Critique of FM08 transfer mechanism - will it ever change?

[The_Ultimate_Red_Devil]

Originally posted by Pad-23:

The Transfers on Football manager have always infuriated me except for maybe on 2006 when transfer prices were reasonable. This year again it has become ridiculous like on 2007 where Chelsea completely ruined the game.

I think transfer fees are way to high on my game Portsmouth spent 27 million on Dean Ashton and 20 million on David Bentley in the January transfer window, in real life these players would be worth far less Ashton around 12 million and Bentley 8 million. I really struggle to strengthen my squad as well given a 14 million transfer budget in 3rd season and only managed to buy 3 players, one on a free where in real life you would be able to buy 4 maybe 5 reasonable premiership class players.

Wages have never been represented properly in the game either on any version, in real life players demand much more money e.g I signed Michael Johnson on the game for 5.5 million he only asked for 16000 a week in real life this would be closer to about 30000 a week.

Also going back to what people said about players retiring early at the ages of 23 but it is people born outside the E.U that annoy me, English players on frees will be snapped up by a club quick enough. But for example on my game this Australian wonder kid was produced with a PA in the 190's his club Sydney or something did not offer him a new contract so he was released and retired at the age of 20 what a waste of talent!!

I have to agree that FM 2006 seemed to have more realistic transfer fees. Also the AI managers seemed less likely to buy the same players when you started a new game and they seemed to realise where they needed strengthening and where the dead weight was.

A perfect example is:

Originally posted by Capocannionere:

Also, like pointed out by previous posters, AI clubs act as if completely braindead. Example:

Playing as Palermo, I noticed a Milan striker complaining about lack of first team football so I thought I'd start a campaign to lure him over. When looking at the Milan squad I realized they had 7(!) strikers in the first team, while playing a 4-3-2-1. None of these were tranferlisted. While enquiring about one of the strikers the player's agent informs me " Milan are on the lookout for a striker". gaah!

[kslee5]

Originally posted by cabello:

6 days into the thread, and still no response.

well....if you follow the forum for the pass 3 years, you can find that till now also no response from SI ever since fm2005

[cabello]

Originally posted by kslee5:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cabello:

6 days into the thread, and still no response.

well....if you follow the forum for the pass 3 years, you can find that till now also no response from SI ever since fm2005 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, but I am hoping that SI has become more conscientious in their old age!!!

Seriously though, these are valid concerns and as I've said before, the posts here are not SI bashing in any shape or form but more constructive. I am hoping someone from SI (Miles, Paul etc etc) will respond, so at least we can have an insight.

[Vroomfondel]

Playing FM this evening, I have been reminded of another major inadequacy (mentioned in other threads I believe but not here):

I want player X. I have money, but I'm not Chelsea. He has one year remaining on his contract, and is a backup. His team demand over double his valuation for him and won't budge, so I lay off and try to make do with my existing players. Two months later (October, so nobody can offer him free transfers for two months yet), poking around for alternative solutions, I see he has been transfer listed by request. Great! What are they asking for him? One-tenth (!) of his valuation. Sure, he's gonna leave on a Bosman... but a 95% devaluation over their demands from eight weeks earlier?

I was happy to be challenged by the market's unwillingness to cough up an ideal solution, as it can be hard to manufacture such a problem in FM. I had been researching into "Plan C" alternatives - sometimes you just have to make do. And then they dump my initial target for pennies? WTF? It's a big, big immersion breaker.

[LJ]

excellent post...

totally agree with you.

it's frustrating whenever you make a concession and increase the offer for a player, the AI will increase its valuation. AI never seems to make concession over a player's valuation... much like a 'take-it-or-leave-it' thing

[kslee5]

Originally posted by cabello:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kslee5:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cabello:

6 days into the thread, and still no response.

well....if you follow the forum for the pass 3 years, you can find that till now also no response from SI ever since fm2005 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, but I am hoping that SI has become more conscientious in their old age!!!

Seriously though, these are valid concerns and as I've said before, the posts here are not SI bashing in any shape or form but more constructive. I am hoping someone from SI (Miles, Paul etc etc) will respond, so at least we can have an insight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

they wont and no way

[Ched]

Originally posted by Capocannionere:

January transferwindow 2008. Sampdoria buys 4(!) spanish players, Torino 3 brits, while a complete exodus of italian players to other leagues takes place. Where is the realism in this? The game has no regard what so ever to language- or cultural barriers which might hinder players settling in their new clubs. I just find it extremely annoying having to face e.g. a Catania which starts with 8 spaniards or a Fulham with an all-italian backline. Am I the only one who finds this annoying?

Nope you're not the only one who finds this annoying. Seeing arsene wenger buy english players in FM is similarly irritating; but i've got to agree with the post, the amount of brits abroad is comical.

Similarly, if you set the game to "load all players from brazil" (which i personally like to do as they have some quality youth) then within 20 seasons EVERY national team (even from those with leagues running) has at least 3 nationalised brazilians in it...

[Ched]

Originally posted by kslee5:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cabello:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kslee5:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cabello:

6 days into the thread, and still no response.

well....if you follow the forum for the pass 3 years, you can find that till now also no response from SI ever since fm2005 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, but I am hoping that SI has become more conscientious in their old age!!!

Seriously though, these are valid concerns and as I've said before, the posts here are not SI bashing in any shape or form but more constructive. I am hoping someone from SI (Miles, Paul etc etc) will respond, so at least we can have an insight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

they wont and no way </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only response i can see this thread getting is the typical canned response for new features; along the lines of "we appreciate your grievances but we have a set plan as to what features to tackle and in what order, thank you for your comments etc"

[Tal_Hides]

There's one other issue or potential exploit that I've picked up on which I mentioned in a previous thread but got no response. AI teams can sometimes seem totally oblivious to a player's buyout clause.

I started a game as Atletico Madrid, and as other people have mentioned, I got the usual multiple enquiries from Arsenal about Maxi Rodriguez. At the time the player has a buyout clause of £16m so I was seriously worried about losing him. After rejecting or negotiating multiple bids and enquiries to way over the £16m Arsenal eventually made another enquiry. This time I opted for a different approach, I set the initial fee to the value of the buyout clause of £16m, but then added another £5m over the next few months, more money based on goals scored and a 40% sell-on clause.

I was baffled when I got the response that Arsenal had accepted my demands and were effectively spending around £30m on him if all clauses were met and he was sold on for a similar fee, despite the fact that I was forced to sell him if they simply offered £16m. Why would a club willingly pay over the odds for a player when they can actually force the transfer through at half the cost?

[Tal_Hides]

Ah, to be fair to SI I've just rechecked the bugs forum and they did reply a week later thanking me for reporting this issue, so perhaps this is one issue that will be dealt with.

[T-Bag]

That one isn't a bug.

The AI can't see the buyout clause unless the player is scouted properly (iirc anyway)

[T-Bag]

edit - oh you said si responded ? strange, im sure this has been confirmed in previous versions that they can't see the release clause.

[Guest Pilgrim UK]

Just a reply to bump this up and add to the growing petitiont hat this thread has become. The OP has outlined the main problems very succinctly, but I also agree with the secondary complaints that other posters have mentioned. As peopel say, "We've fixed the problems from last year" won' sell as well as "all new" features advertised on the box. Noevertheless, the transfer system should be one of the cornerstones of the game's quality, and at the moment it's severely lacking.

[Craig[EVE]]

Ched Great post. But you've missed out one of my favourates.

Bolton would like to offer you player X for £100k

Click make offer. Offer 100k. Submit.

Offer Refused or they try to negotiate it!

What's the point?!

[Ando THFC]

Ches - fantastic post. You've pretty much got down what a lot of people have thought but couldn't muster the energy to type out.

I've been saying for years that SI need to overhaul the negotiation as their number one priority. It's such a basic part of the game and they've ignored it for too long. It's never worked and yet they've updated other elements (like training and scouting) instead of fixing this.

The overarching problem is a complete lack of logic or similarity to the real world.

SI have spent years coming up with a variety of excuses to explain away in-game transfer howlers when they should just knuckle down and fix them.

As for those saying the game needs a raft of new features to sell; do you really think there are may people that decide to buy FM based on a few vague features on the back of the box. And getting basics right can be sold as "revolutionary new system of buying and selling system" as they've done when other modules have been given an update.

[Tal_Hides]

I'd like to see managers and clubs being given some sort of reputation in the transfer market. For instance, Peter Kenyon earned a reputation at Man Utd for paying higher prices and being slow to do deals, as a result they lost out on Ronaldinho and ended up paying £30m for Ferdinand even though Leeds were going bankrupt and were desperate for money, had Man Utd refused to go any higher Leeds would probably have been forced to accept. Because of Kenyon's reputation, clubs always demand that little bit more, this has carried on at Chelsea.

Similarly, some clubs have a reputation for bargain buys and always refusing to pay over the odds for any player (Bolton), whilst others will pay silly money because they have a specific transfer policy such as signing young English players (Spurs). If the game could somehow include reputations like this it would seriously revolutionise the whole transfer market and give a much more realistic approach. You'd know that teams or managers that have a tight reputation wont suddenly pay £80m for a squad player.

[George Graham]

Originally posted by kslee5:

i agree with the TS

but....lets put it this way

you guys can argue whatever you all want

but what can be guarantee is, SI wont do a thing to fix it

they wont fix it in a coming patch, and nor it will be fixed in fm08

so live with it

why did i say so?

coz this issue already been discuss since fm06....but till now? what had hapend....you guys see it with your eyes

Spot on- so howabout it SI, why has the transfer system remained "broken" since at least FM2006.

[George Graham]

And why did I forget to put a question mark?

[phil1702]

I hate it when you have quarter of a million to spend, go to tranfer list for midfielders, say, and filter out unreallistic targets. You are then left with players from Batley Womens Institute Youth Squad or similar teams.

[NeilUK]

I agree with the original post aswell, you seemed to be preparing yourself for a flaming. But I dont think that was ever a danger, you have made some very good points and more importantly in a constructive way. Its posts like "this is c***" and the like that get flamed and rightly so. Your post will be helpful and I am sure SI will appreciate feedback being given in this manner. Might have been better in the bugs section , but I am sure SI have seen it.

And I have to agree the constant enquiries for players every week is really annoying. It happens even when you have offered a player to everyone! Been a problem since FM2007

[Ched]

Originally posted by NeilUK:

I agree with the original post aswell, you seemed to be preparing yourself for a flaming. But I dont think that was ever a danger, you have made some very good points and more importantly in a constructive way. Its posts like "this is c***" and the like that get flamed and rightly so. Your post will be helpful and I am sure SI will appreciate feedback being given in this manner. Might have been better in the bugs section , but I am sure SI have seen it.

And I have to agree the constant enquiries for players every week is really annoying. It happens even when you have offered a player to everyone! Been a problem since FM2007

it depends who's online rather than post content as to what gets flamed half the time, hence my opening paragraph

that said it's nice to see people agreeing, let's hope SI agree....

[cabello]

I'm frankly quite surprised at the lack of a response from SI. I am sure that they are aware of this thread, and maybe they feel that ignoring it would be the best bet of letting it die.

Or perhaps the fact that there are no flame wars, threats, cursing and innuendos aimed at SI in this thread allows them to ignore it. It appears that those kind of threads almost always gets a form of response.

[Bonzo]

All of those flaw's mentioned bug me to the end of the earth.

Also youth contract players not signing contracts at bigger clubs for a higher wage. Then the same player accepting your now lower contract offer once they turn 17 and pro. So frustrating and unrealistic.

[Ched]

Originally posted by cabello:

I'm frankly quite surprised at the lack of a response from SI. I am sure that they are aware of this thread, and maybe they feel that ignoring it would be the best bet of letting it die.

Or perhaps the fact that there are no flame wars, threats, cursing and innuendos aimed at SI in this thread allows them to ignore it. It appears that those kind of threads almost always gets a form of response.

Starting to get that feeling myself

Why do they bother asking people for articulate well thought out criticisms when they just ignore them? They can't have not seen this thread, so either they've looked at the title and thought it was just another rant, or they've read the first post and decided to ignore it rather than admit that they may have overlooked one part of the game.

Maybe we need someone to come on here call them all thieving bastards and threaten to report them to trading standards? Threads like that never go without notice....

NB: not that i'm in anyway suggesting SI are thieves or that i will be reporting them to trading standards before some over-vigilant mod jumps down my throat.

[pyro69]

Well...i think SI deserve RED CARD for abusing there customers!

[cabello]

Originally posted by Ched:

Starting to get that feeling myself

Maybe we need someone to come on here call them all thieving bastards and threaten to report them to trading standards? Threads like that never go without notice....

NB: not that i'm in anyway suggesting SI are thieves or that i will be reporting them to trading standards before some over-vigilant mod jumps down my throat.

At least then you'll have proof they've read the thread.

[James_Lang]

Surley SI have to respond to this post soon.

Perhaps they are a little stuck on what to say other than the original post had some very very good points and that changes need to be made.

[T-Bag]

I doubt you will get a SI response tbh. I'm sure they are fully aware of the issues with the current transfer system.

Why they haven't been updated or revamped is a question I can't answer and I doubt they will answer on a public forum.

[Ched]

Originally posted by T-Bag:

I doubt you will get a SI response tbh. I'm sure they are fully aware of the issues with the current transfer system.

Why they haven't been updated or revamped is a question I can't answer and I doubt they will answer on a public forum.

It's a pity that they seemingly have no intent on letting their fan base know if/when these things may be improved and why they haven't already been fixed, all it does is leave us guessing and becoming increasingly irritated.

Oh and a new one for the list;

A new addition for FM08 i think, players delaying loan offers for weeks and weeks and....oh wait it's the end of the transfer window. Completely irritating, i scouted the player, my ever so reliable scout told me he would be EXTREMELEY happy to play for me, so i asked for him on loan, he was unhappy at his existing club so i thought it wouldn't be a problem... 3 weeks later, the transfer window closes with the player still debating....comical.

[cabello]

As a customer, being ignored and treated in a "like it or lump it" manner by the only shop in the hills for miles is particularly infuriating.

I am quite sure most of the people who posted in this thread are long term hard core FM players, who have supported the Collyers since the early days of CM. Most would have bought FM every year. Some, like me, actually have FM and WSM (to my eternal regret, but that's for another thread on another day.

Going slightly off topic, the bugs still prevalent in the latest patch (which was delayed as it had to be "tested" thoroughly- Spanish registrations, one on ones anyone?) makes me wonder which game the testers were playing, as these bugs were immediately pointed out by forum members upon the patch's release. Again, others have raised their "queries" in a more passionate manner in other threads, a lot more eloquently than I can here.

To then have these valid and constructive points about the transfer system not even acknowledged let alone addressed makes for some very unhappy customers, who in the future may reconsider "some other means" of procuring FM, other than from a store.

At least then, the outlay in acquiring the product will be the equivalent of the attention given to it.

[PETER CASSIDY]

As a customer, being ignored and treated in a "like it or lump it" manner by the only shop in the hills for miles is particularly infuriating.

I am quite sure most of the people who posted in this thread are long term hard core FM players, who have supported the Collyers since the early days of CM. Most would have bought FM every year. Some, like me, actually have FM and WSM (to my eternal regret, but that's for another thread on another day.

Going slightly off topic, the bugs still prevalent in the latest patch (which was delayed as it had to be "tested" thoroughly- Spanish registrations, one on ones anyone?) makes me wonder which game the testers were playing, as these bugs were immediately pointed out by forum members upon the patch's release. Again, others have raised their "queries" in a more passionate manner in other threads, a lot more eloquently than I can here.

To then have these valid and constructive points about the transfer system not even acknowledged let alone addressed makes for some very unhappy customers, who in the future may reconsider "some other means" of procuring FM, other than from a store.

At least then, the outlay in acquiring the product will be the equivalent of the attention given to it.

Reply

TRUE

[Mygel]

It is interesting that no reply is coming when it seems as every single poster has a on or more issue with the current situation.

For me I do not care about the size of the transfer fees or wages as the game should be able to create a potential future. The problem as I see it is still the whole system. The non-existing negotation system and lack of realism on how clubs and managers interact with each other in this aspect of the game.

[nattai]

I never have much problem selling players, probably because i always play with many leagues running.

My main issue with the current system is the influence of club reputation. I like playing in smaller leagues like the A-league or Swiss etc, and often the starting squads in these leagues are the strongest they will ever be. Playing lists of AI controlled teams will often just deteriate because they cannot sign the sort of calibre players they began with, and the players they begin with usually start wanting out pretty quickly.

Obviously this makes long term games pretty unappealling. The most annoying part of this though is how obvious it is so im surprised it hasnt been addressed in the past.

[Mad_Cat]

Originally posted by Canabary:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cabello:

Any chance of an acknowledgement or a response SI?

Maybe if this topic grows into a 5 page post or several annoying posts. But as of now, I doubt it.

Anyway back on topic. I agree with all of the first posters points. And I have found myself quite annoyed over another thing.

£35m transfers for unsettled players?! Excuse me but did anyone notice what Henry was sold for?

£17m, because he was unsettled, yet in game you can rarely get an unsettled player for less than his value, most of the time you have to pay twice or triple that value to get him...

I also find myself annoyed by the fact that a bunch of players on teams well bellow champions league level would demand 40m + for a player when a big club comes knocking.

Let's be honest here. If the likes of Barca, Real, ManUtd, Arsenal etc come knocking on your door to buy a talent and you are in the championship or bottom of the prem, you don't say "well sure, give us 40m for him and he's yours" that's just not realistic.

I know that this would favor the already rich and powerful, but that's how football works...

Also.... while I'm on it. The record transfer of a player is £46M and that for a player that had proved himself internationally and is rated one of the best players to ever live, arguably the best midfielder to ever live.

So it is quite unrealistic that Any club in the world would demand a whopping £70m for a player, Such as Ãguero (£70m + £20m over 12 months) and Gerrard (cost me £80m, that I got him at all is unrealistic to be honest)

Now that it seems Spanish papers have confirmed Ronaldinho's transfer to Chelsea, we'll see how much he goes for.

But 1 billion (as is the price in game) is something I very much doubt.

but yeah.. transfer system needs to be redone and you should be able to sign players for "the future" "the reserves" "the youth team". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally Agree and as I have stated in another post £140 million for Ibrahimovic is ridiculous but £220 million for Cristiano well that was enough to stop me playing the game and here is the screen shot I posted in an earlier thread. If thats not enough for you I suggest you try it you might not get the same figure but you will definately get there and abuot the same figure.

]

[SkidRo]

excellent post ched you have covered almost everything apart from something that t-bag said which was

"One thing which bothers me, and it has been like this for as far back as I can remember - probably even as far back as the CM3 series. You are chasing a player and the AI reject all your bids even if you are offering way over the value of the player. Then suddenly a few weeks later the AI bid the actual value of the player and it is accepted! Of course you can then bid the value of the player and get the bid accepted too. It just seems like the AI know when other AI managers are willing to sell players."

this is also another stupid thing but it can allow you to get a player for cheaper but its just stupid.

they seriously need to sort out the transfer system and cut down on teams being more willing to pay for players if its over a monthly period to be honet i dont think it really makes a difference whether its upfront or over a period you still lose that cut of your budget and at end of the day club will still lose all that money. i can understand for smaller clubs but for bigger clubs like barcelona that clearly have 100mil or so its just frustrating.

[Sky]

Please SI, take this post seriously. We'd all be happy to be guinea pigs for patch 8.02, it could be the perfect grounds for testing drastic changes before splashing them out on FM09.

[Mygel]

A small comment on at least looking into improving the system had been a nice gesture from SI.

[pyro69]

why are you bothering them now...

can't you see its weekend now????

OOPS

[Ched]

Originally posted by nattai:

I never have much problem selling players, probably because i always play with many leagues running.

My main issue with the current system is the influence of club reputation. I like playing in smaller leagues like the A-league or Swiss etc, and often the starting squads in these leagues are the strongest they will ever be. Playing lists of AI controlled teams will often just deteriate because they cannot sign the sort of calibre players they began with, and the players they begin with usually start wanting out pretty quickly.

Obviously this makes long term games pretty unappealling. The most annoying part of this though is how obvious it is so im surprised it hasnt been addressed in the past.

League rep does seem to have an inflated degree of importance in this version of FM, anyone who has tried to sign bojan, dos santos etc will notice that the main reason they give is "not sure moving to an english/italian club would be good for them"

Yet another thing that needs to be remedied, at the moment i'm having to tweak league reps in the database just to get some sensible player movement, e.g. kaka who is currently happy at AC IRL, will willingly move to chelsea in game, ronaldinho who is IRL currently tarting himself out across europe will never leave barca in game...it's just a bit silly

[cabello]

If anyone EVER says how responsive SI are to their fans, how they listen to their fans etc etc in other threads , please refer them to this thread where it's been ELEVEN (11) DAYS (and counting) and not a single peep from SI.

Perhaps that site sortitoutsi was started by people who were also ignored.

[skanky]

i think the sad state of SI's unwillingness to respond to things like this but this is our own doing tbh.

lets face it, SI know that we wont stop buying the game unless there is better out there.

and unfortunately because of that, they seem to have free reign to be as uncooperative/slack with comminucation as they like.

sure there are <STRIKE>people</STRIKE> fanboys will say "shut up fool, SI at least listen to us!!" ..well, this has been a problem for not just this version but for pretty much all the versions before that.

i wish there was a decent competitor to fm, it might not lure in all the gamers, but if it does enough to make SI sit up and pull its finger out, then thats a win in my book.

[jaycar]

Some very good points, great OP.

Anyone from SI looking into this?

[sten_super]

I know it's not very helpful, but I would imagine that someone (either from SI, or one of the moderators, who will have forwarded it to SI) will have seen this and take the comments on board. However, they are generally reluctant to commment in threads. Maybe I'm wrong though, they may comment. Just don't assume that the thread is being ignored if they don't.

[RedmanJB]

I'd like if SI came in and noted this thread.

[Ched]

Originally posted by sten_super:

I know it's not very helpful, but I would imagine that someone (either from SI, or one of the moderators, who will have forwarded it to SI) will have seen this and take the comments on board. However, they are generally reluctant to commment in threads. Maybe I'm wrong though, they may comment. Just don't assume that the thread is being ignored if they don't.

Not so sure about this, i'd be willing to bet that someone has read this, but SI (PaulC specifically) do comment fairly regularly, perhaps they just don't have a satisfactory answer for why this hasn't been fixed in years.

[Ter]

I've been reading this thread through and have passed on some suggestions. I know next to nothing about how the transfer stuff works in the game so it's not really my place to pass comment on it.

We know there are areas of the game that are far from perfect and we do have ideas to improve on all of these areas. There is a lot of underlying complex code and you would be quite amazed at the detail some of it goes into. I certainly was.

You could probably take any area of the game and analyse it and come up with a lot of ways to improve it. We certainly do that sort of thing at our end and it's good to see some of the people on here doing similar things (although you should just play and enjoy the game instead of trying to find faults )

[Ched]

Originally posted by Ter:

I've been reading this thread through and have passed on some suggestions. I know next to nothing about how the transfer stuff works in the game so it's not really my place to pass comment on it.

We know there are areas of the game that are far from perfect and we do have ideas to improve on all of these areas. There is a lot of underlying complex code and you would be quite amazed at the detail some of it goes into. I certainly was.

You could probably take any area of the game and analyse it and come up with a lot of ways to improve it. We certainly do that sort of thing at our end and it's good to see some of the people on here doing similar things (although you should just play and enjoy the game instead of trying to find faults )

Sorry if i wasn't clear, but i do just play the game, and i do enjoy it, i haven't tried to find fault, these things just come up repeatedly from playing the game. God knows what i'd find if i was actually trying to find problems with the game....

As to how complex the game is, i fully appreciate that it isn't simple, it's just that i feel there has been time wasted in less important areas (personal opinion, not claiming this to be a fact!) and feel that some of the faults have been around for ever

thanks for the reply tho

[BH_II]

Originally posted by Ter:

(although you should just play and enjoy the game instead of trying to find faults )

i would enjoy it if i could sell players I want to

[fonz]

The problem of being unable to sell excellent players, even if there vauled for £0 particulary irritates me and always has done. Perhaps though, since this has been a problem for so long (many of these issues I remember in CM3 and 99/00) it isn't possible to fix.

[matt garside]

Brilliant points, these are fundamental flaws in the game, which just don't get fixed. A new overhaul of the transfer system needs to be put in place.