order to try to make it even better. We'd be off playing some other game right now.

[101east]

Player called henri saivet...i offered him backup status and £8,000 a week plus 2k appearance fee + goal bonus the same...

Instead he accepts a contract offer of £55 and youngster status at a club in division 1 football in France over my offer to play in England for Arsenal?

lol?

[Vroomfondel]

Ched's observations are spot on - and just as was the case with the scouting module until the recent overhaul, these transfer issues have been stagnating for years and years.

If I had one thing to say to SI at this point, it would be: "The perfect is the enemy of the good. Your policy of not revising program modules until you can 'do it right' with a complete overhaul is hurting more than it is helping, at least when we talk about core modules like the transfer system. There are kluges that could fix some of these problems. They wouldn't be elegant or permanent, and they might even slow the game down a bit (Horror of Horrors!), but they would help your reputation a lot." But they won't be changing their style anytime soon. Ya get what ya get; buy it or don't buy it; we're gonna do what we're gonna do.

*shrugs*

[joestriker]

Great post

2 extra issues i've found out myself and they are equally annoying.

1) Towards the end of the season I search for players with contracts about to expire. I find some real gems that are interested. I offer them contracts and offer more money than they want to secure the player. And just before he agrees to the contract, he becomes a free agent and he is no longer interested in joining. Soon no one wants him anymore, I'm now a division higher than when i first approached him, and he is still not interested. Eventually he will fade away, die and a FRED is created... what a waste

2) After winning league e.g winning championship , bids on players result in the players not being interested in joining club. Once the transfer market is open and you are officially on the prem table the players are suddenly interested in playing for you but the fee is 10x more expensive. Surely a player will understand that you've won the league and will be playing in a higher league come next season.

I guess my points are similarly linked and i'm sure there are minor tweaked stories that are similar i.e I win league two, i bid for a player in league two that is staying but he doesn't want to join me even though i'll be a level higher. Instead he only agrees to join when the transfer market is open.

[joestriker]

also a bug i found, i made an offer for a player with a minimum release clause. I offered the minimum release amount and it was rejected!!!??!

and the monthly repayments thing needs to be revisited. If I make an offer for a player e.g 24 million to be paid over 24 months, I have to have 24 million in the account before the deal can go through. Whats the point of having a monthly payment scheme then.

If i don't have 24 million and i make an offer for the player with repayments over 24 months, thats 1 million a month. I know I can make 1 million a month from tv rights, match day tickets, merhandising etc during the coming months. Thats why there is an option for a monthly payment scheme, but this isn't implemented in the game

[The_Ultimate_Red_Devil]

Originally posted by joestriker:

Great post

2 extra issues i've found out myself and they are equally annoying.

1) Towards the end of the season I search for players with contracts about to expire. I find some real gems that are interested. I offer them contracts and offer more money than they want to secure the player. And just before he agrees to the contract, he becomes a free agent and he is no longer interested in joining. Soon no one wants him anymore, I'm now a division higher than when i first approached him, and he is still not interested. Eventually he will fade away, die and a FRED is created... what a waste

2) After winning league e.g winning championship , bids on players result in the players not being interested in joining club. Once the transfer market is open and you are officially on the prem table the players are suddenly interested in playing for you but the fee is 10x more expensive. Surely a player will understand that you've won the league and will be playing in a higher league come next season.

I guess my points are similarly linked and i'm sure there are minor tweaked stories that are similar i.e I win league two, i bid for a player in league two that is staying but he doesn't want to join me even though i'll be a level higher. Instead he only agrees to join when the transfer market is open.

Both definitely need to be looked at...

#2 should be easy to fix, when a team is guaranteed relegation/promotion whatever "value" is stored in RAM or temp files should be flipped to its new value (+1 promotion -1 relegation). If something happens like you go into administration and lose promotion because of it your value for "what league will they be in next season" can be instantly flipped back to what it was originally.

I'm probably not wording that as well as I could sorry.

[GigsonTZ]

and i also apsolutely dont understand pricing feature... I mean feature wher u put asking price for a player. eg: there are few teams intrested in signing one of my better players who is priced rg: 25 milions. and they keep sending enquieries and i set asking price 32 milions... and again they keep sending me enquiries... i apsolutley see no use for this feature. not even one

another thing that bothers me is negotiation...

there is none... in real life with negotiation you can sign player under its original value

(henry to barca case) and after what and who in rl life football determine value of the players... It is clubs and players agents not some central figure who will say Cronaldo will be walued at 40 mil and joe cole will be valued 30.. No it is the clubs who puts theyr prices

[Ched]

Originally posted by joestriker:

Great post

2 extra issues i've found out myself and they are equally annoying.

1) Towards the end of the season I search for players with contracts about to expire. I find some real gems that are interested. I offer them contracts and offer more money than they want to secure the player. And just before he agrees to the contract, he becomes a free agent and he is no longer interested in joining. Soon no one wants him anymore, I'm now a division higher than when i first approached him, and he is still not interested. Eventually he will fade away, die and a FRED is created... what a waste

2) After winning league e.g winning championship , bids on players result in the players not being interested in joining club. Once the transfer market is open and you are officially on the prem table the players are suddenly interested in playing for you but the fee is 10x more expensive. Surely a player will understand that you've won the league and will be playing in a higher league come next season.

I guess my points are similarly linked and i'm sure there are minor tweaked stories that are similar i.e I win league two, i bid for a player in league two that is staying but he doesn't want to join me even though i'll be a level higher. Instead he only agrees to join when the transfer market is open.

2 is another of the things that winds me up (which i forgot to add to the initial list), i think SI need to sort it so that the reputation increase associated with going up a div happens as soon as the player is guaranteed promotion, and that the players realise that they will be playing in a higher standard of league BEFORE the club is placed there on the league table.

Similarly it irritates me that i have to wait until the last week of june before the club set a new transfer limit. I know how much i'm going to get, but i can't spend it, and lose out on some bargains because the board are FORCED to wait until the end of june before they realise i will have more money the following season.

Still no SI response....

[cabello]

Any chance of an acknowledgement or a response SI?

[Canabary]

Originally posted by cabello:

Any chance of an acknowledgement or a response SI?

Maybe if this topic grows into a 5 page post or several annoying posts. But as of now, I doubt it.

Anyway back on topic. I agree with all of the first posters points. And I have found myself quite annoyed over another thing.

£35m transfers for unsettled players?! Excuse me but did anyone notice what Henry was sold for?

£17m, because he was unsettled, yet in game you can rarely get an unsettled player for less than his value, most of the time you have to pay twice or triple that value to get him...

I also find myself annoyed by the fact that a bunch of players on teams well bellow champions league level would demand 40m + for a player when a big club comes knocking.

Let's be honest here. If the likes of Barca, Real, ManUtd, Arsenal etc come knocking on your door to buy a talent and you are in the championship or bottom of the prem, you don't say "well sure, give us 40m for him and he's yours" that's just not realistic.

I know that this would favor the already rich and powerful, but that's how football works...

Also.... while I'm on it. The record transfer of a player is £46M and that for a player that had proved himself internationally and is rated one of the best players to ever live, arguably the best midfielder to ever live.

So it is quite unrealistic that Any club in the world would demand a whopping £70m for a player, Such as Ãguero (£70m + £20m over 12 months) and Gerrard (cost me £80m, that I got him at all is unrealistic to be honest)

Now that it seems Spanish papers have confirmed Ronaldinho's transfer to Chelsea, we'll see how much he goes for.

But 1 billion (as is the price in game) is something I very much doubt.

but yeah.. transfer system needs to be redone and you should be able to sign players for "the future" "the reserves" "the youth team".

[Pad-23]

The Transfers on Football manager have always infuriated me except for maybe on 2006 when transfer prices were reasonable. This year again it has become ridiculous like on 2007 where Chelsea completely ruined the game.

I think transfer fees are way to high on my game Portsmouth spent 27 million on Dean Ashton and 20 million on David Bentley in the January transfer window, in real life these players would be worth far less Ashton around 12 million and Bentley 8 million. I really struggle to strengthen my squad as well given a 14 million transfer budget in 3rd season and only managed to buy 3 players, one on a free where in real life you would be able to buy 4 maybe 5 reasonable premiership class players.

Wages have never been represented properly in the game either on any version, in real life players demand much more money e.g I signed Michael Johnson on the game for 5.5 million he only asked for 16000 a week in real life this would be closer to about 30000 a week.

Also going back to what people said about players retiring early at the ages of 23 but it is people born outside the E.U that annoy me, English players on frees will be snapped up by a club quick enough. But for example on my game this Australian wonder kid was produced with a PA in the 190's his club Sydney or something did not offer him a new contract so he was released and retired at the age of 20 what a waste of talent!!

[darrkespur]

Totally agree and this is a huge reason why I don't play FM anymore. The match engine this year is quite good but the problems with the transfer engine make me feel almost like an international manager - I can pay over the odds to put a player into my 'national pool' or squad, but removing a player is near impossible unless their contract runs out. It becomes simply choosing from your players rather than transferring out the players that don't suit you.

My favourite edition of the game for transfers was CM01/02, in which it was easy both to sell and buy. The AI in recent times has gone way downhill. There's no logic or memory involved. I remember playing a management game 10 years ago that had better negotiation than football manager (it wasn't amazing but it had two hands that got closer together until they met in the middle with a deal... actually that might have been theme park, but it worked!)

The AI seems to deal with other AI ok, in the main. Transfers occur and the world continues. But as soon as the AI meets the human, all that design seems to collapse. The AI will refuse to sell a high PA player not playing, and quote ridiculous sums for most players whilst your decent but unwanted players don't find clubs.

There are two key factors for me. One is that AI shouldn't be able to see the PA of players at all. Even if they can see some aspect of potential, as a player at another club it should be incredibly vague and hidden. Far more players should be bought based on performances and we should have therefore more busts just like in real life.

The second part is that AI clubs really need better shortlist creation and team management. They can select squads but they can't work out what type of player they can use? It can't be hard to write a little subroutine that analyses the AI squad, gives every player a rating at each position then works out where the team needs strengthening and where it has too many players? I'm terrible at programming but given a database of team information I could probably manage to write that kind of thing in a few months. For a team like FM's this should have been done when the engine was first built. If we can get the assistant to tell us what our best lineup is and where the weak links are, and we can get our scouts to search for players to fit that, why isn't the AI doing that too?

This is all symptomatic of one thing in FM - the AI managers seem to act very similarly no matter if they're alex ferguson or some semi-pro coach of Crawley. AI Transfer decisions should have far more relation both to their existing squad and to their league/reputation. Two relatively simple steps are missing in how an AI manager views a deal:

a) does buying this player complement my team, and once I've bought him will I need to sell anyone? if so, manager sells the worst player in that position, or the one he can do the best deal for.

b) does the player i'm selling/being offered money for benefit my team now or can I lose him? and if I sell him, can I get a decent replacement? If so, manager goes to buy a player in the same position.

This isn't rocket science and it follows a very simple computer logic tree code structure. When I play a football game, I want to buy and sell, crafting a team that suits my style. I want the AI managers around me to do the same. They might not have the same reputation or money as me but they should be trying to do their best based on that. Currently, I don't feel that way about football manager, and that's why it's not being played.

[Hawshiels]

This is a well constructed original post and with some of the additions of annoyances having been made to this list of frustrations, I would hope that SI would take notice and make it a high priority to fix.

How many new gamers are playing FM compared to the people like us that buy and play it every year?

I don't want to push this off topic by considering this question, but it would certainly help us to guess at which route SI are likely to take. If SI see their market as being new gamers, then they really need to pull out feature after feature to compete with the other rough and ready simulation games out there (all gimmicks and no substance). But if it is the loyal regular gamer, then they are really going to have to sort this out.

My son is 6 and loves the game but I find myself having to use FMM (sorry to admit this) to give him enough money, etc to buy the players he should really be able to sign anyway. This is hardly ideal. In fact, using FMM, you can overcome many of these issues but I shouldn't have to!

But back to topic, it would appear that there is no distinction between the really class players and the average ones. I can completely understand Milan placing a £100M value on Kaka or Barcelona placing £100M value of Messi, but the inflation on price for average players seems ridiculous. I really don't know what the purpose of the valuation of a player is any more, because:

- I don't think I've ever been able to buy a player for close to his valuation

and

- I don't think I've been able to sell my players for much (if anything) close to their valuation.

What is the point in this valuation?

I would be happy to buy next year's version of FM if all it did was fix the tactics (match engine), training and transfers. I realise it is a complicated game but a year to fix this should be more than enough. And if they need more testers between now and then ....... I'm free.

[burjennio]

Im not even concerned with the subtle stuff, I just want transfer prices realistic and fair, "20+million for average players is silly. Clubs offering £60+m for players is silly, make budgets reasonable, but make transfers affordable and we'll go far

eg. Fernando Torres went to Liverpool for around £20m in the summer, this is a huge club paying for one of the most coveted players around

FM08- Gerrard to Real Madrid £57m, No chance £30m, £35m tops

[cabello]

5 days into the thread, and still no response.

C'mon SI! This thread has not denegerated into a name calling bash against SI, but has been thoughtful and constructive.

Paul, Neil and the rest of the usual suspects, we want some feedback please.

[Ched]

Originally posted by darrkespur:

The second part is that AI clubs really need better shortlist creation and team management. They can select squads but they can't work out what type of player they can use? It can't be hard to write a little subroutine that analyses the AI squad, gives every player a rating at each position then works out where the team needs strengthening and where it has too many players? I'm terrible at programming but given a database of team information I could probably manage to write that kind of thing in a few months. For a team like FM's this should have been done when the engine was first built. If we can get the assistant to tell us what our best lineup is and where the weak links are, and we can get our scouts to search for players to fit that, why isn't the AI doing that too?

QUOTE]

excellent point, the amount of times i've seen a club sign too many players for one position is utterly rediculous; recent examples: chelsea signing maicon, alves and ryan taylor in THE SAME transfer window and keeping paulo and belleti, similarly i've seen teams with 3 world class gks, why can't they just make it so that the AI analyses the team in the same way the humans ass man does, it's not perfect but it's a starting point.

[Ched]

Originally posted by Ched:

Originally posted by darrkespur:

The second part is that AI clubs really need better shortlist creation and team management. They can select squads but they can't work out what type of player they can use? It can't be hard to write a little subroutine that analyses the AI squad, gives every player a rating at each position then works out where the team needs strengthening and where it has too many players? I'm terrible at programming but given a database of team information I could probably manage to write that kind of thing in a few months. For a team like FM's this should have been done when the engine was first built. If we can get the assistant to tell us what our best lineup is and where the weak links are, and we can get our scouts to search for players to fit that, why isn't the AI doing that too?

excellent point, the amount of times i've seen a club sign too many players for one position is utterly rediculous; recent examples: chelsea signing maicon, alves and ryan taylor in THE SAME transfer window and keeping paulo and belleti, similarly i've seen teams with 3 world class gks, why can't they just make it so that the AI analyses the team in the same way the humans ass man does, it's not perfect but it's a starting point.

goddammit why can't i edit/preview posts?

[Capocannionere]

Excellent points in many of the posts in this thread.

I just have to add one issue of the transfermarket that bothers me immensly. I've moaned about it before but not gotten any responses, perhaps it is only me but, nevertheless...

January transferwindow 2008. Sampdoria buys 4(!) spanish players, Torino 3 brits, while a complete exodus of italian players to other leagues takes place. Where is the realism in this? The game has no regard what so ever to language- or cultural barriers which might hinder players settling in their new clubs. I just find it extremely annoying having to face e.g. a Catania which starts with 8 spaniards or a Fulham with an all-italian backline. Am I the only one who finds this annoying?

Also, like pointed out by previous posters, AI clubs act as if completely braindead. Example:

Playing as Palermo, I noticed a Milan striker complaining about lack of first team football so I thought I'd start a campaign to lure him over. When looking at the Milan squad I realized they had 7(!) strikers in the first team, while playing a 4-3-2-1. None of these were tranferlisted. While enquiring about one of the strikers the player's agent informs me " Milan are on the lookout for a striker". gaah!

[cabello]

6 days into the thread, and still no response.